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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Big-Cat

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The 'please be patient' quip isn't news, although it seems GameFAQs is treating it as such. It was tossed around pre-E3 by those who believed we would not get a trailer as supporting evidence.

:phone:
To some people, any news is good news.

I had a strange dream last night. Part of it consisted of Peach getting a Dojo update for Smash 4. They said they had not upgraded the graphics yet and were busy with the mechanics first so the screenshots looked like they were from Brawl. Anyway, this update was titled Peach: Overview. I don't remember anything from it, but I assume it was an update describing her playstyle.
 

Deucalion

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Even in terms of Super Smash Bros I'd say that new does not always mean better. Sakurai has never been one to add a bunch of new series in each game. We can infer from comments he has made that, beyond Pikmin and Animal Crossing, he does not even consider any of the other series as being on the same level as the two former. Adding a bunch of new series for the heck of it is not the right or logical route to take.
I think some of the reason the titles listed are ignored is because they're not Nintendo-proper. Golden Sun is made by Camelot, Sin & Punishment by Treasure, Custom Robo by NOISe, and Starfy by TOSE. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every single character in Brawl originates from a studio which is part of Nintendo's first party studios or subsidiaries. Diddy Kong was formerly via Rare, but Nintendo first party studios have definitely worked with Diddy since.

If Sakurai is willing to look beyond the core Nintendo development studios and subsidiaries, then I think he will add a these characters. I'm assuming, for the time being, that he will. Not on any great basis, but simply because there's no huge evidence against. If, however, Sakurai is determined not to stray from Nintendo proper, then I agree with you: none of those characters will or should make it. I guess time will tell.

The positive thing is it isn't about series, but characters. The bad news is even when comparing characters there are plenty of other Nintendo characters that easily outweigh the "AT Crew" outside of a select few.
I would disagree on this. I find it series first, followed by character. If character was more important, there's no way that say, Falco, would be in Melee. Falco is not as important as Ridley, and I doubt there's much room for argument there. Falco is not as important as King Dedede - again, I doubt much room for argument. I find that series comes first, and then character within series. Thus, Star Fox is important enough to merit a second character, and within Star Fox, Falco is the second most important character (or was at the time of Melee, anyway).
 

JPW

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what i find amazing is Falcon and Samus are two characters who have been in smash since the beginning yet we only still still have one character representing the franchise.

Fire Emblem in its first outing actually got two entries and kept that in brawl ditching Roy for Ike. In Brawl Earthbound got another addition Starfox got another addition, same with Kirby getting 2 more. Yet nothing was new for Metroid or F-zero. I'm not going to debate Mario, Zelda or Pokemon significance as these are the 3 biggest franchises on Nintendo. And will always be producing characters to join the roster.
 

Holder of the Heel

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The 'please be patient' quip isn't news, although it seems GameFAQs is treating it as such. It was tossed around pre-E3 by those who believed we would not get a trailer as supporting evidence.
Hey, we could possibly assume that he has officially decided the bulk of the characters, if that really is what is decided first. If it isn't characters, then that also makes me optimistic, because if it means a lot of the details and how it is going to work with the Wii U and 3DS, and that would likely make the following progress, well, progress faster.

Just trying to make it into more than it probably is. XD

New=Better?

Not sure I agree with that.
I see what he is saying, and we've all really talked about how franchises are already well represented, and at this point we are merely adding minor characters just for the sake of adding them, thus we are lowering our standards for characters, for again, the sake of simply getting more.

Getting new franchises would be the way to solve that. Not that I think we shouldn't add some to our current franchises.
 

Big-Cat

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The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to focus on the mechanics and other details first before adding the characters.

EDIT: With my new avatar, I wonder if I should change my name to XiongOso. Although, that'll create way too much confusion with people who meet me personally.
 

JPW

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Coming to think of it looking at other kinds of fighting games when it comes to adding new characters it's usually just some new guest characters rather than anything else could this be the case for Smash Bros?
 

Big-Cat

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Coming to think of it looking at other kinds of fighting games when it comes to adding new characters it's usually just some new guest characters rather than anything else could this be the case for Smash Bros?
What games are you talking about? No game in the last five years at least has only added guest characters.

@Falchion
I was referring to my handle in general, especially outside of Smash boards. You can, though, change your name here with a premium account.
 

Big-Cat

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Streetfighter games, Tekken Games and Mortal Kombat Games.
Street Fighter has never had guest characters outside of arguably the EX characters and Karin to some extent. Tekken games have yet to have a guest character, but there is a Snoop Dog stage in the upcoming console TTT2 release. MK didn't add anyone since it was a reboot and Kratos was just added on and is only on the PS3 release.
 

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if Sakurai was judging it by series then how the hell did someone like R.O.B. make it or Ice Climbers.... or even Pit. Most of these characters would of had no chance of joining the roster if it was based on series. As most most of these series died out 20 years ago.

Remember also Pit got a massive reincarnation Before Brawl this is what Pit looked like:


When they remade Pit. He looked a thousand times better and amazingly this actually reopened the fanbase.
Because popularity (or lack there of) is not Sakurai's sole basis for evaluating and including characters. He also looks at what they bring to Super Smash Bros that is unique and makes people want to play as them. I'd say he's done a good job.

I think some of the reason the titles listed are ignored is because they're not Nintendo-proper. Golden Sun is made by Camelot, Sin & Punishment by Treasure, Custom Robo by NOISe, and Starfy by TOSE. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every single character in Brawl originates from a studio which is part of Nintendo's first party studios. HAL Laboratory is sort of an exception insofar as it is technically a second party, but in reality it is a subsidiary of Nintendo. Diddy Kong was formerly via Rare, but Nintendo first party studios have definitely worked with Diddy since.
Correct, but the thing is the series were not ignored if you look beyond characters. Remember characters are only a small fraction of what constitutes "representation".

If Sakurai is willing to look beyond the core Nintendo development studios and subsidiaries, then I think he will add these characters. I'm assuming, for the time being, that he will. Not on any great basis, but simply because there's no huge evidence against. If, however, Sakurai is determined not to stray from Nintendo proper, then I agree with you: none of those characters will or should make it. I guess time will tell.
Considering Punch Out, Murasame Castle, and Mii will likely be included, it does not leave a lot of room for other series. I'd even go so far as to throw Xenoblade into that group, but I'm not going to deal with that discussion right now.

I would disagree on this. I find it series first, followed by character. If character was more important, there's no way that say, Falco, would be in Melee. Falco is not as important as Ridley, and I doubt there's much room for argument there. Falco is not as important as King Dedede - again, I doubt much room for argument. I find that series comes first, and then character within series. Thus, Star Fox is important enough to merit a second character, and within Star Fox, Falco is the second most important character (or was at the time of Melee, anyway).
It isn't about series. You are coming at the situation as though there are only two possible scenarios, completely forgetting about all of the other variables that factor into Sakurai's selections. In fact, the only time Sakurai has even come close to discussing series representation was in reference to Mario and Pokémon because they have so many characters to select from.

As for Falco, I will give you King DDD, but not Ridley. Reason being that Ridley is more of a Western obsession and has never really had the same following people seem to attribute to him in Japan. Not to say there aren't those in Japan who want him, but at the time when there were more characters to choose from, he didn't excel. In fact, according to the official Melee poll results, Metroid had six votes where as Ridley did not even make the list. Much hasn't really changed; the Metroid series has historically never really been as big of a deal in Japan as elsewhere in the world.

Long story short, it is easy to understand how Falco got in over Ridley when he (Falco) has seven votes to top all characters for the Star Fox series, while Ridley likely had one or no votes.

EDIT: [COLLAPSE="Melee poll results"]
Mario Bros.
1. Bowser (169) - #1 most wanted Mario character for Melee and got in Melee
2. Peach (66) - #2 most-wanted Mario character for Melee and got in Melee
3. Wario (65) - #3 most-wanted Mario character for Melee and got in Brawl
4. Toad (27) - #4 most-wanted Mario character for Melee; could he get in Brawl?
5. Koopa Troopa (9)
6. Kamek (8)
7. Goomba (7)
8. Mallow (5)
9. Geno (5)
10. Baby Mario (3)

Pokemon
1. Mewtwo (35) - #1 most-wanted logical (#1 most-wanted general) Pokemon character for Melee and got in Melee
2. Mew (24) - #2 most-wanted general Pokemon character for Melee and got in Melee in a Pokeball
3. Red (18) - #2 most-wanted logical (#3 most-wanted general) Pokemon character for Melee and got in Brawl
4. Misc. Pokemon (12)
5. Lugia (11) - #4 most-wanted general Pokemon character for Melee and got in Melee in a Pokeball
6. Meowth (8) - #3 most-wanted logical (#5 most-wanted general) Pokemon character for Melee; could he get in Brawl?
7. Raichu (7)
8. Marill (5) - #7 most-wanted general Pokemon for Melee and got in Melee in a Pokeball
9. Bulbasaur (5) - #7 most-wanted general Pokemon for Melee and its' evolution got in Brawl as a playable character as part of Pokemon Trainer
10. Togepi (5) - #7 most-wanted general Pokemon character for Melee and got in Melee in a Pokeball

Legend of Zelda
1. Ganondorf (36) - #1 most-wanted Zelda character for Melee and got in Melee
2. Young Link (8) - #2 most-wanted Zelda character for Melee and got in Melee
3. Zelda (8) - #2 most-wanted Zelda character for Melee and got in Melee
4. Sheik (8) - #2 most-wanted Zelda character for Melee and got in Melee
5. Shadow Link (2) - #3 most-wanted Zelda character for Melee and got in Melee as an unplayable character

Kirby Superstar
1. King Dedede (46) - #1 most-wanted logical Kirby character for Melee; could he get in Brawl?
2. Gooey (17)
3. Metaknight (11) - #2 most-wanted logical Kirby character for Melee and got in Brawl
4. Misc. Kirby Companion (10)
5. Waddle Dee (3)

Mother
1. Mr.Saturn (18) - #1 most-wanted Mother character for Melee and got in Melee as an item
2. Poo (6)
3. Other Good Guys from Mother 2 (Earthbound) (4)
4. Paula (4)
5. Starman (3)
6. Jeff (3)

Star Fox
1. Falco (7) - #1 most-wanted Star Fox character for Melee and got in Melee
2. Slippy (5)
3. Wolf (4)
4. Peppy (2)

Fire Emblem
1. Marth (21) - #1 most-wanted Fire Emblem character for Melee and got in Melee
2. Misc. Character from Fire Emblem (18)
3. Ogma (8)
4. Serris (4)
5. Sigurd (2)
6. Leaf (2)

Rare
1. 007 James Bond (35)
2. Banjo & Kazooie (18)
3. Diddy Kong (15) - #3 most-wanted Rare character (#1 most-wanted Donkey Kong character) for Melee; could he be in Brawl?
4. Blast Corps Robot (2)
5. 006 (2)

Other NES/SNES Characters
1. Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight) (15) - #1 most-wanted retro character for Melee; could he get in Brawl?
2. Lip (Panel de Pon) (9) - #2 most-wanted retro character for Melee; could she get in Brawl?
3. Richard (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) (8)
4. Metroid (6)
5. Foreman (from Wrecking Crew) (6)
6. Pit (5) - #5 most-wanted retro character for Melee and got in Brawl
7. Donbe or Hikari (5)
7. Misc. Character (The Marvelous Bunch) (5)
8. Samurai Goro (4) - #6 most-wanted retro character (#1 most-wanted F-Zero character) for Melee and got in Brawl as an Assist Trophy
9. Popo and Nana (4) - #6 most-wanted retro character for Melee and got in Melee
10. Balloon Fighter (4)

Non-Nintendo
1. Chocobo (9)
2. Doraemon (7)
3. Bomberman (5)
4. Crash Bandicoot (4)
5. Sonic (3)
6. Megaman (3)
[/COLLAPSE]
 

JPW

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Mortal Kombat also added Freddy Krueger.

Streetfighter IV 3DS and Super Streetfighter IV added Guy and Cody. I believe these guys cvame from Final Fight series.

In Streetfighter X Tekken there was Cole, Pacman, Megaman and some weird other set of characters.
 
D

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Again, I have asked this question, and again, I received no answer (at least from anyone that isn't blocked).
Doesn't Nintendo own the Sin & Punishment IP while Treasure merely worked on it, like the case with Wario and Wario World?
I remember seeing somewhere in an interview that a new Sin & Punishment (this was prior to Star Successor) would be completely up to Nintendo.
 

Big-Cat

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Mortal Kombat also added Freddy Krueger.

Streetfighter IV 3DS and Super Streetfighter IV added Guy and Cody. I believe these guys cvame from Final Fight series.

In Streetfighter X Tekken there was Cole, Pacman, Megaman and some weird other set of characters.
Mortal Kombat also added Kenshi and Skarlet (that was painful to type) who I forgot earlier.

Street Fighter and Final Fight take place in the same universe. In fact, Chun-Li even had a cameo in one of the earlier Final Fight games. This is why Guy, Cody, Hugo, Poison, Rolento, and Sodom can show up in SF games without any problems.

You can blame Sony for Cole and the cats. That being said, no one plays them in tournaments and they're just considered one time things. We can't say the same for Smash just yet. Still, the amount of guest fighters showing up in games hasn't been a whole lot. I'm curious about DOA as that's having at least Virtua Fighter's Akira Yuki and Sarah Bryant included.

@GY
Yes, Sin and Punishment is entirely Nintendo owned. Treasure has always been work for hire on that series.
 

JPW

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Because popularity (or lack there of) is not Sakurai's sole basis for evaluating and including characters. He also looks at what they bring to Super Smash Bros that is unique and makes people want to play as them. I'd say he's done a good job.
I never diminished his reasons of this. The previous postee was claiming Sakurai picks things based on series. In fact i applaud a revival of Kid Icarus. It is one of my most favourite games on the 3DS.

Skarlet and Kenshi were actually Mortal Kombat Originals.

Well Kenshi was. Way back in Mortal Kombat 4 i believe it was.

Skarlett was once a accident. Midway made a Kitana alternate with a red Outfit and used it in one of their backgrounds she was just supposed to be for bg. But people got creative and some actually believed she had more significance to the series so midway or Netherealm created a moveset and made her a new character.
 

Oasis_S

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I think Falco is Deucalion's Sheik, and Krystal his Impa.

If it's true S&P is entirely Nintendo owned, as I suspected, my hope for Saki continues to Skyrocket.

Though I don't put much stake in this "first-parties come first" business. BUT IF IT SUPPORTS SAKI THEN WHATEVER.
 

Deucalion

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Correct, but the thing is the series were not ignored if you look beyond characters. Remember characters are only a small fraction of what constitutes "representation".
Of course, but characters really is the most important part. Significant series really do deserve characters if at all possible. Nobody would accept it if the Legend of Zelda had no playable characters, but instead had 5 stages, 43 trophies, and 62 stickers on the basis that constituted representation. I would argue that Custom Robo, Starfy, Sin & Punishment and Golden Sun all meet the bar for "significance". If they do not make it in; it will be because Sakurai is not willing to move away from the Nintendo first parties and subsidiaries when considering which series get characters, not because the series are inherently unworthy of characters.

Considering Punch Out, Murasame Castle, and Mii will likely be included, it does not leave a lot of room for other series. I'd even go so far as to throw Xenoblade into that group, but I'm not going to deal with that discussion right now.
Murasame Castle will be the retro entry like Pit and Ice Climbers, rather than being entered on account of the series itself - you notice I excluded retro characters from my list earlier. I have also argued for the inclusion of Punch Out!!'s Little Mac and Mii, I'm not hypocritical on those grounds.

It isn't about series. You are coming at the situation as though there are only two possible scenarios, completely forgetting about all of the other variables that factor into Sakurai's selections. In fact, the only time Sakurai has even come close to discussing series representation was in reference to Mario and Pokémon because they have so many characters to select from.
He's not discussed series representation because, prior to this point, it was not really an issue. Now? As Holder of the Heel mentioned above, we've reached the point where all the really obvious boxes are ticked, and now we need to decide: do we include minor character X from a series that is already present, or do we have main character Y from a series which is not present. At this point, it becomes increasingly more obvious it is about series.

As for Falco, I will give you King DDD, but not Ridley. Reason being that Ridley is more of a Western obsession and has never really had the same following people seem to attribute to him. Not to say there aren't those in Japan who want him, but at the time when there were more characters to choose from, he didn't excel. In fact, according to the official Melee poll results, Metroid had six votes where as Ridley did not even make the list. Much hasn't really changed; the Metroid series has historically never really been as big of a deal in Japan as elsewhere in the world.

Long story short, it is easy to understand how Falco got in over Ridley when he (Falco) has seven votes to top all characters for the Star Fox series, while Ridley likely had one or no votes.
Are you really trying to argue that Ridley is less important to Nintendo's history than Falco? I mean, I understand there is always a degree of subjectivity to these arguments, but: Ridley has been present since the NES, and predates Falco significantly. Ridley has been an opponent of Samus in every single Metroid game bar 2, Hunters and Prime 2, and is the most frequent Metroid antagonist, and Metroid itself is more important than Star Fox, given it was the genesis of the Metroidvania genre, making Ridley the obvious second choice.

The official Melee poll was taken from a unweighted sample of 710 voters. Do you realise the margin of error on even a normally distributed weighted sample of 710 voters from a population of 4.9 million (the total amount of people who bought SSB in Japan)? It's about +/- 3.7% which is 26 votes. That means any two characters within 52 votes of each other could actually be equally popular. Nintendo knows that, Sakurai knows that. The real purpose of that poll was nothing more than whipping up hype - to think they were actually paying attention to the results is farcical. They're not morons, they know how statistics work. In addition, the poll was conducted before the release of Metroid Fusion, every single Metroid Prime game, and Other M. When that Melee poll was conducted, there had not been a Metroid game since Super Metroid. As I said, there is some degree of subjectivity, but arguing Falco is more important than Ridley is stretching subjectivity to the absolute breaking point.
 

---

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Street Fighter and Final Fight take place in the same universe. In fact, Chun-Li even had a cameo in one of the earlier Final Fight games. This is why Guy, Cody, Hugo, Poison, Rolento, and Sodom can show up in SF games without any problems.
Pretty sure that was Final Fight 2. Also Street Fighter needs more Haggar.
 

Deucalion

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I think Falco is Deucalion's Sheik, and Krystal his Impa.
What? As in implying like that other guy wanted Sheik removed and replaced with Impa? No fear. I don't think Krystal will make SSB4, at a prediction, where as Falco is essentially guaranteed to.
 

Oasis_S

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Ah, whoops, mistook you for that other new guy that goes on about Krystal replacing Falco. Sorry.

STILL THOUGH. Falco getting in over Ridley in Melee made complete sense.
 
D

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There's a little hole though with Falco, Star....

He got in specifically as a clone in Melee. The Melee Clones were under a different set of rules, if there was any to begin with.
Ridley had no chance unless Charizard HAPPENED to be playable in Melee seperated from the Trainer.
 

Deucalion

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Basically what Golden said. The reason Falco got in for Melee was because it was quick and easy to make some minor changes to Fox. If we ignored clones just for the moment, and said: as original characters to represent their series, do we add Ridley or Falco? then I really struggle to see how you could chose Falco from a position of blind faith.
 
D

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I would say if neither were in Smash at this point, Ridley.
But if it was in Melee, and pretending that clones won't exist, Falco. During Melee's time, there was really nothing seperating Ridley from say, Kraid or Mother Brain. It took Metroid Prime w/ Meta Ridley to cement the idea that Ridley is actually important.

Brawl would be both. :troll:
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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It turns out that Pokemon Conquest was a success in America, even IGN considers it to be the best Pokemon spinoff ever made.

:phone:
 

Deucalion

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Given in Melee's day, there hadn't been a Metroid game since Super Metroid, yeah, I'd actually argue it shoudn't have been Ridley or Falco - it should have been Wolf. :p But as Golden said, if you imagine for a moment that neither Falco nor Ridley had been in Brawl or Melee, and sat down and said "which one should I introduce for SSB4", it would be Ridley.
 

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Brawl would be both. :troll:
That's what I was thinking. Because Ridley should not have been in Melee. If neither of them were in Melee, then I guess they would have both had a shot at Brawl. But even NON-HYPOTHETICALLY, Ridley not making it in Brawl is understandable, if not PAINFUL.

Your comment about Charizard though. I guess that would have been a factor against Ridley. Adding two dragons and what not.
 
D

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That's what I was thinking. Because Ridley should not have been in Melee. If neither of them were in Melee, then I guess they would have both had a shot at Brawl. But even NON-HYPOTHETICALLY, Ridley not making it in Brawl is understandable, if not PAINFUL.

Your comment about Charizard though. I guess that would have been a factor against Ridley. Adding two dragons and what not.
Charizard's not a Dragon Type. :troll:
But still, if Charizard was playable in Melee, and it came time for clones, Ridley would've been a prime candidate as a clone of Charizard.
 

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Again, I have asked this question, and again, I received no answer (at least from anyone that isn't blocked).
Doesn't Nintendo own the Sin & Punishment IP while Treasure merely worked on it, like the case with Wario and Wario World?
I remember seeing somewhere in an interview that a new Sin & Punishment (this was prior to Star Successor) would be completely up to Nintendo.
I cannot say for certain. To be honest the only thing that would indicate to me that it was is, apparently, how Nintendo's Research & Development Department 1 helped co-develop the title.

Are you really trying to argue that Ridley is less important to Nintendo's history than Falco? I mean, I understand there is always a degree of subjectivity to these arguments, but: Ridley has been present since the NES, and predates Falco significantly. Ridley has been an opponent of Samus in every single Metroid game bar 2, Hunters and Prime 2, and is the most frequent Metroid antagonist, and Metroid itself is more important than Star Fox, given it was the genesis of the Metroidvania genre, making Ridley the obvious second choice.
Well guess what? Falco still got in. You can debate history and all that jazz, but it still does not change the reality of the situation. My point was to explain to you how it does make sense that, at that time, Falco made it in over Ridley.

The official Melee poll was taken from a unweighted sample of 710 voters. Do you realise the margin of error on even a normally distributed weighted sample of 710 voters from a population of 4.9 million (the total amount of people who bought SSB in Japan)? It's about +/- 3.7% which is 26 votes. That means any two characters within 52 votes of each other could actually be equally popular. Nintendo knows that, Sakurai knows that. The real purpose of that poll was nothing more than whipping up hype - to think they were actually paying attention to the results is farcical. They're not morons, they know how statistics work. In addition, the poll was conducted before the release of Metroid Fusion, every single Metroid Prime game, and Other M. When that Melee poll was conducted, there had not been a Metroid game since Super Metroid. As I said, there is some degree of subjectivity, but arguing Falco is more important than Ridley is stretching subjectivity to the absolute breaking point.
I know very well about statistics function. Even today, from users here who have visited Japanese websites, Ridley still does not come up freqeuntly. It is not surprising considering Metroid is a niche series is Japan. Even with Fusion, the Prime trilogy and Other M; it's still just that.
 

Deucalion

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Well guess what? Falco still got in. You can debate history and all that jazz, but it still does not change the reality of the situation. My point was to explain to you how it does make sense that, at that time, Falco made it in over Ridley.
It makes plenty of sense: Falco was a clone, and it took very little effort. Same reason Pichu made it in, same reason Dr. Mario made it in. That's doesn't indicate any of them were deserving, it just indicates Sakurai wanted padding.

I know very well about statistics function. Even today, from users here who have visited Japanese websites, Ridley still does not come up freqeuntly. It is not surprising considering Metroid is a niche series is Japan. Even with Fusion, the Prime trilogy and Other M; it's still just that.
I'd be willing to bet, in the present date, Star Fox is rather more niche than Metroid; given Star Fox hasn't had a new title since Command.
 

Metal Overlord

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Skarlet and Kenshi were actually Mortal Kombat Originals.

Well Kenshi was. Way back in Mortal Kombat 4 i believe it was.

Skarlett was once a accident. Midway made a Kitana alternate with a red Outfit and used it in one of their backgrounds she was just supposed to be for bg. But people got creative and some actually believed she had more significance to the series so midway or Netherealm created a moveset and made her a new character.
Oh, no, she wasn't just a stage prop; Skarlet actually has unfinished moveset data on the disc of the new Mortal Kombat, so she was planned to be a fighter. Maybe they chose to make her DLC due to time constraints

One of the main reasons she was created was because of a popular rumor waaaaaay back during the MK2 days; I believe there was a palette swap error in MK2 which sometimes caused Kitana and Mileena's outfit to red, so a lot of people thought she, The Lady In Red, was a hidden character in the game. NRS/Midway already had a history of turning popular rumors into reality (that's how Ermac, Brutalities, the character Blaze and Animalities came to be, afterall), anyway, so yeah

And Kenshi debuted in Deadly Alliance
 

FlareHabanero

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I'd be willing to bet, in the present date, Star Fox is rather more niche than Metroid; given Star Fox hasn't had a new title since Command.
Which is somewhat odd considering that Star Fox used to have moderate sales in Japan, but the ball dropped sometime after Star Fox Adventures was released. Even Miyamoto commented about the disappointing sales of the more recent games in Japan.

But to be fair like Metroid, Star Fox was more intended for a western audience to begin with.
 

Big-Cat

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And that's one thing we have to remember with some series. Some may play the Japan card, but it doesn't apply for every series. After all, Germans Love David Hasselhoff.
 

SmashChu

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Are you really trying to argue that Ridley is less important to Nintendo's history than Falco? I mean, I understand there is always a degree of subjectivity to these arguments, but: Ridley has been present since the NES, and predates Falco significantly. Ridley has been an opponent of Samus in every single Metroid game bar 2, Hunters and Prime 2, and is the most frequent Metroid antagonist, and Metroid itself is more important than Star Fox, given it was the genesis of the Metroidvania genre, making Ridley the obvious second choice.
Shoulda. Coulda. Woulda. Fact is Falco has been in 2 Smash games while Ridley is in none.
 
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