New Smash Bros for WiiU

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Namco doesn't seem to have a problem with 3 characters of a same franchise. Likewise, they don't have any "third party specifications" or rules for it. In addition, they've never repeated a guest.

We don't know if Smash will repeat any guests. Sakurai may not. Because of this, it's better to assume one per franchise until Sakurai shows otherwise.

I do admit it's hard to give a good explanation, though. Likewise, it's hard to compare to Namco anyway. If they had a consistent style in Guests...

Soul Calibur is it's own game unlike SSB where the whole meaning of it is the Nintendo all stars, so if we had 2 character from guest franchises it won't be Nintendo all star anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

Additional Sonic characters?

Simply pull up any of the promotional material advertising a fighting game featuring Nintendo's All-Stars.

One inclusion per third party franchise is sufficient. Adding more is opening up a can of worms...if this company gets two reps, why doesn't this one as well?

Equality isn't important and it wouldn't be the first time Konami wasn't equal with others.
DreamMix TV World Fighters has an almost even amount of characters for the three companies (Konami, Takara, Hudson).
Takara and Hudson have 6 characters, Konami has 5. And this is in a collaboration, which is honestly much worse than guests as far as unequality is concerned.

And a good reason how one company gets another character over another: What if the company that got less didn't WANT another while the other did?
Equality wouldn't come into play; the company that wanted another character would get the character while the company that didn't would not.

And Snake and Sonic already killed the Nintendo All-Star deal because they aren't Nintendo. Though pretty much, Smash is about Nintendo's history, and Nintendo's history involves 3rd Parties as well, so with Sonic being a major part of Nintendo's history as the main competition to Mario for years, and having one of the most successful crossover series (note: more than one title) in Nintendo history, it shouldn't be too that Sonic would get a new character. Now two new guys is pushing it...

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Additional Sonic characters?

Simply pull up any of the promotional material advertising a fighting game featuring Nintendo's All-Stars.

One inclusion per third party franchise is sufficient. Adding more is opening up a can of worms...if this company gets two reps, why doesn't this one as well?

Totally agree, it will start giving people the idea that it can be a Nintendo vs the Sonic characters game.

HEY! You DO NOT talk to the Heropon that way. Watch your mouth!

Spoiler

Heropon make Nopon proud.

Riki listen because Riki is the Heropon. Riki can win by himself.

And also Riki heropon for Super Smash Brotherpons 4

 

[Metal Overlord]

The problem isn't really "HOLY BALLS AND PISS and **** IF THIRD PARTY SERIES GET MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER THEN Smash WON'T BE A NINTENDO ALL-STARS GAME ANYMORE "

The reason why Sonic and Metal Gear aren't gonna get a second rep most likely is because they just aren't needed at all. Who we have now are just fine, especially considering there's a chance that they may not ever make it back into Smash after Brawl. Plus, I'm sure people would much rather see a character get in from a new third party series getting in (like Mega Man), anyway

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Soul Calibur is it's own game unlike SSB where the whole meaning of it is the Nintendo all stars, so if we had 2 character from guest franchises it won't be Nintendo all star anymore.

It stopped being "Nintendo All-Stars" since Brawl.

SSB is its own series. It's characters who appeared on Nintendo systems now.

The actual story is about Master Hand re-creating the Nintendo characters so they can fight.(and expanded in Brawl)

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

It stopped being "Nintendo All-Stars" since Brawl.

SSB is its own series. It's characters who appeared on Nintendo systems now.

The actual story is about Master Hand re-creating the Nintendo characters so they can fight.(and expanded in Brawl)

Snake = Guest character

Sonic = Guest character

Last time I checked (if you insist on comparing it to Soul Calibur) I don't remember a guest character in Soul Calibur that transcended to the next game....it was one time show for them.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

If it is a game about characters who have appeared on the console, then we should be considering a lot more third party characters then. >_>

 

[Cobalsh]

We need BOTH Ghirahim and Tingle in Sm4sh. There can never be enough homoeroticism to go around, but DARN IT Sakurai needs to try.

*high fives Oasis*
Oh, and Arcade, I'm all for both of them. **** you for misunderstanding. It's just...his tower is made of carvings of...children. So, while he's odd, he's now on my list.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Snake = Guest character

Sonic = Guest character

Last time I checked (if you insist on comparing it to Soul Calibur) I don't remember a guest character in Soul Calibur that transcended to the next game....it was one time show for them.

I wasn't the first person to compare it to Soul Calibur. I even said they weren't a good comparison, or meant that.

Yes, they're guests. What you're ignoring is that once Brawl came around the "Nintendo All-Stars" was either defined as having "Characters who appeared on Nintendo" or is just about "Nintendo's History", which does include Third Parties too. It is not "Characters owned by Nintendo" anymore regardless of the two definitions that are clearly more accurate.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone's using the bull**** "guest" excuse?

Lemme pull up a certain image...

 

[Metal Overlord]

Well, it's kinda obvious why Soul Calibur doesn't keep guest characters. That series already has its own established characters and canon to deal with, so why would a character from a completely different series (like Heihachi from Tekken) that has its own characters and story to deal with stay for more than one game?

 

[Deleted member]

And Sakurai also refers to Magnus as a guest character in Kid Icarus Uprising.
So, by process of elimination, no Assist in Brawl is going to return to Smash 4, and Magnus is not going to be in another Kid Icarus game ever.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Wait, what does this have to do with third party guest characters?

And also if you mean no Assist Trophy will ever be a character, then I must say I think that is a bold assumption. If you mean that.

 

[Metal Overlord]

No Holder

What Golden meant is that by the logic of the people who say Sonic and Snake might not return due to them being "guests", they should also be saying the same thing about Assist Trophies since, as the pic Golden just posted proves, Sakurai considers them to be "guest characters" as well

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, what does this have to do with third party guest characters?

And also if you mean no Assist Trophy will ever be a character, then I must say I think that is a bold assumption. If you mean that.

Sakurai calls Snake and Sonic "guest characters".

People associate guest characters with Soul Calibur, which features guest characters that don't return in future installments (for canon and system reasons, which people don't seem to grasp...)

People assume that Snake and Sonic will not return because they are "guests"

Sakurai also calls Assist Trophy characters "guest characters".

He calls Magnus a "guest character" in Kid Icarus Uprising.

Ergo, if guests really are not allowed to stay, then no Assist Trophy that was in Brawl will return in a future Smash Bros. in any way shape or form, and Magnus will not return to the Kid Icarus series if it gets a new game in the future.

EDIT: What I mean by "canon and system reasons" is this.
In SC canon, the guests return to their home dimesions at the end of the story, and are not canon to the story anyway.

As for systems, let's take a look at who the guests are:
SCII: Link (Gamecube), Heihachi (PS2), Spawn (Xbox)
Well lookie here, three VERSION EXCLUSIVE guests that would make no sense on the other systems.
Next, we jump to SCIII which is for PS2. Do you honestly expect Link or Spawn to return? Heihachi could've returned, but he was sent back to his own time.
Next, we get SCIV, which again, could've had Heihachi and Spawn (and given the systems, PS3 and 360, they could've worked on their respective systems like before), but they were again, sent back to their own dimensions and times. Instead, we get Darth Vader, Yoda, and Starkiller, who again, leave after the events of the game. (And aren't canon)
Then comes Broken Destiny and Legends. Kratos and Lloyd Irving for the respective titles. Again, not canon and leave at the end of their games.
Now, SCV has Ezio. I don't know too much about the game, but I assume he left for his own time at the end.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

And Sakurai also refers to Magnus as a guest character in Kid Icarus Uprising.
So, by process of elimination, no Assist in Brawl is going to return to Smash 4, and Magnus is not going to be in another Kid Icarus game ever.

I tend to ignore that guy but he amazes me with his stupidness he take things too literal, it would be morally wrong to give a franchise more characters than the other franchise (if Sonic gets 2 character than MGS deserve a second character), I would agree to have 2 guest characters from one franchise if it was the only guest franchise, And about Magnus he is probably going to be Sakurai new leading character , maybe that's why he wanted to make him a guest character it would give a glimpse of him and he will be well known by the time he gets his own game, the fact he is a guest it's weird,

 

[Metal Overlord]

WAT

It's morally wrong to abuse children and have sex with people knowing that you have AIDS

Not to put in a ****ing extra character for a third party series already previously represented in Smash

And who says that the two third party series in Smash have to have equal representation, anyway, when not even the Nintendo series are like that and haven't been so since Smash 64

 

[Deleted member]

@Metal, and even then, haven't been equal to begin with, with two series having two characters while the rest have only one.

Though if you're arguing with Ike-Sama, don't bother. Just set the idiot to Ignore and be on your way.


So commands Aku.

 

[---]

I think you all are overthinking "guest" characters, but whatever there's no real argument to made with them anyway.

For fun and to maybe get some real discussion going on, here's Toise's Super Money Picks:

Spoiler

Toise's Super Money Picks:
Snake
Sonic
Mega Man
Professor Layton


---


Third Party junk in general:

Oh who the **** knows.

Okay, first things first: will 3rd parties return? Sakurai talked about how difficult it is to get them in the game, but Nintendo's been way way way more active in partnering than they've ever been (and Iwata's always talking about going even further). I'd like to think things will work better, both in terms of connections/legal junk and finding good fits.

While I personally could give a **** about Sonic and Snake, I'm still counting on them returning. Sonic has every reason to return. Snake... well, he's easily the most out-of-place character in the game. Is Kojima the kind of guy to be like "okay, I had my guy in one Smash game, that's good enough" or what? Someone here's gotta be MGS-nerd enough to give me an impression. Scroll down for more Konami talk.

For convenience sake, I'm arranging many of these by company rather than by series/character. And it should be mentioned that I consider most of these companies to be completely ********.


*** Mega Man ***

Sonic-lite as far as anyone can tell. I picture Capcom as that idiot with an obvious winning hand, but they're so convinced that they can fake someone out that they just sit there with a big stupid grin on their face.


*** Professor Layton ***

Dark horse only if you're not looking hard enough, fellas. Sakurai and Akihiro Hino are buds and Nintendo loves this series. Popular stuff that fits with the Nintendo crowd perfectly (think Mother, but less absurd and more British). Unlike with every other series, Hino's both the creator of Layton AND prez/CEO of Level-5. And he's interested, too.


*** Square-Enix ***

Could happen, definitely, and I'd be surprised to see something other than Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. It's just... yeah, they're dumb as a thumb.

Gonna give the edge to DQ for the much stronger recent connections, especially regarding Sakurai and Horii. Actually extremely similar situationally to Layton, and that's extra funny because Level-5 actually developed DQVIII and DQIX. I doubt Horii's as close to either Sakurai or Hino as those two are with each other, but that shouldn't matter. What does matter is that he's got huge pull at SE headquarters (not unlike Kojima with Konami).

Also I'm pretty sure Cloud and the other post-SNES protagonists are eligible now, but meh. FFV/FFT are best FF, bring on Bartz and Wiegraf.


*** Rare ***

Let it go, Indiana.


*** Tecmo Koei ***

I don't know much about this company, but they've been doing an awful lot of collaborating with Nintendo: Samurai Warriors and Murasame Castle, Other M, Dead or Alive and Metroid, Nobunaga's Ambition and Pokemon, Dynasty Warriors and Zelda/Metroid, probably more to come.

Who would they add? Ryu Hayhowareya maybe, but I get the feeling that they don't have anything particularly fitting for Smash. The hustle's there though, definitely.


*** Travis Touchdown ***

Kinda like Tecmo Koei if you think about it: interest is there, but not exactly a great fit.


*** Namco Bandai ***

I don't see this company being too interested despite having plenty to work with, kind of the inverse of Tecmo Koei. That's all I got because I don't care.


*** Other Sega ***

Might as well not exist.


*** Other Konami ***

Snake's the most popular Konami character by far, but he's kind of a weird fit in Smash. Simon and Castlevania would be perfect, and Bomberman wouldn't be bad either if Konami cared to use its Hudson stuff. Problem is, they're not as popular, Konami doesn't really care, Kojima probably doesn't care, the Castlevania people don't have any say (IGA's probably locked up in a dungeon right now), and the Hudson people definitely don't have a say.

I'd like to think that there's no rule against two series from one company, but it's hard to imagine things working out here even if Konami made the effort.


*** Geno ***

I don't care if Tampa misses the playoffs, Stamkos deserves the Hart.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

WAT

It's morally wrong to abuse children and have sex with people knowing that you have AIDS

Not to put in a ****ing extra character for a third party series already previously represented in Smash

And who says that the two third parties in Smash have to have equal representation, anyway, when not even the Nintendo series are like that and haven't been so since Smash 64

Are you a ****ing idiot ? SUPER SMASH BROS = NINTENDO ALL-STARS it's not 3rd parties and Nintendo all-stars it's JUST NINTENDO ALL-STARS stop changing the concept, guest character will remain and we will have more, but if you Sonic and Tails in SSB you are asking for too much because there are more deserving 3rd party characters like MEGAMAN...

 

[Metal Overlord]

Well, only the "morally wrong part" was an address to Ike Sama, the last part was where I was just speaking in general

 

[SmashChu]

Yes because Tingle's inclusion in Smash 4 will surely discourage people from playing as Ridley, Mega Man, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Palutena, etc.

Probably not, but why go and add a character no one really wants and a lot of people hate?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are you a ****ing idiot ? SUPER SMASH BROS = NINTENDO ALL-STARS it's not 3rd parties and Nintendo all-stars it's JUST NINTENDO ALL-STARS stop changing the concept, guest character will remain and we will have more, but if you Sonic and Tails in SSB you are asking for too much because there are more deserving 3rd party characters like MEGAMAN...

Sakurai changed the concept the second he put Sonic and Snake in Brawl.

Get over it, it's not what it used to be.

Likewise, unlike Melee and 64, Brawl's Box has no mention of "Nintendo All-Stars" or anywhere in the game. That has been dropped already. It stopped being applied years ago. At best it's Nintendo History(the only accurate description).

Keep in mind Snake may have been in Melee if Sakurai had more time. Who knows if he would've replaced a character slot, or just go to an empty area instead of the "Random" spot.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You know guys let's stop this ****ing 3rd parties argument now because we won't get anywhere with that, I really want to talk to you guys as friendly as possible, I'm sorry Metal Overlord because I insulted you in a whim. and Hyperfalcon guess you're right....so let's discuss more Fire Emblem into smash because today marks the release of Fire Emblem Kakusei...

 

[SmashChu]

It stopped being "Nintendo All-Stars" since Brawl.

SSB is its own series. It's characters who appeared on Nintendo systems now.

The actual story is about Master Hand re-creating the Nintendo characters so they can fight.(and expanded in Brawl)

Quote from the man himself

I can’t say that it’s entirely out of the realm of possibility that some Capcom character could appear in the next Smash Bros. The big problem, though, comes from the idea of trying to get characters from a completely different universe to fit with the style that has been dictated by Nintendo’s characters in a fighting game. In fact, I actually think it’s a miracle that we got Smash Bros. and all the Nintendo characters to work together in the first place. Especially when you bring Pokemon into the mix and a lot of the complications that are caused by that being an almost completely different entity on its own, it’s really something. So this is something that obviously will come up more as we get started on the new Smash Bros. development, but keeping those things in mind I think is important.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Alright. Moving on, I want to see what Krom fully does. I do fear he could replace Ike(or get in first) and also stop Roy from getting in.

All the more reason I'd want Hector(etc.) so that problem doesn't happen. XD

 

[Holder of the Heel]

@Golden

Interesting point. I wonder if the word guest in Japanese is maybe a bit more broad than we think it is, or "guest" is the closest word we have for translating what he means. I don't know, just stabbing in the dark. I wish I knew me some Japanese.

Are you a ****ing idiot ? SUPER SMASH BROS = NINTENDO ALL-STARS it's not 3rd parties and Nintendo all-stars it's JUST NINTENDO ALL-STARS stop changing the concept, guest character will remain and we will have more, but if you Sonic and Tails in SSB you are asking for too much because there are more deserving 3rd party characters like MEGAMAN...

Can we please discuss something here without someone getting angry and trying to offend another? This place always has bad vibes from someone, that's why I simply watched and never joined until just recently.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

@Golden

Interesting point. I wonder if the word guest in Japanese is maybe a bit more broad than we think it is, or "guest" is the closest word we have for translating what he means. I don't know, just stabbing in the dark. I wish I knew me some Japanese.



Can we please discuss something here without someone getting angry and trying to offend another? This place always has bad vibes from someone, that's why I simply watched and never joined until just recently.

I'm sorry the whim of anger took over xD.....I apologize to everyone if I somehow insulted them.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Alright. Moving on, I want to see what Krom fully does. I do fear he could replace Ike(or get in first) and also stop Roy from getting in.

All the more reason I'd want Hector(etc.) so that problem doesn't happen. XD

With Krom having Aether as a Skill, my fear rate have increased dramatically....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

With Krom having Aether as a Skill, my fear rate have increased dramatically....

Exactly.

To be fair, I would've rather had Lyn or Hector in Brawl, but honestly, I have no real complaints about Brawl's roster besides adding more(or finishing the Forbidden 7, heh) anyway.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I'm sorry the whim of anger took over xD.....I apologize to everyone if I somehow insulted them.

Its cool buddy. :D I understand.

I may be the only one, but I'm not particularly concerned how Fire Emblem is concerned, as long as we have 2-3 characters there (result of me only having rented one of the games before and that's it).

Not sure if I can afford buying their games, even if any of you say that they are very good. There are just too many games right now I need to worry about.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Exactly.

To be fair, I would've rather had Lyn or Hector in Brawl, but honestly, I have no real complaints about Brawl's roster besides adding more(or finishing the Forbidden 7, heh) anyway.

With the DLC it's now impossible to rule any character in Fire Emblem from the spot, *SPOILER ALERT*

Spoiler

Marth might be as endangered as Ike because of this beautiful girl http://serenesforest.net/fe13/img/lucina.png she is the daughter of Krom

as you can see the family is very dangerous.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Its cool buddy. :D I understand.

I may be the only one, but I'm not particularly concerned how Fire Emblem is concerned, as long as we have 2-3 characters there (result of me only having rented one of the games before and that's it).

Not sure if I can afford buying their games, even if any of you say that they are very good. There are just too many games right now I need to worry about.

You don't have 3DS with ambassador games ?? because this franchise too awesome to miss xD.

 

[Metal Overlord]

EDIT: You would apologize before I even finish my post. Ya doodiehead

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

With the DLC it's now impossible to rule any character in Fire Emblem from the spot, *SPOILER ALERT*

Spoiler

Marth might be as endangered as Ike because of this beautiful girl http://serenesforest.net/fe13/img/lucina.png she is the daughter of Krom

as you can see the family is very dangerous.

I'm not worried about Marth being replaced, though. Mostly because he's the total main hero.

The only one I could realistically see is Ninten getting rid of Ness since he's the "main" hero of the Mother series(or was first).

But eh.

Who knows what'll happen? I just hope Marth isn't unlockable this time. I actually would like to see the original 4 unlockables as starters. Tradition isn't worth it here. Jigglypuff and Luigi no longer have any business being locked, heh. IMO.

 

[---]

There isn't any real reason to replace Ike other than "revelvancy." If Krom gets in it'll be because of his own character.

FE13 borrows elements from all games in the series, including characters. I honestly am leaning towards Sakurai keeping things simple and using Marth, Ike, and Roy. Krom being related to Marth doesn't help his case either.

There are other ways of representing a series besides characters. There's no reason Masked Marth

Spoiler

(Lukina)

shouldn't be a Marth alt though.

Sakurai is a proven FE fanboy. Other than Kirby and KI, this is the series that Sakurai probably knows the best. Have some faith.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Check my edit on my last post if you haven't already, Ike Sama

Oh, and there's NO way Marth is getting replaced

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Tri I would like to point out that my third party picks are the exact same as Toise's.

Layton is mah boi.

That is all.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Check my edit on my last post if you haven't already, Ike Sama

Oh, and there's NO way Marth is getting replaced

I checked it, I'm really happy you accepted my apology.

I understand your point of view but trust me unless you don't care about spoilers go to :

*SPOILER* http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31969&st=0*SPOILER* and you will understand my concerns and TBH I'd like it if Sakurai put the possible replacement over Marth because she seems to fit the role better as a female sword fighter.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Why not just put them both in, though? Keep Marth and add

Spoiler

Lukina

as an alt. Problem solved