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It's only complex because both sides can adjust their team sizes. I think this solution is better because I know most people liked to only play with one of them, but you had those that preferred to use them all as a team. You could simplify the chart above for the Pokemon Trainer like so:
Three Pokemon: Base attack strength and weight.
Two Pokemon: Attack strength and weight are reduced by 25% of their base values.
Three Pokemon: Cut both attack strength and weight in half.
Not to complex, and map the taunts as your tag outs.
Yes, but if they all are strong enough to fight on their own, what is the problem=??? It's really not that hard to do. Plus, again all of them should have some sort of match up issues. Otherwise, the Pokémon Trainer player has the upper hand from the get go with 3 Pokémon/playable characters, all of which have totally different match ups.
Not sure if this means much, but on a questionaire on the SSB64 "Dojo", Sakurai is asked what is the likelyhood of Nazo no Murasame-Jo getting another game or Takamaru being in Smash Bros.
Sakurai's answer: Both have pretty low chances.
While this was of course for Melee, and now, Takamaru has been a bit more relevant inside and outside Japan, this could easily change.
Sakurai said if Takamaru got another game, he would probably get in a future Smash.
I don't really know if it counts, but he was a playable character in Samurai Warriors 3.
Anyway, Takamaru is one of the most popular retro characters not in Smash yet. I think that even if the game doesn't get a true sequel, Takamaru will get in eventually.
He is. But both of them are Pokéball Pokémon in Brawl. Judging by how Charizard and the idea of a Pokémon Trainer has always been desired in smash and how Deoxys support has died over the past few years (and Metagross support has been micro-sized at best), I sincerely doubt either.
As for Deoxys, he seems really similar to Mewtwo and Lucario. I mean, the only thing he has that they don't are different forms and a changing body. That's it.
Lucario ain't going anywhere. He's too popular. I mean seriously-he's a noticeable part of the Black and White 2 advertisements! Plus, he was well-received in Brawl.
And if anyone is being "cut" due to "time restraints," it will probably be Weegee Wolf. Plus even if Wolf is cut, there is always DLC!
But if Takamaru get a new game should he still be considered as a retro character ?
Oh and no, Lucario shouldn't be cut as he is still poppular, represent by himself generation 4 and that new pokemon players deserve more than just a single 5th generation pokemon.
@:true,i agree.
I still think it wouldn't be a great thing if the games are the same.Anyway,the 3DS will be for the solo gaming,so maybe it will be different in some modes.
Takamaru does have the upper hand since the game was a sister franchise to Zelda. I've been supporting him for 7 years after discovering and playing the original game. Though, I have a good feeling that he'd the forgotten character revealed in the trailer.
Yeah, Takamaru is gonna get some serious consideration in Smash Wii U/3DS.
You gotta figure if Sakurai makes 3 smash games after Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS, Takamaru is gonna eventually be playable.
@ Xhampi
Takamaru would still be considered "retro." Just not "purely retro" anymore. He would also be considered "modern."
For example, Mario is over 31 years old, which fits the definition of "retro." However, there are games with Mario in it coming out about every other month. Thus, Mario is also "modern." Video game characters don't have to be exclusively "retro" or exclusively "modern." They can be both if they have a long history.
NeonKid speaks the truth.
I like Entei and it can be unique, but I'm not picking it as a potential candidate even if it has two movies under it's belt, as it's still minor of a Pokemon in terms of promotion.
Yes, but if they all are strong enough to fight on their own, what is the problem=??? It's really not that hard to do. Plus, again all of them should have some sort of match up issues. Otherwise, the Pokémon Trainer player has the upper hand from the get go with 3 Pokémon/playable characters, all of which have totally different match ups.
Well, I was gonna word it differently where a solo Pokemon was the base and that they got nerfed as more team members were added, but I figured that buffing them from three to one would sound more appealing. Basically, the Pokemon wouldn't be very strong in a team, but they would be on par with everyone else if they went solo. This way, they still have matchup issues like everyone else.
And different matchups for each Pokemon is part of the strategy in using them. That's what will make team usage appealing.
You mean like Lucario's damage system=???
Although I think Lucario's damage system reversed would make sense, although it's kinda sorta in smash already.
Side note: Friggen elemental weakness needs to die in Smash! I can't believe they existed in the first place...
Both of those need to go. If we really wanted Aura implemented, I think using a command taunt that could boost his attack strength (like Lucas' Offense Up in Project M) using aura would be something less clutchy.
And yes, elemental weaknesses should go. The Pikmin already have a distinct ability that is independent of their elemental weakness (or lack of).
The way I see it, it's a three way competition between Mach Rider, Takamaru, and Muddy Mole. For all we know, all three could get in, only 2 could get in, only 1, or none.
But so far we have those three for the following reasons involving Sakurai.
Mach Rider: Was proclaimed as Sakurai's favorite character for 'Smash 2' (before it even had a name). Had a redesign in Melee's trophy not unlike Pit being redesigned for Brawl.
Takamaru: Sakurai mentioned that he would probably be in Smash if he had a new game. While he hasn't, he does have his guest role in Samurai Warriors 3.
Muddy Mole: Sakurai mentioned that he was very interesting of a character and joked that he may have been in Brawl's roster already when asked about him. (Obviously, he wasn't in Brawl, but there's still a shot for next go round.)
I know that I'm probably coming off negative, but picking a Pokemon based on your personal affinity towards it and the fact that it could be unique aren't solid reasons for actual consideration.
No problem and I think I've realized that today...
So I've decided to not talk about Metagross, at least for a while because I'm just too tired, and talk about characters that COULD be more likely to appear instead.
I'm gonna talk about General Guy and Shy Guys, if there's enough interest.
And I'm probably gonna leave Krusha out, unless if people wanna hear more...
Btw, Mach Rider sounds cool (haven't played the game though), but I hope he doesn't become a Cpt. Falcon clone, otherwise I'm very positive!
And who the hell is Muddy Mole?
He is. But both of them are Pokéball Pokémon in Brawl. Judging by how Charizard and the idea of a Pokémon Trainer has always been desired in smash and how Deoxys support has died over the past few years (and Metagross support has been micro-sized at best), I sincerely doubt either.
I agree. I know the chances for Deoxys now are very very small, I was just saying that if the 3rd gen does get a rep, I think he is the second most likely. Not that I think it will happen, it was just hypothetical.
Lucario ain't going anywhere. He's too popular. I mean seriously-he's a noticeable part of the Black and White 2 advertisements! Plus, he was well-received in Brawl.
And if anyone is being "cut" due to "time restraints," it will probably be Weegee Wolf. Plus even if Wolf is cut, there is always DLC!
The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to suspect that Sakurai doesn't cut characters to add a character in the same series, he has a list of all characters, and cuts those at the bottom of the list when time is running short, no matter what series they are from. And you're right about Lucario, he probably won't be cut, but I still think he would be relatively towards the bottom of Sakurai's priority list. Not last though. That probably would be Wolf. I think Sakurai will make an effort to not cut any Brawl character this time around, they were all pretty well received.
Here's the summary:
- Mewtwo should get in before Zoroark
- Zoroark would not be similar to Lucario, even if they have aesthetic similarities
- Meowth is possible but not likely
- Metagross won't get in on the basis of being unique, minorly popular, and different from what is normally done.
Depends if he is included before or after his game. Although Sakurai stating that he would only be included if he got a new game would suggest that he would not get in as a retro character.
I don't think something like Samurai Warriors or Captain Rainbow would make him count as a non-retro character though. Only a new Nazo no Murasamejou.
edit:
@Warheart
This is Muddy Mole
He had one game for Gameboy, and was created by Miyamoto. Sakurai seems to like him.
Well, I was gonna word it differently where a solo Pokemon was the base and that they got nerfed as more team members were added, but I figured that buffing them from three to one would sound more appealing. Basically, the Pokemon wouldn't be very strong in a team, but they would be on par with everyone else if they went solo. This way, they still have matchup issues like everyone else.
I just think in a "perfect" Smash Wii U/3DS with however the game plays, it would be best if each Pokémon had at least say 3-6 somewhat significant match up weaknesses.
Exactly. As much as I like the idea of using each Pokémon individually, I like fighting them as a team more. It just... "works" better, you know=??? (I can't explain it any other way)
Both of those need to go. If we really wanted Aura implemented, I think using a command taunt that could boost his attack strength (like Lucas' Offense Up in Project M) using aura would be something less clutchy.
Yeah, that would make sense (Lucas' Project M neutral B Offense Up rocks!).
Still, if say Lucario's new aura system was that he could do noticeably less damage at higher %'s, I wouldn't be totally opposed to that (although I wouldn't like it). I mean, at least that isn't punishing you for getting hit a lot. I mean, if say Marth had that, Mew2King would get no reward for doing this!
No problem smash bro. Also, note that Nintendo World in November of 2005 is when the 2nd Brawl trailer was shown. It was about 2/3rds actual gameplay-ish stuff, it showed all the different character's moves (Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby, as well as newcomers Pit, Meta Knight, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, and Snake). It also was where Fox was confirmed.
It also showed us a ton of the stages that were not shown or minimally shown in the 1st trailer (the only stages shown in 1st trailer were Battlefield, Castle Siege, and Battleship Haleberd). We got our first look at Mario Circuit, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Skyworld, and Shadow Moses Island.
Maybe Pokémon Stadium 2 as well.
A good 2nd Smash Wii U/3DS trailer I think would follow this model (of showing more locations, the confirmed characters more, and new [early] gameplay elements).
I still don't have any source articles that confirm this. If it is true, however, it still doesn't change my opinion on that. We have 2 clones of Fox, and Wolf is the expendable one.
After looking on Facebook, there are 3 most wanted retro characters for Sm4sh.
1. Duck Hunt Dog with over 1000 likes. O.O
2. Takamaru with 60 likes.
3. Balloon Fighter with 30 likes.
I mean, yes, Sakurai finds a 2nd Link to be important, but at the same time, a 2nd Link has ALWAYS been low on priority.
@John: Wolf would be an expendable clone, if he WAS a clone. He's more unique to Fox than Falco is. If anything, Falco's the expendable one, even if he has been in more games.
Hell, the only reason that Falco got in instead of Wolf as the Melee clone was because he looked different than Fox.
I just think in a "perfect" Smash Wii U/3DS with however the game plays, it would be best if each Pokémon had at least say 3-6 somewhat significant match up weaknesses.
I don't think that's necessary. Balance them individually like everyone else. The scaling will take care of any otherwise overwhelming matchups.
Exactly. As much as I like the idea of using each Pokémon individually, I like fighting them as a team more. It just... "works" better, you know=??? (I can't explain it any other way)
That's why I suggested this system. This way, everyone can choose how many they want on their Pokemon team. Everyone wins.
Still, if say Lucario's new aura system was that he could do noticeably less damage at higher %'s, I wouldn't be totally opposed to that (although I wouldn't like it). I mean, at least that isn't punishing you for getting hit a lot. I mean, if say Marth had that, Mew2King would get no reward for doing this!
The burden of being behind and being prone to losing a life should be enough of an inherent burden. Lucario losing strength is something that makes as little sense as the clutch mechanic in already.
And I think revealing content should be more like how fighting games have been doing it lately. Show us character trailers like the Special Movie per character, but make it where it appeals to all player groups. I think you'll get more mileage out of this than Brawl's approach.
I agree. I know the chances for Deoxys now are very very small, I was just saying that if the 3rd gen does get a rep, I think he is the second most likely. Not that I think it will happen, it was just hypothetical.
The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to suspect that Sakurai doesn't cut characters to add a character in the same series, he has a list of all characters, and cuts those at the bottom of the list when time is running short, no matter what series they are from. And you're right about Lucario, he probably won't be cut, but I still think he would be relatively towards the bottom of Sakurai's priority list. Not last though. That probably would be Wolf. I think Sakurai will make an effort to not cut any Brawl character this time around, they were all pretty well received.
I think the Smash Wii U/3DS development team will transfer a lot of data from Brawl and leave it as is. Maybe change some frames up (to make them look either more realistic), obviously up the graphic quality and whatnot (on the Wii U), and obviously balance the game, but not change around veteran non-clone characters too much.
I think the Brawl development team fiddled with a few veterans too much, such as Link, Jigglypuff, Samus, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon (which thus made them garbage).
No problem smash bro. Also, note that Nintendo World in November of 2005 is when the 2nd Brawl trailer was shown. It was about 2/3rds actual gameplay-ish stuff, it showed all the different character's moves (Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby, as well as newcomers Pit, Meta Knight, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, and Snake). It also was where Fox was confirmed.
I mean, yes, Sakurai finds a 2nd Link to be important, but at the same time, a 2nd Link has ALWAYS been low on priority.
@John: Wolf would be an expendable clone, if he WAS a clone. He's more unique to Fox than Falco is. If anything, Falco's the expendable one, even if he has been in more games.
Hell, the only reason that Falco got in instead of Wolf as the Melee clone was because he looked different than Fox.
returning. We ALL want 
