New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Big-Cat]

Arcadenic: You think Smash will sell with those characters advertised? Not very well.

Lol sales. You've already got Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, and the like in the game. Everyone else is icing on the cake.

 

[yani_]

Because clearly, one sequel stage is an obsession.

Anyways, I don't expect a "Stadium 3". I expect a "Colosseum".

Same difference.

If there were two 1st gen additions, they would be Mewtwo and Meowth. They're really the only good choices left for that gen.

MEOWTH THAT'S RIGHT

 

[Deleted member]

@Yani: No, that's not the same at all. Two games do not make a pattern.

 

[Deleted member]

If there were two 1st gen additions, they would be Mewtwo and Meowth. They're really the only good choices left for that gen.

Eevee. Only non-Legendary to be in Japan's Top 10 in the poll (Pre-Unova) other than Pikachu. Rival's starter Pokemon in Yellow. Is the starter Pokemon in XD: Gale of Darkness. Is the player character's main Pokemon in the upcoming Pokemon X Nobunaga's Ambition.

Mew. One of the Top 10 requested characters for "Smash 2" on SSB64's Japanese website. Uses a variety of typed Attacks. Currently in Japan's Top 10 in a higher place than even Mewtwo. Featured in two movies. The original Event Pokemon.

While people would argue that Meowth is a better choice, he isn't the only good choice left.
EDIT: But even then, Mew and Eevee aren't Meowth's competition. Mewtwo, Lucario, and a 5th Gen rep are, because we don't know how that's going to work out.

 

[yani_]

I didn't say anything about a pattern, he assumed I did and said he's expecting a Colosseum instead of a Stadium 3. Which is the same thing without the number.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Side B - Hold B to make him charge up and spin. When the button is released he rolls forward. You can jump at any time and cancel out into an aerial attack.

Down B - Keep pressing B to build up charge. When the button is released he dashes forward. You can move him left and right across the ground.

I meant give him the ability to jump out of a Spindash. Atleast you can mix things up if you have the option to jump out of it. Just rolling back and forth on the ground is asking for them to shield then punish.

Ditch the down special, as it's highly identical to the side special. Maybe the down special should operate like the Bounce Bracelet from Sonic Adventure 2. Simply put, Sonic curls up into a ball, and dives down to the ground at full force.

 

[yani_]

A bounce bracelet would be pretty cool. Wouldn't it be extremely spammable though?

 

[Arcadenik]

Are people really that demoralized about Meowth's chances that they aren't actively supporting him? It seems to me that his fanbase collapsed after he was confirmed to be a Pokeball Pokemon. Why does Meowth have to be relevant in today's games in order to get in Smash? If anything, he is still one of the two main Pokemon in the anime since the beginning. He's one of the more famous Pokemon... not many Pokemon can achieve that level of fame. Even Sakurai acknowledged that in the Brawl Dojo and Meowth's Brawl trophy.

And here's the thing...1st gen is still popular.. it sells. The older gamers are the ones with buying power, we have the money. The younger gamers, they may be into the 4th or 5th gen games but they usually don't have their own money and may need to rely on their parents to buy them games. It is no wonder the roster always have had a disproportionately large amount of 1st gen Pokemon. We only had two non-1st gen Pokemon and one of them only got in because it was a last minute clone intended to buff the roster.

The anime is still on the air... and Ash is still 10 years old! Kids these days watch that show and they see Pikachu, Meowth, and a bunch of 5th gen Pokemon running around and battling each other. Kids are constantly exposed to Pikachu and Meowth for over 10 years while getting a small taste of most of the 600+ Pokemon.

The Mario vs. Sonic dream match in Brawl appealed the older gamers of the 1990's... the younger gamers wouldn't understand the big deal. I would say Pikachu vs. Meowth is similar in that respect, although not in the same level of popularity but the popularity is there. Adding Meowth to the roster would finally let Pokemon fans of all ages have their Pikachu vs. Meowth dream match.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

A bounce bracelet would be pretty cool. Wouldn't it be extremely spammable though?

It can always be adjusted so that when Sonic lands on the ground, he won't bounce; it would basically be like a Ground Pound attack.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't say anything about a pattern, he assumed I did and said he's expecting a Colosseum instead of a Stadium 3. Which is the same thing without the number.

A Pokemon Stadium 3 would function completely different from a Colosseum.

Thought if we must have a Pokemon Stadium 3, Oasis_S's idea to go all out would be best.

@Arcadenik: The Meowth fan base is probably demoralized now because fans are currently pushing for Mewtwo's return heavily. If Mewtwo returns for SSB4, I think Meowth's fan base will start to rise again, especially if we get 55+ slots in SSB5 (although the reality is more likely they revamp the game and drop the amount of slots).

 

[Deleted member]

Are people really that demoralized about Meowth's chances that they aren't actively supporting him? It seems to me that his fanbase collapsed after he was confirmed to be a Pokeball Pokemon. Why does Meowth have to be relevant in today's games in order to get in Smash? If anything, he is still one of the two main Pokemon in the anime since the beginning. He's one of the more famous Pokemon... not many Pokemon can achieve that level of fame. Even Sakurai acknowledged that in the Brawl Dojo and Meowth's Brawl trophy.

And here's the thing...1st gen is still popular.. it sells. The older gamers are the ones with buying power, we have the money. The younger gamers, they may be into the 4th or 5th gen games but they usually don't have their own money and may need to rely on their parents to buy them games. It is no wonder the roster always have had a disproportionately large amount of 1st gen Pokemon. We only had two non-1st gen Pokemon and one of them only got in because it was a last minute clone intended to buff the roster.

The anime is still on the air... and Ash is still 10 years old! Kids these days watch that show and they see Pikachu, Meowth, and a bunch of 5th gen Pokemon running around and battling each other. Kids are constantly exposed to Pikachu and Meowth for over 10 years while getting a small taste of most of the 600+ Pokemon.

The Mario vs. Sonic dream match in Brawl appealed the older gamers of the 1990's... the younger gamers wouldn't understand the big deal. I would say Pikachu vs. Meowth is similar in that respect, although not in the same level of popularity but the popularity is there. Adding Meowth to the roster would finally let Pokemon fans of all ages have their Pikachu vs. Meowth dream match.

It's the competition he has.
Mewtwo is very likely to return, but may also not.
Lucario may or may not be cut for a 5th Gen.
A 5th Gen is very likely to be added. Regardless of Mewtwo or Lucario.

Given the uncertainty of Mewtwo and Lucario (both of which likely to be in), and the factor of a 5th Gen, Meowth has to wait in line.

 

[yani_]

@Mario&SonicGuy True, I'm for it!

@Arc Nice post, I do agree.

@SSBF They're both giant Pokemon battle arenas. And if you're saying a PS3 would be different from a Colosseum than it would probably be something such as none of the elemental transformations. Which would be less fun anyway.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm quite looking forward to Meowth too, as you might see from my signature- (-lvl-)

I've played more Starfy 3 now, and I've started to wonder, if Starfy-series becomes represented in SSB4, how would they represent Starly? I'd want to see her as a luigified clone of Starfy, with able to crawl and wall jump. (-lvl-)

 

[yani_]

I haven't played the Starfy series but I'm curious.. What can he do? Is he like a magic type critter or just a fighter?

 

[Oasis_S]

I've played more Starfy 3 now, and I've started to wonder, if Starfy-series becomes represented in SSB4, how would they represent Starly? I'd want to see her as a luigified clone of Starfy, with able to crawl and wall jump. (-lvl-)

You could at least bet on Starfy having a pink palette swap if he were in.


This place has really made me hate the idea of a second (or more) trainer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I had the idea posted few pages back but, I had the idea of 5 Pokemon Trainers in total.

Red has Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard like in Brawl.
Yellow has a Pichu who can evolve into Pikachu and then Raichu.
Lass who has Jigglypuff, Meowth and Eevee (who can also evolve)
Cool Trainer with Lucario, Zoroark and Snorlax
Ruby with Mudkip, Grovyle and Blaziken.

And a separate Mewtwo.

 

[yani_]

This place has really made me hate the idea of a second (or more) trainer.

Me too.

10trainers

 

[Deleted member]

This place has really made me hate the idea of a second (or more) trainer.

If there were a 2nd Trainer, these are the only one's I'd accept (and only ONE of these):

1. May w/ Mudkip, Grovyle, Blaziken
2. Ethan w/ Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligatr
3. Blue w/ Bulbasaur, Charmeleon, Blastoise (to counter Red)
4. N w/ Reshiram OR Zekrom (decide at character selection)
5. Team Rocket (Jessie and James) w/ Arbok and Weezing (Tag-team), Meowth

But at the same time, I'd rather NOT have a 2nd Trainer.

 

[Big-Cat]

Tetra is gonna be part of a set of Zelda figurines coming out. Therefore, she is relevant again and has a good chance at being in Smash.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yani: It's a cute series quite inspired by Kirby, but a marine platformer (meaning its a game with a lots of swimming)
Mostly story has Starfy, a Prince Of Pufftop, falling into sea from the clouds for a reason or another. Three first games centered around Starfy dealing with Ogura, the most iconic antagonist of the series.

Mostly his game makes you encounter loads of NPC's which you have to help.During his adventures he's accompanied by Moe the clam and his sister Starly.

Starfy attacks mostly by spinning into his enemies. He can execute more powerful spinning techniques underwater. He's though said to be not a starfish.

There, wish that clarified something. The series are in easy side as Kirby, so not much challenge if you're looking for it.

 

[Arcadenik]

It's the competition he has.
Mewtwo is very likely to return, but may also not.
Lucario may or may not be cut for a 5th Gen.
A 5th Gen is very likely to be added. Regardless of Mewtwo or Lucario.

Given the uncertainty of Mewtwo and Lucario (both of which likely to be in), and the factor of a 5th Gen, Meowth has to wait in line.

Oh, I see... he has to keep on waiting in a line forever.

Smash 64: Jigglypuff got in over Meowth probably because Sakurai wanted to make a joke character... like a Kirby clone (same A moves, body model, and floating) but with different specials. Mewtwo was considered before Meowth but didn't get in due to time constraints.

Melee: Mewtwo finally gets in, and the path is open for Meowth... only Pichu gets in because Sakurai had time constraints again and needed to buff the roster... and the poster child of 2nd gen would work perfectly as a clone

Brawl: the path is open again, only Pokemon Trainer gets in due to Ash Ketchum having more votes on the Melee poll than Meowth did... and Lucario gets in over Meowth because he's the poster child of 4th gen...

SSB4: Meowth's competition is finally thinning out... but because Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl, fans focus all of their support to Mewtwo instead of supporting both... and that's the least of his worries... because now he has to contend with Lucario who's in danger of being cut, Zoroark who's the poster child of 5th gen, and possibly Victini.

SSB5: because Lucario or Jigglypuff or the 1st gen starters was cut while Mewtwo and Zoroark gets in, Meowth still has to contend with fans crying for the return of Lucario or Jigglypuff or the 1st gen starters and the possible poster children of 6th and 7th gen

When's it going to end? All I want is for Meowth to be playable in at least one Smash game. I wouldn't mind cutting Meowth in SSB5 for someone new because at least I would still play SSB4 with Meowth.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there were a 2nd Trainer, these are the only one's I'd accept (and only ONE of these):

1. May w/ Mudkip, Grovyle, Blaziken
2. Ethan w/ Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligatr
3. Blue w/ Bulbasaur, Charmeleon, Blastoise (to counter Red)
4. N w/ Reshiram OR Zekrom (decide at character selection)
5. Team Rocket (Jessie and James) w/ Arbok and Weezing (Tag-team), Meowth

But at the same time, I'd rather NOT have a 2nd Trainer.

What about Yellow with Pichu, Pikachu and Raichu? It's one character, no switching, only evolving.

 

[Bowserlick]

Eevee might be interesting (perhaps as a replacement to Pokemon Trainer in order to put emphasis on evolution rather than teams).

Depending on situations in battle Eevee can turn into Vaporeon, Flareon, or Leafeon.

Perhaps if Eevee lands a set amount of special attacks she will turn into Vaporeon, a certain percentage amount of damage will turn her into Flareon, and a number of shield blocks would evolve her into Leafeon.

Flareon would be fire based with high attack output.

Vaporeon would be water based with emphasis on knockback (but low attack) and versatility in specials.

Leafeon would be defense and trap based.

 

[Bowserlick]

What about Yellow with Pichu, Pikachu and Raichu? It's one character, no switching, only evolving.

I wonder with the 3DS version (which will emphasis rpg and upgrading elements) will have all pokemon as their first forms. You can evolve them on your 3DS and bring them to the Wii U to fight.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Bowserlick
Except Pokemon don't work like that. And why all this talk about Eevee? Honestly, Eevee seems better suited as a random-type Pokeball Pokemon. It'll evolve into either Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Glaceon, or Leafeon.

 

[Bowserlick]

@Bowserlick
Except Pokemon don't work like that. And why all this talk about Eevee? Honestly, Eevee seems better suited as a random-type Pokeball Pokemon. It'll evolve into either Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Glaceon, or Leafeon.

Some Pokemon do have set conditions that evolve them. I just used Eevee as an example.

It certainly would be novel for a character to change forms in battle (with set conditions).

A more simple way to incorporate evolution would be having first form pokemon on the 3DS and evolving them that way.

 

[Arcadenik]

@Bowserlick
Except Pokemon don't work like that. And why all this talk about Eevee? Honestly, Eevee seems better suited as a random-type Pokeball Pokemon. It'll evolve into either Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Glaceon, or Leafeon.

They are talking about Eevee because its the main character's Pokemon in that Samurai Warriors crossover. And I share your feelings about Eevee being more suitable as a Pokeball summon. That's what I always thought since Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, I see... he has to keep on waiting in a line forever.

Smash 64: Jigglypuff got in over Meowth probably because Sakurai wanted to make a joke character... like a Kirby clone (same A moves, body model, and floating) but with different specials. Mewtwo was considered before Meowth but didn't get in due to time constraints.

Jigglypuff was the 2nd popular Pokemon in Japan at the time. 2nd to Pikachu. Meowth was the 4th, if I recall correctly (Squirtle was 3rd). As for Mewtwo, his movie recently came out during that time.

Melee: Mewtwo finally gets in, and the path is open for Meowth... only Pichu gets in because Sakurai had time constraints again and needed to buff the roster... and the poster child of 2nd gen would work perfectly as a clone

If Pichu wasn't added, there would've been only Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. There was no time contraints. It was the opposite. He had MORE time, not LESS time. Pichu's addition had nothing to do with Meowth's exclusion.

Brawl: the path is open again, only Pokemon Trainer gets in due to Ash Ketchum having more votes on the Melee poll than Meowth did... and Lucario gets in over Meowth because he's the poster child of 4th gen...

Ash was never voted for. Sakurai refered to Pokemon Trainer as "Satoshi" because that's one of his default names.
But other than that, this is true.

SSB4: Meowth's competition is finally thinning out... but because Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl, fans focus all of their support to Mewtwo instead of supporting both... and that's the least of his worries... because now he has to contend with Lucario who's in danger of being cut, Zoroark who's the poster child of 5th gen, and possibly Victini.

Zoroark lost poster child status. Reshiram and Zekrom have taken it's place.

SSB5: because Lucario or Jigglypuff or the 1st gen starters was cut while Mewtwo and Zoroark gets in, Meowth still has to contend with fans crying for the return of Lucario or Jigglypuff or the 1st gen starters and the possible poster children of 6th and 7th gen

Hypothetical. Improbable hypothetical, I might add. Jigglypuff is one of the Original 12 and is not going anywhere. The 1st Gen Starters wouldn't be replaced by Mewtwo or a 5th Gen, they'd be replaced with other Starters. By which don't affect Meowth at all. Not only that, but by this point, cuts are unlikely.
SSB5 is when Meowth has his best shot.

When's it going to end? All I want is for Meowth to be playable in at least one Smash game. I wouldn't mind cutting Meowth in SSB5 for someone new because at least I would still play SSB4 with Meowth.

SSB5 is when Meowth has his best shot.

 

[Deleted member]

What about Yellow with Pichu, Pikachu and Raichu? It's one character, no switching, only evolving.

Yellow is Manga exclusive, and it takes away from Pikachu, who is the mascot for Pokemon. Raichu is also not NEARLY as popular as Pikachu.

Pikachu needs to be by himself. No shoehorning Trainers into everything just because you can. Otherwise, Trainers become the new Landmaster (in terms of excess).

 

[SmashChu]

Lol sales. You've already got Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, and the like in the game. Everyone else is icing on the cake.

Cross over games tend to do poorly. The VS games can't sell with marvel and Capcom characters and the Sega All-Star games didn't sell with Sonic or the rest.

Smash Brothers huge success is an anomaly, not the norm.

 

[Arcadenik]

Cross over games tend to do poorly. The VS games can't sell with marvel and Capcom characters and the Sega All-Star games didn't sell with Sonic or the rest.

Smash Brothers huge success is an anomaly, not the norm.

Maybe its because Nintendo is generally more popular than Capcom, Marvel, and Sega.

 

[Deleted member]

There is a way that Eevee can work in *three* of it's evolutions without actually evolving.
And best of all, it has been done before in one form of media.

Like with Red's Vee in the Pokemon Adventures manga, Eevee could termporarily transform into Vaporeon, Jolteon, or Flareon to do an attack, then turn back into Eevee. This would work for Specials not unlike Ben 10 or Aku in Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion.

 

[Big-Cat]

Some Pokemon do have set conditions that evolve them. I just used Eevee as an example.

It certainly would be novel for a character to change forms in battle (with set conditions).

A more simple way to incorporate evolution would be having first form pokemon on the 3DS and evolving them that way.

Except no Pokemon switches unevolvable evolutions like that. Seriously, what you're going about is closer to the Slide Evolution from Digimon Frontier.

@SmashChu
Those characters you mentioned aren't nearly as popular as most Nintendo characters. No one in their right mind would expect Chun-Li to have as much star power as Peach. Marvel kind of doesn't count considering that Marvel is in a completely different medium. That, and there was an obvious difference between the desires of the gamers and the comic book readers for the Marvel roster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yellow is Manga exclusive, and it takes away from Pikachu, who is the mascot for Pokemon. Raichu is also not NEARLY as popular as Pikachu.

Pikachu needs to be by himself. No shoehorning Trainers into everything just because you can. Otherwise, Trainers become the new Landmaster (in terms of excess).

What I'm mostly thought of with this idea is picking a set of Pokemon the Trainer will use. Yellow would be the name of the Pichu / Pikachu / Raichu set. And it would replace Pikachu as a standard character (but he's still selectable, he just wouldn't evolve). It's a good way to bring back Pichu legitimately. And revamp Pikachu a bit while making Raichu represent the style of fighting Pikachu had in 64 (Falco made it into Melee because of this) but also Melee and Brawl.

Amongst these sets would also be 'Green' or Lass with a Jigglypuff, Meowth and well.. I originally had Eevee but that might be too complex.
Another one has Lucario, Zoroark and Snorlax. The last two are very light clones of Meowth and Jigglypuff, but with very different statistics. He could be called Silver, Diamond, or Black... Whatever works.
Then there's the 3rd gen trainer with Mudkip, Grovyle and Blaziken.

 

[Deleted member]

An alternative way to bring back Pichu would be to make him a 4th Pokemon for the Trainer we got.

That way we get Baby, Basic, Stage 1, and Stage 2.

But don't change Pikachu's status in any way.

 

[Arcadenik]

No more electric rodents. Please. Pikachu is enough. We don't need Pichu, Raichu, Plusle, Minun, Pachirisu, and Emolga.

 

[Deleted member]

Another character I'd like to see, even if the chances of it being slim to none, is Agumon/WarGreymon, working like a reverse Samus/Zero Suit Samus.

And no, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Digimon isn't "inelligible". It started as a pet simulator video game. It may have gained most of it's popularity through the anime, but it was technically a game series first.

 

[SmashChu]

Maybe its because Nintendo is generally more popular than Capcom, Marvel, and Sega.

Except no Pokemon switches unevolvable evolutions like that. Seriously, what you're going about is closer to the Slide Evolution from Digimon Frontier.

@SmashChu
Those characters you mentioned aren't nearly as popular as most Nintendo characters. No one in their right mind would expect Chun-Li to have as much star power as Peach. Marvel kind of doesn't count considering that Marvel is in a completely different medium. That, and there was an obvious difference between the desires of the gamers and the comic book readers for the Marvel roster.

Marvel characters are pretty big and Capcom has a lot of strong properties (You do forget Chun-Li and the rest of Street Fighter is very iconic). Yet cross over games never break 2 million. Most can't break 1. Heck, the VS games usually sell under 1 million (I only say that because I think MvC3 did but barely). They never top the charts and never do well and are always forgotten. Yet Smash is the opposite. Smash is the best selling fighting game. Not the best selling cross over game. But the best selling of it's own genre. Yet we can't have a kart racer like Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing do well. And that was on multiple systems. This is in light of the fact that Capcom has Street Fighter, Sega has Sonic and Marvel has everyone. These characters aren't pushing those games.

Let me apply this to Mario. The best selling Nintendo series now is Mario Kart. Yet the main Mario series sees sales dropping. Galaxy 1 and 2 sold less than 64. Yet Mario Kart goes up and up selling 20 million. Yet Galaxy makes 9 and 6. Why is there such a disparity between these games is the character is selling the series. Also, what about the RPGs. Mario RPGs sell 2 million or less. Yet it has Mario in it. Why is it a far cry from Mario Kart and the main games. And other series like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy do better when they change characters every game. And what about Wii Sports. It didn't have any characters in there. Yet it beats out the Mario Sports Titles. Why did Wii Sports do better than Mario Sports games when the latter has Mario. If that's the case, than how is Mario selling Smash. If he can't sell RPGs and Sports titles, than how is he selling Smash?

The evidence speaks for itself. It's clear that the sales are due to the series itself and not the characters. Smash sells because Smash is good. Even a child can understand that.

 

[Deleted member]

@SmashChu: Because Wii Sports is bundled with the Wii. And has been since the Wii came out.

 

[Aurane]

It's official. Porygon Z is now my most favorite Normal-Type.
#1. Lucario
#2. Porygon Z
#3. Victini