New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

There's still the fact that Golden Sun was a newer, unrepped series, and Sakurai didn't seem to find it "worthy" of having a character like he did for Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Coincidentally Waluigi and Saki Amamiya are the only Nintendo Assist Trophies Sakurai teases about not being playable, or wishing to be playable. Not that it really matters much, but seeing him trolling is pretty funny.

Actually, it says a lot. It also means they're viable contenders by Sakurai' own words for SSB4.

...Whether Waluigi makes it or not doesn't bother me. Is he likely? Well... yes. I wouldn't put him on a high list, though.

Saki, I hope gets in. Same with Isaac.

I kind of doubt the 3rd Party AT's unless Sakurai allows more than one of any series/company 3rd party-wise. Grey Fox looks interesting, although I'd still take Tails or Knuckles over Shadow.(even though I like Shadow as a character more, I think they're personally more deserving for Smash. Completely IMO. And no, before somebody says something about clones, they all started off as Sonic clones anyway. )

GY: Very true. But I don't think it was as overall popular as AC or Pikmin, so perhaps it was considered "lower" on the possibilities?

 

[Arcadenik]

There's still the fact that Golden Sun was a newer, unrepped series, and Sakurai didn't seem to find it "worthy" of having a character like he did for Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

Maybe it's because Golden Sun was on the GBA while Pikmin was on the Gamecube. Pikmin 1 and 2 most likely sold more copies than Golden Sun 1 and 2. I think it made Olimar more "worthy" of an addition when compared to Isaac.

[COLLAPSE="My post from the last page"]

So, I was just looking at the Nintendo franchises that have playable characters in all three games. It does seem that franchises that are of the 2D platformer genre are more likely to get characters than franchises in the other genres. The second most likely genre to get more characters is the RPG genre. The RPG genre seems to be more likely to get clones than the 2D platformer genre.

2D platformer genre - 18 characters (1 clone)
- Mario (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario)
- Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong)
- Metroid (Samus, Zero Suit Samus)
- Yoshi (Yoshi)
- Kirby (Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede)
- Ice Climber (Ice Climbers)
- Game & Watch (Mr. Game & Watch)
- Kid Icarus (Pit)
- Wario (Wario)
- R.O.B. (R.O.B.)

RPG / Strategy genre - 20 characters (6 clones)
- Zelda (Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Young Link, Toon Link)
- Pokemon (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pichu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucario)
- Mother (Ness, Lucas)
- Fire Emblem (Marth, Roy, Ike)
- Pikmin (Olimar)

Shooting genre - 3 characters (2 clones)
- Star Fox (Fox, Falco, Wolf)

Racing genre - 1 character
- F-Zero (Captain Falcon)

I also noticed that franchises that debuted on the home systems (NES, SNES, etc.) are more likely to get characters than franchises that debuted on the portable systems (GB, GBA, etc.)

Franchises that debuted on the home systems
- Mario
- Donkey Kong
- Zelda
- Metroid
- Yoshi
- Star Fox
- F-Zero
- Mother
- Ice Climber
- Fire Emblem
- Kid Icarus
- Pikmin
- R.O.B.

Franchises that debuted on the portable systems
- Kirby
- Pokemon
- Game & Watch
- Wario

Based on these findings... if we go by genre, then Starfy beats Isaac and Isaac beats Saki. If we go by sytems, then Saki beats Starfy and Starfy beats Isaac. I think that in order for a franchise that debuted on a portable system to get a character, that franchise needs to be notable and succesful to justify a character. In my opinion, I think Starfy would be a better choice in the long run. Starfy series was fairly more successful than Sin & Punishment series and Golden Sun series since it had 5 games whereas the other two had 2 and 3 games, respectively. I do think that would justify Starfy's inclusion over Isaac or Saki. It also helps that Starfy's genre is a 2D platformer and it would make it easier for Sakurai to visualize how Starfy would work in Smash.

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Metal Overlord]

IF we were to ever get a second Sonic character (which is extremely unlikely), it would most likely be Tails

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Ohhh haha I said I like WHITE hair, and those look like sunglasses! XD If I liked those two things I would be Shortie all over Oasis.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

There's still the fact that Golden Sun was a newer, unrepped series, and Sakurai didn't seem to find it "worthy" of having a character like he did for Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

I still call it, I kinda think Assist Trophies are like a big middle finger to the unrepped and good series of Smash by Sakurai or some other fella who came up with that concept.
Why reduce potential characters as Pokeballs...

He just thinks that Nintendo EAD' series are only worth of new reps...because they always make the most popular games. Will this carry on to Smash Bros 4 as well? A roster based on sales and signifance in Nintendo's marketing?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

IF we were to ever get a second Sonic character (which is extremely unlikely), it would most likely be Tails

I actually disagree with this. Not that he isn't a possibility, but they all have uniqueness going for them already.

The real question is who is the most popular. I'm not so sure Tails fits that criteria. Likewise, looking at what Sega and Sonic Team have been doing, that just don't want him being important compared to the others. So even with Sakurai's preference, I highly doubt he's the most likely because of all the factors.

Best choice? I'd say yes. Most likely? Nah.

 

[Mypantisgone]

Ohhh haha I said I like WHITE hair, and those look like sunglasses! XD If I liked those two things I would be Shortie all over Oasis.

I swear the image showed glasses but the glass couldn't be tranparant.
And the witches have white hair,it's just the light in the game.

 

[Starphoenix]

Well, that was just for Brawl, though, maybe he might reconsider some of the AT characters as playable characters for Smash 4

Depends upon the circumstances on why they were not followed through with. With Saki it is pretty easy to understand why he did not become playable, despite his popularity. However, at least in his case, I think he favors much better now than then, and has a chance at "upgrading his position", so to speak. I think Sin and Punishment: Star Successor really helps him, because despite the performance the fact that there has been a new Sin and Punishment game since Brawl will be something he'll notice. Factor into that that Saki has more exposure now then previously, and with a field lacking of viable characters his votes could sky rocket pass what they were pre-Brawl.

Just my theory. I have a lot of theories about the AT's.

There's still the fact that Golden Sun was a newer, unrepped series, and Sakurai didn't seem to find it "worthy" of having a character like he did for Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

Good point.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I still call it, I kinda think Assist Trophies are like a big middle finger to the unrepped and good series of Smash by Sakurai or some other fella who came up with that concept.
Why reduce potential characters as Pokeballs...

He just thinks that Nintendo EAD' series are only worth of new reps... will this carry on to Smash Bros 4 as well?

Unfortunately, this seems to be the attitude of many fans, too. I can't tell you how often I hear that Brawl was a perfect pool of Nintendo characters, and that any further additions would be largely unnecessary. Which is stupid. Really stupid.

You've got franchises out there that are great, and would absolutely work in Smash with playable characters. Lots of the ones being talked about now (S&P, Starfy, Golden Sun) are looked down upon because they aren't huge, blockbusting, million-sellers.

Then you've got the "doesn't fit the fighting atomosphere" bullsh*t, which takes lots of potentially cool characters out of the running (Chibi Robo, Animal Crossing, Rhythm Heaven, Elite Beat Agents, Several Retros). Don't even get me started on that. I think it's awesome that Parappa the Rapper is going to be in PAS, and if such a character owned by Nintendo were suggested for Smash, it'd be scoffed at for not fitting the goddamned, so-called feel of the game.

And then there are just characters like Jill from Drill Dozer who- *stabbed*

 

[Arcadenik]

I still call it, I kinda think Assist Trophies are like a big middle finger to the unrepped and good series of Smash by Sakurai or some other fella who came up with that concept.
Why reduce potential characters as Pokeballs...

He just thinks that Nintendo EAD' series are only worth of new reps...because they always make the most popular games. Will this carry on to Smash Bros 4 as well? A roster based on sales and signifance in Nintendo's marketing?

Actually, I think it's a bit of this and partially due to Sakurai's bias. Sakurai used to work for HAL Laboratory before he found his own company, Sora. HAL Laboratory worked on Kirby and Mother games so now we have Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Ness, and Lucas. Intelligent Systems worked on Fire Emblem games and Sakurai is a fan of these games so now Marth, Ike, and Roy were playable. Pokemon Company is a second-party company but it makes lots of money for Nintendo so we had a total of 8 playable Pokemon in Smash history so far.

 

[Oasis_S]

Don't lump Chibi-Robo into that group of losers.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Rhythm Heaven = Chibi Robo = Animal Crossing. In terms of awesomeness and "atmospheres contrary to a fighting game."

Boom.

 

[Oasis_S]

CLEANING IS A BATTLE LIKE NO OTHER, YOU SHUT YOUR BIG GRAINY MANDIBLEScaps.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@HyperFalcon- I just feel like Tails has the most going for him. I mean, he's Sonic's sidekick and he's been in since Sonic 2

I would personally prefer Knuckles or E-102 () though

 

[Oasis_S]

Also you're just upset that Tom Nook is a stupid idea.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

But you're just upset that Chibi Robo would have to plug himself in every thirty seconds to keep fighting, whereas Tom Nook would be swingin' his big ol' bags of Bells around KOing errbody.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@HyperFalcon- I just feel like Tails has the most going for him. I mean, he's Sonic's sidekick and he's been in since Sonic 2

I would personally prefer Knuckles or E-102 () though

That's in terms of role, though. As I said, I agree he's awesome, but not that he's likely Smash-wise.

Shadow, as of now, is currently the most likely due to being one step below playable(AT or Boss). He has actual full movement and some kind of move. Same with Samurai Goroh, etc.

I think Knuckles would be the best choice uniqueness-wise. I think I posted my moveset a long time ago, but a dig move is awesome.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sakurai best be trolling about Waluigi or I will be furious, outraged, and sick with anger! Saki is okay, though.

Waluigi would be an amusing addition to the roster. But right now, he's not exactly worthy enough for that kind of spot.

Regarding the Chibi-Robo talk, I do think that he might work out as a playable, if done right of course.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Breadbug, you're not alone though, I really love Drill Dozer too. But it being a oneshot game which never seemingly will see sequel gets me so worried...

And it still makes me sad that only the most dedicated fans of Nintendo are willing to dig through the history behind the lesser material than the characters and stages, like playing the games AT's come from and whatnot.

 

[Oasis_S]

But you're just upset that Chibi Robo would have to plug himself in every thirty seconds to keep fighting, whereas Tom Nook would be swingin' his big ol' bags of Bells around KOing errbody.

I DUNNO, I GUESS IF YOU WERE WEAK AND DIDN'T EARN THE INFINITE POWER SUPPLY THEN YOU MIGHT THINK THAT. AND SINCE WHEN DID NOOK SWING BELLS AROUND. IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, HE STOOD AROUND DOING NOTHING THE WHOLE TIME, EXCEPT OCCASIONALLY FEELING MOPEY. OH, HE ALSO FOLLOWED YOU AROUND THE STORE LIKE A STALKER. SOUNDS LIKE A NEUTRAL SPECIALcaps.

 

[Starphoenix]

Rhythm Heaven = Chibi Robo = Animal Crossing. In terms of awesomeness and "atmospheres contrary to a fighting game."

Boom.

Actually I do not see how either of the first two series inherit the same problem as Animal Crossing? Chibi Robo at least has action elements in it, Animal Crossing does not. Same thing with Rhythm Heaven, the only issue that series has is no clear popular character.

 

[Arcadenik]

Breadbug, you're not alone though, I really love Drill Dozer too. But it being a oneshot game which never seemingly will see sequel gets me so worried...

I am guessing Jill Dozer's best chance of appearing in Smash is maybe in Smash 5 or 6 when she's classified as a retro character by then.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Nobody knows what Tom Nook does when left on his own. Plus, he's constantly renovating houses and his store by himself, so he has to be (I've never done this before, tee hee) strong.

@Star Atmosphere. That's the argument tossed around by any number of people who make the case. That Animal Crossing has a peaceful atmosphere. Plan B for those people is stating that there's not actual fighting. Rhythm Heaven has an atmosphere unbecoming a Smash character, as does Chibi Robo. The action elements in Chibi Robo aren't significant enough for it to out-"tough" those other series' atmospheres. In none of those games is the presentation focused on whatever one wishes to constitute action or violence as.

But I suppose I should revise that equation as: Chibi Robo > Rhythm Heaven > Animal Crossing in terms of "action" present, but not atmosphere.

But really, I think characters from all three franchises would be awesome. I love all three series, and it bums me out that they'll likely get shafted because of this idea that they're too peaceful for Smash.

And Jill- *explodes*

 

[Arcadenik]

Glee Club from Rhythm Heaven would make a fine Assist Trophy, right? Someone from this thread came up with the idea and I liked it a lot.

 

[Starphoenix]

@Star Atmosphere. That's the argument tossed around by any number of people who make the case. That Animal Crossing has a peaceful atmosphere. Plan B for those people is stating that there's not actual fighting. Rhythm Heaven has an atmosphere unbecoming a Smash character, as does Chibi Robo. The action elements in Chibi Robo aren't significant enough for it to out-"tough" those other series' atmospheres. In none of those games is the presentation focused on whatever one wishes to constitute action or violence as.

But I suppose I should revise that equation as: Chibi Robo > Rhythm Heaven > Animal Crossing in terms of "action" present, but not atmosphere.

But really, I think characters from all three franchises would be awesome. I love all three series, and it bums me out that they'll likely get shafted because of this idea that they're too peaceful for Smash.

And Jill- *explodes*

I would not exactly consider the Game and Watch series "tough", but he is on. Neither would I say the same for R.O.B or Ice Climbers. I get why Sakurai said what he did for Animal Crossing, because it is the truth. As interesting as a character might be it is completely contrary to the nature of the game. Unlike Capcom Sakurai does care about being faithful to each series represented in the game.

It is not good to apply something he said in the context of the Animal Crossing (and Nintendog series) and apply it beyond that.

 

[Oasis_S]

contrary

There's the word.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

*Gives a Starman to Breadbug*

I got too angry for Nintendo for not remixing actual Skyworld from KI so went off to find a rearranged one.

Yahoo for this album!

It's like Samus and Pit got together with da Hip Tanaka for some 8-bit ownage.

Chibi-Robo would be maybe nice, Skip Ltd. would finally get some recognition from Nintendo too, ya know.

Rhythm Heaven though is best fit as a franchise with no rep but instead a stage and other stuff like AC has.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I would not exactly consider the Game and Watch series "tough", but he is on. Neither would I say the same for R.O.B or Ice Climbers. I get why Sakurai said what he did for Animal Crossing, because it is the truth. As interesting as a character might be it is completely contrary nature to the nature of the game. Unlike Capcom Sakurai does care about being faithful to each series represented in the game.

It is not good to apply something he said in the context of the Animal Crossing (and Nintendog series) and apply it beyond that.

I fail to see how what he has said about AC does not apply to both characters that you mentioned that have already appeared and potential newcomers.

The "nature of the game" isn't "let's throw a bunch of characters that are good at fighting into a ring." It's a Nintendo Carnival (Sakurai's words) that celebrates the best of the company. The highest honor is to receive a playable character, and Animal Crossing deserves one. I don't care who or how it's implemented, but it doesn't need to be barred because it's "completely contrary to the nature of the game."

The only, only, reason retros get considered/included is because they serve as important icons to Nintendo. They are contrary to the nature of the game, but they're integral to the company. Same for AC and other series that are similar.

 

[Arcadenik]

Skip Ltd.? Well, in my opinion, I would like Captain Rainbow as a playable character and/or an Art Style stage, maybe based on PiCTOBiTS.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Nintendo is just now releasing New Play Control: Pikmin 2 later this year in America. It took so long because of copyright infringement in the game's banners. The first thing that comes to mind is that Duracell Battery treasure. -_-

 

[Oasis_S]

Hey now, Ice Climbers only got in because they were more interesting than all the other boring retro characters which Mach Rider is certainly not a part of.

 

[Arcadenik]

Hey now, Ice Climbers only got in because they were more interesting than all the other boring retro characters which Mach Rider is certainly not a part of.

Hey, he didn't say anything about Duck Hunt Dog either.

 

[Deleted member]

Rhythm Heaven has Karate Joe, who has been in all three games of the series, and can clearly "fit" in a violent atmosphere.

He could even be more of a rhythm based character to represent where he came from.
Think Marth's Dancing Blade or Roy's Double-Edge Dance, but for more moves.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Face it people, almost all of the retros and all AC characters would suck in Smash Brothers. Don't be afraid of the truth, it is your friend.

 

[Arcadenik]

Rhythm Heaven has Karate Joe, who has been in all three games of the series, and can clearly "fit" in a violent atmosphere.

He could even be more of a rhythm based character to represent where he came from.
Think Marth's Dancing Blade or Roy's Double-Edge Dance, but for more moves.

I honestly think fans would rather have Ryu over Karate Joe if they are going to get a martial arts fighter in a white karate gi. More moveset potential than Karate Joe, too.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Holder: Mach Rider wants to talk with ya.

(-l3L-)

 

[Oasis_S]

Holder: Mach Rider wants to talk with ya.

(-l3L-)

And Takamaru. BD


I think maybe Tom Nook supporters are furries, kind of like Krystal supporters, because they support bad ideas over more obvious, GOOD ideas like the Villager or no new Star Fox character at all.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Young Grasshopper Horsetail, Mach Rider doesn't have anything to say to me. He's boring as ****.

Takamaru can work, which is why I said "almost all". But all of these retros you guys talk about... Why can't you guys think like me? It is positively frustrating.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly think fans would rather have Ryu over Karate Joe if they are going to get a martial arts fighter in a white karate gi. More moveset potential than Karate Joe, too.

Ryu is boring as Hell, has a bland personality that is only slightly above Krystal's, and is in too many games already. Oh, and he'd be a Mario clone. And he's not Mega Man.

And to be honest, the "potential" is lost, as we already know what Ryu can do, as he does it every game he's in. His "potential" is tapped out. As for Karate Joe, an actual Nintendo character, his potential has yet to be tapped into. Especially at the fact he'd be more of a Rhythm based fighter than a traditional fighter like Ryu.

EDIT: And I'm sure people would rather have Amaterasu over Mr. Peepers if they are going to get a dog. More moveset potential than Mr. Peepers, too.