New Smash Bros for WiiU

[yani]

I think that will mean the roster is permanent or near permanent for future smash bros games, and that even if some characters don't return in the next game, they may return in the future. Personally if a character didn't make one game, I would be very delighted to see them return in the next. That way, no character addition is taken lightly, and every character in the series gets to share the spotlight.

By the time Smash 5 is announced we'll have the technology to fit 200 characters

 

[Johnknight1]

Boshi is going to be an alt.

Sorry for that, just needed to post at least once today.

This is amongst the best posts in the thread, especially since Boshi is totally a BAMF!

The different moves are specifically because he can't kick like Link can.

Still, they are nice additions, and really "complete" Toon Link's aerial game. Regardless of why these changes happened, they still made Toon Link a much different character than Link play-style wise. Regardless of what they change, I will be happy with Toon Link/Young Link forever, especially if Toon Link's basic play style is retained. To be entirely honest, Toon Link's fun and unique play style is the only reason I really pop open my disc of Brawl anymore. There's not a whole else more in the game to really attract me to keep coming back, since the gameplay as a whole is too defensive and too "stale" for my tastes. This is why I so strong desire Toon Link's play style to carry over into the next smash game's Young Link, especially if the game retains the Smash 64/Melee standard of smash bros.

Meta Ridley is still purple. All his organic parts retain his purple scales.

In Brawl, yes. But in Metroid Prime he appeared to be much of a lighter shade of purple. If Meta Ridley was an alternate outfit, I would prefer him to have that lighter shade of purple like in Metroid Prime (rather than the having the same color of purple as regular Ridley did in Brawl). I dunno, I just like it that way more. That's how I visualize Meta Ridley, even still after Brawl made Ridley's skin color as before he became Meta Ridley.

 

[SmashChu]

I just don't understand the hate.

How is the hate not obvious. You talk about Impa in every post and post one in every 3-4 post. It's like the only thing in the thread is Impa. You doing a week doesn't matter because you'll ruin the thread again in another week.

You can talk about Impa, every now and then. Once in a blue moon. Just not every post. That's the hate.

 

[Deleted member]

I respect your opinion, Johnknight.

Me personally, I would rather see Meta Ridley for multiple reasonings that I am going to make an essay for, one of which is that he BREAKS THE "TOO BIG" ARGUMENT. Especially his appearance in Brawl, which is (ironically) smaller than Ridley's appearance. (Bodywise. Wingspan and tail length makes him seem much larger than he really is.)

 

[yani]

Ridley's trophy size seems perfect..yee or neigh?

 

[Johnknight1]

I respect your opinion, Johnknight.

Me personally, I would rather see Meta Ridley for multiple reasonings that I am going to make an essay for, one of which is that he BREAKS THE "TOO BIG" ARGUMENT. Especially his appearance in Brawl, which is (ironically) smaller than Ridley's appearance. (Bodywise. Wingspan and tail length makes him seem much larger than he really is.)

Meah, I don't really care too much one way or another about which Ridley, but I think both would be best. and I definitely think that "Too big" argument is stupid. "Too confusing, and too complex" on the other hand, is actually a legitimate argument, since Sakurai used it. From what I can tell from that IGN interview where Ridley was mentioned to Sakurai, Ridley was just outside the roster list from what. I definitely think Ridley was considered, and I have even more reasons to think so now. Seriously, who else is as big as Ridley that is Nintendo owned that hasn't been playable in smash=??? Just Dixie Kong and King K. Rool! (no size pun intended)

Speaking of which, how big do all envision Ridley in smash=??? I envision him a bit bigger than in the Melee opening but with a larger wing span.

 

[Deleted member]

Nay. His body is smaller than Samus, trophy-wise.

I envision him around this size. (No resizes were made)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7eV5SiJ50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZqZPJiZKE

 

[Johnknight1]

I envision him around this size. (No resizes were made)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7eV5SiJ50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZqZPJiZKE

I picture him just a bit smaller wingspan-wise, but the body is about what I imagine.

Also, this will be exactly what my reaction will be when Ridley is finally playable in smash bros

Spoiler

17.

Seriously though, when Ridley is confirmed, it will be all homo from there!

 

[Deleted member]

How about these size wings?

Surprising that they are smaller in the art for him than in-game.
But the in-game body plus the art wings equals perfect size, right?

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, that wing size is about right (maybe a tad bigger).

I think this discussion is leading me to think that there is SOOOOOOO MUCH you can do with Ridley's body size, wingspan, and overall how he plays that it could be totally overwhelming. Think about it. Ridley could have a body smaller than Samus, or a body about as big as Ganondorf's. He could play all air camper and potentially break the game, or be able to hover slightly off the stage and dominate in the air and ground.

However Ridley is developed as a playable character, it better be done more closely than any smash newcomer, except for maybe Meta Knight and that early idea/development project of a Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong duo. Hopefully Sakurai figures it out, and makes it the way we all want Ridley to be-broken balance.

 

[Big-Cat]

And I really hope Wolf returns in the next smash bros. I like him as a character, and I think his move set, movement, and really everything about him fits perfectly into the schematics of the smash bros universe. Plus in a more combo-orientated smash bros game, I think he would really be bad a**. He just seems built for a more combo-orientated and smart "limit and control your opponent" offensive-based smash bros game with the way he plays.

I just want his specials to be different, more feral. BTW, I don't know if you've seen this, but I want you to look at this. The only thing I know will be controversial is the DI thing.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14031894&postcount=78785

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly Kuma I already read that.

I'm not sure about Neo Wave Dashing, but I think if we get auto L-cancelling (so that way the IC can stop screwing with my timing in Melee) and real dash dancing fixes a lot. I do think wave landing definitely should return.

Giving tether grab users an alternative grab makes sense, especially if we get two "Z" buttons (or you could just maybe press down and Z for one, or maybe make one A + L and the other just Z). I also think there should be 8 angles of grab throws instead of just 4 to add variety (since basically currently there are just 3 grabs with 1 at 2 angles, and the extra 4 add 2 grabs at 2 angles each).

The Grab breaks makes sense, but it doesn't sound like it would happen much.

The other movement ideas I like, although I hope that the cancel techniques wouldn't allow for Smash 64-esk zero to death combos (keep 'em short, keep 'em simple).

I think blocking doesn't add anything, but I do think if you perfect shield it should temporarily stun foes. However, I think the extra shield (when you light press the shield) and shields in general need to last for a shorter amount of time (but have more options out of them). I also think when opponents are hit in a shield, they get pushed back, which would include them being pushed off the stage and onto a ledge (or into the air).

I think an infinite air dodge system like Brawl's mixed with a momentum controlling air dodge system like Melee is the perfect route, with or without wave dashing. It just adds options, without being too cheap. However, there should be somewhere in between the vulnerable frames of Melee and Brawl for air dodging and side step dodging.

I don't like any of those options for attacks, although if a 5th smash attack was added (like a A+B attack) I wouldn't mind.

Overall I like the movement and DI stuff, but those attack addition ideas I'm not big on. Maybe adding the extra smash attack (that would be a legit kill move) for an A+B attack would, but that's about it.

On a side note, I think footstool hopping at high percentages should be able to spike kill characters. I think that would force less campiness below the stage for damaged characters. I also think that there needs to be a heck of a lot less invincibility frames as there was in Brawl (Melee had it perfected).

Another idea: have more charged special attacks. You know, a Super Falcon Punch! A longer range Falcon Kick! A more powerful PK Flash! A stronger peanut gun shot! A faster missile from Samus! A stronger hammer attack from Kirby. A farther minion throw for King Dedede! A farther reaching Tornado from Meta Knight! A longer reaching PK Fire! A farther reaching Phantom Fox! A thunder attack that drops another thunder or two! A pound that chains out up to five times automatically (with super armor; afterwards, Jiggz is super vulnerable). A Bowser Claw that reaches out even further. All of this could be possible... if you just hold down B!

On the reverse, have moves like Falco's laser automatically, Mario's fireballs fire automatically, or even use Ness or Lucas' PK Shield when holding down the button (just like what happened with the A basic attack in Brawl). Again, just hold down B! Plus while doing this, you could also be able to move, jump, and move all over.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He looks more like he's wearing armor than being remade. Reminds me of Mewtwo.

 

[plokoon9619]

Ridley needs to be the biggest character or not be playable at all. The size in those videos are just perfect and I'm sure it could be adjusted for platform maps, its not like Gigabowser/Gigapuff fit on the map when they use their FS.

 

[Johnknight1]

He looks more like he's wearing armor than being remade. Reminds me of Mewtwo.

Maybe that is where they got the idea from...

Here's an old response...

Spoiler

The goal of my rebooted roster is to make Smash 4 NOT Brawl 2.0. You want Jigglypuff, Ness, Captain Falcon, Falco, Sheik, Toon Link? Go play Brawl or ask for Smash 5. This isn't Brawl 2.0, this is Smash 4. This is a sequel, not an expansion. New characters take priority over old characters. I'm not very conservative when it comes to cutting. Remember what ChronoBound asked us last night?

Why fix what's not broken=???The roster is what makes smash smash. If you take out all the characters the fans like, then you got an awkward Street Fighter-Mario Party-Super Mario 64 inbred animal as a video game (or as I call it, that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fighting game), and that won't sell as much. The answer is as simple as that. Cut those characters, and you lose that money. In this economy, nobody can afford to lose money.

That roster with those boring characters would honestly just make me think smash bros is trying to be like Netflix; trying to change everything to make it more "focused" and "fresh," but ultimate a quarter of your customers leave you. Removing all of that basically tells the fans "hey, the previous games' rosters aren't what we want, so we want different," which the fans disagree with. Basically, keep "Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars" in Nintendo's greatest crossover game, otherwise it is the same as that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Fighting game, only with unknown characters and a bigger budget.

This is now what I think of when I think of Ghirahim...

 

[Luco]

Urg, guys, we're getting tight again... For a moment we should all post about what we would love to see in smash, not necessarily what SHOULD be in smash or what we believe will happen. It would just help creativity, IMO.

Sorry, it's just going around in circles here has made me a bit tired, hehe.

Anyway, if there was just one thing I would LOVE to see in smash, it would be no cuts with a bigger cast. that is to say, add in some melee cuts, and I wish the roster would be at least around 60, which would allow smaller franchises a bigger chance in...

It probably won't happen, but it'd be nice.

 

[Baskerville]

Just make Wolf's recovery better and change his d-throw. His d-throw is ***.

 

[Luco]

Awesome. Also, remember, no downing on other people's wishes. thats why they're called wishes. they're sacred things.

 

[Johnknight1]

A ton of old responses.

Spoiler

Funny considering these characters have their fans. They have to like them for something about their character.

A lot more people hate Krystal and the post-Star Fox 64 Star Fox series than like them. Krystal is the symbol of the degrading quality of Star Fox, and why the series, aside from the original, it's remake, and it's remake's remake, is NOTHING! More people bought Star Fox alone and Star Fox 64 alone than Star Fox Adventures, Assault, and Command combined!

Most of the people who want her playable in smash bros are either furries, want a staff-based character, or think that Adventures, Assault, and/or Command are better than Star Fox 1, 2, 64, and 64 3D (which is like 5% of the people who actually bought a Star Fox game). Star Fox, the original, 64, and 64 3D aside, is a smaller franchise in terms of sales than Mother! MOTHER!!! A series that only had one game leave Japan!!! The franchise is nothing in most people's eyes without those games.

Actually, interestingly enough, Sakurai did not plan for Melee to be competitive. He did not think it was completely bad, but really preferred the casual crowd(well, let's be honest, I can see why with how rude and elitist competitive players act, especially top players sometimes. Not that they're all, but it does happen, and I've seen quite a few pathetic examples of this. How they're in the Brawl Back Room is funny. They're a very poor representation of the community, really)

If you've gone to any tournament, this isn't true. I've met Mango, and he was polite and either calm or crazy. Isai is totally calm and respectful. HugS is very friendly and chill.

OH MAH GAWSH...I LOVE this remix.

I think everybody does. The anime actually had some great remixes and variations of songs from the games, especially early on in the series.

Why the hell are you people still here, watch the Super Bowl goddammit

Pretty much my thoughts in review of reading your guys' posts.

I'm not watching it because my team isn't in it.

Considered this, but couldn't resist. Watching my team (whom I know every single players' name by heart) lose because of a billionaires son fumble twice because he was an idiot enrages me!!! CURSE YOU KYLE WILLIAMS!!! CURSE YOU!!!

Canadian

Well ever since Warren Moon, Cameron Wake, and others left your country for the big bucks, you lost all your league's good players, so watch ours!

By the way guys, I found a video from the future. This is Diddy Kong's reaction video of when Sheik returns in smash, and Impa is made into a background character next to Old Man, Link's Uncle, the King of Hyrule (CD-i version), and some random Goron named Henry.

By the way, I think this guy would seriously upset asage.

 

[Luco]

I go to tournaments..........

Yay....?

Diddy, you'll probably hate me for saying this, but i was just telling my brother about some of the things that have been going on in here, and when i told him about the sheik vs. Impa argument, he goes, "Who's Impa?". Btw he's 8 years older than me and the reason why I play zelda.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Did he play Skyward Sword?

And feel like taking on my challenge??

 

[Arcadenik]

Maybe that is where they got the idea from...

Here's an old response...

Spoiler

Why fix what's not broken=???The roster is what makes smash smash. If you take out all the characters the fans like, then you got an awkward Street Fighter-Mario Party-Super Mario 64 inbred animal as a video game (or as I call it, that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fighting game), and that won't sell as much. The answer is as simple as that. Cut those characters, and you lose that money. In this economy, nobody can afford to lose money.

That roster with those boring characters would honestly just make me think smash bros is trying to be like Netflix; trying to change everything to make it more "focused" and "fresh," but ultimate a quarter of your customers leave you. Removing all of that basically tells the fans "hey, the previous games' rosters aren't what we want, so we want different," which the fans disagree with. Basically, keep "Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars" in Nintendo's greatest crossover game, otherwise it is the same as that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Fighting game, only with unknown characters and a bigger budget.

This is now what I think of when I think of Ghirahim...

But I don't want all future Smash games to keep reusing the same rosters from previous games with a couple new characters thrown in. I want a sequel, not an expansion.

If Smash 4 only has 45 slots and it doesn't cut anyone from Brawl and readds Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario... that's 38 veterans so far... and then adds 7 newcomers: Mega Man, King K. Rool, Ghirahim or Toon Zelda/Sheik, Palutena or Medusa, Samurai Goroh, Krystal, and Ridley. That's it.

Then come Smash 5 and it only has 55 slots, we don't cut anyone from Smash 4... that leaves us with 10 available slots for newcomers... it adds the following: Toad or Bowser Jr., Dixie Kong, the remaining Kid Icarus goddess, Golden Sun character, Sin & Punishment character, Starfy, Takamaru, 6th or 7th gen Pokemon, Little Mac, and new Fire Emblem lord.

Then in Smash 6, no one gets cut and it gets 65 slots...10 newcomers are: one character from each of the following (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby, Star Fox, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Punch-Out) and a character from a future new series.

I might as well just skip over Smash 4 and Smash 5 and just buy Smash 6 in 20 years from now because it will have all the characters from the last five games.

 

[Oasis_S]

Boo hoo I'm pessimistic wah.

 

[Pichu Fan]

Pichu Bro in the house!

Magicarp for smash 4

 

[Diddy Kong]

Magikarp would make an awesome Pokeball Pokemon. Would replace Goldeen, but be actually useful. You could pick him up, and swing with him as if it's a battering weapon, but it's just a little stronger than the Fan, but as slow as a Beam Sword, as well as a lot less ranged. But if he's been used a lot to hit others with, he'll turn into Gyrados, who would Hyper Beam everything in sight for massive damage, then disapear.

 

[Arcadenik]

Boo hoo I'm pessimistic wah.

At least I won't end up feeling disappointed and bitter when Smash 4 comes out the way the "everyone must stay" crowd wants. On the other hand, they will be butthurt and going into nerd rage when it cuts some characters. At least I've prepared myself for the possible worst case scenario.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm hoping for the best case scenario, cause it's likely to be the last game I'll ever buy, unless they really bring back DKC in true fashion. Not that I could complain about Returns, but more is better.

And if Diddy is somehow cut, I'll really boycot this game. Wouldn't even touch it.

 

[Oasis_S]

Well, this song was kind of the prominent one in the N64 title (also served as the credits theme). With a little arranging I think it would make a suitable theme for Saki.

Shoot, Youtube took down most of the Sin and Punishment music from both games.

Oh crap Youtube took down the OSTstation Youtube channel! Shoot there goes the music for most of my stage concepts. O_O

I forgot to say TANKOO Star. :3

And I'm Sorry for your loss. >:

No, this feeling of loss should be Shared by many Nintendo fans.

BUT ANYWAY, I do like this song. It has a tinge of HARDSHIP to it, yet also a little feeling of HOPE. That fits Saki and the series rather well I think. Would your idea of ARRANGING be to sort of give it that sort of.. fast, techno/rock/metal (I'UNNO) sound to it? To make it more like the other songs in the game?

@Arcadenik: "I'm going to expect the worst to save myself from feeling sad! You're all fools for feeling excitement!"

 

[Arcadenik]

@Arcadenik: "I'm going to expect the worst to save myself from feeling sad! You're all fools for feeling excitement!"

Sure, I'll be looking forward to read all the butthurt posts after Smash 4 comes out.

I'm hoping for the best case scenario, cause it's likely to be the last game I'll ever buy, unless they really bring back DKC in true fashion. Not that I could complain about Returns, but more is better.

And if Diddy is somehow cut, I'll really boycot this game. Wouldn't even touch it.

Even if Impa is in the game?

 

[yani]

@Diddy what do you think abou giving Diddy Kong the move from DKCR when he stomps on the ground and shoots the gun? This could replace the bananas

 

[SmashChu]

But I don't want all future Smash games to keep reusing the same rosters from previous games with a couple new characters thrown in. I want a sequel, not an expansion.

I don't think you know what a sequel is. A sequel is a continuation of the series. Sequels tend to add characters while keeping the same cast. At least for fighting games. Nothing in a sequel implies almost starting over.

If Smash 4 only has 45 slots and it doesn't cut anyone from Brawl and readds Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario... that's 38 veterans so far... and then adds 7 newcomers: Mega Man, King K. Rool, Ghirahim or Toon Zelda/Sheik, Palutena or Medusa, Samurai Goroh, Krystal, and Ridley. That's it.


Then come Smash 5 and it only has 55 slots, we don't cut anyone from Smash 4... that leaves us with 10 available slots for newcomers... it adds the following: Toad or Bowser Jr., Dixie Kong, the remaining Kid Icarus goddess, Golden Sun character, Sin & Punishment character, Starfy, Takamaru, 6th or 7th gen Pokemon, Little Mac, and new Fire Emblem lord.

Why is it only going to be 45 and 55? Why is it jumping by 10. I'd like to see your crystal ball. Otherwise, your trying to find patterns where there are none.

Then in Smash 6, no one gets cut and it gets 65 slots...10 newcomers are: one character from each of the following (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby, Star Fox, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Punch-Out) and a character from a future new series.

I might as well just skip over Smash 4 and Smash 5 and just buy Smash 6 in 20 years from now because it will have all the characters from the last five games.

1)Your implying the series only adds characters and ignore everything else in the games.
2)Your forgetting they still add new characters (Brawl added 14 I believe)
3)What is it with yo and X5?

 

[Oasis_S]

Even if he went by a PATTERN, he should be expecting, like, 51 characters?

 

[Diddy Kong]

@Diddy what do you think abou giving Diddy Kong the move from DKCR when he stomps on the ground and shoots the gun? This could replace the bananas

It's an awesome idea, and it gives him a double projectile again. Also a way to add in the double peanut shot, so I'm all for it! I wanna jump cancel rolls with him and DK as well! Or maybe make his B different as well. I vote for a Tail Spin Attack which is chargable. I just love the idea of having Diddy be a very quick but powerful character. ^^

Bananas could be given to Dixie if they must.

 

[Arcadenik]

64 had 2 rows and 6 columns. It would have had 15 characters (Mewtwo, King Dedede, and Bowser)
Melee had 3 rows and 9 columns. It started with just 20 but Sakurai decided to add clones and we ended up with 25 slots.
Brawl had 4 rows and 9 columns. It had 35 slots. With the Forbidden Seven but without Sonic, it would have been 40. If Sakurai didn't add back the characters he cut originally, it would have had 30 slots.
Based on all of these, I would estimate Smash 4-5 rows and 9-10 columns. Maybe 40, 45, or 50.

We got 18 in Brawl because of the Melee cuts and new transformation characters (Zero Suit Samus and Pokemon Trainer) even though the roster size went from 25 to 35 slots.

I want 18-20 new characters. I doubt we are getting 50+ slots.

 

[SmashChu]

64 had 2 rows and 6 columns. It would have had 15 characters (Mewtwo, King Dedede, and Bowser)
Melee had 3 rows and 9 columns. It started with just 20 but Sakurai decided to add clones and we ended up with 25 slots.
Brawl had 4 rows and 9 columns. It had 35 slots. With the Forbidden Seven but without Sonic, it would have been 40. If Sakurai didn't add back the characters he cut originally, it would have had 30 slots.
Based on all of these, I would estimate Smash 4-5 rows and 9-10 columns. Maybe 40, 45, or 50.

We got 18 in Brawl because of the Melee cuts and new transformation characters (Zero Suit Samus and Pokemon Trainer) even though the roster size went from 25 to 35 slots.

I want 18-20 new characters. I doubt we are getting 50+ slots.

I need a facepalm image now.

There is no pattern there. You can't draw something from that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Arc, while I agree with you on things, I don't Sonic alone is the reason we have 7 less characters...

 

[Oasis_S]

I need a facepalm image now.

There is no pattern there. You can't draw something from that.

If you put two and two together, you CAN draw something!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ok new question: your reaction when MANthony Higgs is confirmed for a ZSS - semi clone / or replacement with ice instead of paralysis in his gun??

 

[Deleted member]

Arc, while I agree with you on things, I don't Sonic alone is the reason we have 7 less characters...

Correct. Dixie was scrapped because Sakurai couldn't get the Diddy/Dixie system right. Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik was scrapped early on possibly to avoid mass complaints of A, another clone, and B, the nonexistance of a "Toon Sheik". If pra_mai really is Plusle and Minun, they were likely scrapped in favor of Lucario.

Mewtwo and Roy, at the very least, is because of Sonic.

Dr. Mario, though, is a gray area. On one hand, he could've been scrapped early on for being a clone, on the other, he could've been planned along side Mewtwo and Roy. Having Dr. Mario would've balanced the Mario and Pokemon reps, and Dr. Mario wouldn't need too much data; like Nana, Dr. Mario could borrow most of his data from Mario, while having some data for himself.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If we would've got Mewtwo to, yeah, Doc isn't as bad, even though he's a filler