New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Sunnysunny]

Luigi

Neutral B - Thunder ball

Someone..someone actually remembers luigis thunder powers?!
I LOVE YOU HAVE ALL MY MAN BABIES~! <3

 

[Propeller Toad]

But how many sources actually indicate that the Japanese do not want another Mario rep (aside from that one forum)? We never really got a true Mario rep in Brawl (unless you count Wario) even though there were some that deserved to be in it to some extent..

However, I do agree about the big Mario rep war that will be arriving in the future...

 

[Berserker.]

Gameplay:

Faster physics and pace
Melee air dodge adapted
Moon walking
Dash dancing
Remove tripping
Still no wave dashing lol
Balanced final smashes
No more error coding (Looks at Ganondorf)
Possibly promotes and emphasizes on both offense and defense

Everyone wants this anyway. Not much like Brawl's defensive nature or likes Melee's fast and offensive nature


Mario

Down B - Star spin
Heavier weight (His weight wasn't 100, it was 98)
Far travelling, more bouncy and fast fireballs
Hold Forward B to glide with a cape
Higher recovery
Faster dash speed
Faster aerial mobility

He sucks in Brawl. He needs more buffs. As for the cape, it can help him in his horizontal recovery PLUS it's iconic.

Luigi

Neutral B - Thunder ball
Down B - Poltergust
Heavier Weight (His weight should be 98)
Change final smash: Hyper Polergust blow or Luigi Finale (It can have negative aura or lightning elements)?

Umm... Basically, I just want Luigi not to be a semi clone but I'd be fine if he still was since it adds to the whole charm


Peach

Neutral B - Can be changed to Toadsworth or maybe remain to be a generic toad
Lighter weight (87 at most)

Umm.... I don't know. Lol


Bowser

Faster and stronger attacks
Faster dash speed
Drastically higher aerial mobility
Make him an offensive/rush down character

This guys SUCKS in brawl. His grab range isn't good plus he lacks a mix up game. I suggest to just give him an offensive/hard hitting playstyle in the next game so that he can be good for once.


Link

Higher recovery
Increase range of aerial spin attack
Better aerial mobility
Quicker attacks
Faster execution of projectiles
Longer range
Tad weaker knockback overall
Make his n-air have the same attributes as his melee n-air
Forward B : Sword beam (?)
Downward B : Weapon change(?)
Neutral B : Weapon use(?)

He sucks so he needs buffs.


Zelda

Din's Fire should be like the one in Project M
Quicker Farore's wind
Nayru's love is like how it is in Project : M
Quicker dash speed
Increase number of sweetspot frames in her d-air, f-air and b-air
Throws are like how it is in Project M

It was kind of unfair for her in brawl. She had a lot of cons BUT if we apply the changes that hapened to her in P:M, she will be a better fighter.


Shiek

Simply restore her melee self.

Self explanatory


Ganondorf

Revised sword based moveset

His moveset umm... Sucked. I mean... It didn't fit his style.... Plus, he was broken in a bad way in brawl.


Donkey Kong

Is actually fine as is.


Diddy Kong

Weaken the meteor smash property of the D-air


Yoshi

Better second jump
Higher up B recovery
Faster and stronger attacks
Higher priority in all attacks
Better grab release and grab options
Longer range

Yoshi lacked KO power in the previous smash bros. games


Samus

Faster charge shot
Charge shot is now rapid fire and it acts like how it acts in Metroid prime
Chargeable. It damages from 4 - 14%
Homing missiles travel extremely fast. Super missiles travel slowly though
Homing missiles have poor tracking
Morph ball bomb is chargeable (6-25%)
Sense move as the new dodge animation

She can be a run and gun style character who dodges a lot just like in Prime and Other M. It would benefit her.


Zero Suit Samus

No change


Kirby

Up-tilt is quicker and weaker
Up tilt has longer range
F-smash hitbox pops out at an earlier frame
Higher knockback but same damage
Quicker U-smash
Faster inhale
Aerial hammer works like how it works in melee

He wasn't THAT good in brawl. He's average but he still has some glaring flaws. It won't hurt buffing him anyway since I'll be leaving him with the whole recovery problem (Bad mobility + Not so good recovery despite the mid air jumps)


Meta Knight

N-air can kill at only 160% with no DI
D-smash can only kill at around 150% with no DI
Decrease knockback and killing power in MK's shuttle loop
Decrease the priority of mach tornado
Weight should be as light as Kirby (78)
Decrease the range of MK's attacks

****ing broken


King Dedede

Forward B - Dedede hammer spin
Down B - Waddle Dee throw

More iconic-ness


Fox

Fine as is


Falco

Fine as is


Wolf

Recovery is easier to control


Pikachu

Fine as is


Jigglypuff

Increase priority of attacks
Melee restoration

She was terriBAD in brawl. Meleepuff would GREATLY buff her but it will take a while to master Meleepuff. BALANCED.


Ice Climbers

Fine as is


Marth

Faster aerials
Faster ground attacks
In general, melee restoration

He's way cooler in Melee. Lol.


Ike

Actually, Fine. Maybe make his attacks faster


Game and Watch

Fine as is


Pit

Fine as is


ROB

Fine as is


Wario

Revamped Wario land moveset

Lots of people disliked his moveset soo.... I'm guessing he needs a revamp although, I'm fine with his moveset


Snake

Faster grenade execution
Decrease KO potential


Sonic

Homing attack is like how it is in Project M
Forward B - Slide/Tackle
Down B - Spin charge
Higher KO potential
Higher damage input and knockback

All of this can greatly contribute to Sonic's bait/punishment game

Reasoning is in blue

Someone..someone actually remembers luigis thunder powers?!
I LOVE YOU HAVE ALL MY MAN BABIES~! <3

But how many sources actually indicate that the Japanese do not want another Mario rep (aside from that one forum)? We never really got a true Mario rep in Brawl (unless you count Wario) even though there were some that deserved to be in it to some extent..

Um... 1 and that's a Japanese Smash forum. I think Wario is counted as a Mario character.

 

[Oasis_S]

Each rep would take in moves from Spin-Off games.

Whoa there...

 

[Propeller Toad]

Toad can also get a moveset based on his main game roles...

Let's not forget about Peach. She has moves from the spin-off games as well...

 

[Drclaw411]

But, it was never confirmed to being Waluigi in that Warioware game. It could be him, but there was no indications that it actually was him. Additionally, he never made an appearance or future cameo in this appearance if it was him.

Also I understand that Waluigi would make a good spin-off rep; however, I would still find it odd if he was lined up next to the Mario main four if he made it into SSB4. It seems more natural to have him fit in the Wario series (though problem is that he really can't do this) or in the Mario series once a few more guys like Toad and/or Jr. make it in...

As far as on the character select screen, if it went 4 down again i'd figure from top to bottom: Mario/Luigi/Peach/Bowser in one column, and in the next column: (Boswer Jr/Rosalina/Toad/???)/Waluigi/Wario. As far as which icon Waluigi would get, it could be done either way. (PS: I'd figure Yoshi to be top spot in the next column).

Well at this point we're still at a standstill for the Mario characters.

• The Japanese don't want another Mario rep.
• Each rep has at least some sort of hate base.
• Each rep would take in moves from Spin-Off games.
• Each has pros and cons that pretty much lower themselves to the same level.

Basically, as stated before, we're looking at an invitable Mario rep war that will be even bigger than Brawl's.

Agreed. Personally, i'd like to see Waluigi as a complete rep to the spin-off games and Rosalina, just because of how excellent the Galaxy games were. I do see the cases to be made for Bowser Jr and Toad. Am I the only one afraid we'll get only 1 more Mario rep and it'll be Petey Pirannah or that worm in the new Mario Kart?

 

[---]

Whoa there...

I know, I know, but I doubt Sakurai will be that creative, he tend to try and take inspiration from multiple games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Propeller Toad: I'm pretty sure he did. Also, many of the courses and mini-games reference him. Or those were fan made.

Either way, he was already in Brawl as an Assist Trophy, which means he could definitely become playable regardless of canon appearances. As I said, I'm pretty sure he did, and that's good enough for me.

 

[Berserker.]

@Propeller: Well... At least it's not as big as Pokemon's rep war

@Tryhy:

Whoa there...

Toad and his mushroom/spore abilities

AND Sakurai started this idea. Shigeru just approved of it.

 

[Oasis_S]

Let's not forget that Mario, Luigi, and Wario have all made names for themselves despite being derivative of each other. Waluigi, however, has yet to progress much past "Wario's doubles partner." PLUS it would just look bad to add another guy in overalls for the hell of it.

 

[---]

@Beserker: Can you explain a bit more, it sounds interesting, but it more or less sounds approval for Peach's Neutral Special.

 

[Propeller Toad]

Yes, Toad and his unique mushroom/spore abilities would work as well. We never had this kind of a character in a fighting game before! Mario Sports Mix even further deepened Toad's mushroom based moves! (this game also had Luigi's Green Missle move as well!)

 

[---]

@Propeller Toad: Technically Sports Mix is a Spin-Off game as well.



Anyway I could care less if we don't get another Mario rep, I'm neutral on whatever one we get. Heck I'd be fine with getting the Doc back. I'm just asking questions.

 

[Propeller Toad]

I am aware that MSM is a spin-off game; however, I was using it as an example that Nintendo awknowledges that Toad could emit spores as a move.

 

[Oasis_S]

Maybe four (slots) is the maximum amount of characters a series should be allowed since it's a four-player game.

@Dr. Claw: I'm saying Waluigi isn't notable or interesting enough to warrant a spot in Smash.

 

[Drclaw411]

Let's not forget that Mario, Luigi, and Wario have all made names for themselves despite being derivative of each other. Waluigi, however, has yet to progress much past "Wario's doubles partner." PLUS it would just look bad to add another guy in overalls for the hell of it.

The thing is, you just stated the point i'm trying to make. He is NOT a main series character and we certainly should have a regular series rep as well. But, like you said (Wario's doubles partner), he is a spin off series character. Those games are always a lot of fun and sell very well. His moveset should leave no doubt that he's repping the spin off games.

Again, not saying no toad/bowser jr/rosalina/king boo/???? because of Waluigi. I'm saying they're apples and oranges. Don't think of Waluigi as a main character, think of him as a Mario spin off character because that's what he is.

@Dr. Claw: I'm saying Waluigi isn't notable or interesting enough to warrant a spot in Smash.

I get what you're saying, but i'm asking...how are you thinking about him? A Mario character or a Mario spin off character. I'm saying he's a spin off character. He's notable in the spin off games (he's been in nearly all of them since his introduction). As far as interesting, I guess that's a matter of opinion, but I see what you mean. I'm not really trying to convince people that he should be in as much as I am trying to explain why I support him and that if he is included, he could actually be a pretty unique character repping the spin off games and taking nothing away from any other Mario reps.

 

[---]

I am aware that MSM is a spin-off game; however, I was using it as an example that Nintendo awknowledges that Toad could emit spores as a move.

Sorry, I thought you were trying to disprove the Spin-Off moves thing I said.


So if no one's trying to disprove anything, what are we talking about?

 

[Berserker.]

We're talking about Waluigi here

 

[Shorts]

I just want to slap a big "I don't give a ****, so long as it isn't someone Waluigi" sticker on the Mario series. Toad? Paper Mario(Non-clone)? Junior? Geno? SURE. COOL. I LIKE.. Minus Toad, but I don't REALLY care that much if he's added

Junior: Most important story wise
Toad: Most popular character left to add to SSB
PMario: Umm, he's Paper Mario? I pretty well known series.
Geno: Cult following, cool. Dah bess.
None: Fine by me

Seriously, any of these options are fine IDGAF. Really, I want to see Goroh make it in. IMO he has priority over even Riddlers.

It's not that they don't WANT. They just don't care

Konichiwa *****es.

 

[Berserker.]

• The Japanese don't want another Mario rep.

It's not that they don't WANT. They just don't care

 

[---]

It's not that they don't WANT. They just don't care

Wait, now I remember, I think you're right. My bad.

But either way this doesn't really change anything in the Mario rep war other than the chances of actually getting a 5th rep.

 

[Berserker.]

It all depends on Sakurai. If he's gonna keep looking at the Japanese fans then it's goodbye, fifth Mario rep BUT if he looks outside Japan, it's likely.

Hey Kuma, I posted my list of changes already

 

[Propeller Toad]

Toad seems to be increasing in significance as well. In SM3DL, Toads are practically everywhere and play a significant role as what is confirmed. Even THE Toad seems to be there as there is a red toad with a blue vest while multicolored Toads and red Toads with red vests are present as well. Toad was even placed alongside the other important characters (Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Boom Boom in NOA) in both the official Japanese and American website for the character biographies page.

 

[Drclaw411]

I just want to slap a big "I don't give a ****, so long as it isn't someone Waluigi" sticker on the Mario series. Toad? Paper Mario(Non-clone)? Junior? Geno? SURE. COOL. I LIKE.. Minus Toad, but I don't REALLY care that much if he's added

Junior: Most important story wise
Toad: Most popular character left to add to SSB
PMario: Umm, he's Paper Mario? I pretty well known series.
Geno: Cult following, cool. Dah bess.
None: Fine by me

Seriously, any of these options are fine IDGAF. Really, I want to see Goroh make it in. IMO he has priority over even Riddlers.



Konichiwa *****es.

Like i've been mentioning, I'm not saying Waluigi should take the spot of another Mario rep. I'm saying he could be added in addition as a rep of the spin off games, with moves according.

On a side note, I really don't feel anyone can take anyone else's slot. I don't think Sakurai says "Ok...let's do XX characters this time. Who should we choose?" I believe that the roster is assembled based on who Sakurai and his team feel would be a good inclusion and when they're done selecting their characters, that's how many characters are in the game. Obviously there could be cuts, but that is likely due to time constraints rather than sticking to a predetermined number.

 

[Berserker.]

Toad seems to be increasing in significance as well. In SM3DL, Toads are practically everywhere and play a significant role as what is confirmed. Even THE Toad seems to be there as there is a red toad with a blue vest while multicolored Toads and red Toads with red vests are present as well. Toad was even placed alongside the other important characters (Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Boom Boom in NOA) in both the official Japanese and American website.

Luigi's Mansion 2

 

[Shorts]

Toad seems to be increasing in significance as well. In SM3DL, Toads are practically everywhere and play a significant role as what is confirmed. Even THE Toad seems to be there as there is a red toad with a blue vest while multicolored Toads and red Toads with red vests are present as well. Toad was even placed alongside the other important characters (Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Boom Boom in NOA) in both the official Japanese and American website.

So what is it he's doing that's important again?...

@Waluigi, he shouldn't be added EVER. Period

It all depends on Sakurai. If he's gonna keep looking at the Japanese fans then it's goodbye, fifth Mario rep BUT if he looks outside Japan, it's likely.

Sakurai has always looked worldwide in terms of appeal. Just so everyone knows. He does do this.

 

[Propeller Toad]

@Berseker

That too! As well as all the spin-offs so far (Waluigi and Jr. are still not confirmed in MK7 -though they are still likely. Toad is confirmed as playable in all of them so far - MP9, MK7, Fortune Street etc).

 

[Oasis_S]

I get what you're saying, but i'm asking...how are you thinking about him? A Mario character or a Mario spin off character. I'm saying he's a spin off character. He's notable in the spin off games (he's been in nearly all of them since his introduction). As far as interesting, I guess that's a matter of opinion, but I see what you mean. I'm not really trying to convince people that he should be in as much as I am trying to explain why I support him and that if he is included, he could actually be a pretty unique character repping the spin off games and taking nothing away from any other Mario reps.

Main series or spin-off series - should that matter? He's still be a Mario character.


I think when it comes to Mario, it's a question of who's the least worst pick, and do you even want to pick. :I

 

[---]

Well, not to get anyone's hopes up, but Sakurai has stated that he does look towards the West for character ideas.


Based on this discussion all I can say is that we're in for a **** of a time come E3.

 

[Berserker.]

So what is it he's doing that's important again?...

Being a playable? Unless that isn't important enough....

Sakurai has always looked worldwide in terms of appeal. Just so everyone knows. He does do this.

If that's the case then what's with everyone making a big deal out of Japan?

 

[Shorts]

The Mario debate is just meaningless debate for me. I honestly don't even care what happens. I just like to talk

Personally, if anyone is getting in, it should be Toad or Junior. PM is sort of like, a weird choice IMO. Just like Doc was. Anything Spin-Off is a weird choice I think. (For the Mario series at least). Waluigi and Rosalina are jokes. Rosalina is probably dead now. By dead I mean, not showing up in the main titles now. Waluigi is the poop of Mario. Geno is too cool to be in Smash.

Being a playable? Unless that isn't important enough....

Not for Toad usually. Where is he playable now? Luigi's Mansion 2? Is he a sidekick or playable?

 

[Drclaw411]

@Waluigi, he shouldn't be added EVER. Period

Based on what?

Main series or spin-off series - should that matter? He's still be a Mario character.


I think when it comes to Mario, it's a question of who's the least worst pick, and do you even want to pick. :I

I think it does matter. I'm just saying, we have no idea how many characters there will be. There could be 45, 55, 65...we just don't know. Sakurai doesn't know. I just don't think we should worry about having too many characters or too little, we should just worry about having the best roster. And I think that regardless of final roster number, it isn't that farfetched that we'll get another rep + Waluigi OR just Waluigi, and furthermore, that wouldn't be the worst thing. To answer your question of why it matters: Waluigi would rep the Mario spin off and would present a brand new playstyle with moves based on the games he's in.

Well, not to get anyone's hopes up, but Sakurai has stated that he does look towards the West for character ideas.


Based on this discussion all I can say is that we're in for a **** of a time come E3.

Agreed.

 

[Berserker.]

The Mario debate is just meaningless debate for me. I honestly don't even care what happens. I just like to talk

Personally, if anyone is getting in, it should be Toad or Junior. PM is sort of like, a weird choice IMO. Just like Doc was. Anything Spin-Off is a weird choice I think. (For the Mario series at least). Waluigi and Rosalina are jokes. Rosalina is probably dead now. By dead I mean, not showing up in the main titles now. Waluigi is the poop of Mario. Geno is too cool to be in Smash.

......

<(Fine by me)

It's just like how meaningless the pokemon debate is to me anyway.

 

[---]

If that's the case then what's with everyone making a big deal out of Japan?

Same reasons as for any other character, they control a large of amount, if not majority, of the influence on character selection. Ex. Sakurai Polls

The Mario debate is just meaningless debate for me. I honestly don't even care what happens. I just like to talk

Same here.

 

[Berserker.]

Not for Toad usually. Where is he playable now? Luigi's Mansion 2? Is he a sidekick or playable?

Story wise, side kick

 

[Propeller Toad]

I was just curious...has development begun for SSB4? I remember hearing on another forum that SSb4's development had already begun in October, but then again there was that Kid Icarus delay event. Has anyone heard from this yet?

 

[Berserker.]

No it hasn't

 

[Shorts]

Story wise, side kick

I don't exactly count that as MAJOR. I mean, even NSMBWii they were playable over Peach and Wario because they were similar to Mario and Luigi in body shape. I MEAN, they're playable yes. But for a really, really unappealing reason.

"Want me to start designing Wario?"

"lol Naw, I got a better idea. . ."

Still, one of the most popular Nintendo characters.... a good enough reason to be chosen.

Toad was still among the highest requested characters to being playable in NSMB Wii alongside Peach and the Wario Bros...

From what I've read, that wasn't mentioned as the reason they were added.

Also Miyamoto has stated that Toad's role has increased during the e3, and there was a big deal about him helping Luigi face ghosts in some mirror room during the e3 round table previews of LM2. We'll have to wait and see how major his role is...

Miyamoto also advised Sakurai not to stray too far from the multiplayer aspect of SSBB....and look what we got in SSE?

 

[Propeller Toad]

Toad was still among the highest requested characters to being playable in NSMB Wii alongside Peach and the Wario Bros...

Also Miyamoto has stated that Toad's role has increased during the e3, and there was a big deal about him helping Luigi face ghosts in some mirror room during the e3 round table previews of LM2. We'll have to wait and see how major his role is...

From what I've read, that wasn't mentioned as the reason they were added.

Of course it would. Nintendo wouldn't just add some random character that nobody liked. Regardless if they were Toad or two Toads, people still liked Toad and was requested to being a part of the top 4. Body shape was probably an excuse. Do you really believe Miyamoto's logic with Wario's farting? Toads were the natural fit in a Super Mario game!

 

[Berserker.]

I don't exactly count that as MAJOR. I mean, even NSMBWii they were playable over Peach and Wario because they were similar to Mario and Luigi in body shape. I MEAN, they're playable yes. But for a really, really unappealing reason.

"Want me to start designing Wario?"

"lol Naw, I got a better idea. . ."

I won't bother you with your opinion

After all, you got nothing against all the Mario characters (Other than Waluigi).

@Shortie: WAIT. I'll find the source