New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Metal Overlord]

Hitmonchan >>>>>>>> Hitmonlee cause I said so. Deal with it

 

[Hoots]

No love for Medicham? I am disappoint, son.

 

[Aurane]

I'd rather go ape**** with Infernape then Medicham, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, or Fakemontop.

ROB appea- Oh wait, thats just 80's Robot.

 

[Deleted member]

People, ignore plokoon. He's a troll.

@Cobalsh (#101340): This roster needs a lot of work, because that's definitely not a good one.

First off, take off Waluigi and a sixth slot. Mario does not need two newcomers and Bowser Jr. is already good enough as it is.

Ghirahim is okay, but replacing Toon Link with Skull Kid is a horrible idea. Sakurai considers two Links to be important to him, so there's no way he would want to kick child Link out of Smash, not to mention that very few people care about Skull Kid. Remove him and add either Young or Toon Link.

Why is the fourth Star Fox rep Leon? The only character most people care about for a potential fourth character is Krystal. Either swap him with Krystal or drop a fourth slot.

Dark Samus is cool, but I believe he missed his chance in Brawl now that 90% of Metroid newcomers supporters have flocked to Ridley, so he needs to go.

Your Pokemon section is awful (the only good thing about it is Mewtwo's return). Removing Jigglypuff from the roster is a horrible idea and replacing him with Ukelele Pichu is completely unneeded. Also, why should Lucario be replaced by Zoroark? Zoroark will likely be ineffective for promotion purposes come Smash 4 when 6th gen will be right around the corner and the Pokemon Company plans well ahead of time. The franchise can also easily justify eight characters (transformation included) and many people want to see Lucario back, not to mention that he has been shown in promotion for Black & White 2, so I'd suggest adding him back.

Black Knight is a poor choice as well and should be switched with either Krom or Roy, both of whom as superior choices and quite frankly, our only realistic choices.

Earthbound should not receive a third rep mainly because most people don't want one. You didn't even pick the best choice. If you absolutely must have a third rep (which I would advise not), use Masked Man.

Shy Guy will never be in as almost no one cares about it. I'd suggest dropping him.

What happened to Mr. Game & Watch? Why are there no new retro characters? Why would Dillon and Louie be in? And if we get an Animal Crossing character, it'll probably be the Animal Crosser.

Sales really don't matter, but
Xenoblade's sales are probably the same or better than any of the Mother games
Xenoblade's sales are probably more than any Starfy game or Sin and Punishment

Also, Shulk is just as popular as any of those characters.

Internationally, Xenoblade does beat out Earthbound, but in Japan? Not so much.

Also, Starfy 5's international sale still beats Xenoblade.

As for Shulk's popularity, it depends on the character, but I would say that him being more popular than Little Mac or Isaac is a stretch.

It really isn't, and I can list over 10 characters who face none of the problems he has without even kicking roster spots from other likable candidates like Toad most likely would.

Not sure what you mean by by, especially since Toad is arguably is in the Top Ten most wanted characters for SSB4. And going by this, wouldn't just about any character kick another character out?

I can list about 30 characters that may have been "semi-considered."

Semi-considered and semi-seriously considered are two different things. These are the ones I feel are the only ones that I feel will be seriously considered:

Super Mario Bros: Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi
Donkey Kong: King K. Rool, Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ghirahim
Metroid: Ridley
Star Fox: Krystal
Pokemon: Mewtwo, 6th Gen Pokemon, Zoroark, Meloetta
F-zero: Samurai Goroh
Fire Emblem: Roy, Chrome
Kid Icarus: Palutena, Medusa
Retro: Takamaru, Lip, Duck Hunt Dog
Misc.: Mii, Little Mac, Isaac, Saki Amamiya, Starfy, Ray, Animal Crosser, Shulk
Third-Party: Mega Man, Professor Layton

I would be surprised if anyone else were made playable.

Well thanks for the source. That sounds like you could believe it, except the fact Brawl was delayed about 3 months. Plus, again, this is 2 games being developed, not 1.

Delay is the only way I see us getting more than three years of development and even then I have doubts about that.

I am curious whether we should do a prediction league also for the first set of newcomers unveiled for Smash 4. Is anyone up for that?

I'd be willing to do it just for fun. Here are my predictions:

Villain: Ridley
Female: Palutena
Modern Misc.: Little Mac
Retro: Takamaru
Third-Party: Mega Man

Am I the only one surprised that the Duck Hunt Dog never made a comparition yet? Not even as trophy, as stiker or as bad helper.
Since in Melee we had Mr. Game&Watch and in Brawl we have R.O.B. I think that dog could be the next WTF character.

I concur with you on that. The only competition I can think of for the dog at the moment is Diskun and even I feel the Dog will probably win anyway.

if ness is cut im gonna hang myself

That's way too dramatic. Remember, it's just a game.

Boy, things sure have turned boring lately. But I guess when you're in the dark for almost a full year, you're bound to start odd conversations.

Sadly, I have nothing different to talk about at this time.

That's why it's so refreshing to take a couple months off the thread and return with a new sets of opinions on the game.

OK... So upon reading Sakurai's comments... I am now absolutely terrified. Is he going to force you to buy a 3DS and Smash3D in order to do most of the content in the WiiU one? How much is he going to change the direction? Is it going to be to the point that we won't be able to do the same ol' 1v1 competitive games? And let's hope he still wants to make the roster bigger. Dear god...

Don't fret just yet. Sakurai is still going to try to make this game more competitive and is going to try to make the Wii-U stand out by itself without buying the 3DS. I'm also confident that we will see at least 49 characters.

 

[Lukingordex]

*****es, please stop.
Everybody knows Hitmontop is the best.

quoted for truth

 

[Baskerville]

Holy damn, SSBF's posts are longer than John's. =0

 

[Oasis_S]

Holy damn, SSBF's posts are longer than John's. =0

I don't even see them anymore. Like a conditioned response.

 

[SmashChu]

Internationally, Xenoblade does beat out Earthbound, but in Japan? Not so much.

Also, Starfy 5's international sale still beats Xenoblade.

Again, sales really aren't important. So it's a mute argument anyway.

All the games did the same. Except for Earthbound, they all sold about the same amount.

As for Shulk's popularity, it depends on the character, but I would say that him being more popular than Little Mac or Isaac is a stretch.Not sure what you mean by by, especially since Toad is arguably is in the Top Ten most wanted characters for SSB4. And going by this, wouldn't just about any character kick another character out?Semi-considered and semi-seriously considered are two different things. These are the ones I feel are the only ones that I feel will be seriously considered:

I was looking mostly at the popularity of the game. It is well liked by people who played it and it was rated the 6th best Nintendo game by Japanese gamers. Also, looking at just Shulk, he's just as popular in Japan as most of the other characters (assuming my memory is good. I had something wrong recently)

And as I said before, they tend to go with Nintendo owned series rather than ones where Nintendo doesn't own the series. Most series from a Nintendo developer get more stuff than ones that weren't (which, if you care, is likely just to make sure there is no problem with the content from than and going forward). Since 64, the only new series to get in where all made by a Nintendo developer (save for the third parties of course). Heck, even games like Magical Starsign got more than a lot of other more deserving series.

I'm voting on Xenoblade because
1)People really like the game
2)Trends

 

[Oasis_S]

It feels like you're on repeat, Chu. Why is SSBF doing this to you.

 

[SmashChu]

Let's not lose our heads though!

I can see your strength is the genuine article.

It feels like you're on repeat, Chu. Why is SSBF doing this to you.

Because I've lost control of my life.

 

[Baskerville]

Dark SmashChu Rises!
BTW this track should be in Smash 4

 

[Oasis_S]

If you were to compare the sizes of the three blondie swordsmen newcomers' swords, would Shulk come out on top.

 

[yani]

I'm voting on Xenoblade because
1)People really like the game
2)Trends
3))Riki

Fixed for Heropon

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

And as I said before, they tend to go with Nintendo owned series rather than ones where Nintendo doesn't own the series.

They also have yet to include a character from a series less than 3-4 years old.


I have a copy of Xenoblade that's been sitting on my desk for a week, still haven't bothered to fire it up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He is playable.

He was even planned for the game. It's just that he was.... "Cut in half". I guess that's the word.

Off for now then again

I'm talking about the MAIN Toad, not the members of the race. They don't count.

 

[ChronoBound]

The funny thing about the Female Fire Emblem character bandwagon is that....

Spoiler

Masked Marth/Lucina looks almost exactly like Marth (except having longer hair). Yet these same people think she would stand out more than Krom despite Marth's re-design for FE13 making him have the exact same outfit as Lucina. Its absolutely hilarious because they were dropped Sheeda a few weeks early and rallied behind Anna, and now they are dropping Anna and going behind Lucina. They are truly not fans of any character, but simply want a female for the sake of having a female.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Honestly, when it comes to Fire Emblem women, the only one I really want is Lyn

 

[N3ON]

They also have yet to include a character from a series less than 3-4 years old.


I have a copy of Xenoblade that's been sitting on my desk for a week, still haven't bothered to fire it up.

I feel that this is mostly coincidental to there not being any new series that have enough impact and a viable potential playable character that was released less than 3-4 years before a smash comes out, rather than something Sakurai avidly avoids adding on principle of it just being a new series. As an example, I'd be willing to bet that if a Smash had been released within 2-3 years after Pikmin's release, Olimar would have been a real contender.

Plus by the time SSB4 comes out, Xenoblade will be more than four years old, it's already two years old. (if you were indeed talking about Xenoblade)


And relating to FE women... I've lost hope of having one playable in SSB4. There are just too many blue-haired dudes and the occasional Roy to fend off.

 

[Lukingordex]

Honestly, when it comes to Fire Emblem women, the only one I really want is Lyn

I think Lyn is a possibility,she is already a assist trophy in Brawl.

 

[SmashChu]

They also have yet to include a character from a series less than 3-4 years old

Xenoblade is about to be 2 years old. It will be 4 by the time the game has come out.

I have a copy of Xenoblade that's been sitting on my desk for a week, still haven't bothered to fire it up.

Good game if you can put up with the ridiculous story. It's not bad, but more melodrama kind of comes in later.

Music is pretty boss.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Earthbound should not receive a third rep mainly because most people don't want one. You didn't even pick the best choice. If you absolutely must have a third rep (which I would advise not), use Masked Man.

Debatable whether he'd be the one to pick. I felt the same way before, but when I said that everyone suggested Porky because he is a villian and that Masked Man would make two characters from the same game represented. (I think Porky was in multiple=???)

Spoiler

Yeah, I just did a Johnknight1

Also, Starfy 5's international sale still beats Xenoblade.

Well, like Smashchu says sales aren't entirely the focus. Sakurai just wants characters that would make people want to play the game (but they must also fit and bring something new).

Toad is arguably is in the Top Ten most wanted characters for SSB4. And going by this, wouldn't just about any character kick another character out?

Toad being the most wanted doesn't answer the issues I have mentioned. And yes, any character would kick out another inevitably, but that wasn't the point. The point was that when in, as said before he is going to kick someone else out, which means that someone who doesn't have any of the problems Toad has did not get in that slot. I would like Toad in, but we haven't quite exhausted all of our options yet, when we get to those kind of characters, I think he should be the first o be put in.

Semi-considered and semi-seriously considered are two different things. These are the ones I feel are the only ones that I feel will be seriously considered:

Super Mario Bros: Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi
Donkey Kong: King K. Rool, Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ghirahim
Metroid: Ridley
Star Fox: Krystal
Pokemon: Mewtwo, 6th Gen Pokemon, Zoroark, Meloetta
F-zero: Samurai Goroh
Fire Emblem: Roy, Chrome
Kid Icarus: Palutena, Medusa
Retro: Takamaru, Lip, Duck Hunt Dog
Misc.: Mii, Little Mac, Isaac, Saki Amamiya, Starfy, Ray, Animal Crosser, Shulk
Third-Party: Mega Man, Professor Layton

Could you sell me Duck Hunt Dog's moveset to me? I am still utterly lost with that choice.

Fixed for Heropon

If Xenoblade gets in, maybe we can get an AT. Or better yet, DLC Riki. I'd pay a lot of money for him alone. XD

They also have yet to include a character from a series less than 3-4 years old.

Interesting point, but not something very definitive. I don't think Sakurai has said anything about that either.

I have a copy of Xenoblade that's been sitting on my desk for a week, still haven't bothered to fire it up.

It's one of the best games on the Wii, fire that thing up.

 

[Deleted member]

@SmashChu: I don't really care about the sales argument either. The only reason why I brought it up was because of a few facts I wanted to bring up.

And fair enough on your second major point. I don't necessarily agree, but I don't see this going anywhere if we continued.

 

[Metal Overlord]

If you want a Duck Hunt Dog moveset, hit up Arcadenik then

 

[GiantBreadbug]

How about this for a conversation starter? That Sakurai statement is irking me for some reason.

As you noted, there is a certain dead end we come to if we just expand the volume of the game.

Wait, what? No there isn't. As long as there are *significant* franchises left unrepresented with major content (characters, stages, music, in descending order), there is no "dead end."

I'm a self-admitted Nintendo fanboy, and one of the instincts of my kind is to play the "Gameplay > Graphics" card when confronted with criticism about Nintendo, but I believe I'll take a step back here and say that the core gameplay of Smash Bros. is fine.

Now I'm not by any means advocating stagnation, but it bugs the hell out of me when people think they're sooooo insightful when they make the easiest criticism of them all: "Blah Series needs to introduce new gameplay mechanics or the series will get stale."

Bullsh*t. I mean, sure, some new things would be nice, and Sakurai trying to think of good ways to develop 3DS/Wii U connectivity is great and all, but in a game like Smash Bros., the most attention is on the actual content. I mean, you have the crowd that decries Brawl as the most horrible abomination to ever disgrace the Earth, but that's a small (and silly) faction. As long as the Smash Bros. formula is present, and basically works, the gameplay will be fine. As a game developer, it is detrimental to focus on gameplay first to build a standout experience from the ground up, but once you've built a framework you can be confident in (something Smash Bros. has achieved), you can focus on expanding the content a little bit. Not that this hasn't happened, but there should be equal emphasis on both.

Again, I'm not saying one is greater than the other, but the fact that Sakurai keeps saying things that suggest he thinks he's sufficed on character/franchise representation, it makes me a sad person. There's a whole company out there to draw inspiration from, just use the resources.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I'm actually glad he isn't satisfied doing what essentially every fighting game does. When they change the formula, each game makes its own mark and actually keeps the others alive. When you keep the same formula and style and just add content, the game is going to kill all previous editions because it is simply a Melee 2.0/Brawl 2.0 or whatever. That is what happens in every series unless they are games based around different stories, they basically make it very predictable and has you drop the previous version.

More specifically, what he means by a dead end is that if he were to just simply add characters to each one and not revolutionize the experience everytime, soon he will eat up all character options and eventually the series will die in terms of evolution. There will be nothing left to do with it.

 

[Deleted member]

@SSBF: Why would he not look at/consider Toon Zelda again? As proven, Sakurai tends to look back on old characters that didn't make the cut. So why would someone like Ghirahim be the only one he would consider?

EDIT: Sorry Arcadenik, didn't mean you.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'm actually glad he isn't satisfied doing what essentially every fighting game does. When they change the formula, each game makes its own mark and actually keeps the others alive. When you keep the same formula and style and just add content, the game is going to kill all previous editions because it is simply a Melee 2.0/Brawl 2.0 or whatever. That is what happens in every series unless they are games based around different stories, they basically make it very predictable and has you drop the previous version.

More specifically, what he means by a dead end is that if he were to just simply add characters to each one and not revolutionize the experience everytime, soon he will eat up all character options and eventually the series will die in terms of evolution. There will be nothing left to do with it.

The thing about that is that the series hasn't ever truly "evolved." It has honestly never been revolutionized since 64, and that was because the game was so unconventional for a fighting game at the time. The only major changes from game to game have been physics and character balance, and all that has succeeded in dividing the fanbase.

Smash Balls and Assist Trophies were neat additions to Brawl, but they weren't game-changers. Most people turn Smash Balls off (I do not). I loved the SSE (heretic), but it's just a fleshed-out Adventure Mode (with the strange omission of Nintendo locales).

I'm not advocating that any future Smash Bros. game be exactly like the last but with more characters, but there should be equal parts focus on each tweaking the gameplay and adding characters.

 

[N3ON]

@Breadbug

I agree that as long as viable characters and franchises are left unrepresented, there wouldn't be a "dead end", but I believe Sakurai's view is that just adding new content wouldn't justify making a new game. I think he needs there to always be a new element to each successive Smash iteration for him to feel the sequel is warranted.

This is all very ironic, considering the majority of people who actually follow Smash care priotize the new content (characters, stages, game physics) above whatever "new" element Sakurai brings to Smash (such as the SSE).

However with Sakurai it seems we can't get new characters and stuff without also having new elements. Usually this play a back role to most people, but it's not like the new major stuff Sakurai adds is that terrible (the SSE wasn't horrible -- it was a good idea -- just sort of flawed in it's execution). Although I still care more about the characters and "content", I'm still intrigued to what Sakurai has in mind for how the two systems will work together (which seems to be SSB4's new "element")

But I agree that just adding new content without adding new elements wouldn't cause Smash to reach a dead end. Although I'm sure people would complain about lack of lack of growth and "staleness".

 

[ChronoBound]

@Arcadenik: Why would he not look at/consider Toon Zelda again? As proven, Sakurai tends to look back on old characters that didn't make the cut. So why would someone like Ghirahim be the only one he would consider?

I think Toon Zelda will only be re-considered if she plays a major role in Zelda 3DS.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Breadbug

I agree that as long as viable characters and franchises are left unrepresented, there wouldn't be a "dead end", but I believe Sakurai's view is that just adding new content wouldn't justify making a new game. I think he needs there to always be a new element to each successive Smash iteration for him to feel the sequel is warranted.

This is all very ironic, considering the majority of people who actually follow Smash care priotize the new content (characters, stages, game physics) above whatever "new" element Sakurai brings to Smash (such as the SSE).

However with Sakurai it seems we can't get new characters and stuff without also having new elements. Usually this play a back role to most people, but it's not like the new major stuff Sakurai adds is that terrible (the SSE wasn't horrible -- it was a good idea -- just sort of flawed in it's execution). Although I still care more about the characters and "content", I'm still intrigued to what Sakurai has in mind for how the two systems will work together (which seems to be SSB4's new "element")

But I agree that just adding new content without adding new elements wouldn't cause Smash to reach a dead end. Although I'm sure people would complain about lack of lack of growth and "staleness".

Yeah, if anyone wanted to complain about staleness, then they're getting an awfully late start. Smash Bros. has not radically changed since its conception (the basic formula, not the physics), so people who foam at the mouth because there is no noticeable difference in gameplay must not have been paying attention all this time.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sakurai has said in the past that there was a finite amount of characters that were worthy enough to be playable in Smash Bros., so it should not be surprising that Sakurai wants to focus on aspects other than "bigger and better" for Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Toon Zelda will only be re-considered if she plays a major role in Zelda 3DS.

Considering how aside from the OoT remake, the latest Zelda titles have been Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks, and Spirit Tracks being the first time Zelda was legitimately a playable character within the series...
I don't think she needs to have a "major" role in the next game. (Though she will. I mean, she's freaking ZELDA. Are you seriously questioning Zelda's role in a Zelda game?)

Afterall, should we not expect Dixie Kong because she hasn't had a major role (or any role for that matter) for years?

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai has said in the past that there was a finite amount of characters that were worthy enough to be playable in Smash Bros., so it should not be surprising that Sakurai wants to focus on aspects other than "bigger and better" for Smash 4.

It never is that surprising, it's what he's been trying to do for a while.

But I believe that if Smash only comes along once every console gen, it would take a while for "worthy" characters to run out, especially if new ones keep being added. (Pokemon, FE, new IPs). It will get to the point where the sheer amount of characters could be... overwhelming, and that's why I believe the amount of newcomers will gradually decrease per game.

And something I forgot to mention before, the problem for me doesn't arise when Sakurai adds new elements to Smash games, it's when the vast majority of the dev time goes to work on that feature instead of ones people who care about Smash value more. But this is inevitable and will happen again, it just irks me.

 

[Mypantisgone]

Considering how aside from the OoT remake, the latest Zelda titles have been Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks, and Spirit Tracks being the first time Zelda was legitimately a playable character within the series...
I don't think she needs to have a "major" role in the next game. (Though she will. I mean, she's freaking ZELDA. Are you seriously questioning Zelda's role in a Zelda game?)

Afterall, should we not expect Dixie Kong because she hasn't had a major role (or any role for that matter) for years?

Little kid:zelda's very important,he always save the princess

And marth will probably be cut and become lyn's alt

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Not a lot of characters come out actually Chaoskid, Sakurai himself noted that. Nintendo has more icons than anyone else, but they don't really add to their huge stockpile, they typically recycle them. So they most certainly would run out of major icons and start having to throw in minor faces, then those faces would get more minor and minor by the minute. In fact, we're already experiencing that, we already got the main bases filled. That is why predicting this next roster is going to be far more difficult than any roster to date.

@ Breadbug, it's just me than I guess. I like that one fanbase isn't pandered towards, or that when the next one comes out and we don't drop the previous edition. When I think of going to play SSB, my perfect vision is a Wii with SSB on the virtual console and a Melee and Brawl disc. When SSB4 comes out, I'd like to think to set it along with them and still be able to find a reason to play all of them, regardless if I like the newest one the most. You can't do that nearly as well with other fighters, shooters, etc. Only RPGs and platformers break that trend.

 

[N3ON]

Not a lot of characters come out actually Chaoskid, Sakurai himself noted that. Nintendo has more icons than anyone else, but they don't really add to their huge stockpile, they typically recycle them. So they most certainly would run out of major icons and start having to throw in minor faces, then those faces would get more minor and minor by the minute. In fact, we're already experiencing that, we already got the main bases filled. That is why predicting this next roster is going to be far more difficult than any roster to date.

True, good point. I was thinking more along the lines of using their enormous backlog (which I know will also run dry eventually), and only filling a few spots with viable newer characters, as I agree they aren't that common. I didn't structure my point like this before though, my bad.

But I'm aware even by doing that method, (notable) characters will run out eventually, which is why, like I said above, I believe the amount of newcomers will start decreasing.

 

[Mypantisgone]

What would be funny is that on 64 stages (or melee or brawl),the character graphics get bad to fit it,or black for flatzone.

 

[SmashChu]

Wait, what? No there isn't. As long as there are *significant* franchises left unrepresented with major content (characters, stages, music, in descending order), there is no "dead end."

I'm a self-admitted Nintendo fanboy, and one of the instincts of my kind is to play the "Gameplay > Graphics" card when confronted with criticism about Nintendo, but I believe I'll take a step back here and say that the core gameplay of Smash Bros. is fine.

Now I'm not by any means advocating stagnation, but it bugs the hell out of me when people think they're sooooo insightful when they make the easiest criticism of them all: "Blah Series needs to introduce new gameplay mechanics or the series will get stale."

Bullsh*t. I mean, sure, some new things would be nice, and Sakurai trying to think of good ways to develop 3DS/Wii U connectivity is great and all, but in a game like Smash Bros., the most attention is on the actual content. I mean, you have the crowd that decries Brawl as the most horrible abomination to ever disgrace the Earth, but that's a small (and silly) faction. As long as the Smash Bros. formula is present, and basically works, the gameplay will be fine. As a game developer, it is detrimental to focus on gameplay first to build a standout experience from the ground up, but once you've built a framework you can be confident in (something Smash Bros. has achieved), you can focus on expanding the content a little bit. Not that this hasn't happened, but there should be equal emphasis on both.

Again, I'm not saying one is greater than the other, but the fact that Sakurai keeps saying things that suggest he thinks he's sufficed on character/franchise representation, it makes me a sad person. There's a whole company out there to draw inspiration from, just use the resources.

I agree with you that Smash success has been, in part, content. There is no denying everyone wants to see who will be the next to enter the fray. But this is nothing new.

Sakurai has always said that he doesn't want to add just more stuff to the game. despite this, he always has added more stuff to the games. Brawl had 15 new characters in it as well as a bunch of other things. This game will be no different that Brawl in that Sakurai will add more characters, stages and other goodies. The thing is he wants to also add something new and different. ChronoBound makes a good point.

Sakurai has said in the past that there was a finite amount of characters that were worthy enough to be playable in Smash Bros., so it should not be surprising that Sakurai wants to focus on aspects other than "bigger and better" for Smash 4.

The problem is the content will run out and the well is getting pretty dry. Most of the series have already hit all their big names and there are few really good characters left to add. This is why Sakurai tries to add new things to him games because he knows that the well is drying and making Brawl 2.0 isn't going to get anyone interested.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Breadbug
It's not all about the amount of the content, but the quality. As you said, Smash hasn't really revolutionized since 64. Personally, I'd say it last evolved with Melee as Brawl took out more than it added in terms of gameplay. To say we don't have the right to complain about a lack of change is idiotic. Sure, at the deeper levels, it's changed, but it really hasn't changed on the surface. Any casual player who knows the SF series will tell you that each of the different series all behave very differently just by watching videos of 2, Alpha, 3, 4, and X Tekken.

I will say that Smash has achieved a great framework. The only problem is that not a whole lot has been done with it. It's a very simple, yet extremely versatile framework. The people at Project M have tapped into its potential more so than Sakurai. Multiple Din's Fires, Lucario's chains, etc. are all really good examples that the system provides, and they're not even working with the source code.

I'm actually glad he isn't satisfied doing what essentially every fighting game does. When they change the formula, each game makes its own mark and actually keeps the others alive. When you keep the same formula and style and just add content, the game is going to kill all previous editions because it is simply a Melee 2.0/Brawl 2.0 or whatever. That is what happens in every series unless they are games based around different stories, they basically make it very predictable and has you drop the previous version.

This reminds me of the Tekken series. One criticism I've seen before about that series is that it has played too safe with its gameplay, something Smash has arguably done. The last big advancement was the introduction of corners with Tekken 4 and that was a decade ago, and we've had 5, 6, and Tag 2 since then.

 

[Deleted member]

The funny thing about the Female Fire Emblem character bandwagon is that....

Spoiler

Masked Marth/Lucina looks almost exactly like Marth (except having longer hair). Yet these same people think she would stand out more than Krom despite Marth's re-design for FE13 making him have the exact same outfit as Lucina. Its absolutely hilarious because they were dropped Sheeda a few weeks early and rallied behind Anna, and now they are dropping Anna and going behind Lucina. They are truly not fans of any character, but simply want a female for the sake of having a female.

Make a thread about it on GameFAQs and be prepared for "but we do care for them! They're different from other females." and you getting yourself flamed because you don't support females from Fire Emblem. Some people did support Liz back then; now no one talks about her.

I don't understand the Lucina bandwagon at all. Chrome is still the main lord and still the one being represented as a playable character if we get a FE newcomer. That's where most of the legitimate support for a FE newcomer is coming from.

Most of the Anna support came from her being the most recurring Fire Emblem character. I was one of those unfortunate people who briefly jumped on the wagon because I initally thought she could work as a promotion due to being so recurring and unique move set potentials. (I gave Anna a 25% when she came up on Rate Their Chances). But I quickly recognized her otherwise lack of importance to the series and dropped support for her.

I could somewhat symphatize with Caeda and Black Knight support that happened earlier, since they felt somewhat genuine, but I never were big supporters of them.