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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Johnknight1

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I stopped when I read this.

You're this kind of "fan".
Each generation has at least has a few that feels forced. You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying the majority is forced; the majority is done pretty well.

Sure, Gen 1 had Jynx, which is racist beyond belief, but that's practically it.

Gen 2 and 3 had a few (the reggies, dunsparce, and wobbuffets), but for the most part it was pretty good.

But man, Gen 4 had a lot. A good portion of the new Pokémon were overdone.

Gen 5 didn't have as many forced Pokémon as generation 4 (lol at failing at typing 4! XD). sure, a couple may have felt forced, done before (BIRDS!!!), or totally overdone, there were a couple (specifically, the ones on the covers of Black and White).
 

xXIke-SamaXx

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Each generation has at least has a few that feels forced. You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying the majority is forced; the majority is done pretty well.

Sure, Gen 1 had Jynx, which is racist beyond belief, but that's practically it.

Gen 2 and 3 had a few (the reggies, dunsparce, and wobbuffets), but for the most part it was pretty good.

But man, Gen 4 had a lot. A good portion of the new Pokémon were overdone.

Gen 5 didn't have as many forced Pokémon as generation 5. sure, a couple may have felt forced, done before (BIRDS!!!), or totally overdone, there were a couple (specifically, the ones on the covers of Black and White).

It's just like you live in US and you see all the animals there and than go to australia and tell them that their animals look overdone.....
 

PsychoIncarnate

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It's just like you live in US and you see all the animals there and than go to australia and tell them that their animals look overdone.....
Pfft...They have a hopping dog with a sack and a beaver with a duck bill sewn on.

Big deal
 

Shorts

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Each generation has at least has a few that feels forced. You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying the majority is forced; the majority is done pretty well.
ALL generations have major screw ups/dumb Pokemon. I think everyone needs to realize though, that people think the first gen had the least because of nostolgia. I mean, Jynx, Kadabra, Alakazam, Magnaton, Votorb, ect. They were either "risky" or just dumb.

It annoys me when people put Red/Blue on a this pedestal. Yes, they did start the craze, but they certainly aren't the sole reason it's still this popular or why it has deep gameplay. The third generation was where we saw a real jump in terms of gameplay. Smash Bros has yet to recognize this. Which is unfortunate.

Where did you hear about Sigilyph being a demon?

Sigilyph appears to have been inspired by the Nazca lines and Kachina dolls. Like Sigilyph, the Nazca Lines are found in a desert. It also resembles a wind chime
Your idea is much cooler, but I've never heard it before.
 

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Gen 5 didn't have as many forced Pokémon as generation 5. sure, a couple may have felt forced, done before (BIRDS!!!),


I had to read your post a couple times to get it. Ya don't like the weird pokemon? O_o No hate, but i'm totally the opposite. I'm all for the interesting, weird and detailed ones. First gen felt to basic for me. Like grimer and voltorb turning into a bigger version of themselves ya know? Like, we went from the starters being just a representation of elements.

Now the starters are a representations of the old kingdoms of japan. (Samurais/Shogun, foot soldier of Romance of the three kingdoms, and empires respectively) Scraftys based off urban punks. Genesect is an anciet predator equipped with weapons. Sigilyph is based off of a demon that took the form of angels too fool children then abducted and ate them. LIKE HOW ****ED UP IS THAT?! I dunno

. I kinda like how they ran out of animals and started digging into the bag of ancient myths, obscurer animals, and modern day things. Thats just me though. I mean lucarios based of the Egyptian god of mummification Anubis. I like that stuff. :>
 

Johnknight1

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The legendaries are mostly what feels overdone, especially in Generation 4. Seriously, Regiggas or whatever his name is, is just a clone of Regirock, ice, and steel, which I forget exist because the more memorable legendaries from Generation 3 (Rayquaza, Groundon, Kyrouge, Jirachi, Deoxys) completely overshadow them.

I played the Generation 2 games the most, yet I remember the Generation 1 Pokémon as a whole much better. Why is that? It's because I feel that they consistently are more memorable, or have more unique characteristics that feel more natural, and are easier to remember. That's the great "charm" of them with me. I can remember Houdoom, Tyranitar, and all the Gen 2 starters because I like them, but there's a half dozen to a dozen duds I don't remember from Gen 2. Gen 4... I only remember like half of them.

Let's be honest though: we don't need another Pokémon Trainer. The current set is fine because they relied on each other. If we had Mewtwo, Lucario, and Genesect on the same team, it would be broken. Each of those is a legendary, and each alone could dominate. Each of the current Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon has different strengths and weaknesses (note this is what I think they should look like together).

Charizard is a somewhat common, yet powerful Pokémon. Charizard can fly, can take a lot of hits, can do a ton of damage, has great pursuit when it comes to chasing opponents off the stage, is excellent in close-range combat, has a good aerial game, and can KO at fairly low percentages. On the negative side, he's a big target, isn't very hard to grab because he's so large, is easy to outrun, he has the slowest flight speed, isn't mobile on the ground, and is extremely slow moving on the ground.

Ivysaur is a fairly common, yet unique Pokémon. Ivysaur has great long range attack, is excellent in long-range combat, has vines that can make for great attacks, can rack up some small effective combos, is a somewhat small target, can get out of dodge a little easier than most, and has about average speed. However, Ivysaur is easy to knock off the stage, easy to kill when knocked off the stage, has very limited recovery, and is easy to beat in most short-range combat situations.

Squirtle is an extremely common, yet quick Pokémon. Squirtle has many quick attacks, is an extremely small target, can be very elusive, can rack up damage can combo very well, can run very fast, has a few good mid-range attacks, can recover very well, and can jump very fast. On the flip side, Squirtle is easy combo to medium to higher percentages, can be KO'd at low percentages, takes a lot of knockback, can be hit off the stage easily, and is not that great against long-ranged attacks.
 

Sunnysunny

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Eh different people with different opinions~ I like em crazy, you like em simple. We find em charming in diffrent ways ya know? Charizards still my homie though. :>

I don't think them being a team of legendary would be an issue. A team of mewtwo, lucario, and genesect would be ridiculous canonically, but I mean....we have jigglypuff beating up ganondorf the king of evil ya know? =p

But it would be...a weiiiird team.
1st gen pokemon trainers has a theme of big powerhouse, middleman, and small and nimble.

If there is a new trainer there should be a diffrent theme. Like....Zoner/Rushdown/ and one with a strong mix up like with a good grab game or something.

Just off the top of my head...
 

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You don't have to explain why Pokemon Trainer Red is a good choice. I know why he is. But that shouldn't stop us from getting a new trainer. My Cynthia idea was just because she's pretty much the trainer that shows up in every generation. Pokemon Trainer Ethan, or Pokemon Trainer May harbor lots of fans as well. If you like Pokemon Trainer Red, play as him in Brawl.

Personally, I would rather see the Trainers change throughout the series. My reasoning is that Pokemon is too large to not stay flexible. There is too much ground to be covered, and ground that hasn't been covered, to simply add a new character once per installation.

So far, Sakurai has agreed with me. Mewtwo and Pichu turned into Lucario and Red. Who could turn into Mewtwo, Ethan and Victini. Or whatever combination. The game is too big to solidify any further than it already has with Jigglypuff and Pikachu.

If there is a new trainer there should be a diffrent theme. Like....Zoner/Rushdown/ and one with a strong mix up like with a good grab game or something
I dig it. Cynthia has Lucario, Garchomp, Spiritomb, and Milotic to work with. I think she could do that.
 

Sunnysunny

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zoroarkzoroarkzoroarkzoroarkzoroarkzoroark

...
brb making movset for zoroark. :3
And maybe one for lucario that doesn't make him look so sissyish. :l
 

Johnknight1

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I had to read your post a couple times to get it. Ya don't like the weird pokemon? O_o No hate, but i'm totally the opposite. I'm all for the interesting, weird and detailed ones. First gen felt to basic for me. Like grimer and voltorb turning into a bigger version of themselves ya know? Like, we went from the starters being just a representation of elements.

Now the starters are a representations of the old kingdoms of japan. (Samurais/Shogun, foot soldier of Romance of the three kingdoms, and empires respectively) Scraftys based off urban punks. Genesect is an anciet predator equipped with weapons. Sigilyph is based off of a demon that took the form of angels too fool children then abducted and ate them. LIKE HOW ****ED UP IS THAT?! I dunno

. I kinda like how they ran out of animals and started digging into the bag of ancient myths, obscurer animals, and modern day things. Thats just me though. I mean lucarios based of the Egyptian god of mummification Anubis. I like that stuff. :>
LOL at deep reading into my typo. (I meant Gen 5 is by and large much more original than Gen 4, lol!)

I also like the weirder detailed ones, I just hate the over-detailed ones that are overdone. I'm not a big fan of overdone things. I think, for example, Electabuzz's, Lickitung's, and to a lesser extent, Magnaton's evolutions were pretty ugly, but I loved Magmablast or whatever Magmar's evolution's name is. That thing is friggen awesome. I think the mythology-based (Lucario is a great example, and is awesome), some of the more original animal-based (I like the beaver one and some of the birds, lol! I love

I just think the Black and White cover Pokémon look somewhat generic (don't think only represent yin and yang? That's kinda a weak inspiration alone), and I think there are a few that are completely overdone. I like every Gen 1 Pokémon but Jynx, all but a half dozen to a dozen Pokémon from Gen 2 and 3 each, about 90% of Gen 5, and about 60-80% of Gen 4. I just think that, at least in Gen 4, there were way too many stinkers. Which to me, way to many is like 20.

ALL generations have major screw ups/dumb Pokemon. I think everyone needs to realize though, that people think the first gen had the least because of nostolgia. I mean, Jynx, Kadabra, Alakazam, Magnaton, Votorb, ect. They were either "risky" or just dumb.

It annoys me when people put Red/Blue on a this pedestal. Yes, they did start the craze, but they certainly aren't the sole reason it's still this popular or why it has deep gameplay. The third generation was where we saw a real jump in terms of gameplay. Smash Bros has yet to recognize this. Which is unfortunate.
Jynx is just a racial stereotype.

Alakazam, Magnaton, and Voltorb all have memorable details. Alakazam has that awesome moustache (I imagine he's based off something), Magnaton is three Magnamites (which is pretty sweet), and Voltorb is a friggen ball! :laugh:
 

Sunnysunny

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LOL at deep reading into my typo. (I meant Gen 5 is by and large much more original than Gen 4, lol!)
It was a typo....?

GOSHDAMNIT****MYLIFEANDEVERYTHINGISTANDFORINTHEFACEFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

but yea. I don't like the 5th gen legendarys either. Kinda ignored em. Not just what they represent, but also there digimon-ish designs. Especially reshiram.
Dat crotch hair.... ._.
 

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Jynx is just a racial stereotype.

Alakazam, Magnaton, and Voltorb all have memorable details. Alakazam has that awesome moustache (I imagine he's based off something), Magnaton is three Magnamites (which is pretty sweet), and Voltorb is a friggen ball! :laugh:
Alakazam's head is a freaking pentagram. A psychic occult Pokemon is not the smartest move.

Kadabra is based off a Jewish psychic who was known for bending spoons. Kadabra's japanese name is extremely close to the Japanese translation of the psychic. On top of that, the star on his is said to represent the star of david, and the lightning bolts are supposedly a Nazi symbol that was widely used. The Pokemon company got sued over it and can no longer make Kadabra cards.
 

BladeKnight420

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And another Pokemon debate begins yet again. lol

So it seems like a good time to bring this up again.

But how would people like Red to use Charizard, Mewtwo, and Deoxys like he does in the manga?
How would this be any better than just having Ash in the game, exactly? I know the Manga isn't anywhere near as bad as the Anime, but you're opening all sorts of floodgates if you do that, and the big N would probably add an anime representative before a manga representative.

Representing the 3rd generation and bringing back Mewtwo would be nice, but it feels really random for two legendary Pokemon to be owned by a generic Pokemon Trainer, much less when Charizard clashes horribly with the other two.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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It may have a storyline, but I wouldn't exactly call the comic book better
 

BladeKnight420

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It may have a storyline, but I wouldn't exactly call the comic book better
I haven't actually read the Manga, it's just what I hear everywhere I go. That, and if it's getting any positive reception at all, that means it almost has to be better than that terrible anime.
 

Shorts

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I haven't actually read the Manga, it's just what I hear everywhere I go. That, and if it's getting any positive reception at all, that means it almost has to be better than that terrible anime.
The anime is aimed towards children. You won't find Death Note scenarios in it. . . or will you? The reason it sucks is because it's not aimed to please you. It shouldn't even please a twelve year old. It's aimed at a young audience who doesn't care if Ash does THE EXACT same thing all the time.

Best anime I've watched so far: Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni. It's not for kids either.

The ice gym leader from Gold/ Silver was the leader of the reformed team rocket
How creepy. Pryce already was weird as is.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I haven't actually read the Manga, it's just what I hear everywhere I go. That, and if it's getting any positive reception at all, that means it almost has to be better than that terrible anime.
Let's just say, the anime is better at looking into pokemon canon.

The gym leaders are team rocket and the elite 4 are their own evil team...

...

The ice gym leader from Gold/ Silver was the leader of the reformed team rocket
 

Johnknight1

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Gen 4 legendaries are the worst. There's what? 14 of them? Only like 5 of them are even memorable, and 4 legendaries from that generation alone look alike, have similar characteristics, moves, and even types. I can understand the threes (I like the Gen 5 wind Gods, although I wish they were more original individually), but 4?

You don't have to explain why Pokemon Trainer Red is a good choice. I know why he is. But that shouldn't stop us from getting a new trainer. My Cynthia idea was just because she's pretty much the trainer that shows up in every generation. Pokemon Trainer Ethan, or Pokemon Trainer May harbor lots of fans as well. If you like Pokemon Trainer Red, play as him in Brawl.
Most everyone knows Red/Ash. May and Ethan and Brendon... not so much. Ash is an icon of Pokémon equal or near equal to that of Pikachu. May is just a background character to most everyone who would be interested in Smash Bros casually.

If most people are content with Red and want Red, why replace him with a less relevant copy?

Personally, I would rather see the Trainers change throughout the series. My reasoning is that Pokemon is too large to not stay flexible. There is too much ground to be covered, and ground that hasn't been covered, to simply add a new character once per installation.
Well this could simply turn into "Super Smash Bros. Pokémon" if it got too crazy.

Pikachu was added because Pikachu is probably one of the two or three most well-known gaming characters ever.

Jigglypuff was added as randomness, it's original body and fighting method, and because everyone knew of it.

Pichu was added because it was random, weak, and popular because it was related to Pikachu.

Mewtwo was added because he was seen as a God-like Pokémon and a symbol of power, and because it was popular.

The Pokémon Trainer/Red is probably as much an icon in Pokémon as Pikachu. Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Charizard (at least the latter 2) are very well-known, are popular, and work great together as a team.

Lucario was easily the most liked 4th Generation Pokémon and most popular, and had the fanbase and recognition to support it. I hadn't played the 4th Generation Pokémon games before I got into debating over characters in Brawl, and I already knew who he was because word of mouth of people about how cool he was, and how he was "the next Mewtwo" according to some (I think he's cool, but I wouldn't go that far).

With so many choices of Pokémon, the choice of the absolute most popular, relevant, and original easily make the best choices.

So far, Sakurai has agreed with me. Mewtwo and Pichu turned into Lucario and Red. Who could turn into Mewtwo, Ethan and Victini. Or whatever combination. The game is too big to solidify any further than it already has with Jigglypuff and Pikachu.
Cynthia shows up in 3 games. That's not nearly all of them. Lance has appeared in what? 4. Steven has appeared in 3 as well. Professor Oak has appeared in every game except Black and White. Plus unless use other evolution combinations of the Generation 1 starters again or use legendary Pokémon, there are no Pokémon anywhere near as popular or well-known as the 3 the current Pokémon Trainer has. If Sakurai used the former, it would be unoriginal. If he used the latter, it would be broken. If he used random Pokémon (by drawing them out of a hat probably), it wouldn't be that popular of an idea.

I dig it. Cynthia has Lucario, Garchomp, Spiritomb, and Milotic to work with. I think she could do that.
So one legendary, one popular Pokémon, and two randoms? That doesn't seem like it would work as good as a team as Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.
 

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Actually I just brought it up as it would be fun to see and would make some sense in my opinion.

We all know it probably won't happen but it is a viable option that would make many fans happy.

On another topic seeing as in Uprising Pit gains control of several different weapons, might we see them be used as new moves? While the Sacred Treasures are saved for Medusa and Palutena movesets?
 

Johnknight1

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Alakazam's head is a freaking pentagon. A psychic occult Pokemon is not the smartest move.

Kadabra is based off a Jewish psychic who was known for bending spoons. Kadabra's japanese name is extremely close to the Japanese translation of the psychic. On top of that, the star on his is said to represent the star of david, and the lightning bolts are supposedly a Nazi symbol that was widely used. The Pokemon company got sued over it and can no longer make Kadabra cards.
Okay now you're deep reading into what is on their heads. Most signs like such have probably been used by multiple people groups. The swastika is not just the sign of Nazi Germany, but a Hindu, Buddhist, and Jainism sign of good luck. It was a sign of Ohio-areaand Southeastern United States American Indian tribes as a symbol.

Kadabra is probably based off generic psychics. *looks up Bulbapedia and confirms this*

And yes I know about your posts about how Ash's story is a lie, and the person's in said links' psychology is fundamentally flawed at nearly every level (because let's be honest; if you're an anime character kid, and you have a dad, you're one weird effed up anime kid).
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Okay now you're deep reading into what is on their heads. Most signs like such have probably been used by multiple people groups. The swastika is not just the sign of Nazi Germany, but a Hindu, Buddhist, and Jainism sign of good luck. It was a sign of Ohio-areaand Southeastern United States American Indian tribes as a symbol.

Kadabra is probably based off generic psychics. *looks up Bulbapedia and confirms this*

And yes I know about your posts about how Ash's story is a lie, and the person's in said links' psychology is fundamentally flawed at nearly every level (because let's be honest; if you're an anime character kid, and you have a dad, you're one weird effed up anime kid).
It's pretty obvious what a pentagram means. It's pretty much universal
 

Shorts

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And yes I know about your posts about how Ash's story is a lie, and the person's in said links' psychology is fundamentally flawed at nearly every level (because let's be honest; if you're an anime character kid, and you have a dad, you're one weird effed up anime kid).
We just do not see eye to eye. On most things.

Bulbapedia talks about the whole psychic thing too. The lawsuit actually happened, it isn't some guys theory. It happened.

It's pretty obvious what a pentagram means. It's pretty much universal
Satanism isn't the only thing, but it;s what everyone recognized. Same goes for Nazi symbols.

Cynthia shows up in 3 games. That's not nearly all of them. Lance has appeared in what? 4.
Yeah, you aren't understanding what I was talking about.

She appears in Johto, Unova, and Sinnoh. She appears in seven games. In general, that's how I feel about our convos.
 

Johnknight1

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We just do not see eye to eye. On most things.
Yeah well I know a lot about psychology (for some reason, I'm good at it! Especially body language!), and that doesn't add up. Pokémon was based much off Mother 1 and 2, and both of those games are too much of a bright influence on life to really find any negative influence like that of the original Pokémon games. Plus the whole story of all the games that follow are the exact same. In other words, they would also have to be just as sick and twisted.

Bulbapedia talks about the whole psychic thing too. The lawsuit actually happened, it isn't some guys theory. It happened.
Yeah the lawsuit was interesting. I don't really know what to think about it, with a Pokémon possibly being based off a real person who isn't Bruce Lee. (or as I call him, Jackie Chan and Jet Li before Chuck Norris split him in half!) :laugh:

Satanism isn't the only thing, but it;s what everyone recognized. Same goes for Nazi symbols.
You know the show "Hey Arnold"=??? There's seriously a facebook group about how his grandfather's top of the head looks like a certain male anatomy. o.O

As a kid when I first saw the star, I knew of the Satanism star. However, I knew without thinking about it that it just represented a star and the whole magical ideas as a whole, not Satanism.

Nintendo doesn't have a history of this happening often. The only other symbolism history was that Nintendo accidentally had the Muslim star in one of the temples of Ocarina of Time. However, that and the Kadabra/Alakazam controversies are all that's against Nintendo. If there was more evidence than that, then I could see your point, but it seems more like a stretch than a possible truth.

Yeah, you aren't understanding what I was talking about.

She appears in Johto, Unova, and Sinnoh. She appears in seven games. In general, that's how I feel about our convos.
She appears in 3 regions, she's a Champion, and possibly the best one (Red aside). I get where you are coming from, and it's not a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't see it happening.

The Pokémon Trainer is Red. Red is Ash. Ash is as every much a symbol of Pokémon as Pikachu to most folks, especially outside of Japan.

The only characters near as well known as that are actual Pokémon (a select few like Mewtwo, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Meowth, Squirtle, and Lucario), and that is who everyone wants to play as. I guess you could argue Professor Oak, Brock, and Misty, but the former isn't a trainer, and latter two use Pokémon of the same type, thus wouldn't work well in smash.

If Cynthia had Ash-like popularity and used popular Pokémon (not sure if hers are popular, Lucario aside) and had different types of Pokémon (which she does), she would happen...

It also boils down to this: Do you think Sakurai knows who Cynthia is, or knows of Cynthia?

If no, that's definitely not a good thing for her chances... >.>
 

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zoroarkzoroarkzoroarkzoroarkzoroarkzoroark

...
brb making movset for zoroark. :3
And maybe one for lucario that doesn't make him look so sissyish. :l
I made a moveset for Zoroark and I think Mario and Sonic Guy did too, but feel free to make one If you want. Anyway I always miss the Pokemon debates:p

:phone:
 

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Ohhh? Ya gotta link too it dood? :D

Mine shall be super fantabulicious!
...
But I really should finish my Ryu one first. Hurrr I had so much fun doing cool things with the specials that the normals felt boring to me. Hes ryu. Ya can't mess with his normals to much. :V
 

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Hmm..I believe it's because of the number of characters it received and the style that it took from the previous two, aside from that no Megaman was included and Zero was in his place instead which looked weird to alot of Megaman fanboys, the different approach thing from MvC2 is what turned down alot of people, personally, I like the game though and with Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 coming out soon I am eager to play with Phoenix Wright! Hype!!! :cool:

:phone:
 

Starphoenix

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Oct 10, 2007
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8,993
Location
Cyberspace
NNID
GalaxyPhoenix
3DS FC
2122-6914-9465
Mother 2 a bright influence on life? What the heck are you smoking John? Have you PLAYED the game? It is a freaking acid trip dipped in speed. Not only is it non-sensical. It is pretty dark too. Case and point, Giygas...
 

Opelucid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
1,277
Location
New Jersey
NNID
JDan17
Switch FC
SW 5860 1420 7528
Mother 2 a bright influence on life? What the heck are you smoking John? Have you PLAYED the game? It is a freaking acid trip dipped in speed. Not only is it non-sensical. It is pretty dark too. Case and point, Giygas...
Wait who's John?
 

Metal Overlord

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
6,794
Location
Nawf Side
LOL at deep reading into my typo. (I meant Gen 5 is by and large much more original than Gen 4, lol!)
Yeah, Gen 5 is miles better than Gen 4 ever was. Except for Stunfisk and some of the legendary Pokemon (mainly Thundurus and Landorus)...

There are way too many legendaries in Gen 5, though. They should have just stopped at Genesect, Victini, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem.

@Opelucid- By John, they mean Johnknight1.

:phone:
 

Metal Overlord

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
6,794
Location
Nawf Side
I would kill to have to City Escape in this game now. I love SA2 so much...

Young Horsetail and Ike Sama, one of y'all should post something so I don't feel stalked as much lol.

Also, Realgam Tower from Pokemon Colosseum would be boss.
 
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