New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Algus Underdunk]

To me it should never be how many games a given character had, but how much fun that game was. I'll take a franchise that's comprised of one fun game vs a franchise with 10 painful to play games... I'm looking at YOU Bubsy...

 

[N3ON]

I think what people consider "fun to play" is subjective, and would vary between people. I think the most basic way of judging how fun a game is is how popular it becomes (with gamers, not casuals). It's not the best way of judging, sure, but I doubt there will ever be a unanimous consensus on the "fun factor" of any game.

Popular games then usually get sequels (not always though), and overall the amount of games in a series is often an indicator of how "fun" the general collective thinks those games are. This isn't exact though, and doesn't apply to every game series or company mentality. And games getting sequels usually are most dependent on sales, which the causal gamer influences more than the dedicated hardcore one does.

/mytwocents

 

[Deleted member]

@Wario Bros.: I totally forgot about Mii's. Adding that to contenders I would want to see.

 

[BKupa666]

I did consider voicing Samurai Goroh, but I'm not sure I can pull off a hearty Japanese-style voice.

I AM voicing an evil cloud that Ashley summons, though. Though it's just an evil laugh.

Saki has too little voiceclips, so I might voice him as well.

Spankety-spankety-spankety!

Would you consider voicing a playable K. Rool? I think your voice would be a good match for him.

 

[Big-Cat]

Kumatora I added because of her overwhelming popularity in Japan, which would fit Sakurai's criteria of making people want to play the game. More than Flint would, at least. A gloves moveset would be interesting too, but it wouldn't be as diverse as Claus or Porky.

And she could play a lot like this character. IMO, this character would fit nicely in Smash with some adjustments here and there.
[COLLAPSE="MILF"]

[/COLLAPSE]

And Falcon was apparently one of Sakurai's favorite Nintendo heroes.
That, and Sakurai was clearly a Kamen Rider fan and turned him into Kamen Rider Falcon.

Don't forget Pit going toukusatsu a number of times in Uprising.

 

[Opossum]

Wow Golden, between the nice Waluigi moveset and that awesome Porky voice, you deserve props. I couldn't help laughing at "Spankety-Spankety-Spankety."xD

Anyway, I also now really want a mech-fighter in Smash at one point. Make it happen Sakurai!

Spoiler

as if he can see this :D

Anyway, this is a bit off-topic, but Mole Mania needs a 3DS Virtual Console Release already! D:<

 

[Berserker.]

And she could play a lot like this character. IMO, this character would fit nicely in Smash with some adjustments here and there.
[COLLAPSE="MILF"]

[/COLLAPSE]

This guy should be a 3rd party character for Smash. Shame he's not that suggested (Or as expected.. Lol that rhymed).

Spoiler

So.... I heard nintendo is cooperating with tecmo to make this scary-*** game which no one probably knows.

 

[N3ON]

@Kuma

That's actually a good comparison. I agree, alot of her moves would transfer well to Smash, and it would also fit Kumatora well.

@Opossum

It really does. I never played the original (although a couple times I was pretty close to picking it up) and I'd really like to give it a play. Now that my Gameboy is super broken, this is pretty much the only way I can experience the Mania. The Mole Mania.

@berserker

I'm still upset that Fatal Frame 4 was never localized. This one's confirmed for Europe, right? That's a good start, and at least it will be in English somewhere.

 

[Berserker.]

@berserker

I'm still upset that Fatal Frame 4 was never localized. This one's confirmed for Europe, right? That's a good start, and at least it will be in English somewhere.

GASP. Someone knows.

It's not confirmed if it's being released to america. However, Japan and Europe are gonna get it. That's for sure.

 

[Deleted member]

Spankety-spankety-spankety!

Would you consider voicing a playable K. Rool? I think your voice would be a good match for him.

I did consider it, though the guys at Crusade said they might be looking for someone to sound like the DKC cartoon K. Rool.
But I did consider it, and may still try to do it, regardless of whether they want DKC cartoon voice or not.

@Opossum: Thanks, man!

 

[Johnknight1]

And Falcon was apparently one of Sakurai's favorite Nintendo heroes.
That, and Sakurai was clearly a Kamen Rider fan and turned him into Kamen Rider Falcon.

Sakurai clearly has a man crush on Captain Falcon. Then again, everybody does. Seriously, if 2 Captain Falcons did a little something-something to have a Captain Falcon baby, it wouldn't be considered "gay." It would be considered "art." That baby would be a holy being of beauty, especially it's knees of greatness that never breaks and always destroys foes. I bet that a lot of basketball players wish they had knees that were that reliable!

So.... I heard nintendo is cooperating with tecmo to make this scary-*** game which no one probably knows.

Is it wrong that even with that description I was hoping for a Tecmo NFL Super Bowl sequel with actual new NFL rosters plus the old ones=???
Me wants to play as the 89' 49ers against the 91' Redskins, and the 90' Giants against the '12 Giants.
Also, Temco Bo FTW! If you don't know, you don't know.

 

[N3ON]

GASP. Someone knows.

It's not confirmed if it's being released to america. However, Japan and Europe are gonna get it. That's for sure.

I don't have a European Wii, so I might have to import this one from Japan like I did with FF4.
That or just dust off my PS2 version of FF2.

Wait, does this mean there might be Fatal Frame representation (like trophies and stuff -- not a character) in SSB4? I'm not gonna lie, I'd love that.

 

[Johnknight1]

Tecmo Bo is broken.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Toad and Bowser Jr.

Was the troll really necessary? They're pretty much the best possible candidates for the Super Mario series.

Anyway, if anyone is wondering about my new avatar, I'm mostly seeing the Magikoopa as an Assist Trophy, and/or an Adventure Mode enemy.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Kuma

That's actually a good comparison. I agree, alot of her moves would transfer well to Smash, and it would also fit Kumatora well.

Personally, I think, save for the whole lack of traditional blocking in Smash, she and El Fuerte were the most Smash Bros. like characters in their playstyles in Street Fighter IV. Hell, how I play Fuerte has Melee written all over it.

I made a moveset for her a while back.
B: PK Fire
Kumatora does a motion with her fists comparable to Mai Shiranui's Ryuuenbu. This can be done in the air where Kumatora can alter her trajectory. Hold down on usage to cancel her momentum. Press B on startup to use as a feint.

Side B: PK Freeze
Her projectile, but not exactly a projectile. This attack is essentially a far range, disjointed poking move.

Down B: PK Ground
Kumatora does a punch to the ground and causes a seismo wave to appear in front of her, acting as a grounded projectile. The projectile is quick moving, about the speed of Falco's laser, and travels accross the entire stage until it hits an edge. This move can be feinted on startup. When the attack lands, the opponent is knocked up, left open to a juggle combo. Recovery is not very nice when whiffed.

Up B: PK Thunder
A different take on PK Thunder than in the past. Kumatora snaps her fingers and a thundercloud is formed. Press up B again to activate the lightning strike. When the lightning hits Kumatora, she essentially has a controllable PK Thunder 2. To bypass the placement, hold B as Kumatora does the snapping.

Playstyle: Kumatora is an unpredictable character with excellent jumps and many options to attack from all sorts of angles. Her PK Ground is vital in her playstyle so as to counter camping and/or to combo into her more damaging combos. PK Fire is to deal damage for tech chases, PK Ground followups, or to get a feel for the opponent. PK Freeze is her best poke when needing to play it safe. PK Thunder is a mine of a tool and a much improved PK Thunder from past games.

She has a fairly safe aerial game, but it's also low reward as well. Her big sources of damage come from her high risk, high reward ground game.

Sources of inspiration: C. Viper from Street Fighter IV with elements of Mai (animation for PK Fire), Yuri (PK Freeze), and Benimaru (PK Thunder) from King of Fighters.

 

[Deleted member]

@berserker01: You're not alone in wanting Ryu Hayabusa in Smash. I think that he would be awesome to see in Smash and I believe SSBCandidates gave a solid move set of him. Unfortunately, he has little to no chance since very few people want him in and that he's third-party.

 

[Johnknight1]

Ryu Hayabusa was the main characters of one of the best games on the NES (Ninja Gaiden). I would love to see some elements of Ninja Gaiden in Smash.

Another excellent choice of Nintendo 3rd party characters from the NES/SNES days is, of course, mai boi Simon Belmont. DAT WHIP!!!

Also, Battle Toads and Earthworm Jim.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Agreed about those being the best candidates, well, Toad and Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario, IMO.

After that, is no order, Paper Mario, Dr. Mario(returning), and Waluigi.

Geno falls behind due to being fairly hard to get.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

This in Smash 4 please.

Please. For those who haven't played Uprising yet and like spoilers:

Spoiler

Pit's soul is trapped in a ring by the Chaos Kin, and he is able to control whoever bears the ring. A little girl finds it, and Pit walks toward a town being ravaged by a rouge Skyworld Army to this song.

I dunno why, this song is just really powerful to me. Especially given the context in which it plays.

 

[Johnknight1]

Agreed about those being the best candidates, well, Toad and Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario, IMO.

After that, is no order, Paper Mario, Dr. Mario(returning), and Waluigi.

Geno falls behind due to being fairly hard to get.

Wart seems like a great "overlooked" retro character in my eyes.

Birdo kind of fits in that category as well. However, Birdo has had constant appearances in Mario spin-offs, which makes Birdo more well-known (naturally) than Wart, and thus not as overlooked. However, I do think it wouldn't be surprising if Birdo was considered at some point. Although I would be surprised if Birdo was playable, just like everyone else!

 

[yani]

Kamek would be a cool AT

 

[Berserker.]

Toad would be a very effective hit and run type character. He hits hard; however, he is very fragile and can be defeated easily if not trained properly. We have very few lightweight characters in Smash who are both speedy and power, so I believe Toad would be a great character who can make as a superior Pichu from Melee. Toad will not hurt himself; however, he will make a combination of Pichu's slightly stronger moves and speed into gameplay. Toad can introduce many new concepts into Smash as well. I believe Toad can introduce mid-air grabs and throws into Smash as he is known for picking up, carrying, and throwing objects and enemies in the three notable games he has been playable in (SMB2, NSMB Wii, WW). Toad can also bring in power-up moves from NSMB Wii, and as well as skills such as running up walls which he performed in Wario's Woods. Not to mention that Toad also has the spin-offs to look for as well. Toad can also get uniquely made moves just for him in Smash (mushroom/spore attacks?). He already had an invented one for Brawl (spore counter move), and the fact that all the Mario characters in Brawl also have made-up moves can also allow Toad to get his own uniquely made-up moves based on his properties.

I'm liking this description of Toad. Playing as him requires high execution because one mistake would really hurt Toad. It totally fits for him since he was quite hard to use in SMB 2 since his jumping ability is horrible and he's usually classified as a technical/speedy character in Mario spin offs.

He also seems to move away from the typical lightweight type. He's not fast and weak. He's fast and quite strong at the same time. Although, this is making him sound overpowered. His disadvantages should probably be his feather weight, poor range and poor jumping ability.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Kamek would be a cool AT

He'd be more cool playable.

We need a real spellcaster in Smash. Not what is basically a Monk(Zelda, Ganondorf, Peach, and technically Captain Falcon. Some others may apply) instead.

 

[Rosalina suporter]

He'd be more cool playable.

We need a real spellcaster in Smash. Not what is basically a Monk(Zelda, Ganondorf, Peach, and technically Captain Falcon. Some others may apply) instead.

Like Rosalina? She can do magic.

 

[N3ON]

Personally, I think, save for the whole lack of traditional blocking in Smash, she and El Fuerte were the most Smash Bros. like characters in their playstyles in Street Fighter IV. Hell, how I play Fuerte has Melee written all over it.

It's interesting how most of the new character movesets added in the different iterations of SF4 (save Abel) seem like, how due to their comparably more eccentric movesets, would transfer fairly well to Smash. Off the top of my head I can think of moves C. Viper, El Fuerte, Rufus, Juri, and even Hakan do that would also work well in Smash. (I haven't played as Oni yet).

Good moveset also. I haven't played alot of KoF, but after re-acquainting myself with some of the characters, it seems to make pretty good sense.


And I might be missing something, but how are Peach and Captain Falcon monks?

 

[Deleted member]

We need a real American in Smash, so yes, Rufus for Smash 4.

Don't touch his popcorn.

 

[N3ON]

I shudder to think how long his taunts would last.

 

[Johnknight1]

That guy is not fat enough to be an American. TRY AGAIN!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lol @ John.

What's good?

 

[Deleted member]

That guy is not fat enough to be an American. TRY AGAIN!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah, no Rosalina. I'd rather rep other series. Rosalina is cool and all, but there's other magic users.

You know, the OTHER Mario-related series? Or Fire Emblem. Or another new series.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's true. Ganondorf, Sheik, and Ice Climbers were all one-offs when they got into Melee.

...Plenty is an overstatement, though.

You mean this has changed regarding Sheik?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Time out from fatties for a second:

I liked the idea of having Toadsworth. But am rather worried about that Sakurai comment that he doesn't see Toad as fighting material. :/

That was proven false a long time ago, stop bringing it up.

Then why did Toise say it was true.

And why does it sound like an uncomfortable truth that Toad supporters don't want to believe.

I never did, so who knows.

Here's stuff I actually did say about Toad though:

[COLLAPSE="oh yes"]

Wow, I want another core Mario character and I was hoping it'd be Bowser's son. In this series' case I feel that its complete like Zelda's but there's room for 1 more (with 2...interesting choices), and I don't have a logical reason why in this case. Its a want vs. need thing; it (probably) doesn't need another but I want another.

@Bernie: That's how I assume most people feel, and I'm sure it has to do with how prominent Mario is in general. Everyone's used to these big ensembles, so it can be a little weird to see this series seemingly get less exposure here (I say "seemingly" since, characters aside, there's way more Mario content than anything else).

At work I'm having to stare at the new Nintendo merchandise we have just put on the shelves for the holiday season. Guess who are the four primary characters? Mario, Luigi, Yoshi and Toad. Toad has been a consistent face and species in the series, close to that of Yoshi.

So if we are to see any Mario characters I would expect it too be him.

This is the one where I disagree with you (for once). I think Toad is a very good contender. To say he is not a major character is wrong. He has been a big player since at the latest, Super Mario Brothers 2. He is a staple in Mario Kart and appears in many titles, including New Super Mario Bros Wii.

@Star/Chu: Toad IS a supporting character. Very prominent, especially considering which series he belongs to, but definitely has a supporting role compared to the other five (or four, Yoshi's a very unique case). This is non-negotiable. Not necessarily a good reason to exclude him, but non-negotiable regardless.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Toad (or even Jr.) isn't important, but that Sakurai seems to think these two aren't really as necessary as playable characters. Whether that's because he's not interested in them individually or because he feels they make a good cutoff point, who knows. Frankly, I don't think he'd be in the wrong whether he included them or not. It's a fairly flexible situation.

You mentioned that he wasn't in Melee or Brawl and wouldn't get in now if he wasn't in then. I think it's wrong to think that. We had to wait three games to get Diddy, Wario and Dedede (the latter was even planned during 64). A character missing out on a game isn't a new thing. It's happened all the time. But why the change now you may ask. Toad went dark in the late N64 to the Gamecube days. What put him back on the map was the success of New Super Mario Bros Wii. After that, we was the only new character featured in Mario Sports Mix and was also in Wii Chase (or was it Mii).I think if he has a shot, it's now.

Two things:

-- We could use the "there's always next time" line in regards to any character, and in most situations, I'd agree with you. The real difference here is that it's Mario, one of the few series Sakurai has zero qualms with cramming full of content and characters. Why stop at Toad unless he didn't want to add the guy? What about the lack of evidence that Sakurai has ever cared about making him playable?
-- Saying Toad wasn't as big around 1999-2009 or so is revisionist horsecrap; the guy's always been both prominent and popular. And no, none of those games you mentioned change anything for him, not even NSMBWii.

Toise why do you think NSMBWii hasn't changed anything for Toad? I agree with you, I just want to see if you have the same reasoning?

A) Toad's always gotten tons of exposure, playable or not
B) It's another game where he has the same powers as Mario and Luigi

It's very rare that a single game actually means something for a character. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Ocarina of Time (defined Ganon as a human) and presumably Punch-Out Wii (assuming Mac was in the same situation as Takamaru, and I don't see why not).

On another note, people talk about character's chances like it's the ****ing stock market. "Oh, new game? This raises his chances!" "But he hasn't been playable in like 3 years!" Smash nerds might live in some goldfish memory bubble, but Sakurai doesn't.[/COLLAPSE]

5-year-old neighbor keeps bugging me for one of the two Toad plushies on my bookcase.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You mean this has changed regarding Sheik?

Yes. Sheik is technically in more than one game. Even if those are all remakes/whatever of OOT.

Why? Other than the GCN and VC release of OOT.(the regular OOT on the Master Quest disc and the Zelda Collection), the others are considered separate versions as they're not just the same game.

So she has 3 different non-Smash games under her belt.

So she's no longer a true one-off, unlike Ice Climbers, who have yet to appear in anything but a port(outside of Smash).

But let's get to what we agree on, Toon Ganondorf for Smash.

 

[N3ON]

You mean this has changed regarding Sheik?

Yes, as much as it has changed for Ice Climbers.

Ganondorf (if he counts as a one-off) has been the only one-off character to make additional appearances other than in Smash.
Although I guess Roy has now too.

edit: Not counting re-releases/remakes.

 

[Berserker.]

Time out from fatties for a second:







I never did, so who knows.

Here's stuff I actually did say about Toad though:

[COLLAPSE="oh yes"]

@Bernie: That's how I assume most people feel, and I'm sure it has to do with how prominent Mario is in general. Everyone's used to these big ensembles, so it can be a little weird to see this series seemingly get less exposure here (I say "seemingly" since, characters aside, there's way more Mario content than anything else).






@Star/Chu: Toad IS a supporting character. Very prominent, especially considering which series he belongs to, but definitely has a supporting role compared to the other five (or four, Yoshi's a very unique case). This is non-negotiable. Not necessarily a good reason to exclude him, but non-negotiable regardless.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Toad (or even Jr.) isn't important, but that Sakurai seems to think these two aren't really as necessary as playable characters. Whether that's because he's not interested in them individually or because he feels they make a good cutoff point, who knows. Frankly, I don't think he'd be in the wrong whether he included them or not. It's a fairly flexible situation.




Two things:

-- We could use the "there's always next time" line in regards to any character, and in most situations, I'd agree with you. The real difference here is that it's Mario, one of the few series Sakurai has zero qualms with cramming full of content and characters. Why stop at Toad unless he didn't want to add the guy? What about the lack of evidence that Sakurai has ever cared about making him playable?
-- Saying Toad wasn't as big around 1999-2009 or so is revisionist horsecrap; the guy's always been both prominent and popular. And no, none of those games you mentioned change anything for him, not even NSMBWii.




A) Toad's always gotten tons of exposure, playable or not
B) It's another game where he has the same powers as Mario and Luigi

It's very rare that a single game actually means something for a character. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Ocarina of Time (defined Ganon as a human) and presumably Punch-Out Wii (assuming Mac was in the same situation as Takamaru, and I don't see why not).

On another note, people talk about character's chances like it's the ****ing stock market. "Oh, new game? This raises his chances!" "But he hasn't been playable in like 3 years!" Smash nerds might live in some goldfish memory bubble, but Sakurai doesn't.[/COLLAPSE]

5-year-old neighbor keeps bugging me for one of the two Toad plushies on my bookcase.

I can't say anything regarding how unnecessary Toad is since the Mario series is perfectly represented. Anyway, good and rational post about Toad.

Do you think representation will be a problem in Smash 4? I'm having this theory that the brawl roster already is a great representation of nintendo. Maybe Sakurai will focus more on the retro/new franchises (Like what he said) or add the characters fans we're blabbering about. What do you think?

Edit: The only characters missing in the roster are Ridley and K. Rool. Other than that, it's pretty complete. Of course, we'll expect a newcomer from the pokemon and fire emblem series.

 

[---]

So the rumor is false and everyone still has their own opinions about Toad. Done.

@Beserker: That would make sense, I'm too lazy to find a link, but Sakurai did say that the next game wouldn't concentrate on newcomers like previous entries in the series.

 

[Oasis_S]

You should feel embarrassed, Oasis.

Also I finally got Uprising. But my hand already hurts from writing so I think to start playing that now would just make it worst.

Not that I'm not Strong or anything.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I kinda wanted Toad playable since Melee's Adventure Mode :/ he seemed to want to copy Luigi's dash attack lol

Disagreeing with HyperFalcon about Sheik. I don't count remakes as a full appearance. Especially since OOT gets ported every 2 or 3 years or so

Oasis you're not strong you little girl

 

[Berserker.]

You should feel embarrassed, Oasis.

Also I finally got Uprising. But my hand already hurts from writing so I think to start playing that now would just make it worst.

Not that I'm not Strong or anything.

Whoa.... Are you talking to yourself ._.

You are one Strange dude