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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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SmashChu

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Since we are still talking about E3, here is some of what I've written so far. Let me know what you guys think:

[COLLAPSE="Why?"]As E3 comes to a close Nintendo has lifted the veil off of their latest console, the Wii U. Many of us came into this E3 with high expectations and dreams of how Nintendo would “wow” us all. Pikmin 3, New Super Mario Bros Mii, Super Smash Bros, Legend of Zelda, F-Zero, Retro’s Project, Monolith Soft’s project, Miyamoto’s new game; our wishlists’ were longer than a third grade child’s, and in the days that followed, exuberant euphoria was replaced with bitter disappointment. Although Nintendo’s E3 press conference failed to satiate the chronic appetite of the Nintendo fan base, is it really fair to say that their E3 conference was truly bad?

There is no question it was not their strongest presentation (E3 2006 still holds that title), but at least the first twenty minutes had my inner fanboy juices flowing, unlike the abomination known as E3 2008. Nintendo set out to accomplish what they wanted to do, give the public a new look at the Wii U, and deliver a solid launch line up. They achieved all of that Tuesday. The dirty little secret that no one was told prior to E3 is that Nintendo was not interested in discussing titles outside of the Wii U’s launch window (which is about 4-5 months beyond release date according to Reggie), expecting anything more from them is unreasonable. Just Dance 4 and SiNG are not exactly my choice of games for highlighting, but I do understand the business behind their promotion, though that did not stop me from gagging as I watched the Ubisoft paid dancers come on stage to “get down”; to say it was nauseating would be an understatement. In spite of this Nintendo has a solid launch line up planned come the undefined “Holiday”. For the first time since Nintendo 64 a Nintendo console will launch with a Mario title, New Super Mario Bros. U. Undoubtedly NSMB:U will be as much of a success as the original two titles were, and is the kind of game that can sell a system. The idea of another Mario title seem predictable and uninteresting, (especially with New Super Mario Bros. 2 on the horizon) the game is actually quite astounding. The environments are more varied than before (artistic style is always a winner), the visuals are vibrant and crisp, taking full advantage of the HD output, and the game pays homage to Super Mario World. It is a perfect title for Nintendo fans and families alike.

New Super Mario Bros. U is not the only title Nintendo has scheduled to arrive, there is also Nintendo Land. The game looks fun, and everything I have seen only continues to further cement my opinion. The unfortunate thing about this game is for a long time people will treat this game with animosity solely because it had the misfortune of capping a dying presentation, had it been shown earlier in the conference the reaction to this game probably would not have been so severe. Nintendo touts this title as their “killer app”, the game that will define the Wii U as much as Wii Sports did the Wii. That’s great and all, but if it is not packaged with the console, I fail to see how Nintendo Land will ever achieve that same level of success. The advantage the game has it that it is a game containing twelve mini-games reflecting various Nintendo franchises, name power alone could help Nintendo Land sell. At the end of the day Nintendo Land seems like a gamble on Nintendo’s part. I’m positive it will sell well, but I am just unsure if it will become the next “big” thing like Nintendo is hoping, unless it is a packaged deal. Nintendo is reluctant to talk about their launch plans, so until they announce their plan this lingering doubt will remain.

Pikmin 3 is everything I expected and wanted from the title. Adorable Pikmin in being thrown around in HD. It was not much of a surprise considering Miyamoto has been pestered about this game in the past two year, but it was nice to see. Unlike the first two Nintendo titles Pikmin 3 is a “launch window” title, which is a fancy of way of saying it is going to come a month of two after the Wii U. The only negative thing to say about Pikmin 3 is the return of the timer. Outside of that there is not much more that I can say. Wii Fit U, besides sounding like a promotional for a ghetto tailor, is another launch window title from Nintendo. That is a good title for many of the families who already own Wii Fit/Plus and Balance Boards, apart from that it is not something all that spectacular or shocking. It is interesting how Nintendo is leaning back on the older Wii accessories, it makes me feel a little bit more confident that I did not waste my money.

I’ll talk about the Wii U hardware later.[/COLLAPSE]
I can safely say it was a bad show. Unlike what you think, Nintendo faikled in their mission to get the word out on Wii U. No one cares. Adam Sessler made the point that Nintendo doesn't seem ready (starts at 19:55).

Remember that this was when they were trying to sell the system. It was to make us want a Wii U. The Wii showed tons of titles. The 3DS had 7-8 first party titles. Here we had 4. People were running to the Wii. They aren't to the Wii U. The stock price also went up after the Wii.

N's quote tells us why the Wii U wont succeed.
We're actually moving away from E3 at this point Star.
Which is posted during E3.
 

nLiM8d

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I think the point stands that there are certain characters who would be better accustomed to the field of Nintendo's likeness than those that market based on familiarity and popularity.

SmashChu said:
Which is posted during E3.
This is not a thread about E3 or hot topics for that matter.
 

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While I love Super Mario 64 and Super Mario 1 and 2 (and kinda sorta Sunshine), it is nice to see some 2D Mario games, even if I am not the biggest NEW Super Mario Bros. fan.

Plus, didn't we get Super Mario 3D Land not too long ago=???

My only complaint these days is that these Mario games don't have a ton of replay value. Sunshine literally had the most replay value out of all of the platform Mario games this century... mostly because it was open-world. Galaxy 1 and 2 were the definition of linear IMHO. The Wii U seems like the perfect console for a wide open Mario game, much like Super Mario 64, if not more so. I just hope the detailed focus that was in Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 aren't lost in the process.

Regardless, we are spoiled with quality Mario games.
 

Conviction

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Well anything that doesn't make the game needlessly harder to learn. Like having to push 12 different buttons just to jump. Still, the higher the curve can go up, the better. Still, it should be easier and more accessible to learn how to go up that and to put players in a position to go up to them.
Which is perfectly agreeable. The more learning curve technically the more depth. Is what usually what I want to get into details about.

A good picture to show how spoiled the gaming community itself has gotten or how the companies producing the games can't make what now became the special stuff the main course anymore? Leaving what can be truely special something to be desire.



You're comparing two characters from the same universe.
Essentially comparing a series with a spin-off of said series.

You'd be better using something like StarFox instead of Wario.
Doesn't make a difference. If the inclusion gives a better appeal to a game then why not do it. As much as I don't want Miis OR AC characters, Miis from an economical standpoint, the standpoint Nintendo itself at this point in time (looking at the drop in stocks) cares about the most, would be the smartest move.
 

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The Wii U is gonna do well. Maybe not as well as the Wii, but well. I mean, look at the most successful handheld ever IMO: The DS. It started off slow, and was getting beaten by the PSP. Seriously, the launch games are so much better than the Wii's or GameCube's launch titles. Let me go through them to further prove my point.

The GameCube had the 1st Pikmin (great) and Luigi's Mansion (good, but no replay value) as its' 2 best launch titles.

The Wii had Twilight Princess (just a few feet short of classic, but not high replay value) and Wii Sports (revolutionary but simple and not that great) as its' 2 best launch titles.

The Wii U is launching with Pikmin 3 (probably better than Pikmin 1), NEW Super Mario Bros. U (the 1st launch Mario title since Super Mario 64), and Nintendo Land (which looks great). That and it will launch with re-releases of Mass Effect 3 and Batman: Arkahm City (classic games), and maybe launch with new 3rd party titles in Assassin's Creed III (HYPE!), the next Scribblenauts (I am a huge fan of this series), and Rayman Legends (a Wii U exclusive that is gonna be AWESOME!). Oh, and maybe Project P-100, too! :)
 

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I agree with you on everything but the re-releases. I think people who got tired of 3rd parties running rampant is because they mostly re-releases, people who have multiple consoles and have already enjoyed this game on other said console doesn't want to go out and re-purchase it again for some graphical updates and some new features that aren't revoluntionary, especially if the game hasn't hit the title classic.
 

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I must be the only one that really enjoys the 2D mario games. And these next two seem a lot more unique and exciting than the previous two. But moving on...

With the Wii U we are getting what seems to be the best Pikmin (it looks beautiful, has a lot of time into it, and has the most pikmin, captains, and challenge modes and thus seems more strategic), what seems like the best NSMB (NSMB2 looks great and all, but one on the Wii U that can have five players is a bit tough to beat objectively), Nintendo Land (which seems a lot better than Wii Sports, which lasted me quite some time at launch, more than Twilight Princess anyways :laugh: ), what seems to be the best Rayman game EVER (seriously, it looks amazing and I've recently seen an article that praised it for having the best Wii U multiplayer), a ton of third party games about assassins, aliens, zombies, demons, etc. plus a brand new IP like John just said that is definitely eye catching.

Plus, GOOD online interaction with pretty much all of these. And yes, a lot of ports, but these ports are good for the people playing Nintendo that are exclusively doing so, like me, and quite frankly, probably a lot of their market.
 

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But" how will any of this relate to Smash" is what we should be trying to speculate. We've already learned what we could from E3.
 

Johnknight1

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Which is perfectly agreeable. The more learning curve technically the more depth. Is what usually what I want to get into details about.
Exactly. Just having more depth technically and strategically while still allowing easy access and opportunities to getting players in position to go up that learning curve.
 

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I can safely say it was a bad show. Unlike what you think, Nintendo faikled in their mission to get the word out on Wii U. No one cares. Adam Sessler made the point that Nintendo doesn't seem ready (starts at 19:55).

Remember that this was when they were trying to sell the system. It was to make us want a Wii U. The Wii showed tons of titles. The 3DS had 7-8 first party titles. Here we had 4. People were running to the Wii. They aren't to the Wii U. The stock price also went up after the Wii.
I have not delved into the negative aspects of Nintendo's E3 presentation, and believe me I will. I will say that Adam Sessler is not exactly someone who's opinion I take very seriously.

More than half of those first party titles you mentioned did not even come out till a minimum of three months later. Animal Crossing and Paper Mario still have not been released yet! Nintendo only focused on the upcoming titles. More than likely Nintendo will go into further detail of the Wii U, and reveal more games, at their own conference later this Summer/Fall.

@Topic:

How does everyone feel about a Nintendo Land stage? I was thinking such a stage could utilize ideas from my "Nintendo" stage concept.
 

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I wonder if Z/L-cancelling could involve more attacks, specifically more special attacks than before. Like using Marth's counter, and following it up with a combo.
Please, elaborate further, certainly you have more scenarios in mind.

Maybe the rate at which they fall or rise is based on if they are hit or a force acts upon them.
Based on some aspects of directional influence, could we say that directing your fall speeds holds significance to momentum? Done properly, its possible to air dodge out of a jump. I'd like to give horizontal air dodging a name like, phasing or something; those air dodges coupled with a direction have an impact on spacing and/or positioning.

In the sense that you are managing that positioning, who's to say it doesn't add appropriate layer of depth to your range of motions? Knowing that they decided to alter those capabilities for Brawl, I suspect that the designers were very much aware of Z/L canceling and its uses. To do away with it to where the motion is almost negligible convinces me that either they didn't have the mind to capitalize on it or they didn't know how to approach the issue practically.

How does everyone feel about a Nintendo Land stage? I was thinking such a stage could utilize ideas from my "Nintendo" stage concept.
Based on what you've seen, what would you specify as the main overtone of a stage like this? Is Nintendo land a pageant for the all stars or is there something deeper we can expect?
 

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I agree with you on everything but the re-releases. I think people who got tired of 3rd parties running rampant is because they mostly re-releases, people who have multiple consoles and have already enjoyed this game on other said console doesn't want to go out and re-purchase it again for some graphical updates and some new features that aren't revoluntionary, especially if the game hasn't hit the title classic.
Yeah, well they are at least better games than average stuff like that Wave Race game on the GameCube or Red Steel on the Wii.

Also, I have played Arkham Asylum (not City), and it was a classic IMHO. Arkham City only looks better... at everything.
 

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Based on what you've seen, what would you specify as the main overtone of a stage like this? Is Nintendo land a pageant for the all stars or is there something deeper we can expect?
Probably a fun, celebratory atmosphere representing Nintendo in it's entirety. I was thinking about having the characters fighting on platforms designed as consoles above the park. Still need to see more of the game to truly capture the proper atmosphere.
 

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@Topic:

How does everyone feel about a Nintendo Land stage? I was thinking such a stage could utilize ideas from my "Nintendo" stage concept.
Well of course you must have something specific in mind and if you don't mind sharing it I would like to give it a look and throw some ideas back and forth.

Exactly. Just having more depth technically and strategically while still allowing easy access and opportunities to getting players in position to go up that learning curve.
Speaking of which gives me an idea. So if Nintendo allows a leaderboard for the next Smash, they should allow for everyone 10 (or some random consistent number) wins a DLC of a video appears for you and it teaches you a new gaming concept of Smash allow for those that are pursuing to get better in the ladder to actually get better. These videos can be from those that either find new ATs or such or just people are who are good at explain concepts like Rock-Paper-Sisscor situations and the like.

Also, I have played Arkham Asylum (not City), and it was a classic IMHO. Arkham City only looks better... at everything.
And I agree but that's 2 games out of how many?

@Star: Don't you think we should also maybe feature an iconic area from every franchise represented in the Smash series flashing or scrolling through the background in this Nintendo Land Stage?
 

nLiM8d

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I was thinking about having the characters fighting on platforms designed as consoles above the park.
For some reason I the thought came to mind that a stage of this likeness would have an architecture based on a spiral column.

While you're arenas are primarily two dimensional, their choreography, for lack of a better term, into your playing field would be introduced in a way where you are climbing or descending.

Que to around 4 min where the ship comes in.
 

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Please, elaborate further, certainly you have more scenarios in mind.
Like you know how Fox and Falco can short hop laser cancel=??? Imagine having L-cancelling that with EVERY B-attack (kinda like how we have it with every aerial attack).
Based on some aspects of directional influence, could we say that directing your fall speeds holds significance to momentum? Done properly, its possible to air dodge out of a jump.
Do you mean that say going sideways with DI should effect how fast you fall=??? Or that the character's momentum should be different while using your DI from side to side=???
I'd like to give horizontal air dodging a name like, phasing or something; those air dodges coupled with a direction have an impact on spacing and/or positioning.
You mean an air dodge that makes you only go sideways=??? Or the air dodge working differently if you go sideways=??? Or to change the way smash bros momentum works=???
In the sense that you are managing that positioning, who's to say it doesn't add appropriate layer of depth to your range of motions? Knowing that they decided to alter those capabilities for Brawl, I suspect that the designers were very much aware of Z/L canceling and its uses. To do away with it to where the motion is almost negligible convinces me that either they didn't have the mind to capitalize on it or they didn't know how to approach the issue practically.
I think because Brawl seemed to be built around defense is the reason Z/L-cancelling was cut. However, don't forget that at the E For All demo in November 2007 (2 months before Brawl came out) that L-cancelling was in it (although it was only about 25-40% of the lag as oppose to 50-60% of the lag in Melee).

I think they thought eliminating it would make big/powerful characters with some speed, like Ike, Snake, and King Dedede, wouldn't be broken. During development, I imagine the development team especially feared Ike and Snake would be broken. However, having L-cancelling probably, ironically, would have made it make Meta Knight less broken.

Also, lastly, I think a lot more of Brawl's balancing was reliant on Sakurai than in Smash 64 or Melee, due to the lack of people who previously worked on the series (at HAL Laboratories). Literally Sakurai balanced everything and did everything final on his own. I love Sakurai, but the man can't do everything on his own. That's simply impossible.
 

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@Topic:

How does everyone feel about a Nintendo Land stage? I was thinking such a stage could utilize ideas from my "Nintendo" stage concept.
Go ahead if you have a few ideas, I'm stumped on what a stage like that would be like, especially the music.
 

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John

You NEED to play Arkham City

I love both games but City is better in pretty much every way
I will. I still haven't bought Arkham Asylum. I'm waiting to buy Arkham City until a Gold Edition or whatever comes out, and I'll probably buy Arkham Asylum with it. I is cheap! :awesome:
 

Conviction

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John

You NEED to play Arkham City

I love both games but City is better in pretty much every way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL6t6K8UzFs

For some reason I the thought came to mind that a stage of this likeness would have an architecture based on a spiral column.

While you're arenas are primarily two dimensional, their choreography, for lack of a better term, into your playing field would be introduced in a way where you are climbing or descending.

Que to around 4 min where the ship comes in.
What if they were to mesh similar Nintendoverses together in the background and show the generics interacting.

Go ahead if you have a few ideas, I'm stumped on what a stage like that would be like, especially the music.
Welcome to the conversation my brother.

Do you mean that say going sideways with DI should effect how fast you fall=??? Or that the character's momentum should be different while using your DI from side to side=???

You mean an air dodge that makes you only go sideways=??? Or the air dodge working differently if you go sideways=??? Or to change the way smash bros momentum works=???
Looking at this reminded me, they should have a way to break fastfalling. This will surely give players more control over there vertical gameplay.

Also, why doesn't phyisc just work they are supposed to? When you running into a spotdodge or dodge roll, the character should actually animate into a slide not a random traction implement.
 

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Speaking of which gives me an idea. So if Nintendo allows a leaderboard for the next Smash, they should allow for everyone 10 (or some random consistent number) wins a DLC of a video appears for you and it teaches you a new gaming concept of Smash allow for those that are pursuing to get better in the ladder to actually get better. These videos can be from those that either find new ATs or such or just people are who are good at explain concepts like Rock-Paper-Sisscor situations and the like.
Not just that, but there could be all kinds of videos for how to get better (on the disc/cartridge, as well as online), training modes that help you get better and teach you all kinds of stuff, etc. There are all kinds of different guides and methods that could be used to help make Smash Bros. players get better, like you mentioned.
And I agree but that's 2 games out of how many?
That is a heck of a lot more than the GameCube or Wii had at their launch (although getting a Wii version of Resident Evil 4 was amazing). Plus, again, it is an added bonus to get the console. Plus if Mass Effect 3 and Arkham City get sequels happens, that means we will get sequels to those games on the Wii U, which is good for Nintendo. ;)
 

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Well of course you must have something specific in mind and if you don't mind sharing it I would like to give it a look and throw some ideas back and forth.
I have a couple, but like I said I need to see more out of the game first.

@Star: Don't you think we should also maybe feature an iconic area from every franchise represented in the Smash series flashing or scrolling through the background in this Nintendo Land Stage?
Nah, for the most part the primary first party Nintendo titles already have things representing them in Nintendo Land.

For some reason I the thought came to mind that a stage of this likeness would have an architecture based on a spiral column.

While you're arenas are primarily two dimensional, their choreography, for lack of a better term, into your playing field would be introduced in a way where you are climbing or descending.

Que to around 4 min where the ship comes in.
That would make sense considering there is that large tower in the center of the park.

Go ahead if you have a few ideas, I'm stumped on what a stage like that would be like, especially the music.
I can see a mixture of classic Nintendo tunes and some Wii series music alongside actual tracks from the game:

Nintendo Land - Sweet Day (Animal Crossing)
Wii Party - Menu
Famicom - Famicom Medley (Brawl)
Pictobits - End Credits

One idea I've had for Nintendo Land is having platforms attached to the top of the tower as it rotates, giving players a panoramic view of the park and its attractions. Miis on the floor will fill up via Miiverse, as well as the system Miis.
 

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Buying a Wii U late just means I am missing out on all the hardware and software just so I can get spend a RIDICULOUS amount of money later on to catch up with everyone else. We have enough good games at launch, waiting for even more is just asking to spend too much in a small span of time or else fall behind on games even further. Not to mention, the 3DS has a very bright future. Smartest option is to literally get it early I believe. I'm actually relieved there isn't more, my parents are already rolling their eyes at how much money I am begging for in the upcoming months. :laugh: *doesn't have a job*

While I am also curious to hear more about Project P-100, especially since Sakurai is curious and may implement it in SSB4 in some fashion, I am not sure if it warrants two exclamation marks still. XDDD I guess it does though, it seems good.
ur only saying that cuz their buying it not u.I do chors and save my birthday and christmas money
 

nLiM8d

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So to clarify some things, what I'm describing here doesn't have to do with altering the gameplay. Simply that by my observation of Air dodging mechanics, the execution of an air dodge was much more pronounced in Melee.

What I am trying to describe is a set of mechanics that have distinct motions that pronounce certain actions. We might call those things animation frames. Notably, we have the ability to control the rate of motion our character can perform, the speed of running or falling, short hopping, skidding what have you.

If the L/Z canceling procedure was pronounced enough, perhaps what we might call a tech barrier would be squarely based on what you have to your arsenal. The purpose would not be to have unnecessarily complication motions but to integrate motions which improve a players performance.

Star said:
One idea I've had for Nintendo Land is having platforms attached to the top of the tower as it rotates, giving players a panoramic view of the park and its attractions. Miis on the floor will fill up via Miiverse, as well as the system Miis.
Gotta love that Star charm. To capitalize on what's been presented.

John said:
I think the light shield bubble in Melee (when you lightly press L or R) should be the standard shield (size).
Oh the pressure sensitive generation, we must find out more about the the new Pro pad

One thing I recently noticed is how Nintendo is returning to its accessibly based controllers



Lefty or Righty you can play!
 

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Guys, I think we shoull all hope that these forthcoming smash bros. games needs to be as epic as this battle.
Looking at this reminded me, they should have a way to break fastfalling. This will surely give players more control over there vertical gameplay.
That would be pretty sweet (although technically Fox and Falco can shine), :smirk: actually. It would also be cool if you could DI to the sides at different speeds (for more control).
Also, why doesn't physics just work they are supposed to? When you running into a spotdodge or dodge roll, the character should actually animate into a slide not a random traction implement.
I haven't actually thought of that before. Still, the only real difference would be animations.

While we're talking about technical stuff, I think the light shield bubble in Melee (when you lightly press L or R) should be the standard shield (size).
 

nLiM8d

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I like to pretend that the Virtual Boy never existed
Oh but it did! and it gave us VB wario land, the best....

[COLLAPSE="Game was Da ****!"]
[/COLLAPSE]
Jokes aside, the VB did have a fantastic Pad.

If a Smash game was produced in the SNES era, they would have a good controller to rely on.
 

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Oh but it did! and it gave us VB wario land, the best....

[COLLAPSE="Game was Da ****!"]
[/COLLAPSE]

Jokes aside, the VB did have a fantastic Pad.

If a Smash game was produced in the SNES era, they would have a good controller to rely on.
thats why we have a classic controller :D
 

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Not just that, but there could be all kinds of videos for how to get better (on the disc/cartridge, as well as online), training modes that help you get better and teach you all kinds of stuff, etc. There are all kinds of different guides and methods that could be used to help make Smash Bros. players get better, like you mentioned.

That is a heck of a lot more than the GameCube or Wii had at their launch (although getting a Wii version of Resident Evil 4 was amazing). Plus, again, it is an added bonus to get the console. Plus if Mass Effect 3 and Arkham City get sequels happens, that means we will get sequels to those games on the Wii U, which is good for Nintendo. ;)
This true about 3rd parties. Guides would be amazing.

I have a couple, but like I said I need to see more out of the game first.



Nah, for the most part the primary first party Nintendo titles already have things representing them in Nintendo Land.
What if they were to mesh similar Nintendoverses together in the background and show the generics interacting.
So to clarify some things, what I'm describing here doesn't have to do with altering the gameplay. Simply that by my observation of Air dodging mechanics, the execution of an air dodge was much more pronounced in Melee.

What I am trying to describe is a set of mechanics that have distinct motions that pronounce certain actions. We might call those things animation frames. Notably, we have the ability to control the rate of motion our character can perform, the speed of running or falling, short hopping, skidding what have you.

If the L/Z canceling procedure was pronounced enough, perhaps what we might call a tech barrier would be squarely based on what you have to your arsenal. The purpose would not be to have unnecessarily complication motions but to integrate motions which improve a players performance.
So are you asking for these techniques to have actual animations so you know you did it? Like platform cancelling looked like more than a random land out of a rise.

While we're talking about technical stuff, I think the light shield bubble in Melee (when you lightly press L or R) should be the standard shield (size).
Yeah. Characters in Brawl had sheild problems.
 

nLiM8d

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And we will have the next Pro controller to rely on

Firstly

thats why we have a classic controller :D
What's the reason?

Secondly

SSF2´s characters designes reminds me of the SNES characters.
What???

The quality of a newcomer mindset astounds me
 

Johnknight1

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The Classic Controller is nowhere near as good as the GameCube IMO (or as good as the SNES controller). Plus the Wiimote can get frequency mix up from other Wiimotes.

Also, we can still use the GameCube controller, as I previously mentioned. However, we might have to deal with Wiimote frequency mix ups until someone makes a plug for the Gamecube controller to go into the Wii U.

@ Iblis
Exactly. It's almost as if Nintendo is keeping everything good with their 1st and 2nd parties (and everything good about 3rd party support on the Wii), and "starting over" with everyone else. At least, that is what they want 3rd party companies that weren't all aboard the Wii to be all aboard the Wii U.

Also, I forgot that Madden 13 will probably be a Wii U launch title).

Lastly, too many Brawl characters had shield problems, since you could poke around shields. That only made the strong characters stronger, and the weaker characters weaker.
 
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