New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

Again, I see Palutena as more of a communication character for Pit, not unlike Snake's codecs. Sakurai has remakred positively about Pit's and Palutena's dialogue together and how they are a comedic duo.

Medusa could very well be a boss.

I have this gut feeling that we won't be getting a new KI character, despite people's beliefs that there HAS to be one just because Sakurai developed Uprising.

 

[Johnknight1]

I agree Golden. I definitely think it is most likely the only Kid Icarus character we will get is Pit yet again.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw either Paletuna or Medusa being playable in these forthcoming smash bros games, but not both.

Still, Medusa would make for a BAMF boss just like she was in the original Kid Icarus (she was kind of like Mother Brain, especially in the original Metroid).

 

[GiantBreadbug]

So, I've been playing the sh*t out of Rhythm Heaven Fever, and I will rage until the end of time if there isn't a stage that features Air Rally in some way.

I want it. I neeeed it.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

MUST... HEAR... THIS... ON A GOLDEN SUN STAGE.

I don't care. Even if Issac doesn't get in. This song must come back. Heck, this song is the only reason I slightly want Norfair back.

 

[Starphoenix]

The only thing I want from Kid Icarus: Uprising in the next Smash Bros is a stage, some music, and that beautiful Fuse Weapon system. If we could be able to mix and create new and more powerful items to use in battle ala Power Stone 2 I would be so happy. In fact, forget Street Fighter, give me some Power Stone influence. Goodness knows Capcom sure isn't going to bother.

 

[Oasis_S]

The only thing I want from Kid Icarus: Uprising in the next Smash Bros is a stage, some music, and that beautiful Fuse Weapon system. If we could be able to mix and create new and more powerful items to use in battle ala Power Stone 2 I would be so happy. In fact, forget Street Fighter, give me some Power Stone influence. Goodness knows Capcom sure isn't going to bother.

Super Scope that shoots out Dragoons.

 

[Kolorado]

That's a different debate. I'm merely stating that Paletuna is probably more important in Uprising (like she arguably is in the first 2 Kid Icarus games), therefore I think she is more likely, especially given that Sakurai is making the game, and will probably choose the more important character. Plus we haven't exactly played as either Paletuna or Medusa.

And we also haven't been able to play as Ridley yet!!!
You know what time it is=???
IT'S THE RAGE RIDLEY ISN'T IN SMASH AS A PLAYABLE CHARACTER YET HOUR!!!

Ridley isn't happy about it either...

 

[Starphoenix]

Daybreak that shoots out Dragoons.

Fixed your quote.

No seriously though I would be all for having more items in the next game if they could just do something a little more unique with them. You know, make the rarer items a challenge to get. Like what Kid Icarus: Uprising in doing. It is features like this that extend the playability of the game and give the game more charm.

 

[SmashChu]

Arguing against ideas and having nothing to contribute?

Yeah, you go girl. Fight the power, et cetera.

I like how, when questioned on arguing against results with nothing your response is "Uh Uh, your not contributing."

 

[---]

I think Kuma's mind was just blown.

The only thing I want from Kid Icarus: Uprising in the next Smash Bros is a stage, some music, and that beautiful Fuse Weapon system. If we could be able to mix and create new and more powerful items to use in battle ala Power Stone 2 I would be so happy. In fact, forget Street Fighter, give me some Power Stone influence. Goodness knows Capcom sure isn't going to bother.

Same here (I'm not sure about the Fuse system though), a character is just the icing on the cake for me. I've never played Power Stone before, could you explain a bit?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Super Scope that shoots out Dragoons.

Dear Jeezum... Mind=Blown.

Cracker Launchers that shoot Pokeballs(which open when they hit the ground).
Hammer-weilding placeable Bob-ombs.
Flaming Bumpers.
Health restoring explosive traps.

My Gawsh, the insanity is endless.

 

[Oasis_S]

Fixed your quote.

No seriously though I would be all for having more items in the next game if they could just do something a little more unique with them. You know, make the rarer items a challenge to get. Like what Kid Icarus: Uprising in doing. It is features like this that extend the playability of the game and give the game more charm.

HMMM, would a problem arise when trying to combine items from different series? Uprising obviously doesn't have that problem since, from the start, none of the items were meant to look like they belonged in a Kid Icarus game.

 

[Starphoenix]

HMMM, would a problem arise when trying to combine items from different series? Uprising obviously doesn't have that problem since, from the start, none of the items were meant to look like they belonged in a Kid Icarus game.

Nope, that would be the fun. Put in, say, a Koopa Shell and a Franklin Badge and out comes a Thunderbolt. Something like that.

Same here (I'm not sure about the Fuse system though), a character is just the icing on the cake for me. I've never played Power Stone before, could you explain a bit?

I could, but it would be too long. I did the largest write up I ever made on a forum on this premise of mine months ago, I'll look for it some time. For now I would just recommend going to Youtube and looking for "Power Stone 2 item mixing" or something along those lines. Seriously, only those that know what the mixing system in that game is like will understand where I am coming from.

Surprised we are not talking about the latest KI Iwata Asks.

Iwata: Broadly speaking, the Kid Icarus: Uprising game has two modes, right?

Sakurai: Yes. A single-player story mode and a battle mode for up to six players.

Iwata: When I saw the battle mode, one of the things I thought was that this was how the Super Smash Bros. games would look like in 3D. In many ways, like the fast pace, for example.

Sakurai: I think a good number of people feel the same way. I think some people, when they first saw the multiplayer battle video for Nintendo Direct this time2, were taken aback by the whirl of activity.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@SmashChu Are you going to update that rostery thing in your signature soon, or are you content with it as it is? I'm not trying to berate your choices or say that the roster is bad, I'm just wondering if you plan on updating/elaborating. Roster discussion is a guilty pleasure of mine.

Cracker Launchers that shoot Pokeballs(which open when they hit the ground).

Oh. My. God.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's it. I'm out. I can never win these arguments. Why I do this to myself, I'll never know.

 

[SmashChu]

The only thing I want from Kid Icarus: Uprising in the next Smash Bros is a stage, some music, and that beautiful Fuse Weapon system. If we could be able to mix and create new and more powerful items to use in battle ala Power Stone 2 I would be so happy. In fact, forget Street Fighter, give me some Power Stone influence. Goodness knows Capcom sure isn't going to bother.

This is all you ever want.

@SmashChu Are you going to update that rostery thing in your signature soon, or are you content with it as it is? I'm not trying to berate your choices or say that the roster is bad, I'm just wondering if you plan on updating/elaborating. Roster discussion is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I will. I'm working on something. Just haven't gotten around to making good enough progress. And now worries. Rosters are always fun to discuss.

 

[Kolorado]

Iwata: "When I saw the battle mode, one of the things I thought was that this was how the Super Smash Bros. games would look like in 3D. In many ways, like the fast pace, for example."

That's an interesting idea. What if the Smash Bros. series made the move into 3D? Hmmm...

 

[Deleted member]

That's it. I'm out. I can never win these arguments. Why I do this to myself, I'll never know.

And not a **** was given that day.


Anyways, on-topic, I find it funny that Sakurai assumes that people viewed the multiplayer as if it were like a 3D Smash Bros.
If only he knew how right he was.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why I'm visualizing Bayonetta for a 3D Smash?

 

[---]

Looking at the fuse system, I'm starting to get the feeling that if it is true and is combined with customization, we may see some sort of separate collectable outside of stickers (fusing stickers just sounds weird IMO).

 

[Johnknight1]

MUST... HEAR... THIS... ON A GOLDEN SUN STAGE.

I don't care. Even if Issac doesn't get in. This song must come back. Heck, this song is the only reason I slightly want Norfair back.

Co-signed. That song was, along with that one metal song from some obscure Japan-only game, the only good songs on that stage... and they were both epic!!!

The only thing I want from Kid Icarus: Uprising in the next Smash Bros is a stage, some music, and that beautiful Fuse Weapon system. If we could be able to mix and create new and more powerful items to use in battle ala Power Stone 2 I would be so happy. In fact, forget Street Fighter, give me some Power Stone influence. Goodness knows Capcom sure isn't going to bother.

Agreed... although I haven't played Power Stone since I was in like Elementary School, which makes it hard to remember that well...

But fusing weapons/items just sounds amazingly epic! SIGN ME UP!!!!

Ridley isn't happy about it either...

Yeah I know. I can understand R.O.B. But man, Brawl would be so much more epic with RIDLEY!!! That and this song as a playable track.

 

[Starphoenix]

This is all you ever want.

"Such a guilty pleasure"

BTW, here is another good nugget:

Iwata: When Super Smash Bros. came out, regardless of its distinctive strategic elements, people compared it in the context of previous fighting games, and some had said, "It's approachable, but a little bland and shallow." So after the game went on sale, we started the Smash Bros. DOJO!!4 website and visited media entities and people who looked like they might understand and explained it to them in our efforts to continue communicating the appeal of this game. This was around 1999, before I moved to Nintendo.

Sakurai: Over ten years ago.

Iwata: Back then, unlike today, it was not common to talk about these information through the Internet, and Super Smash Bros. looked at first glance like it was similar to games up to that point, but it wasn't, which was difficult to convey.

Sakurai: That's right.

Iwata: It took quite a lot of time and energy until Super Smash Bros. spread to a large number of people.

Sakurai: Yes. But eventually it found a broader support base.

Iwata: That's right.

....

Iwata: Like the more you chew it, the more flavor comes out?

Sakurai: Rather, since the rules are so different from convention, people who are especially used to games may have a difficult time comprehending it at first.

 

[Oasis_S]

Nope, that would be the fun. Put in, say, a Koopa Shell and a Franklin Badge and out comes a Thunderbolt. Something like that.

AH, Okay.

I like the idea of STORING items, and I wonder if maybe you were holding two items at once, if you could combine them for something better. That probably doesn't fit into what you had in mind though. It's more of a SYSTEM OF REWARDS, right?

Also, I hope Sakurai creates a DUD item. It will be the new tripping. "Starman + Gold Hammer = POOP. AHAHAHA ISN'T THAT FUNNY."

 

[Big-Cat]

I should get to reading that.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

STAAAAAAAAR. Please link meh to the Iwata Asks Uprising business? I'm much too busy with homework or something to go find it.

Also, I think that items being unlockable would be a great, fantastic thing. Expand on the unlockable ATs and make it apply to Pokeballs and other items. Extends life of the game, plus we love unlocking things.

 

[Big-Cat]

STAAAAAAAAR. Please link meh to the Iwata Asks Uprising business? I'm much too busy with homework or something to go find it.

Also, I think that items being unlockable would be a great, fantastic thing. Expand on the unlockable ATs and make it apply to Pokeballs and other items. Extends life of the game, plus we love unlocking things.

Here you go.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/kidicarus/0/0

Come to think of it, I wonder why there weren't unlockable items.

 

[Kolorado]

I would like the characters themselves to be customizable. Similar to Dissidia Final Fantasy.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Adventure Mode should be like this.
It IS a kid playing with toys in SSB64.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Here you go.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/kidicarus/0/0

Come to think of it, I wonder why there weren't unlockable items.

Many thanks.

And yeah, Pokeballs and ATs would reeeealy benefit from this.

 

[Starphoenix]

AH, Okay.

I like the idea of STORING items, and I wonder if maybe you were holding two items at once, if you could combine them for something better. That probably doesn't fit into what you had in mind though. It's more of a SYSTEM OF REWARDS, right?

Also, I hope Sakurai creates a DUD item. It will be the new tripping. "Starman + Gold Hammer = POOP. AHAHAHA ISN'T THAT FUNNY."

Kind of. In the model I am basing this off of, Power Stone 2, you went through their Adventure Mode, and each item you picked up would be added towards a collection. So if adventure mode you picked up say ten bazookas at the end of the mode it would be tallied along with all of the other items. This means when you go to the item mixing shop you have ten bazookas you can mix. Mixing items could either be successful or unsuccessful. Sometimes when you mix items you would produce items you already have, and other times you would get new or more powerful items. Over time you would learn what combinations of items would yield what results; not only this but you could purchase recipes that show you what combinations produce which particular item.

I doubt Super Smash Bros will ever have a system in place as in depth as the one in Power Stone, but if it just had a little bit I think it would make for a fun new mode and way to deal with items.

Now I want to go play my Power Stone Collection for my PSP. lol

 

[Johnknight1]

Did you guys know that HAL Laboratories first game was on the MSX2=??? Your mind has officially been blown!!!

Also, Smash Bros. Wii U's Adventure Mode should play more like a platformer like Mario. Also if let's say you are in the Zelda universe, it should have some "Zelda elements" in the gameplay, presentation, etc (like enemies have shields that can block attacks).

Edit: I remember Power Stone 2 a little better now. I played that a few years ago. That game's Adventure Mode was... weird. Actually the whole game was weird.

@ TheFirstPoppyBro
Funny story bro!

 

[Kolorado]

Adventure Mode should be like this.
It IS a kid playing with toys in SSB64.

Yes. Yes it should.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Holy Lord. Iwata will not give Sakurai a break about Smash Bros. You would think that the interview is about Smash rather than Uprising. I almost feel sorry for Sakurai, knowing that everyone will always ***** him out for Smash Bros. Then I lose that sympathy knowing that making Smash Bros. is literally the best job in the universe. I would let Nintendo shackle me into making those games for the rest of my life. So hard.

@John I'll have to post my story mode ideas in a blog sometime. I think they're pretty in depth and solid. Which means they'll never happen.

 

[Johnknight1]

Nah that interview is long. Sakurai mentions Smash Bros in like 3 questions out of like... 50. That's not that big of a deal. Sakurai did the same thing with his interview of the guys who made Pokémon Black and White.

And I'm pretty sure Sakurai is free to do whatever series he wants now that he has made Nintendo MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!! (perhaps BILLIONS!) Literally everything Sakurai does PRINTS MONEY!!!

And I would definitely like to see some of the ideas you guys have for an Adventure Mode (you too GiantBreadbug). Hopefully the Adventure Mode focuses on the... YOU KNOW! Adventure of Nintendo (and the represented 3rd party) WORLDS! On, you know, AN ADVENTURE!!! A FUN ADVENTURE!!! AN ADVENTURE ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO PLAY!!!

 

[Big-Cat]

For Smash Bros., rather than listening to the testers’ opinions, we watched videos of battles between the testers, studied their stats, tactics and traits, and determined the parameters then. Surprisingly, a lot of the times, the testers’ opinions are biased and it’s difficult to grasp the changes in the strength of the moves each day. This time, we wanted to draw out the opinions of the testers more correctly. But instead of simply swallowing whatever opinions arose, we tried first dividing into one-on-one and three-on-three teams and checking the opinions from each other’s point of view. For example, if a three-on-three team said, “This is too strong, so make it weaker,” a one-on-one team might say, “No, it has such-and-such an effect, and so you can’t weaken it.”

Come to think of it, how exactly are games requiring more than two players normally balanced? It's already a pain when it's one on one.

Oh, and I noticed that Sakurai was commenting on only getting 5/16 trials in some fighting game (I can't figure out which one it is.). Don't feel bad, Sakurai, most of those trials are downright impractical and their sole purpose is to be an execution test and/or to show what you can do for combos.

One thing I'm confused about though is that he mentions that he didn't want to limit the tactics of the genres he's disassembling and reassembling (I really like that term), yet a number of things taken out (wavedashing, aerial momentum) and things added in (random tripping) reduce the tactics in Smash. I'm reading this interview, and it's starting to sound more and more like Brawl was a contradiction in his philosophy. Either his philosophy has changed over time, he's lying, or he didn't have as much control over Brawl as he lets on.

And one more thing. DOES THIS GUY NOT AGE?!

 

[Starphoenix]

One thing I'm confused about though is that he mentions that he didn't want to limit the tactics of the genres he's disassembling and reassembling (I really like that term), yet a number of things taken out (wavedashing, aerial momentum) and things added in (random tripping) reduce the tactics in Smash. I'm reading this interview, and it's starting to sound more and more like Brawl was a contradiction in his philosophy. Either his philosophy has changed over time, he's lying, or he didn't have as much control over Brawl as he lets on.

Or how about he just did not execute every aspect as well as it could have been? From the very start Sakurai let it be known he was trying to take a different route with Brawl, by focusing on aerial combat. He also made the mistake, which he himself admits slightly, of trying to balance everything himself rather than delegating some of the responsibility or approaching the situation differently. That does not mean that there exists some discrepancy between what Sakurai has stated and what he did with Brawl. If there is it is only because people driven by their presuppositions of how Smash Bros should look view it as such.

With that I am out.

 

[Johnknight1]

I personally felt the Adventure Mode in Melee and Brawl had a lot of positive elements that could be taken, especially Melee. My biggest gripe with the Melee Adventure Mode is the limited "Adventuring." I like the platformer "explore stuff" parts. The Mushroom Kingdom opening area, the Zelda Temple, the Big Blue race track, the Infinite Glacier level, etc. I didn't even mind the random (yet pointless) Metroid "Finish Quickly OR DIE!!!" level. I want more of these, with lots of paths, and for each franchise.

Imagine going through the whole first world (1-1, 1-2, 1-3, and the Bowser level) of Super Mario Bros (which would be really easy to do; Sakurai already did half of that in Brawl with Mushroomy Kingdom). Or all 100 Meters of Donkey Kong. All of the original Green Hill Zone stage. The Dr. Wily level from the original Mega Man. That one Landmaster level in Star Fox 64 with the train (imagine having to rush on that train while it's getting bombarded!). Shadow Moses Island like straight out of Metal Gear Solid. Threed from EarthBound (now featuring REAL ZOMBIES!!!). We could take a stroll down Victory Road. Or go on an adventure through Yoshi's Island. We could go on a mine cart through a huge mine on Donkey Kong Isle. We could explore the Underworld from Kid Icarus. Go through craziness Wario Land style. We could get trapped in *GASP* Luigi's Mansion! Or perhaps you would rather take a stroll through a recreated Dark World from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past=??? Perhaps we could do an epic climb up one of the light houses from Golden Sun=??? Maybe you would like to explore Lower Norfair from Super Metroid=??? Phendra Drifts from Metroid Prime=???

We already explored the Haleberd in Brawl. NOW We can actually explore something that isn't something you go "meah" to!

My other gripe with the Melee Adventure Mode is there is very limited options. The only like 6 fights with an option. I think we need more random. Why not create an entire Adventure Mode (like Melee) where all-let's say 20-levels are random=??? Like for instance, there are 5 different stages Mario that could appear at any of the non-boss/ending stages in the Adventure Mode. Maybe once you play all the levels you could also choose the order, too. I dunno. I just think having options and different paths would make it more exciting and fresh.

 

[Big-Cat]

Or how about he just did not execute every aspect as well as it could have been? From the very start Sakurai let it be known he was trying to take a different route with Brawl, by focusing on aerial combat. He also made the mistake, which he himself admits slightly, of trying to balance everything himself rather than delegating some of the responsibility or approaching the situation differently. That does not mean that there exists some discrepancy between what Sakurai has stated and what he did with Brawl. If there is it is only because people driven by their presuppositions of how Smash Bros should look view it as such.

With that I am out.

That leaves more questions though. Why focus more on aerial combat? Why nerf the ground game in the process? I really wish we had gotten answers on these questions.

 

[Johnknight1]

If anything, I think that most characters need a better air game. One of the things that keep some of the best characters are a lot of viable aerials. Most characters have at least a decent aerial, but most or nearly all of the high tier characters have at least 2 GREAT aerials.

Meta Knight has 5. Meanwhile, Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, King Dedede, Pikachu, Wario, Captain Olimar, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, and other top and high tier characters have 3 or 4 GREAT AERIALS.

Ganondorf, Zelda, Link, and Jigglypuff have like... one or none in terms of GREAT AERIALS. All their aerials are below average for nearly the rest of the cast.

I also think a lot of the heavier characters need either more super early kill power in their smash attacks and/or to have less cool down and/or/especially warmup time.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why not improve their ground game as well?