New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Diddy Kong]

Smash needs Impa and Chrome
Roy and Sheik can stay home

 

[Opelucid]

Over 4300 pages on a game that has had very little information revealed about it, doesn't even have a title, and won't even start development for about 6 months or so (maybe longer?). That's a loooooooot of speculation. Quite amazing actually.

Development might actually be starting in January or February now that Kid Icarus has a release date and is pretty much done. Six months would be absolutely ridiculous.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

What's your opinion about Sheik? Are you familiar with other series as well?

Also for the record, Toad could easily be made not generic at all, much like Yoshi (except of coarse for all the Yoshi Team battles we had). Heck they could SO easily make a Event Match like that. Fight an army of 100 Toads, then Mario, then Luigi, then Peach as Bowser in a new Peach's Castle stage

I like to consider myself fairly educated on the ins and outs of just about every major Nintendo franchise, both represented in Smash Bros. and otherwise. I must, however, admit that I am largely ignorant of the Fire Emblem series. What I know of it is only what I have read on Fire Emblem Wikis, and even that information is not much. However, I consider my strongest areas to be the Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda series. These are among my favorite games, and I know more about them than any other series.
When it comes to Shiek, I do see how it could be argued that she is no longer relevant. However, she has a couple major things going for her: she's a veteran and she has somehow retained her popularity. I mostly agree with your criteria for characters (relevancy + popularity + uniqueness, although the relevancy part may not mean as much to me), and while Shiek has lost all relevancy, I believe her popularity outweighs that. The Twilight Princess team drafted a character design for her just for Brawl, and I think that says something about her. Also (and this point involves another of my neurotic rules), I would never cut a veteran. It just doesn't sit right with me for some reason. Plus, vets present less hassling additions to the roster in terms of development. It's much easier for the dev team to make minor adjustments to veterans, then stick them in the roster than to build new characters from the ground up. Designing new characters takes a lot more man power and time. My point here is that, essentially, veterans aren't jeopardizing the spots of potential new characters. I could see Shiek removed, but she isn't blocking any new characters from entering. Perhaps she could be replaced with Impa, but that would be upsetting to Shiek, and arguably, Ocarina fans. Would I be devastated if she were dropped? Not really. But I think it's unnecessary to cut her. It should be considered no spoiler that she is, in fact, on my list right now. I just tend to not want to cut veterans.

And I absolutely agree that Toad could be made non-generic, but I feel like Toadsworth is more unique. Just having Toad instead of Toadsworth would be like having a regular Koopa Kid instead of Bowser Jr. (I don't mean the awesome ones from Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and NSMB Wii, I mean the generic, Baby Bowser-looking ones that appear sometimes on Bowser spaces in Mario Party 4). Toadsworth has more personality than a regular Toad, and he fits the bill for being a Toad.

 

[Big-Cat]

Actually, Sheik's design was a scrapped design from Twilight Princess' development. Although, the Zelda team did send their designs in to Sakurai for Sheik and Ganondorf.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Oh goodness, I stand corrected. But the fact that they even came up with a design in the first place has to hold some significance, right?

 

[Virum]

Development might actually be starting in January or February now that Kid Icarus has a release date and is pretty much done. Six months would be absolutely ridiculous.

Yeah my mistake. Apparently release date is around March though.

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh goodness, I stand corrected. But the fact that they even came up with a design in the first place has to hold some significance, right?

Yeah. Although, we don't know if, say, Midna had been planned for Skyward Sword (would've been cool), or even Malon and Saria as well.

That reminds me, Zelda should get a Malon color and maybe even a Saria color.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I readed Dixie's trophy in Brawl:

" She packs more power than you can imagine!"

Is... this...

 

[Pseudomaniac]

To be quite frank, I have no idea why this Sheik vs. Impa debate has even gone on for so long except for a few people that will not let it go. I can't say for sure which is likeliest, although since Sakurai seems to like keeping character designs up to modern standards, either Sheik will be replaced by Impa or will have her design changed to look like SS Impa, but I honestly don't know why people seem to care so much.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

To be quite frank, I have no idea why this Sheik vs. Impa debate has even gone on for so long except for a few people that will not let it go. I can't say for sure which is likeliest, although since Sakurai seems to like keeping character designs up to modern standards, either Sheik will be replaced by Impa or will have her design changed to look like SS Impa, but I honestly don't know why people seem to care so much.

I think it's just more of a matter of fandom. Sheik is my choice because I hate to see veterans go. I just don't think it's necessary.

 

[Baskerville]

Impa is her own character, so it wouldn't make any sense to replace Sheik or change her design.

 

[yani_]

I honestly have doubts that we'll be getting the SS designs of the characters anyway

Impa replacing Shiek is just dumb.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'd really like to see SS redesigns, but I suppose we could do without. Honestly, Link's redesign wouldn't be that difficult. Zelda, however, would be tricky; she's very young in SS. Ganondorf would also be tough, since he would likely have to be built from the ground up.

 

[Deleted member]

Welcome aboard GiantBreadbug!

Honestly, being generic did not stop Yoshi from getting in. More people are going to be familiar with Toad then Toadsworth, plus Toadsworth is an old man, so he really isn't suited for fighting. I say put Toad in as a playable character and make Toadsworth Peach's Neutral B.

Smash needs Roy and Sheik
Chrome and Impa can stay home

 

[yani_]

Glad to see Diddy Kong had a change of heart

 

[Big-Cat]

More people are going to be familiar with Toad then Toadsworth, plus Toadsworth is an old man, so he really isn't suited for fighting.

[COLLAPSE="Old Guys"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

We get it Kuma... but this is NINTENDO/Mario-series we are talking about. Toadsworth fighting? (-l^i-);

 

[Oasis_S]

If Ridley were in Brawl, I would not be following Smash 4. Really, if Ridley, Mewtwo, and Roy were on Brawl's roster, it would have been perfect to me.

Is it okay if I think of you as the GRANDPAPPY of Ridley supporters. I'm pretty curious why Ridley had a lot of support back in the Melee days anyway. He just had Super Metroid going for him, yeah? I know he's PRETTY FREAKING COOL, but I don't really remember him doing a whole lot to set himself above, say, Mother Brain. Maybe his connection with Samus was in the instruction manual or something? I dunno, maybe that opening battle was enough to make him a fan favorite, lol.

 

[Aurane]

Toadsworth wouldn't fight. Maybe assist, but not fight.

I've been workiong on my favorite Sm4sh character pic, and so far I have...
Victini, Adeline, Master Chief, Ridley, Knuckles, and Young Link
I need three more...

 

[Pichu Fan]

The only thing i really want from smash 4 is bandana dee and issac. That alone would be enough for me.

 

[Deleted member]

[COLLAPSE="Old Guys"]

[/COLLAPSE]

To be fair, they can fight. It's just that Toadsworth isn't nearly as capable.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Toadsworth wouldn't fight. Maybe assist, but not fight.

I've been workiong on my favorite Sm4sh character pic, and so far I have...
Victini, Adeline, Master Chief, Ridley, Knuckles, and Young Link
I need three more...

Needs moar Starfy.

 

[Big-Cat]

To be fair, they can fight. It's just that Toadsworth isn't nearly as capable.

You don't know that. I'm not defending him or anything, but you can just make assumptions just like that.

You also just can't make the assumption that old people can't fight.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Darned double posts. Next page.

 

[Deleted member]

@KumaOso: If Nintendo isn't willing to show that Toadsworth can fight at his old age, then I'm not going to assume otherwise.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Welcome aboard GiantBreadbug!

Honestly, being generic did not stop Yoshi from getting in. More people are going to be familiar with Toad then Toadsworth, plus Toadsworth is an old man, so he really isn't suited for fighting. I say put Toad in as a playable character and make Toadsworth Peach's Neutral B.

I think what I'm trying to say is that Toadsworth brings more personality to the table than a regular Toad. If there were a special Yoshi that was specifically designed and unique, but basically was still a Yoshi, I would bet that he would be the one representing the species. (Now that I think about it, the Yoshi in Smash Bros. could very well be the original Yoshi from Super Mario World.) I don't think it has anything to do with age, but rather choosing a Toad as unique and fleshed-out as possible. That being said, a regular Toad and his color changes being playable, and Toadsworth being Peach's neutral special seems reasonable. Given the choice, however, I would take Toadsworth.

And thanks for the welcome! I'm excited to be here.

Edit: And I think we should be careful about using phrases like "X can't fight," or "X doesn't seem like a fighter." Characters shouldn't be judged as not fitting the fighting atomosphere. That's what makes Smash Bros. so interesting, I think: seeing characters of all different types (Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, etc.) duke it out.

 

[Aurane]

You don't know that. I'm not defending him or anything, but you can just make assumptions just like that.

You also just can't make the assumption that old people can't fight.

I think Mario and Luigi RPG series proved it quite enough. He showed some flair when the princess was in trouble, but he was pushed to the side.

@GiantBreadBug Yeah, but remember, they all have shown some sort of fighting. IC has fought on their games, and G&W fought as well.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@Mario and Sonic Guy

I'm just wondering, knowing that you despise Ghirahim as a candidate, do you support any other Zelda character for the spot?

I can't really think of any good newcomers for the Legend of Zelda franchise. All that I can say is bring back all the ones who were in Brawl; this does include Sheik and Toon Link.

So to maybe spark another disscusion, since I agree with N on that there should be just as many AT characters as Pokeballs, who would people like to see as AT characters (this includes characters in the character pool as well)?

I'd like to see:

Eggplant Wizard
Takamaru or Lip (whoever doesn't make it)
Photoman (If MM gets in)
Bald Bull
Kamek
Pegasus Sisters (FE)
Rosalina

Eggplant Wizard: Yes
Takamaru: I have him as a playable.
Lip: Don't care.
Photoman: Not sure.
Bald Bull: I have Glass Joe and King Hippo on the list of ATs.
Kamek: Yes
Pegasus Sisters: ???
Rosalina: I had her classified as an alternate outfit for Peach. People probably won't agree with my thought though.

 

[ChronoBound]

The only thing i really want from smash 4 is bandana dee and issac. That alone would be enough for me.

What about Pichu? Or have you accepted that his chances of return are too low?

 

[Zzuxon]

I think what I'm trying to say is that Toadsworth brings more personality to the table than a regular Toad. If there were a special Yoshi that was specifically designed and unique, but basically was still a Yoshi, I would bet that he would be the one representing the species. (Now that I think about it, the Yoshi in Smash Bros. could very well be the original Yoshi from Super Mario World.) I don't think it has anything to do with age, but rather choosing a Toad as unique and fleshed-out as possible. That being said, a regular Toad and his color changes being playable, and Toadsworth being Peach's neutral special seems reasonable. Given the choice, however, I would take Toadsworth.

And thanks for the welcome! I'm excited to be here.

Edit: And I think we should be careful about using phrases like "X can't fight," or "X doesn't seem like a fighter." Characters shouldn't be judged as not fitting the fighting atomosphere. That's what makes Smash Bros. so interesting, I think: seeing characters of all different types (Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, etc.) duke it out.

Toad has a very unique personality. He tries to be dutiful, but his paranoia gets in the way.

And I completely agree with what you said about fighting. Movesets should play 2nd fiddle to plain "should the character be in Smash?" Thats why I support Tom Nook. Also, a welcome from myself too.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Someone said old guys in video games can't fight?

These guys would like to have a word with you.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Heihachi may look old, but he's still not someone you want to trifle with. Sadly, the odds of him being in Smash 4 are quite small, at best.

 

[---]

Pegasus Sisters: ???

They're from FE. I believe they were once rumored to be ATs in the orignal Brawl demo.

Either way being the most recurring playable characters in the series (even more than Marth), they need their time to shine, not to mention the Triangle Attack is a staple of the FE series since the very beginning.


So what is the current topic right now?

 

[Aurane]

Hmm... I'd say that old ppl can fight, but there are those that really should not be in Brawl. BTW listen to this, a conversation on Facebook

P1: ...People argue all the time about the ruvalry between Mario and Sonic. Why hasn't anyone said anything about Young Link and Toon Link?
P2: They have, but they acknowledge Mario and Sonic more than those two.
P1: It makes no sense, though. They shouldn't even rival anymore. They have no reason to.
P2: Yes they do. They're not friends, nor will they ever be.

I'll be the first to say it, that's pretty F***ing obnoxios to say.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ghirahim is a perfect candidate. Sakurai complained about a lack of new Nintendo characters. Well, now we have one. Ghirahim has a wealth of personality (would be the first flamboyant villain in the series) and a wealth of moves from the latest Zelda game. His chances of being in Smash is very high.

 

[Baskerville]

They redesigned him in TTT2 and gave him an epic mustache. =P

 

[Gallowglass]

I think what I'm trying to say is that Toadsworth brings more personality to the table than a regular Toad. If there were a special Yoshi that was specifically designed and unique, but basically was still a Yoshi, I would bet that he would be the one representing the species. (Now that I think about it, the Yoshi in Smash Bros. could very well be the original Yoshi from Super Mario World.) I don't think it has anything to do with age, but rather choosing a Toad as unique and fleshed-out as possible. That being said, a regular Toad and his color changes being playable, and Toadsworth being Peach's neutral special seems reasonable. Given the choice, however, I would take Toadsworth.

With that logic then Boshi should be in Smash instead of Yoshi.

Toad also stands out in Mario games. In the same game (Super Mario RPG) Toad was specifically named in the game among the other toad guards. In the lineup he stood in the front row in the left column. He also helped Mario out in the games Mario had to play.

 

[ChronoBound]

Interestingly enough, the pegasus sisters were among the several rumored assist trophies prior to Brawls release.

On a side note, I have finally begun to play Skyward Sword. So far it seems to be a mixture of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. At least the village at the beginning (and villagers) remind me of Wind Waker, while many of the enemies seem more like Twilight Princess affair.

 

[Metal Overlord]

If anyone from Tekken gets in, it'll prolly be Jin or Kazuya

 

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound: The village seems like a mixture of Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker.

On to another topic, I think when we get a subforum, mods should have some control over it. I'll elaborate on it later tonight.

Also, someone needs to make a 2012 poll for who is the most popular candidate. If not, I'm doing it.