New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Tyeforce]

Figured I might as well post my roster I made here using Oasis_S's Make Your Own SSB4 Roster icons.

Probably a bit too many characters, I know. But I think this is a pretty reasonable roster if there were to be 60 characters (or 64 if you count Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon).

Originally I had less characters than this (50/54), but I added an extra row so the characters lined up with their franchises better, lol.

 

[Decemberist]

Pac-Man is a stretch, seeming how he'll be in Street Fighter vs. Tekken (apparently).

Also, Slime but no Hero? Who the heck is Andy?

 

[Starphoenix]

Figured I might as well post my roster I made here using Oasis_S's Make Your Own SSB4 Roster icons.

Probably a bit too many characters, I know. But I think this is a pretty reasonable roster if there were to be 60 characters (or 64 if you count Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon).

Originally I had less characters than this (50/54), but I added an extra row so the characters lined up with their franchises better, lol.

Wow sixty characters is a lot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

..? Super Smash Bros.? In Japan?

It's on the box. It was only on the 64 box. It got mentioned in Melee's intro, but is absent in Brawl(which makes sense since it's not all Nintendo)

They don't HAVE to appear anywhere (though appearing in a video game would be nice). Sakurai (or whomever) makes the rules and he can change them at his leisure. I'm not saying he would even consider such a thing. I'm just putting that out there. The game's developers can make or break precedents whenever they want.

Um, no. Sakurai specified that all Third-Parties must originate from a video game and have had a Nintendo appearance. He could change those rules, but that's his current ones. You're speaking in hypotheticals, while, in the factual sense, those are the requirements.

Thus, no Master Chief. Hell, a smaller list of Final Fantasy characters are chooseable due to, once again, that obvious problem. We can only go off of what he currently said, not make up stuff to "win" a debate.

On the back of Melee's box it says:

"THE ALL-STAR BRAWL IS ON!

NINTENDO'S BIGGEST STARS ARE ALL HERE!"

it doesn't directly call it a "Nintendo All-Star" game, though. I agree it's pretty close. But I don't agree that it's exactly what the original game said. Just close and can be interpreted differently.

 

[Decemberist]

not make up stuff to "win" a debate.

I was with you until here. That's pretty rude. Feel free to disagree, but please do it without the attitude.

And I'm speaking in hypotheticals because at this point hypotheticals are approximately fifty percent of what we actually have (the other half being precedent).

 

[Shorts]

Waluigi and PMario, no Toad or Junior
No Mona, but Kamek
No Krystal, no Dixie, but Karate Joe and Ghirahim, and Prince Fluff

Just silly. Although that could just be me, because at this point, even my dream roster is reasonable. :l

 

[ChronoBound]

Figured I might as well post my roster I made here using Oasis_S's Make Your Own SSB4 Roster icons.

Probably a bit too many characters, I know. But I think this is a pretty reasonable roster if there were to be 60 characters (or 64 if you count Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon).

Originally I had less characters than this (50/54), but I added an extra row so the characters lined up with their franchises better, lol.

Roster is good, but 60 slots is way too much.

The only choices that bother me are Waluigi (use Toad or Bowser Jr. instead), Animal Crosser (use Palutena), and Prince Fluff (use Waddle Dee/Bandanna Dee instead).

 

[Tyeforce]

Pac-Man is a stretch, seeming how he'll be in Street Fighter vs. Tekken (apparently).

Also, Slime but no Hero? Who the heck is Andy?

Wouldn't the fact that Pac-Man is appearing in another fighting game increase his chances if anything? And I chose Pac-Man because he's a huge gaming icon and he has a fairly good history with Nintendo. Plus he's Miyamoto's favorite video game character, lol.

As for Slime, he's the mascot of the Dragon Quest franchise, and also very iconic. He may be even more iconic than Pac-Man to many people. I've seen some pretty creative fan made movesets for him, too, so I can definitely see the potential. If Square-Enix gets a character in SSB4, I don't think there's any character more deserving than Slime, especially considering how close the Dragon Quest franchise has become to Nintendo in recent years.

Waluigi and PMario, no Toad or Junior
No Mona, but Kamek
No Krystal, no Dixie, but Karate Joe and Ghirahim, and Prince Fluff

Just silly. Although that could just be me, because at this point, even my dream roster is reasonable. :l

How would Toad be a batter choice than Waluigi? Both of them would have to have movesets based around their appearances in Mario spin-off games, and with that in mind Waluigi seems to fit that role better, plus he's not as generic as Toad. And Toad is already represented as Peach's forward special move, why change it?

And by Junior I assume you mean Donkey Kong Jr., right? I don't see how he would be anywhere near as interesting as Paper Mario would be, and Paper Mario just has so much more potential.

I omitted Krystal and Dixie because I feel three characters is enough for both Donkey Kong and Star Fox, and K. Rool would make a better third Donkey Kong character. Karate Joe would be a great choice to represent Rhythm Heaven, which is becoming one of Nintendo's bigger franchises lately. Prince Fluff would be great I feel because Epic Yarn's transformations have so much potential in Smash Bros., and Ghirahim also has much potential as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was with you until here. That's pretty rude. Feel free to disagree, but please do it without the attitude.

And I'm speaking in hypotheticals because at this point hypotheticals are approximately fifty percent of what we actually have (the other half being precedent).

No, you're saying what he said isn't required. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Those characters just aren't plausible, and the Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories appearances are small and may not be enough.

This applies to a lot of other cameos. If they barely appear, it won't do much for Sakurai himself. I never said all the Third Parties aren't plausible. Just require that Nintendo(and video game) appearance first.

 

[Decemberist]

Maybe. But a character making a guest appearance in two completely unrelated franchises within a year of each other seems kind of weird, doesn't it?

No, you're saying what he said isn't required.

No, I said that he's free to change his mind because it's his right to do so.

 

[Starphoenix]

As for Slime, he's the mascot of the Dragon Quest franchise, and also very iconic. He may be even more iconic than Pac-Man to many people. I've seen some pretty creative fan made movesets for him, too, so I can definitely see the potential. If Square-Enix gets a character in SSB4, I don't think there's any character more deserving than Slime, especially considering how close the Dragon Quest franchise has become to Nintendo in recent years.

I do not know about here, but in Japan definitely. Guarantee you a Slime reveal would probably guarantee an extra million copies in Japan alone. I'm just glad I don't have to fight about how he could function as a fighter any more.

Japan loves their Dragon Quest.

[COLLAPSE="Too Big"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, I said that he's free to change his mind because it's his right to do so.

Once again, this is hypothetical and doesn't really make a good debate. I really don't understand the point of saying this other than we might as well have no debates using his respective criteria, or any at all.

In other words, we should use what he concretely said until he says otherwise.

Likewise, nobody said he couldn't change his mind about things.

 

[Decemberist]

Likewise, nobody said he couldn't change his mind about things.

Then why are you arguing with me?

I'm not trying to make any profound point here. I just made a statement. Hypothetical, yes, but not entirely out of the question. Unless you know for a fact what Sakurai is planning then you can't make an infallible claim one way or the other. Granted, one side of the "argument" is more plausible than the other. But at the same time the other side of the "argument" isn't even trying to make his claim definitive.

Again, just a statement.

 

[Tyeforce]

Roster is good, but 60 slots is way too much.

The only choices that bother me are Waluigi (use Toad or Bowser Jr. instead), Animal Crosser (use Palutena), and Prince Fluff (use Waddle Dee/Bandanna Dee instead).

I've already said why I believe Waluigi is a better choice than Toad, and I also feel he's a better choice than Bowser Jr. (who is just a smaller Bowser...unless you give him his paintbrush and have him be able to transform into Shadow Mario, which makes him both a Bowser clone and a Mario clone).

As for Palutena, I don't understand why so many people want to see her as a playable character. She's already represented through Pit. She has Pit do her fighting for her, while she aids him from the heavens. She's just not the type of character to interact directly with things. Even putting Medusa on the roster was iffy to me, but I believe she's by far the better choice.

Also, I believe Prince Fluff is a much better choice over Waddle Dee, for reasons similarly to the Waluigi/Toad argument.

And I know 60 characters may be a bit too much, like I said originally it was less. It's just for fun, anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then why are you arguing with me?

I'm not trying to make any profound point here. I just made a statement. Hypothetical, yes, but not entirely out of the question. Unless you know for a fact what Sakurai is planning then you can't make an infallible claim one way or the other. Granted, one side of the "argument" is more plausible than the other. But at the same time the other side of the "argument" isn't even trying to make his claim definitive.

Again, just a statement.

I really don't see how his actual claims are infallible, however. Until he changes them, they're literal facts.

Although we really should use his Criteria for character ideas, but only under the condition the person presenting them THINKS they're realistic ones.

If the person just thinks it would be fun, fine. But you also gotta remember we're diehard Smash(and some Nintendo) fans and don't even want to see 3rd Parties in the first place. I'm not against them, just those that haven't had a Nintendo appearance.(not just for Sakurai's criteria, but because Smash is still a Nintendo-based fighting game. Not an "All-Star" one, particular, but it's Nintendo-only) MegaMan has had Nintendo appearances, so he can still be called a Nintendo character. Even Geno can. But Master Chief? While there was a Halo Nintendo game planned, it never got off the ground, so he doesn't fit the bill.

 

[Shorts]

I'm bored, otherwise I wouldn't bother responding.

How would Toad be a batter choice than Waluigi? Both of them would have to have movesets based around their appearances in Mario spin-off games, and with that in mind Waluigi seems to fit that role better, plus he's not as generic as Toad. And Toad is already represented as Peach's forward special move, why change it?

Toad, immensely popular, and actually shows up in the main Mario games. Waluigi, literally, trash. The Peach B move stuff is silly.

And by Junior I assume you mean Donkey Kong Jr., right? I don't see how he would be anywhere near as interesting as Paper Mario would be, and Paper Mario just has so much more potential.

lol, no I meant Junior as in Bowser Junior. Paper Mario, is Mario, and will play similar to him, plus he's a "spin off" character. Why add him over Junior? Someone with a decent role in the Mario main franchise.

Plus, Sakurai isn't exaclt in love with the Mario franchise. Or Zelda, for that matter. But that's for another day.

I omitted Krystal and Dixie because I feel three characters is enough for both Donkey Kong and Star Fox, and K. Rool would make a better third Donkey Kong character. Karate Joe would be a great choice to represent Rhythm Heaven, which is becoming one of Nintendo's bigger franchises lately. Prince Fluff would be great I feel because Epic Yarn's transformations have so much potential in Smash Bros., and Ghirahim also has much potential as well.

Well, that's sort of a ridiculous stopping point for Donkey Kong at least. King of Nintendos 4th biggest franchise. And, if you're going to add losers like Fluff, might as well add popular losers like Krystal. Ghirahim as an addition, fine. That's not really an issue.

Karate Joe is interesting I guess, just... stupid...

The only problems I have with your logic is how you put random caps on franchise growth. Especially when they aren't fully represented properly yet.

Really, Waluigi bothers me the most. At least Fluff could be whippy and cool. Meh, I thought I would be meaner when I went into this. Looks like I just don't care..

 

[ChronoBound]

As for Palutena, I don't understand why so many people want to see her as a playable character. She's already represented through Pit. She has Pit do her fighting for her, while she aids him from the heavens. She's just not the type of character to interact directly with things. Even putting Medusa on the roster was iffy to me, but I believe she's by far the better choice.

Also, I believe Prince Fluff is a much better choice over Waddle Dee, for reasons similarly to the Waluigi/Toad argument..

Zelda was not a combat orientated character prior to Melee either. Either way, we will have to wait until the OVAs and Kid Icarus Uprising are released before we can say more about either Palutena or Medusa.

Also, I would say Waddle Dee/Bandanna Dee being the fourth playable character in Return to Dream Land was more notable than who will likely only be a one-shot character (I don't see Prince Fluff ever returning in the Kirby series unless an Epic Yarn 2 is some day made).

 

[Decemberist]

I really don't see how his actual claims are infallible, however. Until he changes them, they're literal facts.

Not his, ours.

Although we really should use his Criteria for character ideas, but only under the condition the person presenting them THINKS they're realistic ones.

If the person just thinks it would be fun, fine. But you also gotta remember we're diehard Smash(and some Nintendo) fans and don't even want to see 3rd Parties in the first place. I'm not against them, just those that haven't had a Nintendo appearance.(not just for Sakurai's criteria, but because Smash is still a Nintendo-based fighting game. Not an "All-Star" one, particular, but it's Nintendo-only) MegaMan has had Nintendo appearances, so he can still be called a Nintendo character. Even Geno can. But Master Chief? While there was a Halo Nintendo game planned, it never got off the ground, so he doesn't fit the bill.

Sure, fine, okay, whatever. I only want DQ characters anyway.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Palutena isn't exactly the princess of the Kid Icarus series...

She's more like the King of Hyrule

Edit: Chichi in Dragon Ball Z is my age, and everyone is treating her like an old woman...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not his, ours.

Then I never saw the point of your argument. Of course we have our own criteria, respectively. I don't want any one-offs, I want characters to be considered from the fighter type of Assist Trophies before others. I also would rather see villains before that last final sidekick, and so on.

Sure, fine, okay, whatever. I only want DQ characters anyway.

I prefer SMRPG and Final Fantasy myself. Not that I don't like Slime, but FF has a plethora of fully developed characters too. I'd like to see Terra for one choice.

I do honestly think Slime, if we get MegaMan and have a chance for one more 3rd Party, would be an excellent choice. Being that I love The Blob from Clayfighter, it's not that hard if Sakurai uses his imagination.

 

[ChronoBound]

Palutena isn't exactly the princess of the Kid Icarus series...

She's more like the King of Hyrule

No. Palutena is very comparable to Zelda. Heck, Kid Icarus is called Palutena's Mirror in Japan. Like Zelda, she is a very important supporting character that has been in every game for their respective series (though I think Zelda was absent in Link's Awakening).

 

[Decemberist]

DQ has a better case to make, what with showing up regularly on Nintendo's handhelds for like almost twenty years. Also the cartoony Toriyama animation the series has employed lately fits the Smash aesthetic better than the more realistic direction FF is going.

 

[Berserker.]

I'd like to see Terra for one choice.

Hell yeah
10chars

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

DQ has a better case to make, what with showing up regularly on Nintendo's handhelds for like almost twenty years. Also the cartoony Toriyama animation the series has employed lately fits the Smash aesthetic better than the more realistic direction FF is going.

After seeing Snake in Brawl, I'm not so sure designs play much of a role in choices.

And while that's true, I don't think that will win them over automatically. My biggest worry is that Sakurai won't think Slime has fighting potential(which is totally not true, but poor Toad...), and what other more direct heroes are choices? Erdrick?

Brofist, Berserker01?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No. Palutena is very comparable to Zelda. Heck, Kid Icarus is called Palutena's Mirror in Japan. Like Zelda, she is a very important supporting character that has been in every game for their respective series (though I think Zelda was absent in Link's Awakening).

She's more a mentor figure to pit than Zelda ever was to Link. She's the goddess, It's quite obvious Pit is a servant of hers, unlike Zelda who treats Link as an equal

 

[Decemberist]

True facts.

I was pushing for the Hero of Dragon Quest VIII personally (even though he's on the Playstation 2). But you could just as easily make a generic "Hero" and have his various color schemes allude to the different protagonists from DQV to DQIX.

 

[ChronoBound]

She's more a mentor figure to pit than Zelda ever was to Link. She's the goddess, It's quite obvious Pit is a servant of hers, unlike Zelda who treats Link as an equal

I think my comparison is going over your head. I am comparing Palutena to Zelda in series importance.

 

[Tyeforce]

I'm bored, otherwise I wouldn't bother responding.


Toad, immensely popular, and actually shows up in the main Mario games. Waluigi, literally, trash. The Peach B move stuff is silly.

More popular, sure. But for what he would represent (namely Mario spin-off games), Waluigi would be the better choice, at least in my opinion. And Waluigi isn't exactly unpopular, either.

lol, no I meant Junior as in Bowser Junior. Paper Mario, is Mario, and will play similar to him, plus he's a "spin off" character. Why add him over Junior? Someone with a decent role in the Mario main franchise.

Plus, Sakurai isn't exaclt in love with the Mario franchise. Or Zelda, for that matter. But that's for another day.

Oh...duh, lol. Anyway, Paper Mario would play completely different from Mario. Whereas Mario's moveset is inspired primarily by the platforming games, Paper Mario's moveset would be inspired by the RPG games. Plus he's paper, which makes him able to do things that normal Mario could never do. He has so much more potential than Bowser Jr., who would just be pretty similar to Bowser or Bowser/Mario.

Well, that's sort of a ridiculous stopping point for Donkey Kong at least. King of Nintendos 4th biggest franchise. And, if you're going to add losers like Fluff, might as well add popular losers like Krystal. Ghirahim as an addition, fine. That's not really an issue.

Karate Joe is interesting I guess, just... stupid...

The only problems I have with your logic is how you put random caps on franchise growth. Especially when they aren't fully represented properly yet.

Really, Waluigi bothers me the most. At least Fluff could be whippy and cool. Meh, I thought I would be meaner when I went into this. Looks like I just don't care..[/QUOTE]
The reason I didn't choose more than three reps for Donkey Kong is because Donkey Kong is kind of an extension of the Mario franchise already, so I don't want to overcrowd it. Besides, you have to draw the line somewhere. Realistically, I don't expect more than three characters from either of those franchises in SSB4. And since when is Fluff a loser? lol

Karate Joe may sound stupid, but then again I'm sure that's what people said about characters like Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers.

Zelda was not a combat orientated character prior to Melee either. Either way, we will have to wait until the OVAs and Kid Icarus Uprising are released before we can say more about either Palutena or Medusa.

Also, I would say Waddle Dee/Bandanna Dee being the fourth playable character in Return to Dream Land was more notable than who will likely only be a one-shot character (I don't see Prince Fluff ever returning in the Kirby series unless an Epic Yarn 2 is some day made).

Yes, but you can't really compare the two. Zelda at least did more than just sit there and watch from the heavens. But to be fair, you're right, the OVAs may change things up. For the time being, though, I don't think she's a good choice for a playable character, and she's better suited as Pit's Final Smash.

Fluff may be a one shot (or not, who knows, the end of Kirby's Epic Yarn hinted that they may meet again someday), but that didn't stop other one shot characters. I just think Waddle Dee is too generic and uninteresting for Smash Bros. Plus Dedede's moveset would have to be reworked if he were to become a playable character (which is definitely doable, but I think it's unnecessary).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

True facts.

I was pushing for the Hero of Dragon Quest VIII personally (even though he's on the Playstation 2). But you could just as easily make a generic "Hero" and have his various color schemes allude to the different protagonists from DQV to DQIX.

I'd personally use one of the main overall heroes with other color schemes. They did the exact same thing with Solid Snake, so why not Erdrick?

Also...

Zelda was never mean to Link.

Well, excussseeeee me, Princess!

 

[Decemberist]

Problem with Erdrick is the first three DQ games are pretty obscure to American audiences, whereas V through IX are really recent.

Not that DQ1+2 couldn't appear in the DS store thing sometime between now and Smash 4 release (if it isn't on there already).

Actually, scratch that. Fire Emblem pretty much makes that irrelevant, doesn't it?

 

[Starphoenix]

But Slime is cute, that is the only thing that matters to me.

 

[ChronoBound]

Fluff may be a one shot (or not, who knows, the end of Kirby's Epic Yarn hinted that they may meet again someday), but that didn't stop other one shot characters. I just think Waddle Dee is too generic and uninteresting for Smash Bros. Plus Dedede's moveset would have to be reworked if he were to become a playable character (which is definitely doable, but I think it's unnecessary).

Did you even play Return to Dream Land? The spear moveset he had in that game would easily transition to Smash Bros., heck he already has an obvious recovery move (the helicopter spear spin).

As to the OVAs, I am still curious when we are even going to get them. There has been no release date set for them, and we are now six weeks away from Uprising's release. I thought they would be an excellent way to build up hype for Uprising leading up to its release.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Problem with Erdrick is the first three DQ games are pretty obscure to American audiences, whereas V through IX are really recent.

Eh, he doesn't show care for recency. Also, he's the first hero, so if he's going to choose one, why not choose the original? He did the same with Marth, who's completely obscure to American audiences. Let's not forget about Ness, who was barely know in the West, Or Samus, where Metroid wasn't terribly popular in Japan. He's odd like that.

Not that DQ1+2 couldn't appear in the DS store thing sometime between now and Smash 4 release (if it isn't on there already).

I think you mean 3DS. I don't think they're there, but like I said, if he's going to choose a hero, it'll probably be the main hero if there's no other direct heroes.

 

[Decemberist]

True facts. Like I edited in, the whole Roy/Marth thing pretty much makes my point completely moot.

Anyway. Calling it: Erdrick in Smash 4. His neutral B special will be Slime Throw (charging it throws a Metal Slime!)

Too bad Erdrick has no reason to have 100% Tension!! as his Final Smash..

 

[Starphoenix]

Or, you know, go for the mascot who has three installments in his own series. In addition has actually crossed over with Mario three times. Just saying.

Time to pass out now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

True facts. Like I edited in, the whole Roy/Marth thing pretty much makes my point completely moot.

I replied too early. No worries. Actually, I'd say Earthbound did it first. It's extremely obscure even in America when we got Ness.

Anyway. Calling it: Erdrick in Smash 4. His neutral B special will be Slime Throw (charging it throws a Metal Slime!)

That'd be awesome. Unfortunately, I doubt we might even get a DQ character.

Too bad Erdrick has no reason to have 100% Tension!! as his Final Smash..

I just want Hurtmore.

 

[Decemberist]

More true facts. Sigh.

But you never know.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I really like DQ 9 because of the class system.

I wonder why they can't have a class changing system in a more character driven story.

Maybe it's because they feel the image they character is trying to portray changes if his combat role changes

 

[Berserker.]

Brofist, Berserker01?

Brofist

But for what he would represent (namely Mario spin-off games).

Har




Har




Har






















no

Sorry for the offensive sarcasm. I'm just tired of posts like these. Toad is so ****ing iconic to the point that he's practically everywhere when Mario is talked about. He practically is ONE of the representatives of Mario. Why the hell would he even represent the spin offs?

Oh god, a spin off rep will never happen. Scratch that, spin off character. It will always be the mainstream represen--- characters.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

As for Palutena, I don't understand why so many people want to see her as a playable character. She's already represented through Pit. She has Pit do her fighting for her, while she aids him from the heavens. She's just not the type of character to interact directly with things. Even putting Medusa on the roster was iffy to me, but I believe she's by far the better choice.

Some good points but...

WHAT'S WITH THE FREAKING STAFF

AND THE FREAKING SHIELD?!

These ones irk me to NO END. (Especially the shield. )

And if Medusa can be playable, then why not Palutena? Kinda unfair in a sense. I know Medusa's the villain, but I have some sort of view that before Pit was captured back in Kid Icarus's beginning, the whole thing was a war between Palutena and Medusa. I wanna see em duel sometime too.