New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Baskerville]

An Idea for TL's normals

 

[Big-Cat]

[COLLAPSE="Zero Suit Samus"]Not a whole lot needs to be changed. ZSS was pretty good in Brawl. Just make her more streamline for an offensive game, maybe improve her recovery, and maybe make her a tad vulnerable to being juggled.[/COLLAPSE]

You may remember me suggesting this, but I'd like to see more of the plasma whip being emphasized. I'd like it where she has a weapon switch. The plasma whip being out gives her more of a mid-range game while it being out gives her a fighting style very reminiscent of Jill's in MvC3. Before anyone says anything, I only say Jill because she has moves that are acrobatic and whatnot that would be better representative of Samus' athletic skills than her being in the suit - especially since she has only only one hand in the suit.

 

[lordvaati]

Do you have gameplay videos of these players? I'm used to seeing the Japanese play with a more offensive style while American players camp.

M2K vs Ocean

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Guess I'm not the only one.

That does make sense in a overall sense. It was much easier to play around with all of the characters and do well, whereas in Melee it was a pretty mixed bag, if I remember correctly, I only played a small handful of the roster in Melee, whereas in Brawl sometimes I feel like playing random.

Though that isn't entirely a good thing, perhaps Sakurai's fear of characters losing their distinction is very real. The battle between distinction and balance is a tough job... it is surprising really that Sakurai didn't have god awful balance everywhere in Brawl if he did it by himself.

I have a theory that because Ganondorf was seen as "overpowered" in Melee (even though he's like 11th or 12th on the tiers; honestly, I think he's like 14th best), that the Brawl development team tried to "unbreak" Ganondorf when he wasn't broken at all. (really everyone who acts like Ganondorf in Melee is OP hasn't faced many elite Melee players)

He was viewed that way? Interesting. Well, I'm getting a replacement power cord for my Gamecube, so soon I won't be clueless when it comes to Melee in discussions.. It's been too long Melee!

 

[Big-Cat]

M2K vs Ocean

Just watching the first minute of it, it looks like the ROB player is focusing on maintain stage control and momentum while MK is going about things in a RTSD (Rush That **** Down) fasion. For example, MK was off stage, but ROB kept a moderate distance away, likely because he was taking MK's options into account.

So yes, in a sense, SmashChu was right in how they play it like Street Fighter. By this though, it's more about keeping your momentum and being strategic and deciding on whether to risk losing momentum, gaining more of it, or keeping put.

 

[Shorts]

In all honesty, would anyone really be that peeved to see some of the less likely/second choice characters get into Smash?

Like, say, Junior or Ghirahim getting in over Tingle and Toad.

Or JUST Dixie/Krom getting in?

 

[Baskerville]

K. Rool gets in before Dixie, end of story.

 

[Shorts]

K. Rool gets in before Dixie, end of story.

Hate to burst your bubble, but it could be completely the other way around.

Forbidden seven and all ya know. Technically, Sakurai planned Dixie, and not K. Rool.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Still say Ghirahim is the first choice for a Zelda slot if we get one.

I think Junior and Toad are too close in potential and reasoning to really get all up in arms over though, in my opinion.

And on top of what Shorts just said, there is another factor you must consider.

 

[Shorts]

Listen to the scary guy from Ancient Aliens. (Dude is ****ing nutso)

 

[Baskerville]

The fact that Sakurai is completely unpredictable when choosing characters and doesn't follow patterns the way people think? Yeah, I've taken that into consideration.

 

[Conviction]

Every day I'm shufflin'!

There will always be someone better than me in some aspect. I don't let that discourage me, if anything it works to motivate me because I recognize there is always better out there.

*Cue Bad LMFAO song*

That's why Iblis is a much better dancer than you.

I don't dance to impress, I dance to express.

I will never doubt the Japanese. They started gaming, it's only natural that they're the best at it.
Kinda like Americans and hot dog eating competitions.

Okay, okay.

You guys got it *** backwards. Here is the list from aggresive to campy.

1st Europe
2nd Japan
3rd America


Japan may seem more campy but they understand more concepts than we do and abuse more openings. They are aggresive by punishing space until they actually hit you or force you into a bad pattern. Being aggressive doesn't mean always attacking.

We are campy because we let such opprotunities go to the wayside because most mindset is, if I keep shoot projectiles and keep space away from him I'll win or just bait the timer out to force bad aggression out of the opponent.

Yes I believe Japan is better than us.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Hate to burst your bubble, but it could be completely the other way around.

Forbidden seven and all ya know. Technically, Sakurai planned Dixie, and not K. Rool.

Yes, and she was totally implemented in the final product along with Toon Zelda and "Pra_Mai". It's not like she was cut out because it didn't work or anything. Nope, not at all.

 

[Shorts]

Yes, and she was totally implemented in the final product along with Toon Zelda and "Pra_Mai". It's not like she was cut out because it didn't work or anything. Nope, not at all.

I'm pretty sure it had to do with the tag team aspect, not Dixie herself. But try again next time

*patpat*

 

[lordvaati]

on the topic of character balance, don't forget the overall choice of what characters get buffed or nerfed is based on the extreme majority- which includes competitive players, but mostly casual and common gamers. now according to the majorities in all 3 games,the most OP characters were:

64: no one really, though some complained about Kirby

Melee: Link, Ganondorf

Brawl: Metaknight,Snake,Ike,Pit

so those 4 above? expect them to get nerfed next game most likely.

 

[Shorts]

Pikachu, Fox, and Kirby are all miles better than characters like Link and Samus in Smash64.

At least from what I know.

 

[Conviction]

Just fix MK's hitboxes and he's fine. Ehh I'll be sad if Snake gets nerfed I thought he was balanced pretty well, people try to fight him to linearly and get *****. LOL@Ike&Pit. Something new and people scream broken.

And Ness beats everyone in 64

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well Snake and Ike are going away, Pit is going to get buffed, and Meta Knight will get nerfed.

...Wait, when were Pit and Ike OP all of a sudden?

 

[Baskerville]

Online scrubs

 

[Deleted member]

Dis discussion.

Needs more derp.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Trust me, there is already enough derp to go around. Especially with good ol' Shortie and Oasis to keep us busy for now.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Pikachu, Fox, and Kirby are all miles better than characters like Link and Samus in Smash64.

At least from what I know.

I think that is about right.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not like you're not guilty of derp, Jalapeno .

I'm guilty of it to, but it's mostly forced derp.

 

[SmashChu]

on the topic of character balance, don't forget the overall choice of what characters get buffed or nerfed is based on the extreme majority- which includes competitive players, but mostly casual and common gamers. now according to the majorities in all 3 games,the most OP characters were:

64: no one really, though some complained about Kirby

Melee: Link, Ganondorf

Brawl: Metaknight,Snake,Ike,Pit

so those 4 above? expect them to get nerfed next game most likely.

Forgot Lucas.

 

[Shorts]

Trust me, there is already enough derp to go around. Especially with good ol' Shortie and Oasis to keep us busy for now.

So when are you leaving?

 

[Oasis_S]

I almost forgot how cool I am. Look at that. Six is so Strong.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So when are you leaving?

Why should I leave?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

on the topic of character balance, don't forget the overall choice of what characters get buffed or nerfed is based on the extreme majority- which includes competitive players, but mostly casual and common gamers. now according to the majorities in all 3 games,the most OP characters were:

64: no one really, though some complained about Kirby

Melee: Link, Ganondorf

Brawl: Metaknight,Snake,Ike,Pit

so those 4 above? expect them to get nerfed next game most likely.

I find it odd because I believe there was an interview were Sakurai was nervous about putting kirby in melee and smash. He thought others would assume his own character kirby would be too good. Well, in smash64 this was almost true. In melee, maybe he realized it and changed his mind. And in brawl, it got shifted to kirby's nemesis.

I would really like to know about any interviews or facts regarding their balancing process. I imagine they do some of it, but do not get around to all of it. There are some things in frame data that simply do not make sense and are a bit weird.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm not surprised to see Omega is the only one with OVER 9000 posts.

 

[Big-Cat]

I would really like to know about any interviews or facts regarding their balancing process. I imagine they do some of it, but do not get around to all of it. There are some things in frame data that simply do not make sense and are a bit weird.

Yeah, they don't say anything as to how it's done whereas we know for traditional fighters, it's typically done on a matchup by matchup basis.

With Smash, it seems like the best thing to do would be to balance it with as few external random factors as possible - in order to keep consistency such as keeping it at 1 on 1 for balancing. BTW, you guys might wanna read this.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-11-the-rise-and-collapse-of-yoshinori-ono

First Inafune, and Ono now has problems. He had problems with them before, trying to restore it with SF4, but that didn't seem to work and we see this in SFxTK.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I'm not surprised to see Omega is the only one with OVER 9000 posts.

Overused joke is overused.

 

[~automatic]

Over 9000 is a staple of internet culture.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Over 9000 is a staple of internet cardiac arrest.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

^9000 is a staple that has even made media attention I believe. But hardly smash related ;p

Yeah, they don't say anything as to how it's done whereas we know for traditional fighters, it's typically done on a matchup by matchup basis.

With Smash, it seems like the best thing to do would be to balance it with as few external random factors as possible - in order to keep consistency such as keeping it at 1 on 1 for balancing. BTW, you guys might wanna read this.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-11-the-rise-and-collapse-of-yoshinori-ono

First Inafune, and Ono now has problems. He had problems with them before, trying to restore it with SF4, but that didn't seem to work and we see this in SFxTK.

This is going to be a long read. I dislike the idea of random factors. Tripping is certainly not the way to do it.

 

[Big-Cat]

That also includes items, having more than two fighters, and stage hazards.

On the topic of stage hazards, what do you guys think of stage hazards on some stages being controlled by a fifth player? It'd be an option of course.

 

[FlareHabanero]

A fifth player controlling the stages hazards via the Wii U Gamepad? Now that is some guaranteed butt hurt waiting to happen.

Spoiler

I support this idea;

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Overused joke is overused.

Ironically the joke you just used is also overused.

Also, the idea of there being some sort of asymmetrical option really seems like something to bet on seeing. Wouldn't mind it at all, actually would be hilarious, very Smash-like and Wii U-like at the same time, no brainer really.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Double posting because I want to be the first to show this:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/11/the-origins-of-pikmin-3

Pikmin 3 is going to have co-op multiplayer, and is more strategy based like the first one, as opposed to pure exploration in the second. No online co-op mode.

 

[Oasis_S]

I wish I could go out and play through both Pikmin and Pikmin 2 right now. I never got to play much of either. I especially want to play Pikmin 2 now that I know it had a focus on exploration.

UPRISING WILL HAVE TO DO.

 

[Shorts]

I've been trying to think of new ways to style the character select screen. Does anyone have anything more creative than the usual square?