New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Xhampi]

Bowser Jr. is by far a more likely inclusion than Toad simply -because- of his ability to use a cloned moveset. You can't honestly tell me he's unlikely for being similar to Bowser...if that was the case, no way would Wolf or Toon Link have appeared in Brawl.

In that case let's take Waluigi and let's make a clone of Luigi

 

[Shorts]

If you guys want to kill Tingle, it's pretty easy.

Tingle is essentially Balloon fighter in many ways, and Sakurai may view him that way. Sakurai gave up on Balloon Fighter for a reason during Melee. Why would he add Balloon Fighter 2.0?

OF COURSE, you could easily bring up Arcade's point about RECONSIDERING and all that jazz. But, hate base, not the way to kill a character.. because Sakurai just don't see it.

Yeah, sadly I think you might be right. I hope Sakurai does not go the lazy route and hold off on adding a Mario newcomer until the last minute and just throw in Bowser Jr., at least it would be better than getting Dr. Mario again, instead of taking the time and resources to actually build an unique character from the ground up like Toad ahead of time. I mean, I just don't want to see another character who looks like Mario or Bowser. I want a Mario newcomer who doesn't look anything like the ones we already have. And IMO, I think Toad fits that mold the best.

This is why I'm not letting "HE CULD BE A KLONE" be an actual reason for a cut.. becauseeee anyone can be, or not be a clone. Even Jesus Toad can be a clone. (From what Sakurai sees in him, it's unlikely, yes, but possible)

 

[Arcadenik]

Bowser Jr. is by far a more likely inclusion than Toad simply -because- of his ability to use a cloned moveset. You can't honestly tell me he's unlikely for being similar to Bowser...if that was the case, no way would Wolf or Toon Link have appeared in Brawl.

Yeah, sadly I think you might be right. I hope Sakurai does not go the lazy route and hold off on adding a Mario newcomer until the last minute and just throw in Bowser Jr., at least it would be better than getting Dr. Mario again, instead of taking the time and resources to actually build an unique character from the ground up like Toad ahead of time. I mean, I just don't want to see another character who looks like Mario or Bowser. I want a Mario newcomer who doesn't look anything like the ones we already have. And IMO, I think Toad fits that mold the best.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I agree with Smash Fan

I no like cutting

 

[Arcadenik]

If you guys want to kill Tingle, it's pretty easy.

Tingle is essentially Balloon fighter in many ways, and Sakurai may view him that way. Sakurai gave up on Balloon Fighter for a reason during Melee. Why would he add Balloon Fighter 2.0?

OF COURSE, you could easily bring up Arcade's point about RECONSIDERING and all that jazz. But, hate base, not the way to kill a character.. because Sakurai just don't see it.

Well, unlike Tingle.... the Balloon Fighter is pretty much useless without the balloons. Once they pop, he falls into the sea. He doesn't even land on the ground to pump the balloons like Alice the Balloon Kid does. At least Tingle has already shown he could fight without the balloons so in my mind's eye, I could see Tingle as the Jigglypuff of the Zelda series.... his balloon would appear out of his backpack every time he floats like Jigglypuff.

 

[Shorts]

Okay, I would like from everyone, a small list of who they want cut/added. With a few sentences explaining WHY. You have the next 15 minutes to get your cut/add votes in to me in time. Thank you~

 

[Lukingordex]

Bowser Jr. is just a perfect character to have a good moveset for smash.

I don´t know why some people do not support him.

 

[BirthNote]

Last time I checked, this isn't about realism, it's about what SHOULD happen. And what should happen is every Brawl character return. Assuming we get 53 characters, that means we would have room for fourteen newcomers (which is a lot, especially with us reaching the point where Sakurai may not be able to add much more before having to refresh it entirely).

Are you sure? I read the rules again and this really stands out to me:

There has to be cuts because I know we would like all these characters to be in, but let's be realistic.

We have to be realistic and decide what should happen. Do we all realistically think that there'll be no cuts? I don't.

 

[grizby2]

Bowser Jr. is by far a more likely inclusion than Toad simply -because- of his ability to use a cloned moveset. You can't honestly tell me he's unlikely for being similar to Bowser...if that was the case, no way would Wolf or Toon Link have appeared in Brawl.

metal mania posted a moveset for bowser jr a few pages ago. it didn't seem like a bowser clone moveset at all. i CAN honestly say that i believe he wouldn't be a clone of bowser.
besides, why would you want any of junior's normal moves to match bowser's? it just wouldn't match with his character's size.

it depends on how you picture bowser junior's fighting style.

 

[BKupa666]

I'm not advocating for a flood of clones like that Waluigi jibe implies, but I think Jr's potential to have either a unique or cloned moveset makes him a desirable character. While I'd obviously prefer him to be original, my intended point was, it's more of a pro that Jr. can be a clone if needed than a con. The clone argument should never be used against Jr. in an argument, whether it is against his inclusion or for Toad's inclusion, because it gives him an additional way to get into Smash.

What popular characters have clone potential aside from Jr.? (Not counting Krom, since he's in the 'expected' category at this point).

 

[grizby2]

Okay, I would like from everyone, a small list of who they want cut/added. With a few sentences explaining WHY. You have the next 15 minutes to get your cut/add votes in to me in time. Thank you~

can we see that roster again?


well anyway.


cut :

claus/masked man
toad

those are my votes

 

[Shorts]

Please, give me a few sentences of reason too.

 

[Arcadenik]

Okay, I would like from everyone, a small list of who they want cut/added. With a few sentences explaining WHY. You have the next 15 minutes to get your cut/add votes in to me in time. Thank you~

Cut: Ike, Lucario, Sheik, Toon Link, and Snake.
Replace with: Krom, Zoroark, Impa, Masked Link, and Mega Man.

We have already discussed Ike/Krom, Lucario/Zoroark, and Sheik/Impa. As for cutting Toon Link in favor of Masked Link... well, it's because I am anticipating Majora's Mask 3D (it will happen, damn it)... and well, Mega Man is the most-wanted third-party character and Snake isn't exactly the most-wanted third-party character to come back in Smash (that honor goes to Sonic).

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, list of characters I want cut/added:

Cut:
- Tingle: Shortie, it's not just that Tingle has a hate base. If it was a vocal minority like Krystal, then I would understand. The difference being is, lots of people like Krystal as well and she is a popular request to this day. Tingle not only is largely hated among fans of Zelda, very few vocal fans would want to see him in. His inclusion would ultimately cause a huge uproar among the Smash community and would violate one of Sakurai's guidelines, that people want to play as them.

- Ryu: Violates one of Sakurai's guideline which is that people must want to play with him. Third-party spots are precious and we don't need two Capcom reps; all he would do is make people wonder why he was chosen over Mega Man. Fans are asking for Mega Man, not Ryu and Ryu already is the mascot of his own fighting game and appears in every single cross-over, there's no need for him to appear in Smash.

Add
- Paper Mario: A popular requests oversea, which is a plus. He also is able to become a very unique character with so many to bring that he would be like no other Mario newcomers. Not to mention that Sakurai seems to like alternate characters, with us getting Dr. Mario and Toon/Young Link, so I can see him taking an interest in him.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bowser Jr. is often way too different from his father. If anything, he'd have to be portrayed as a nimble character with average attack strength.

And, instead of fire breath, Bowser Jr. would spit out one fireball, but he could charge up its size and power, in a similar manner as Marth's Shield Breaker.

 

[Deleted member]

We have to be realistic and decide what should happen. Do we all realistically think that there'll be no cuts? I don't.

All the Brawl vets have a realistic shot of returning and all of them have very good reasons to do so. We can worry about them later, if we're going to try to be "realistic" (which I'm not going to do right now), focus on the newcomers first that have slim to no shots of getting in.

Plus cuts have only happened once. There's no guarantees it'll happen again.

But if it does come to where we have to argue for a veteran to be cut, I won't be arguing for Lucario's cut. I will sooner argue for the removal of Sonic, Snake, Toon Link, Lucas, and Ike. And if we have to cut a Pokemon, I'm going straight for Zoroark.

 

[BirthNote]

metal mania posted a moveset for bowser jr a few pages ago. it didn't seem like a bowser clone moveset at all. i CAN honestly say that i believe he wouldn't be a clone of bowser.
besides, why would you want any of junior's normal moves to match bowser's? it just wouldn't match with his character's size.

it depends on how you picture bowser junior's fighting style.

BKuppa also made a completely non Bowser-esque moveset for the King's kid.

About my cuts:
-Tingle, because of Ghirahim. We have the potential to have a fresh very new character in the Zelda series who has much to work with and a disturbing nature. Basically, I'm choosing between 2 weirdos, and picking the more sinister one.
-Ryu, because of Mega Man. Capcom having 2 characters while the others having one seems biased somewhat, and Mega Man would provide a non-traditional fighting style compared to Ryu.
-Toad, because of Jr. A paintbrush can give some very imaginative possibilities and I'd like to see what that could do in Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

Plus cuts have only happened once. There's no guarantees it'll happen again.

All the fighting games has had their number of cuts in their rosters over the decades. Why would Smash be the exception? Get real.

 

[BKupa666]

What M&SG said only gives Jr. more credability all around. If Sakurai wants an original moveset, he can take advantage of Jr's paintbrush and fireball abilities, while if he wanted a clone moveset, Jr. can have a few different attacks to replace Bowser's more physical ones to differentiate the two.

I am doubtful that both of Ike/Krom and Lucario/Zoroark are getting in, and Impa wouldn't be even considered if it weren't for Diddy Kong's fantardation. Masks Link has a cool concept, but a third Link seems unlikely at best, especially as a transformation character. I stand by Jr. being the most likely clone addition for an in-game character (with new movesets similar to those of cut veterans not counting).

 

[RespawningJesus]

I would rather have Snake or heck, even Raiden (from the upcoming Rising series.) Sorry, but Mega Man is extremely overrated and is wanted in like every fighter these days. But if you want someone from Capcom, then Dante, or heck, even Amaterasu would be more suitable picks.

 

[Lukingordex]

Cut: Ike, Lucario, Sheik, Toon Link, and Snake.
Replace with: Krom, Zoroark, Impa, Masked Link, and Mega Man.

Impa?

 

[BirthNote]

Plus cuts have only happened once. There's no guarantees it'll happen again.

I'm sorry but, with a larger roster they do seem to be guaranteed.

 

[grizby2]

get rid of the mii.
i always hated the idea.
aside from that, i can easily see the move set being in the same situation for people who consider waluigi. while not being spin-offs themselves, just about every game for them is "spin-off" in nature.

 

[Xhampi]

Cut
Bowser Jr
Become less and less important to the Mario series.
Toad is more iconic and poppular.

Add
Victini
Has equal chance to chance than Zoroark to make it in SSB4.
Allow variety if Mewtwo return and Lucario is keep.

Bandanna Dee
Possibility to comfirm his new importance in the Kirby series.
Represent an important specie of the Kirby games.
Can bring something new with his spear.

Paper Mario
Poppularity
None less than 3 games and one more in preparation for the 3DS

 

[Deleted member]

All the fighting games has had their number of cuts in their rosters over the decades. Why would Smash be the exception? Get real.

Sakurai does not have the mentality that cutting veterans will allow for more newcomers. If he did, we would have seen far more cuts planned and more cuts that would have gone through. I doubt Sakurai wants to see anyone cut from Brawl.

Will he ultimately have to do so? Seems likely because of time constraints, but it almost surely won't be as much as Brawl and I would say that the first cuts he makes will be on third-parties (Sonic and Snake), not Lucario.

 

[Lukingordex]

get rid of the mii.
i always hated the idea.
aside from that, i can easily see the move set being in the same situation for people who consider waluigi. while not being spin-offs themselves, just about every game for them is "spin-off" in nature.

Never.
Mii is the best choise as a new smash character.

 

[Arcadenik]

Masks Link has a cool concept, but a third Link seems unlikely at best, especially as a transformation character.

Which is why I am willing to sacrifice one of my Brawl mains, Toon Link, for a chance to play as a brand-new Zelda character who isn't a clone... I mean, there's no way Sakurai could possibly make Link clones out of a Deku Scrub, a Goron, and a Zora, isn't there? Right? Oh, and there's also the benefit of playing as some of Zelda's major races (Deku, Goron, Zora) within one character... but they aren't just generic species, they are actually Link.

 

[grizby2]

Never.
Mii is the best choise as a new smash character.

i am hungry for your reasons sir.

 

[Jakor]

Cut:
Bowser Jr.: Toad is a more important character, being playable in countless Mario games (if you count the spinoff. Bowser Jr. has never been playable).

Ghirahim: He isn't a major character in the Zelda series. Midna and Zant weren't added in Brawl because they, too, appeared in only one game.

Zoroark: There are more interesting Pokemon to add than him, and, I believe he would be too similar to Wolf.

Roy: We don't need 4 Fire Emblem reps. It would be best to have a new character that hasn't been playable in a Smash game before, so there should be a new FE character instead, whether it is Krom or someone else.

Slime: We don't need a rep from Fire Emblem. I don't think he will ever make a full fledged character, being an assist trophy at most.

Ryu: There should only be one character allowed for each third party company, and for Capcom, I would rather have Mega Man than Ryu, as he is much more demanded and popular.

Prof. Layton: Another third party character that I feel wouldn't add much to the current roster. He also comes from a company that doesn't have a long relationship with Nintendo.

Add:
Black Shadow: So we can keep Ganondorf's old moveset while giving Ganon's a whole new one.

Victini: Instead of Zoroark. He has less chances of having similarities to characters that are already present.

Rayman: If there is a third party character from Ubisoft, it will most likely be Rayman.

 

[Lukingordex]

i am hungry for your reasons sir.

Miis can have a excelent and unique moveset,they will be unique characters.

They are one of the most requested characters too.

I have a lot of others reasons to support Miis,but I really don´t remember all of then now...

 

[Shorts]

All the fighting games has had their number of cuts in their rosters over the decades. Why would Smash be the exception? Get real.

So sassy.

AND WITH THAT. Here we are.

Cuts:

Ryu - It was figured out early on in round two that he was just not THE BEST fit, he wasn't mentioned by ONO or INAFUNE, and Megaman takes the fan cake. YES, there is something definitely to be said for how he is always the cross over leader. I get chya. But, I want LESS third parties, and we have enough reasons to cut him.

Tingle - Mostly because you guys simply don't care for him. I made the Balloon Fighter point, but it doesn't matter much if like, five of you WANT HIM GONE.

RETURNING:
Bandana Dee - He's pretty close to the "Toad" of the Kirby series in many respects, and dare I say it? Sakurai seems to KNOW OF HIM AND ACKNOWLEDGES HIM AS A LARGE PIECE OF KIRBY'S FRANCHISE. So, he's back... for now...

If you want Ryu or Tingle back, you know what to do... start convincing me.

NOW LISTEN HERE. I want you to look at this list of characters, and give me your opinion on the character, along with a "Keep", "Cut", or "Pass". Pass means you dont care.

Toad has been brought up, and he has some people wanting him cut, and some wanting him to stay.
Junior is the same story as Toad.
Ghirahim has been brought up a bit too, so opinions on him?

How do you feel about Ike, Toon Link, and Shiek being cut?

AND OF COURSE, bring up any other character you would like!

Remember: Want a character on the roster? Convince me. Don't just say "x please"

 

[grizby2]

Miis can have a excelent and unique moveset,they will be unique characters.

They are one of the most requested characters too.

I have a lot of others reasons to support Miis,but I really don´t remember all of then now...

hmm sorry, i'll stick by my descision, since requests arent something that will make me throw in the towel, and that goes for ANY character.

but hey its just a game
...for now

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Ghirahim: He isn't a major character in the Zelda series. Midna and Zant weren't added in Brawl because they, too, appeared in only one game.

I'm just messing, I needed an excuse to use that.

But seriously, you don't know if Midna and Zant weren't used for those reasons. Besides, I think I made a pretty decent case for him.

@Birthnote, cuts aren't guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed until God-King Sakurai speaketh.

 

[Jakor]

I'm just messing, I needed an excuse to use that.

But seriously, you don't know if Midna and Zant weren't used for those reasons. Besides, I think I made a pretty decent case for him.

@Birthnote, cuts aren't guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed until God-King Sakurai speaketh.

Haha. I like Ghirahim honestly, but I don't think one-shot characters from any given series are deserving to be in Smash. Characters should be chosen among the most important/recurring ones within a series.

For a new Zelda rep, we need to look between Impa, Tingle and Skull Kid.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think that most people don't really hate Tingle... it's just that I think there's something memetic about hating Tingle... almost like we are supposed to say bad things about Tingle. I mean, do they really hate Tingle? Like "hate hate" Tingle as opposed to "love to hate" Tingle? Most people seem to love to hate Duck Hunt Dog but do they feel the same way about Tingle or do they actually hate Tingle? I guess I just don't buy that everyone hates or doesn't care about Tingle when he's had a big enough fanbase with decent popularity to warrant his own game series.

 

[yani]

Since I want all Brawl vets, I'll do a newcomer list:

Spoiler

Toad: Pass
Bowser Jr.: Pass
Captain Syrup: Pass
Ghirahim: Keep
Tingle: Keep
Dixie Kong: Keep
King K. Rool: Keep
Palutena: Keep
Medusa: Keep
Samurai Goroh: Keep
Krystal: Keep
Zoroark: Cut
Mewtwo: Keep
Roy: Keep
Krom: Cut
Saki: Keep
Little Mac: Keep
Issac: Cut
Shulk: Keep
Takamaru: Cut
Starfy: Cut
Tom Nook: Keep
Mii: Pass
Mega Man: Keep
Ryu: Cut
Laytonass
Slime: Pass

I think I got everyone.

To note: I wouldn't mind Toon Link getting cut.

 

[Jakor]

Since I want all Brawl vets, I'll do a newcomer list:

Spoiler

Toad: Pass
Bowser Jr.: Pass
Captain Syrup: Pass
Ghirahim: Keep
Tingle: Keep
Dixie Kong: Keep
King K. Rool: Keep
Palutena: Keep
Medusa: Keep
Samurai Goroh: Keep
Krystal: Keep
Zoroark: Cut
Mewtwo: Keep
Roy: Keep
Krom: Cut
Saki: Keep
Little Mac: Keep
Issac: Cut
Shulk: Keep
Takamaru: Cut
Starfy: Cut
Tom Nook: Keep
Mii: Pass
Mega Man: Keep
Ryu: Cut
Laytonass
Slime: Pass

I think I got everyone.

To note: I wouldn't mind Toon Link getting cut.

Yeah, if there is a character from Brawl that should be cut, it should be without a doubt, Toon Link.

 

[Shorts]

I think that most people don't really hate Tingle... it's just that I think there's something memetic about hating Tingle... almost like we are supposed to say bad things about Tingle. I mean, do they really hate Tingle? Like "hate hate" Tingle as opposed to "love to hate" Tingle? Most people seem to love to hate Duck Hunt Dog but do they feel the same way about Tingle or do they actually hate Tingle? I guess I just don't buy that everyone hates or doesn't care about Tingle when he's had a big enough fanbase with decent popularity to warrant his own game series.

Trust me, I get you. The only reason he was cut, was, because he was definitely the most requested to be cut, and... most people just prefer Ghirahim to him. NOW, maybe he can return at a later time... but with this crowd, you might as well save your points for a different time... when they arent on.


Yani Would you elaborate on a few of your cuts please?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Cut:
Bowser Jr.: Toad is a more important character, being playable in countless Mario games (if you count the spinoff. Bowser Jr. has never been playable).

So what if he never appeared in Super Mario 3D Land. There are other mainstream titles that Bowser Jr. played a role in. Besides, just because he's not playable in a mainstream game, does NOT mean that he can't be a fighter.

On a different subject, whenever I hear that "fabulous" talk, it always seems to make me think about Disco Kid.

 

[Big-Cat]

All the fighting games has had their number of cuts in their rosters over the decades. Why would Smash be the exception? Get real.

If Street Fighter IV is to serve any indication, it's that characters will come, go, and come again.

Sakurai does not have the mentality that cutting veterans will allow for more newcomers. If he did, we would have seen far more cuts planned and more cuts that would have gone through. I doubt Sakurai wants to see anyone cut from Brawl.

We don't know this for certain, but we have to look as to why characters don't make returns in other games.

Street Fighter 3 - Capcom wanted to start off with a new cast, but Ryu and Ken were last minute additions along with the later additions of Akuma and Chun-Li.

Street Fighter 4 - Was meant to be a "return to form" for the series by having the original 12 SF2 characters and 4 new characters added in to freshen things up. Later on, the remaining SF2 roster, a number of Alpha and 3S characters, and two newcomers (three if you count Oni) were added to the roster.

Soul Calibur 5 - I honestly don't know why there was a 17 year time skip, but it explains why there were expies in their place.

Compare these three to KOF XIII that had no new characters save for Saiki as everyone else was from some previous SNK fighter.

Smash hasn't quite got to the amount of characters these series have had (save for Soul Calibur 2) and the circumstances behind, say, a smaller roster are several possibilities.

How do you feel about Ike, Toon Link, and Shiek being cut?

I think Ike and Toon Link should stay. Ike has seniority over Krom if that really matters. Toon Link can easily be made different from Link and I feel a child and an adult Link being in the same game is necessary.

For Sheik, I don't think the duo has worked very well and I think it's for the best that the two playstyles are permanently split apart with Impa inheriting Sheik's playstyle, but with twists.