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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Johnknight1

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There's 0 legit reasons to cut Ganondorf. I don't even care if he's a semi-clone again. He's still the true main Zelda villain, and is more important than any-off villain, or any other in the Zelda franchise
Pretty much the three main characters in the Zelda franchise will ALWAYS be Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

Also Diddy Kong, you gave Ganondorf a 80% chance once. Now you give him a 80% chance. You are giving a character who is maybe the 15th most important character in the franchise, who hasn't even been a trophy in smash and the only reference to her was a sticker in Brawl, a 13% less chance. That is just silly.
 

Diddy Kong

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I was wrong about Ganondorf before with the 80%. Now I say it's 90%. Heck, make it 92% is that makes y'all feel better. Also, Impa is still considered a core character, and along with Link and Zelda, appearantly is the only character who's name has a meaning. Impa means: to impart. Y'all be speaking more English than I do, so tell me what that means...

Also, there's this: http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=171031 .
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Impa is nowhere near on Link, Zelda, or Ganon(and Ganondorf)'s level. She's a secondary character. Sheik is borderline core due to actually being Zelda, but I can even agree she's a secondary overall. Tingle's another secondary, along with the other Sages. Vaati's much closer to a core character since he's a main villain in more than one game, so it's borderline as well. Zant, Ghirahi, and any one-off but key character story-wise is a secondary character.

Most of the games, Impa is barely that important. Unlike the main three.(and I'm not even including Sheik in that) They're not comparable.
 

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How can you estimate stuff like this with percentages given in two significant digits?

Anyway, Skyward Sword is probably gonna be the theme for most of the Zelda characters. In Melee and Brawl, everything was based on games that came out on consoles that are older than Wii (Zelda-stuff from TP and TWW, Mario stuff from Sunshine, Star Fox stuff from Command etc.). The game starts development before other games come out on the same system, so this makes sense.

That doesn't mean Ganon can't be in Smash 4. Remember Sheik from TP?
 

Diddy Kong

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Well, amongst the secondary characters, she clearly stands out above Sheik and the others. She has been around forever, and had a quite great role in SS. The fact she had no trophies is discreditable, cause no other of the 6 Sages from OOT got trophies in Brawl, or Melee either. And Brawl litterally copy pasted ALL ZELDA TROPHIES from Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. And I gotta remind you Brawl was released before Skyward Sword? (DON'T HATE ME I'M JUST REPLYING)

Yeah I remember Sheik from TP. She should be cut now for Impa from Skyward Sword. Your opinion please Jonas? Also, welcome to the thread. Enjoy.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Impa only has one game to show she's much better than Sheik. Sheik stands out over her in OOT. They're even at best.

Likewise, SS probably won't be the latest game anyway. Unlike TP was, so we may once see some references at best. I wouldn't ride too much on one single game. Especially when it might not be the actual latest. You're overcrediting it, Diddy.
 

Diddy Kong

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Remember... Internet cops..! :shades:

I'm not over crediting it. Did you see ANY Mario Galaxy refeneces besides on the Nintendo History list? This is the same situation. Except, Skyward Sword is more recent to Smash 4 than Twilight Princess was to Brawl. At least, if we can expect a 2014 / 2015 release date.

Mario got a new Down B.
Mario's Down B was there since 64.
It has been in 2 games.
Got taken out.

Now discuss Zelda and why she can't have a new Down B, with a new character, from a recent game, cutting a irrelevant character?

Impa and Sheik stand about even in OOT actually. Impa appeared both in adult and young times, is creator of Kakariko Village, is one of the 6 Sages. Actually teaches you a song to, which is all Sheik did in OOT anyway...
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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You use relevancy, which is not an issue nor is it a criteria to Sakurai. Which means that it won't cause a single thing to happen.

Sunshine did not exist during Melee. So it couldn't have been repped. Sakurai wanted to give that game some reference since it deserved it too. So he did that in Brawl. In SSB4, he'll either rep the two Galaxy games, or if other mainstream Mario titles come out, the latest ones. Galaxy was released probably too late before Mario's moves were decided. Likewise, Sunshine is very underrated, so giving it some loves, which could be because Sakurai might like the game for all we know, is not out of the realm of possibility.

We don't know what logic he follows in this. We do know that relevancy is not a factor whatsoever, which you just proved right there. If relevancy was a factor, we'd have no FLUDD. Latest game means nothing, except he might take from it. He might or might not take from Skyward Sword.

I'm saying you shouldn't specifically depend on it for your reasoning, not that it won't be used. You don't know if it will be either, after all.

Getting back to Zelda herself. Unless Sheik gets her own slot, we don't see the Down B gone. In fact, there's little reason to. Sure, giving Sheik a Deku Nut is easy. But Zelda? They had enough trouble giving her a moveset as is.
 

Johnknight1

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No, Impa is not the "most important" secondary character by far. That is probably Vatti, who was the main villain of two/three Zelda games. Impa only appears in... what? 4 games plus a cameo in the Wind Waker! :laugh:
 

Diddy Kong

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No, it was all about the fact Galaxy was in development before Brawl, and released before Brawl, yet nothing about Mario Galaxy was added to Brawl. Even though it was pretty damn straight from the start it was gonna bomb.

Vaati appeared mostly in the Four Swords games. The least liked Zelda games since Zelda 2, which was actually good. I liked him in Minish Cap, but all the other games where pretty skipable. Skyward Sword wasn't.

Sheik also will not be her own character. That just, isn't gonna work. Hence, why a separate Impa could easily take her spot? I could even see it happening even if we do not get Skyward Sword as main inspiration for Zelda characters. That way, we'd still have a separate "Sheik", and a Skyward Sword rep.
 

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I've decided to not to make any predictions on who has or has not made the cut, even the obvious ones, until we get much more information on the games (whenever that'll be but I definitely bet some time after E3 2012)
 

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Okay, but did you get my point? He doesn't actually care about relevancy, which is proof right there.

Likewise, the designs from the latest game is more than likely than any actual content at this point.
 

Diddy Kong

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Okay, but did you get my point? He doesn't actually care about relevancy, which is proof right there.

Likewise, the designs from the latest game is more than likely than any actual content at this point.
In some cases not yeah. Like Diddy's moves. Peanut Popgun definiately isn't from his more recent roles (at that point), yet it's most iconic to him. But I really cannot think of many more examples. Mario does have FLUDD, Luigi, well, he does have a Luigi's Mansion stage. And pretty much all characters have stages from recent games, or music, or looks...

Other than that, Ike got in cause of relevancy. If he really wanted, he would've probably used Hector or Lyn from Fire Emblem 7, which sold better overall than Path of Ridiance. Inteligent Systems chose him however.

Lucario is pretty much the same reasons. But we did have the Trainer to back up older games.

I say it's pretty much 50 / 50. But for a game series as big as Zelda I think relevancy should really take more priority.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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In some cases not yeah. Like Diddy's moves. Peanut Popgun definiately isn't from his more recent roles (at that point), yet it's most iconic to him. But I really cannot think of many more examples. Mario does have FLUDD, Luigi, well, he does have a Luigi's Mansion stage. And pretty much all characters have stages from recent games, or music, or looks...
Ignore stages. Those are not characters. The rest, which is characters themselves, had nothing to do with relevancy.

Other than that, Ike got in cause of relevancy. If he really wanted, he would've probably used Hector or Lyn from Fire Emblem 7, which sold better overall than Path of Ridiance. Inteligent Systems chose him however.
And Sakurai didn't. If Sakurai didn't choose him, then it doesn't count.

Lucario is pretty much the same reasons. But we did have the Trainer to back up older games.
And 1st Gen isn't relevant whatsoever. Lucario got in because he was supremely popular, well over Plusle & Minun or any 3rd Gen. A movie, an anime appearance, and the only Fighting/Steel that was awesome in battle. Relevance, at best, only had him over Plusle & Minun, and had nothing to do with him being chosen in the first place.

I say it's pretty much 50 / 50. But for a game series as big as Zelda I think relevancy should really take more priority.
It never has, and it never will. Sakurai does not use it. It's fine if you use it, just don't expect it to matter in actual character choice where it counts.
 
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You can't use Ike or Lucario because they had 2nd Parties to back them up.
Zelda's a 1st Party series. Therefore, no one will be PUSHING for a more relevant character.
 

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MORE Impa talk? Why am I not surprised?



When I check back later hopefully I'll have another stage concept for a small change of pace.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Why Sheik got in Melee the first place you think..?

:phone:
Because Sakurai found her awesome and easy to make fighting moves for. Likewise, it's very possible he couldn't think of anything for Zelda to fight with, so that was our rep of Zelda herself. But then he decided to throw other moves in, including Link's spells, and make her a partial spellcaster. And thus, Zelda was born. Let's note that Sheik was revealed first before Zelda, so all we know is that Sheik was mostly likely made first.

Thus, it would make little sense to take away the second actual Zelda series rep from Smash. That's like removing Jigglypuff or Luigi. You just don't do it.
 

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Just to change the discussion here, what do you guys think of the concept of Tag Team Mode?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Just to change the discussion here, what do you guys think of the concept of Tag Team Mode?
Could be interesting. Although I'm not sure how well it works Smash-wise myself. Mostly because unless we're talking about a player controlling two full characters at once..., then it'd make a nice bonus.
 

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I don't think so, she was just revealed earlier. Where Ice Climbers then made before old classics not revealed in that trailer? It's just not true :/

A tag team idea is cool. We're discussing a new idea for a tag team character now however.

:phone:
 
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It's not new as much as it never leaves this ****ing place due to this guy. ^
 

Diddy Kong

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You and HyperFalcon started quote replying. I ain't dun nothin.

:phone:
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I don't think so, she was just revealed earlier. Where Ice Climbers then made before old classics not revealed in that trailer? It's just not true :/
:phone:
Then explain why she was revealed earlier? Why would you reveal a character that was done second? Signs only point to her being first, and nothing shows Zelda was made first whatsoever.

You and HyperFalcon started quote replying. I ain't dun nothin.
You brought up Impa, not the other wway around. Try again.
 

yani

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So Sheik being revealed first in Melee means nothing but being the last revealed veteran in Brawl does? You make no sense

:phone:
 
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What do you expect, yani? He's making biased and hypocritical points.
 

KrIsP!

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Could be interesting. Although I'm not sure how well it works Smash-wise myself. Mostly because unless we're talking about a player controlling two full characters at once..., then it'd make a nice bonus.
Oh this is a conversation that doesn't involve relevance=charater BS, I'm gunna jump in.

This sounds like a cool idea but the balancing...OH the balancing that would need to be done. I'd imagine it could work by picking a second character to switch with similar to Zelda/Shiek, but the input is mapped to a taunt. It could be really cool mixing up playstyles for defensive/offensive or kill moves vs. edge guarding.

I suppose there could be a final smash type item that allows the two characters to react with eachother or a combo meter of sorts. Imagine Sheik using her FSmash and on the second hit the ICs jump in the fray from ahead of where the opponent is flying and smash them with there hammer while freezing them, all the while the player being in control of sheik allowing her to set up for a UAir.

...For the first time since the E3 announcement I'm excited for Sm4sh. The controller issues still bug me though.
 
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There is a tag-team mode in TMNT: Smash-Up. I'd think it could work like that, except with the mapping of where the "Switch" button would go.
 

Diddy Kong

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Because of shock vallue, its a character you wouldn't except, but would be cool (at that point). Like how Zero Suit Samus got revealed for Brawl. A long with big wants from the public as Wario and Meta Knight. As before, Peach and Bowser got revealed. Pit and Ice Climbers where there for showing of a refined retro character. I kinda see the logic in it actually...

:phone:
 

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Oh this is a conversation that doesn't involve relevance=charater BS, I'm gunna jump in.

This sounds like a cool idea but the balancing...OH the balancing that would need to be done. I'd imagine it could work by picking a second character to switch with similar to Zelda/Shiek, but the input is mapped to a taunt. It could be really cool mixing up playstyles for defensive/offensive or kill moves vs. edge guarding.

I suppose there could be a final smash type item that allows the two characters to react with eachother or a combo meter of sorts. Imagine Sheik using her FSmash and on the second hit the ICs jump in the fray from ahead of where the opponent is flying and smash them with there hammer while freezing them, all the while the player being in control of sheik allowing her to set up for a UAir.

...For the first time since the E3 announcement I'm excited for Sm4sh. The controller issues still bug me though.
Its kinda hard for me to get exited about Sm4sh honestly, hopefully E3 2012 will make my hype skyrocket.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Oh this is a conversation that doesn't involve relevance=charater BS, I'm gunna jump in.

This sounds like a cool idea but the balancing...OH the balancing that would need to be done. I'd imagine it could work by picking a second character to switch with similar to Zelda/Shiek, but the input is mapped to a taunt. It could be really cool mixing up playstyles for defensive/offensive or kill moves vs. edge guarding.
That's my thought exactly. Albeit, if your first characters gets KO'd, you'd auto-switch to your next one. Although I'd have it at 1 stock each. Similar to All-Star Mode.

I suppose there could be a final smash type item that allows the two characters to react with eachother or a combo meter of sorts. Imagine Sheik using her FSmash and on the second hit the ICs jump in the fray from ahead of where the opponent is flying and smash them with there hammer while freezing them, all the while the player being in control of sheik allowing her to set up for a UAir.
Throw out the combo meter. Ew. Don't need it. However, I could see a combined Final Smash with the characters.

...For the first time since the E3 announcement I'm excited for Sm4sh. The controller issues still bug me though.
We just need a remake of the GC Controller, WIRED version.
 

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And people were expecting Sheik to be cut in Brawl. I'd say that's even more "shock value" that she made a comeback with a TP design

:phone:
 
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I made a poll in the Project Crusade forums. No one currently supports the idea of Impa.

'Jus saiyan.
 
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