New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Johnknight1]

Chances? Just implement a grab break mechanic. You know? Like every other fighting game, even TMNT Smash Up, has.

I dunno, I kinda like the way the Smash grab system works (minus long as heck chain grabs [like in Brawl], broke re-grabbing after grab releasing, and Whobbling).

The only use for a grab break mechanic IMO would be at low damage to prevent characters from getting damage real fast to keep the beginning of the matches more interesting.

And please explain this "post grab game".

I explained my made up word earlier as what happens after a grab. Like after you grab someone, can you chain grab them, land an attack your opponent can't dodge, go into a tech chase, etc. Basically, it is what follows a grab throw/grab release. If something is unavoidable (minus something that can do barely any damage), it should be changed IMHO.

It may be simpler, but I doubt it's the best solution. Not to say my proposal's any better of course.

Well again, 8 directions of aerials and tilts would inevitably mean less characters in Smash Wii U and 3DS. That is why I think adding only say 1-3 attacks per character per smash game would be a simpler way to slowly make every character have more attacks and options, if indeed that is the path Sakurai and co. want to go down.

 

[Conviction]

^^^ That is a great summary of the political situation in Uganda Iblis. It really inspired me.

Yeah, that is agreeable. However, IMHO we shouldn't just make characters different just to be different. Like we shouldn't say give Falco a new down air just to make him less like Fox (new animations is a different story). We should give him a new down air because it fits his moveset, play style, and "character" better than his current one.

This is completely agreeable, I'm pretty sure 95% of the people wouldn't be screaming clone, even in Melee, if the animations were different but the hitstun, knockback, and damage scaling stayed the same.

Which is why I have a hard time finding why people complain about clones when we have characters with movesets that are terrible and they aren't clones. Biggest case, Sonic.

Honestly, it's not the Impa I hate. Heck, I don't even hate Diddy for talking about her so much. What irks me most about the situation is how big a deal has been made of it. Everyone just likes something to rally against, and you guys found it in Diddy and Impa, regardless of how joking a nature the matter is treated with.

Actually, as far as SS Impa goes, you could even say I... like her. *gasps*

You must not understand. We didn't care at first, we even went along with it. He actually gained some Impa supporters...but then everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked. He went bat crazy with Impa, starting shoving the idea everyones throats to point where it seemed like the only thing he wanted to be talked about in this thread was Impa. He lost those people that supported Impa in that duration of insanity (that apparently hasn't ended), was part of the reason FanMan left in the first place, and an overall annoyance to the thread.

That's why we constantly attack the idea.

 

[Mypantisgone]

Should we spam diddy with john's association?

To be more precise about swapnote,you send letters to your friend with spotpass,and anyone with streetpass,you draw,write,change letter background,add photos and 5s long sounds to your letter,note:you draw the letter to write.

Tilts kind of already have the side tilt being able to slightly rotate,no new directions are needed.

 

[Conviction]

We aren't trying to add new directions.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Breadbug
The only "new" attack commands I have suggested was a Z-air for everyone, 8 directions of grab throws, making Final Smash(es) L3 and/or R3, and 8 taunts!

This is completely agreeable, I'm pretty sure 95% of the people wouldn't be screaming clone, even in Melee, if the animations were different but the hitstun, knockback, and damage scaling stayed the same.

People focus more on what they see than what happens when it comes to attack. Besides, we have been spoiled with our clones by Sakurai. In Smash 64, 3/4ths of the roster had mostly the same smashes, aerials, and tilts. Now we have characters like Lucas who has no attacks like Ness, except for 3 of his 4 B attacks and maybe his forward smash. Yet, we want him "decloned." Seriously=??? Should we then declone Luigi, Yoshi, Fox, and Captain Falcon because they have the same up air as Mario=???

Which is why I have a hard time finding why people complain about clones when we have characters with movesets that are terrible and they aren't clones. Biggest case, Sonic.

Exactly (although I think Pit has the worst moveset). There are characters like Zelda, Yoshi, Pit, Sonic, Bowser, Link, Mewtwo, etc. who have either lackluster movesets (ie: Sonic seems like he could be so much for), are consistently underpowered, or have some bland attacks that need more "flash." I think that is a higher priority than decloning characters.

 

[Conviction]

Speaking of which we should try making moveset that fit these character better than the ones they have now.

Oh god, I forgot how bad Mewtwo's moveset was.

 

[Mypantisgone]

Then why are we talking about "8 directions of areal and tilts"?

 

[Conviction]

R3/L3 Utilt. It's not a new direction, all you are doing is clicking in the stick while doing the already calibrated direction.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ We also now have the Z button called "R1," a new select button, and a new "L1" button on top of that. Those could be new attacks, or easier commands (ie: Final Smashes).

Just a quick thought, what do you guys think about side events like Homerun contest and the like but it requires the game pad? I'm just entertaining the idea since it's highly likely we will end up having such a thing. My question is, what exactly would they make out of it?

The only thing I would "want" to require the touch pad of the Wii U Pad would be stage builder related stuff (it would also be awesome if you could build Race to the Finish, Board the Platform, Break the Targets, ), maybe mini-games like Coin Launcher and ones that copy it could use the Wii U Pad.

That is assuming you can't click it as if it is a controller (that might be a control option), but I think the Wii U Pad's screen will show the what is on the TV screen for Smash Wii U.

 

[Conviction]

Hmmm making our own race to the finish and break the targets would be fun.

It would bring a sense of competitive that doesn't always have to deal with fighting. What had a time attack/score leaderboard for the already programmed Nintendo homerun, break the targets, etc.?

@Your edit: I completely forgot about those, idk what they could even use those for tbh, new buttons are always fun to think what they could them for.

 

[ViperGold42]

Hmmm making our own race to the finish and break the targets would be fun.

It would bring a sense of competitive that doesn't always have to deal with fighting. What had a time attack/score leaderboard for the already programmed Nintendo homerun, break the targets, etc.?

hmmmm seems kinda useless.

 

[nLiM8d]

Thats quite the interesting example there John. Interesting because the idea would be to create a playstlye to befit characters that didn't have distinct capabilities to begin with.

O.o​

Fox, Falco, and the like are characters that had styles built completely from scratch to accentuate their likeness. A catch 22 indeed.

Hmmm making our own race to the finish and break the targets would be fun.

I'd like to point out that the original set of minigames were developed to flesh out a character's capabilities, testing the bounds of their special abilities.

I suppose that becomes more difficult to implement the more characters you throw in the mix.

Comedy in a Half! "During a time of bold, unrelenting insanity, which persists even unto this day..."

 

[Conviction]

hmmmm seems kinda useless.

Like most side events in Smash that don't involve fighting?

 

[Johnknight1]

Hmmm making our own race to the finish and break the targets would be fun.

I know! It sounds so fun ^_^ Also, imagine creating perhaps your own say (Melee-esk) adventure mode levels, event matches, and maybe even a new home-run contest area!

It would bring a sense of competitive that doesn't always have to deal with fighting. What had a time attack/score leaderboard for the already programmed Nintendo homerun, break the targets, etc.?

Yeah, plus it would allow you to trade and give content to your friends, and be able to compete with them or play with them with a lot of this stuff. That is, of course, assuming we can play all of these modes with 2 players (hopefully up to 4), online with friends, and that on these stages you can upload your scores (or have leader boards for each stage).

@Your edit: I completely forgot about those, idk what they could even use those for tbh, new buttons are always fun to think what they could them for.

I imagine the L1 button could be another grab button. L3/R3 could active your final smash. The select button I think could do something funny, like turn your character around!

 

[Conviction]

I'd like to point out that the original set of minigames were developed to flesh out a character's capabilities, testing the bounds of their special abilities.

I suppose that becomes more difficult to implement the more characters you throw in the mix.

True, but I'm sure people could make their own custom ones to test specific character traits and then compare which characters' handling are similar.

The select button I think could do something funny, like turn your character around!

Turn and face the 4th wall.

Comedy in a Half! "During a time of bold, unrelenting insanity, which persists even unto this day..."

Da Bess.

 

[Johnknight1]

Then why are we talking about "8 directions of areal and tilts"?

That was an idea Kuma and Iblis merely brought up, but neither of them truly necessarily suggest. I felt eventually it could be in smash... like 4 smash games down the road!

Speaking of which we should try making moveset that fit these character better than the ones they have now.

Oh god, I forgot how bad Mewtwo's moveset was.

Mewtwo is a great example. All of his moves need more range (his hitboxes are way too small), his moveset seems to feel sloppy and not "connected," and he may need 1-2 new specials. Then there's Sonic, who needs more "unity" in his moveset, and maybe 1-5 new attacks. We known Sonic is a unique character; Brawl Sonic only scratched the surface.

 

[nLiM8d]

Oh hell yeah, tweak your own rendition of those mini games in order to demonstrate a discovery. There needs to be more ways to present advanced techniques to that degree.

We known Sonic is a unique character; Brawl Sonic only scratched the surface.

So there are people that understand.

 

[Conviction]

Brawl Sonic was more focused on him being a ball than him being Sonic The Hedgehog. There are more iconic moves he could have used, hell, his shield could have resembled those from Sonic 3&K.

Mewtwo didn't feel like a physic at all. Too much tail wagging, reminded me of a dog.

 

[nLiM8d]

Oh, get out of here with that new age hype. That video was over glorified to death.

 

[Deleted member]

Then why are we talking about "8 directions of areal and tilts"?

Why did I read this as 8 directions of Ariel ****?

What, a word for breasts is censored? Are people really that paranoid?

 

[Conviction]

Oh, get out of here with that new age hype. That video was over glorified to death.

You mad. Plus isn't not even new age dog, it's been more than a decade since the original release of the game

Why did I read this as 8 directions of Ariel ****?

What, a word for breasts is censored? Are people really that paranoid?

*** is blocked but badass isn't

 

[nLiM8d]

Nah, its just that gagging feeling like that video was trying to cram old hipster corny the hedgehog down my throat got to me. I just had to get away.

Tell that to the people that watched the rise and fall of their beloved Sega Mascot.

I wasn't sure exactly, so I had to find out for myself. I'm sure that video gives you goosebumps every time it crosses your mind.

 

[Conviction]

No, its just that gagging feeling like that video was trying to cram old hipster corny the hedgehog down my throat got to me and I had to get away.

Save the dramtics then and don't watch. You know me well enough to know that was going be there and you know it.

I've seen, and I feel that the fall started later than what you believe.

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh hell yeah, tweak your own rendition of those mini games in order to demonstrate a discovery.

I know. That would allow us to always keep new stadium/"single-player modes" new, and with 2-4 player multiplayer and online multiplayer, that will make this always popular!

There needs to be more ways to present advanced techniques to that degree.

Seriously. Kuma had some great ideas for a training mode that taught you how to do such things. Though most smash advanced techniques exist without developer knowledge.

Thats quite the interesting example there John. Interesting because the idea would be to create a playstlye to befit characters that didn't have distinct capabilities to begin with.

Exactly.

 

[nLiM8d]

It started when a few 'creative' minds got together and unwittingly watered down the franchise with their 'great' ideas.

Gimped game-play mechanics for the win! Please, showcase some of the fancy techniques Sonic could be supped up with if they borrowed moves from the Adventure generation.

 

[Conviction]

.

Seth told me to tell you to stop relations with Palmela Handerson.

Apparently he believes he is witty.

Seriously. Kuma had some great ideas for a training mode that taught you how to do such things (although most smash advanced techniques seem to exist without developer knowledge).

Exactly.

Couple that with wmy 10 win idea and the skillbase in the smash scene will be amazing and easy to jump into.

@N: Light Dash easily, or bounce attack seeing how that pays homage to the bubble shield in Sonic 3, fire somersault.

 

[nLiM8d]

Has Seth come out of the fetal position yet?

Lol, didn't the bounce move originate from the advance series?

Interestingly enough, the only way I can perceive the light dash being distinctive is if it adopted the same qualities from the *gasp* Rush series.

Otherwise it will just resemble another Fox Shine.

 

[Oasis_S]

BOOOORINGcaps.


Gosh, I just can't get it right.

 

[Big-Cat]

R3/L3 Utilt. It's not a new direction, all you are doing is clicking in the stick while doing the already calibrated direction.

The problem with this is that the 3DS is not capable of this. If we want to add new attacks and what not, we're limited strictly to six buttons: A, B, X, Y, L, and R. We're also likely limited to a single control stick which is one reason why I feel the C-Stick may be "abolished".

Seriously. Kuma had some great ideas for a training mode that taught you how to do such things. Though most smash advanced techniques exist without developer knowledge.

It's not so much that they exist without developer knowledge more so that nobody ever tells us about these things and we're forced to find them on our own. This another thing I think needs to be addressed in the next Smash. They need to identify all character specific advanced techniques, but not necessarily the application behind them. For example, let's say a character has an on hit jump canceling move and it just teaches you to do it with just a regular jump and NAir. You'll find out on your own that you could link the JC into a short hop special.

Also, my idea of the 9 directional inputs is probably much more different than what Iblis has in mind. Remember, mine is based off my new love affair, Virtua Fighter.

 

[Johnknight1]

Brawl Sonic was more focused on him being a ball than him being Sonic The Hedgehog. There are more iconic moves he could have used, hell, his shield could have resembled those from Sonic 3&K.

Sonic seems like he needs a new down B. I don't see the point in it. At least the forward and neutral B does something. Oh, and Sonic really needs a kill move, too.

Mewtwo didn't feel like a physic at all. Too much tail wagging, reminded me of a dog.

That is why I suggest all of his smash attacks be long-ish range psychic attacks. That and a lot more of his non-Smash and special attacks should be psychic.

 

[Conviction]

Seth, says he thinks you are confused, because the last time he was in the fetal position is because he was laughing at the fact you made an imaginary, no scratch that, asexual girlfriend.

 

[Big-Cat]

As I've said before, Sonic's Down and Forward B should be combined into a stance type move.

 

[Johnknight1]

It started when a few 'creative' minds got together and unwittingly watered down the franchise with their 'great' ideas.

Yep. That was about as cool as this was... well... expected!

Gimped game-play mechanics for the win! Please, showcase some of the fancy techniques Sonic could be supped up with if they borrowed moves from the Adventure generation.

Not just borrowing moves for Sonic from the Adventure generation games, but the 2D Sonic generation games as well.

 

[nLiM8d]

As I've said before, Sonic's Down and Forward B should be combined into a stance type move.

You never make any sense with posts like those. You're just throwing words around with no clear distinction.

Put plainly, its hard to picture by how you're describing things.

 

[Johnknight1]

As I've said before, Sonic's Down and Forward B should be combined into a stance type move.

I think Sonic's forward B should be more like it is in Project M. Sonic's down B should be something else entirely. As for what it should be, I have no clue.

Also, you should explain what you mean by this. I am totally lost as to what you mean by this!

 

[Big-Cat]

You never make any sense with posts like those. You're just throwing words around with no clear distinction.

Put plainly, its hard to picture by what you're describing.

Since you put it that way.

A stance move is when a character gets into a particular stance outside of their normal stance. From a stance, there are specific followups available only in this stance. With Sonic, his stance would be him curling into a ball with you holding down on the stick. From this, you would have a certain number of options to choose from based on your input.

A couple of examples in other fighting games are:

Tekken: Xiaoyu's Art of Phoenix and Rain Dance stances and Lei Wu-Long's many animal stances.
Mortal Kombat: Sonya's Military Stance
Street Fighter: El Fuerte's Habanero Dash. Believe it or not, Gen's two stances are NOT considered this since they're more like Zelda/Sheik.
Virtua Fighter: Eileen's monkey crouch and El Blaze's Rocket Discharge and Wall Jump
BlazBlue: Taokaka's dash and Litchi is kind of like this by design.

A particular trait about most of these stances is that they can be canceled into and out of which leads to a lot of combo possibilities.

 

[nLiM8d]

Your losing me with the options talk. I recommend you introduce your perspective based on how we're all familiar with the "cursed mold" style of gameplay.

 

[Big-Cat]

Except the closest to a stance character in Smash are the transformation characters and even that's a stretch.

 

[Johnknight1]

Okay, so it would be like Marth's forward B in a way=??? (this is directed at Kuma)

It's not so much that they exist without developer knowledge more so that nobody ever tells us about these things and we're forced to find them on our own.

It is actually kinda fun discovering these moves... although I doubt the development team knew about things like King Dedede's super chain grab or Meta Knight's infinite down B.

Also, my idea of the 9 directional inputs is probably much more different than what Iblis has in mind. Remember, mine is based off my new love affair, Virtua Fighter.

I don't think we should immediately insert things from other fighting games in smash. After all, smash has a completely different system/setup than other fighting games.

 

[Big-Cat]

Okay, so it would be like Marth's forward B in a way=???

No, that'd be more like chains.

I think the best way to describe it to you guys would be to think of it as Samus' morph ball mode in Metroid. She has moves in that state that she cannot do anywhere else.

EDIT: The more I think about, you COULD do 9-way inputs in Smash as the way they are, except it'd be much harder to do back inputs than forward ones. Also, I'm gonna be blunt when I say this, but if you guys don't understand what I say after I explain it, would it kill you to go look it up yourselves?