New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Conviction]

Who are the nerds in the back though? Those people watching?

Dat DK though... <3 definitely won't be giving up on mah Melee main

And yes, variation would be nice indeed

XD Don't give in on your hopes.

The Melee matches by far. I enjoyed the fast pace. It'd matches like these that make me wonder if this or that is really needed.

Yeah limited options while keeping the movement going to mask your actual approach is pretty dope.

Sometimes its single sometimes its double elimination. Really depends on how many matches they're trying to churn though.

Another factor could be if they decide to go through with loser's bracket.

It's double elim.

I don't know anything about how the matches work, I thought Ripple is already out? Or is it not that kind of tourney?

I can only hope Smash4 gives a lot more viable options in terms of characters.

I really want Bowser to become more usable, and Jiggs to get her sing together. Kind of is silly that what Jiggs is known for isn't even a usable move.

ANNNND, I think he lost twice, yes. Once to this guy, and then that guy lost to another guy, and then he played that guy as his Dk and then his Roy, and lost both times.

Damn, so he did get dropped out of brackets, unless it was pools. I'm not sure though. I'll figure out later.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can't watch now. Gotta sleep some time...

 

[Conviction]

Aight peace Diddy

 

[Shorts]

It was pools! I know it was that. Brackets are tomorrow or Sunday.

 

[Conviction]

Hmmm if he place 1st or 2nd seed he proceeds to brackets, but hearing that he lost twice probably sealed his drowning. Were they solid 2-0 losses or were they 2-1's?

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah limited options while keeping the movement going to mask your actual approach is pretty dope.

Still, it's kind of boring to see spacing with just air normals.

 

[Shorts]

Hmmm if he place 1st or 2nd seed he proceeds to brackets, but hearing that he lost twice probably sealed his drowning. Were they solid 2-0 losses or were they 2-1's?

That I don't remember. I THINK it was 2-0 just because I don't recall the Roy/DK ever winning a match. He got close with DK, but I don't think he won. At least out of what I saw. I could definitely be wrong though.

 

[Conviction]

Still, it's kind of boring to see spacing with just air normals.

Sad to hear that, wouldn't you call that footises in SF though?

That I don't remember. I THINK it was 2-0 just because I don't recall the Roy/DK ever winning a match. He got close with DK, but I don't think he won. At least out of what I saw. I could definitely be wrong though.

Depressing, I'll have to figure out then

 

[Johnknight1]

Hey is APEX currently live streaming matches guys=???

Also shortster, you at APEX=???

Cool story broskis

Here's another awesome commercial


"IT'S NOT A PARTY UNTIL SOMETHING GETS BROKEN!"

*wham*

If only that game was actually fun!

I'd like to disagree. Zoroark is definatly NOT more popular than Lucario in both communities.

I was talking about this point in the pre-Brawl smash bros community, in comparison to other potential 1st/2nd newcomer characters that Lucario was competing with. Diddy Kong and King Dedede, for instance, were all much more popular and common discussions than Lucario. Some of the Pokémon fanbase also was vying for the likes of Deoxys, Jjirachi, Scizor (he would rock), and so forth.

Lucario was always the most popular "new" Pokémon choice for Brawl by a large margin. However, about a year or so after the first Brawl trailer, though, Lucario's had simply destroyed the others in terms of fanbase, amount of support, level of support, and recognition. Every other "new" Pokémon got blown away in the dust.

Does that make sense asage=???

I think he'll ask IS about Fire Emblem and the Zelda team as well which characters to add. I doubt the Zelda team will have a spare Skyward Sword Sheik design again however...

Honestly, I think the Zelda series won't have a change at all.

Ganondorf will have to represent OoT in his own.

Meah, I think he will be mostly based off his Twilight Princess appearance, with a lot of Melee/Ocarina of Time and maybe a sprinkle of the Wind Waker mixed in.

Also, how the **** can Pichu be considered replaced by Lucario..? This dude be talking that I don't make sence, but this goes even further than some of the stuff HyperFalcon says.

Who the heck said that=??? That's crazy!!!... although I kind of like it!!!

 

[Conviction]

I think the stream is done for now John

 

[Big-Cat]

Sad to hear that, wouldn't you call that footises in SF though?

Yeah, but at least there's a ground game going on to give you more attacks.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah, but at least there's a ground game going on to give you more attacks.

I'm not following? I mean brawl there are some viable characters with good ground games like snake and olimar

 

[Johnknight1]

I figured as much. Been too busy stealing crap from people in Skyrim!

Besides, I usually watch pools after the tournament. I usually start paying some attention for nationals when there are about 16 to 48 players left, and I really pay attention in when it is 8 to 16 players left. Although for APEX, the NFL Playoffs and other plans will be a distraction...

...multitasking for the win=???

All I know is my biggest inspiration, Azen, possibly by Armada and M2K other than what you guys have mentioned.

 

[Conviction]

Azen got ejected by m2k and aramada in teams

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not following? I mean brawl there are some viable characters with good ground games like snake and olimar

I would like to see more people going for hit confirms with their ground normals. Trying to zone with projectiles with names not being Falco or Peach. I just don't like how the aerial game overall is either much better or is given a higher emphasis. Out of curiosity, what is the percentage of the top 10 that are best in the air.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ xIblisx
Yeah that's what I thought. Are the teams matches over yet=???

I have a hard time watching teams on the live stream. The slight lag bugs me with 4 players sometimes. Although since it is nationals, it is probably a high quality camera.

I usually can't stomach watching too much Brawl after being exposed to Melee like this, really just way too slow for me.

Yeah, Brawl is really only easy to stomach when you watch it live or you watch like DSF play. Seriously, I faced him for about 3 hours, and it was amazing. Absolutely amazing. He is just so good, so controlling, and so understanding of the game, his game, and even your game (the first time he faces you), that it is SCARY!

 

[Conviction]

I would like to see more people going for hit confirms with their ground normals. Trying to zone with projectiles with names not being Falco or Peach. I just don't like how the aerial game overall is either much better or is given a higher emphasis. Out of curiosity, what is the percentage of the top 10 that are best in the air.

For which game? Brawl or Melee?

@ xIblisx
Yeah that's what I thought. Are the teams matches over yet=???

I have a hard time watching teams on the live stream. The slight lag bugs me with 4 players sometimes.

Yeah, Brawl is really only easy to stomach when you watch it live or you watch like DSF play. Seriously, I faced him for about 3 hours, and it was amazing. Absolutely amazing. He is just so good, so controlling, and so understanding of the game, his game, and even your game (the first time he faces you), that it is SCARY!

Nah top 8 will play on sunday for teams and singles

 

[Johnknight1]

@ xIblisx
Kuma is talking about Brawl.

Speaking of Brawl, is this the last URC tournament Meta Knight is legal in, or the first URC tournament in which Meta Knight is banned=???

Also, what is tomorrow, just more Melee singles and doubles pools and the Brawl single/doubles finals=???

 

[Conviction]

Last he is legal in.

@Kuma: IMO it's these ten (Not in order besides MK being the number one), Metaknight, ZSS, Marth, Kirby, Peach, Toon Link, Ike, Falco, (wow top ten is harder than I thought) Wario, Lucario.

Ehh Ranked I guess, MK, Wario, Marth, ZSS, and then it's a throw up I guess Kirby.

 

[Johnknight1]

I wouldn't really say ZSS is much of an air character. She plays better on the ground, which is why she is dominate on the air because of her land traps and ability to own you. So... in a way... I somehow agree with you xIblisx, even though I was saying otherwise!

Also, I gotta say the top ten purely in the air (with no land help) are Meta Knight, Marth, Diddy Kong, Toon Link, Wario, ZSS, Falco, Snake, King Dedede, Lucario.

You are right xIblisx, Top Tens are hard! I changed my list like a dozen times!

If only Ness and Lucas didn't have such terrible hit box problems they would arguably earn a spot up there, too.

 

[Hoots]

Last he is legal in.

@Kuma: IMO it's these ten (Not in order besides MK being the number one), Metaknight, ZSS, Marth, Kirby, Peach, Toon Link, Ike, Falco, (wow top ten is harder than I thought) Wario, Lucario.

Ehh Ranked I guess, MK, Wario, Marth, ZSS, and then it's a throw up I guess Kirby.

Wario is a monster in the air. Got 3rd in a tournament using him back when I was pretty decent at Brawl. I guess that was back when no one had any idea how good Wario was. I miss those days... Hopefully the early Smash 4 days will be just as exciting, eh?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm talking about compared to other potential newcomer characters in smash. You aren't even understanding what I am saying.

Here's the thing. That wasn't what the debate was about. It was specifically about Zoroark and Victini being in the Top 10 wanted characters. Which they aren't.
I know you're going to say "well you haven't proven otherwise", but likewise, you haven't proven it true.

Pre-Brawl in the Pokémon series, Lucario was the most popular Pokémon.
Pre-Brawl in smash bros, Diddy Kong and King Dedede were more popular potential newcomer choices. I didn't say anything about other Pokémon; stop pretending I did. There was never any argument; Lucario was definitely the most popular Pokémon with future Brawl players then, by far.

I never said Lucario was the most popular Newcomer choice. I said he was pretty damn popular. Which translates to "he was very popular".

Again, popularity is one of about half a dozen factors in choosing a character. I said that later on in my post if you bothered reading it. Stop reading one sentence of mine and translating me saying as that is the only thing that matters.

I should say the same to you. You have completely mistranslated ME.
You stated, that Smash popularity is all that matters in terms of popularity (this issue is SPECIFICALLY about popularity, not the other key factors), when it's also outside popuarity that works for characters. You pretty much stated that Smash fans are the only voices in the matter.
If you had bothered to read what I said completely instead of skimming through words, you would've understood.
I bolded "The only popularity that matters" for a reason.

No, but that helps whatever the heck a Groose is chances. Again, Jigglypuff was justified by a half dozen reasons I mentioned (which are based on something Sakurai said about how a character gets in smash in response to the Japanese Brawl poll/character post he had), and you focus on one like it was the only one I said.

This is Groose:

He is a major NPC in Skyward Sword.

And point to me where you mentioned anything of "criteria". This is the first you've mentioned this in this conversation.
You might have talked all about it to someone else, but you have not said a lick of it to me.
And I've triple-checked all of your posts that were in this exact conversation.

Mega Man is a different story because he is 3rd party. But yes, Victini and Zoroark probably aren't as popular as K. Rool and Ridley; maybe Dixie Kong, too. I would not, however, say they are as hugely overshadowed as Lucario was from King Dedede and Diddy Kong, because their fans were angry about being excluded from Melee. While many (myself included) were angry about Ridley being excluded from Brawl, Ridley simply isn't as popular as King Dedede or Diddy Kong.

You made a boisterous claim, though, about how Lucario's popularity wasn't as "great" as Victini's is now. You still haven't backed it up.

Most anti-Zoroark and anti-Victini are opposed to them because they realize that most likely (unless the 6th Generation interferes) battle for a roster spot. It's kinda like how in sports two teams in the same division hate each other in the last game of the season when they are fighting for one playoff spot. They don't hate the other because they are "evil" or anything. Rather, they hate them because they are in their way.

But you're not getting me.
Most of why Vicitni has support AT ALL is because many people don't want/like Zoroark.
Since Zoroark's reveal, people have been unanimously agreeing that Zoroark would be the next Smash character. Many supported her, many opposed her.
Then Victini comes around. Everyone that was against Zoroark flocked to Vicitni for the basis that "it isn't Zoroark".

Jigglypuff back then was somewhere around the 2nd most well-known/popular character worldwide. Plus, again, it wasn't just all about being popular, as I said. Stop focusing on one thing I said instead of the bulk of what I said.

Meowth was more well known due to his role in the anime. And Charizard if I remember correctly was more popular in America than Jigglypuff.
Plus, you mistranslated what I said. Stop focusing on the few things I said instead of the bulk of what I said.

Oh my God, read my post. Stop twisting my words. If you twist my words like this the next time, I just will ignore you. Lucario was included because he fits all the criteria Sakurai listed with flying colors. Being the most popular "new" Pokémon with Nintendo fans and potential Brawl buyers/players only helps that.

Oh my God, read MY post. Stop twisting MY words. If you twist my words like this the next time, I will just ignore you.
And again, you said nothing of criteria.

Spoiler

What, now you're going to troll because you misinterpreted what I said as a misinterpretation of what you said?

 

[Conviction]

Wario is a monster in the air. Got 3rd in a tournament using him back when I was pretty decent at Brawl. I guess that was back when no one had any idea how good Wario was. I miss those days... Hopefully the early Smash 4 days will be just as exciting, eh?

Hopefully.

 

[Deleted member]

And to Diddy Kong, who I know will read this.

It's simple really.
Pichu was never planned for Brawl from the beginning. A new Pokemon was to take his place. New Pokemon was decided to be Lucario. Lucario took Pichu's spot.

Both Pichu and Lucario:
1. Represented the latest Generations at the time of inclusion.
2. Both had a unique gimmick regarding their damage. (Pichu damaged itself with Electric attacks, Lucario grew stronger the more damage it had)
3. Were considered Mascots for the Generations they came from.

All Mewtwo and Lucario have in common is a ball they charge.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ xIblisx
God I used to be a breeding farm for Wario players on wifi back when Brawl's competitive scene was young. At one point I faced 3 different Wario's who would be on multiple Top 10 Wario's lists-at the same time!

Fortunately for me, that made my aerial game pretty decent, and especially made my offensive aerial play style and awareness pretty solid.

You made a boisterous claim, though, about how Lucario's popularity wasn't as "great" as Victini's is now. You still haven't backed it up.

I'm comparing Lucario's situation as a popularity as a potential playable character in smash at this point in Brawl in relevance to other Nintendo-owned characters (in which case King Dedede and Diddy Kong was about half of the 1st/2nd party character discussion) compared to Victini/Zoroark and other potential Nintendo-owned characters' popularity now. While it may not fully accurately paint the picture this way or that way, it does paint an interesting picture.

But you're not getting me.
Most of why Vicitni has support AT ALL is because many people don't want/like Zoroark.
Since Zoroark's reveal, people have been unanimously agreeing that Zoroark would be the next Smash character. Many supported her, many opposed her.

Yes, that is a factor, but a lot of people also really like Victini. Personally, I rather like both of them.

The problem is you are assuming what I am saying is all of this, and I am assuming you are assuming everything is all of that. We are running in circles arguing different points.

And again, you said nothing of criteria.

Yes I did...

Again, popularity is one of about half a dozen factors in choosing a character. I said that later on in my post if you bothered reading it. Stop reading one sentence of mine and translating me saying as that is the only thing that matters.

 

[Deleted member]

And point to me where you mentioned anything of "criteria". This is the first you've mentioned this in this conversation.
You might have talked all about it to someone else, but you have not said a lick of it to me.
And I've triple-checked all of your posts that were in this exact conversation.

Seems you missed this. And you accuse me of not reading.

Quoting yourself from earlier in that post doesn't help you.
The quote in question implies you've mentioned the "criteria" to me before in the previous post I quoted. I checked; there was none there to be found.

 

[Hoots]

And to Diddy Kong, who I know will read this.

It's simple really.
Pichu was never planned for Brawl from the beginning. A new Pokemon was to take his place. New Pokemon was decided to be Lucario. Lucario took Pichu's spot.

Both Pichu and Lucario:
1. Represented the latest Generations at the time of inclusion.
2. Both had a unique gimmick regarding their damage. (Pichu damaged itself with Electric attacks, Lucario grew stronger the more damage it had)
3. Were considered Mascots for the Generations they came from.

All Mewtwo and Lucario have in common is a ball they charge.

While there are some more similarities than shadow ball/aura sphere, they are pretty different from each other. This video has a comparison of all of their moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJTC0JaWOfE

While he is totally biased towards them not being 'clones' and kind of ignores some similarities, it is a good resource to take a look at. I personally think that Mewtwo and Lucario will be back along with a newcomer.

Also, yes Pichu was only tacked on after the fact simply because he was a ridiculously easy clone of Pikachu. Nothing else should be read into his inclusion.

ALSO, I know I'm going to get a lot of RAAAAAGE for this, but Victini is only heavily supported on THIS forum and THAT is only because a few Victini fanboys came in and started beating the drum and basically shoved the ******* down everyone's throat. He wasn't even considered remotely likely around here until SSBF became a colossal Victini fan.

 

[Deleted member]

While there are some more similarities than shadow ball/aura sphere, they are pretty different from each other. This video has a comparison of all of their moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJTC0JaWOfE

While he is totally biased towards them not being 'clones' and kind of ignores some similarities, it is a good resource to take a look at. I personally think that Mewtwo and Lucario will be back along with a newcomer.

Also, yes Pichu was only tacked on after the fact simply because he was a ridiculously easy clone of Pikachu. Nothing else should be read into his inclusion.
ALSO, I know I'm going to get a lot of RAAAAAGE for this, but Victini is only heavily supported on THIS forum and THAT is only because a few Victini fanboys came in and started beating the drum and basically shoved the ******* down everyone's throat. He wasn't even considered remotely likely around here until SSBF became a colossal Victini fan.

Funny enough, I was the guy that requested that comparison. (Under my ex-friend's account because he was letting me borrow it while he wasn't using it.)

I kind of figured that was the case. Zoroark to me seems the most likely of all 5th Gens.

 

[Deleted member]

@Hoots: There's also a lot of Victini supporters at GameFAQs, which by now likely outnumbers the Zoroark supporters on there. I am also starting to notice more and more rosters on YouTube contain Victini; a development I'm pleased to see.

 

[Johnknight1]

Seems you missed this. And you accuse me of not reading.

Quoting yourself from earlier in that post doesn't help you.
The quote in question implies you've mentioned the "criteria" to me before in the previous post I quoted. I checked; there was none there to be found.

Yes. I see. Well, I posted a quote of Sakurai's criteria, and it seems that somewhere I deleted it. I remember reading it on my post, but I must have accidentally edited it out. That is where the confusion is from in our quotes is from...

I had to delete the most important and center part of my post...

 

[BirthNote]

@Hoots: There's also a lot of Victini supporters at GameFAQs, which by now likely outnumbers the Zoroark supporters on there. I am also starting to notice more and more rosters on YouTube contain Victini; a development I'm pleased to see.

...Will stuff like this really affect Sakurai's choices? I'm not being rude I'd just like to know.

 

[---]

^^Probably not, I think it's been brought up before that the Pokemon Company has full control over it's characters, not Sakurai.

Yes. I see. Well, I posted a quote of Sakurai's criteria, and it seems that somewhere I deleted it. I remember reading it on my post, but I must have accidentally edited it out. That is where the confusion is from in our quotes is from...

I had to delete the most important and center part of my post...

Might I recommend taking a look at the info thread?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yes. I see. Well, I posted a quote of Sakurai's criteria, and it seems that somewhere I deleted it. I remember reading it on my post, but I must have accidentally edited it out. That is where the confusion is from in our quotes is from...

I had to delete the most important and center part of my post...

BIG-LIPPED ALLIGATOR MOMENT!

 

[Shorts]

I can’t sleep, so I decided I would take this time to write a little something up. The topic for tonight’s rant is: “Finishing” the franchises. What do I mean by that? I mean, adding all the final “Key characters” into the pre-existing franchises that have been established in SSBB. I guess I should just begin:

Super Mario
• Mario
• Luigi
• Peach
• Bowser
• Toad (Debatable)
• Junior (Debatable)
I really don’t think Toad or Junior are QUITE on the level that the other four are, TBH. But, I added them because I think it could be argued that they are/will be. Doc doesn’t actually make this list, even if he is a legitimate choice, I don’t think he is a key character to the Mario franchise. Same goes for Paper Mario, and Geno, and that loser Waluigi.

Yoshi Story
• Yoshi
• Kamek

WarioWare/Land
• Wario
• Captain Syrup
• Mona/Jimmy T.
Mona has my vote, but I think either is fine. Characters like Ashley remind me of…. Jiggs. They’re randomly popular, but not all that “Important”. Plus Ware probably only needs a single character. But whatever, I thought she was worth mentioning.

Donkey Kong Country
• Donkey Kong
• Diddy Kong
• King K. Rool
• Dixie Kong
For Donkey Kong, I would like to make a note of Cranky Kong. While he isn’t playable character Material, I do think he would be considered a “Main” character, despite being less important that the three I’ve listed above. Funky is a loser.

Legend Of Zelda
• Link
• Zelda / Sheik
• Ganondorf
• Child Link
• Tingle
The reason Sheik is on this list is because she simply IS Zelda, and when it comes to Smash she is just as important as Jiggly and Ness. They’re weird veterans who have big fan bases, even if they aren’t too important to their series’. Ghirahim and the other one shots, not important.

Pokemon
• Pikachu
• Jigglypuff
• Pokemon Trainer (Char/Ivy/Squirt)
• Lucario
• Mewtwo
• Fifth Generation rep / Sixth Gen Rep
• 2nd/3rd Generation rep (Debatable)

While I think it’s a travesty that the third Generation never got it’s rep, it probably isn’t going to happen. It could be argued you need all Gens to rep Pokemon correctly, and it can also be argued you only need the first Gen to have all the key characters. Pick a side, or don’t. I don’t care.

Kirby Series
• Kirby
• King Dedede
• Meta Knight
• Bandana Dee (Debatable)
I honestly DON’T KNOW how prominent he is, but I think he’s worth a mention… I think. He might fall under the same Junior/Toad argument.

Metroid
• Samus / ZSS
• Ridley
I actually think ZSS is an important character, but whatever. Shoutout to Dark Samus. If I was going to add “Kinda Important” characters to the list, she/he would be up there.

StarFox
• Fox
• Falco
• Wolf
• Krystal
That’s it. No Leon, no Slippy. These four. Although I think I SHOULD mention Andross. An important, obviously, NPC.

Mother
• Ness
• Lucas
• Porky
• Claus / MM
I would like to start off by saying I think Ninten might make this list, but I think four is enough for Mother. Giygas probably should be mentioned as well. He falls under the Andross category.

Fire Emblem
• Marth
• Ike
• Roy
• Chrome/Future FE Lord
Chrome may not mean a thing, but someday, there might just be another FE lord that is as important as these three. I’m sure there are more I should mention, but I think they fall under the same category as Mother. I can’t mention every freaking importan FE character.

F-Zero
• Captain Falcon
• Samurai Goroh
• Black Shadow
The way I’ve had it explained to me is sorta like this? CF is Fox, Goroh is Wolf, and BS is Andross? Shoutout to Jody Summers. Toise can make that argument for her, I certainly can’t.

Kid Icarus
• Pit
• Medusa
• Palutena
Regaurdless of how well KI:U sells, these characters are neccisary if you want to complete this franchise.

^^Probably not, I think it's been brought up before that the Pokemon Company has full control over it's characters, not Sakurai.

I wouldn't say that, but we know they can step in when they feel they need to. (Which may be often)

 

[---]

I wouldn't say that, but we know they can step in when they feel they need to. (Which may be often)

Sorry, I don't completely remember, it was brought up at some point though.

Great list. I completely agree with it so far.

 

[Johnknight1]

Might I recommend taking a look at the info thread?

Urgh, I can't believe I debated it. No wonder Golden wasn't making sense and why I sounded like popularity was everything, which was the opposite point I made in the part I deleted.

 

[Deleted member]

...Will stuff like this really affect Sakurai's choices? I'm not being rude I'd just like to know.

I did not state that Victini's popularity on GameFAQs and Smashboards would affect the Pokemon Company's decision. I only posted that to show Hoots that serious Victini support does exist on other places, including GameFAQs.

As for Shortie's list of to properly complete franchises, I quite like it. The only thing I would do is give Pokemon eight slots (for all vets and a 3rd and a 5th gen newcomer to come in) and drop Bandanna Dee if we're aiming for completion.

 

[Hoots]

I can’t sleep, so I decided I would take this time to write a little something up. The topic for tonight’s rant is: “Finishing” the franchises. What do I mean by that? I mean, adding all the final “Key characters” into the pre-existing franchises that have been established in SSBB. I guess I should just begin:

I would put Paper Mario on the same tier as Toad and Junior. As much as I prefer PM to the other two, I think all three of them really aren't necessary to complete the Mario franchise. I would totally axe Mona, Waddle Dee, Captain Syrup, and Kamek. All of those characters are only considered to the end of bolstering a franchise's representation and not from support of the characters themselves. All 3 of those franchises are complete as far as I see it. Everything else seems fine, except for Mother. I guess I could see Claus being considered, but not Porky.

Also, @SSBF: I skimmed through the Victini movie(the one with Zekrom and that other guy). After stomaching the terrible voice acting, I noticed that Victini never actually fights. He simply floats around being cute and supportive, then gets his *** kicked and cries, then blows himself up to save the day, exactly something you would expect from a Mew-like Pokemon. Let's contrast that to the Zoroark movie where she is fighting essentially the entire time. Maybe there is something I missed, but simply can't grasp why people think that Victini is more likely/deserving than Zoroark.

 

[Shorts]

I would put Paper Mario on the same tier as Toad and Junior. As much as I prefer PM to the other two, I think all three of them really aren't necessary to complete the Mario franchise. I would totally axe Mona, Waddle Dee, Captain Syrup, and Kamek. All of those characters are only considered to the end of bolstering a franchise's representation and not from support of the characters themselves. All 3 of those franchises are complete as far as I see it. Everything else seems fine, except for Mother. I guess I could see Claus being considered, but not Porky.

I'm definitely willing to vouch for Syrup and Mona. Within Land and Ware series, Syrup and Mona are prominent figures who may not be uber popular, but within the series they're both from, they're important. Kamek is iffy, I agree. You could argue it should be Baby Bowser up there, but I don't want to put him up their. Porky could also be considered NPC material simply because of his size. Dee is FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD a reaccuring character, who is probably in the same boat as Junior/Toad ect.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Shortster (if you don't like that nickname well tough)

Spoiler

no really, I'll stop calling you that if you want me to stop! XD

This posts sounds like a Smash 6 roster! (I'm assuming we consider Smash Wii U and 3DS Smash 4 and 5).

Spoiler

Mario: Ehh... I think Toad would complete the "classic Mario character" set, but Bowser Jr. would complete the "relevant Mario character" set. Geno and Paper Mario would definitely "finish" the "unique Mario character" set. Really,unless we got all of those choices (the current four plus Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and maybe) the Mario roster wouldn't feel totally extracted from.

Yoshi: Agreed 100%.

Wario: Captain Syrup and a Wario Ware character would definitely "finish off" the Wario Land/Ware franchises.

Donkey Kong: Maybe throw Jr. some love. If Cranky Kong was a "WTF?" character in a way in the future smash bros game (assuming DK, Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool were playable), that would be totally awesome. But overall, I 100% agree.

The Legend of Zelda: Maybe another villain would fill the small void left. Vatti would fill that void, but he hasn't appeared in a Zelda game in several years (the same goes for Tingle). Playable Ganon...???... maybe=???

Pokémon: Co-signed. A 2nd/3rd Generation Pokémon would be excellent. My vote is Plusle and Minun.

Kirby: Ehh... I don't really disagree, but I'm not too big on Bandanna Dee.

Metroid: Hmm... well... I guess. I dunno, I just wish there was a good third choice for Metroid. Not that I wouldn't be happy with Zamus, Samus, and Ridley, but a third choice to say "hey, he may be in the next smash bros game be!" would rock. Dark Samus fit that role after Ridley, but Dark Samus isn't very original.

Star Fox: Give Krystal a more unique personality (and a classic Star Fox game that isn't the original or a remake of the original, or the original's remake's remake), and I'm there.

Mother: Meah, I think the series is 100% good. And I think if there was a third character, definitely Claus/The Masked Man, Porky, and Ninten (although all he really just is a prelude to Ness) should be it.

Fire Emblem: Yeppers.

F-Zero: Captain Falcon is the protagonist, Samurai Goroh the rival/anti-protagonist, and Black Shadow the antagonist. That fits perfectly, although 2 is good for me.

Overall, interesting list...