New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Starphoenix]

handclap for effort XD I never mentioned you being mad.

Either way

I'm not going to argue Mii vs. ROB cause
1) I understand I underestimated their popularity (in my general area people dislike them)
2) I still find it as an opinion. I still see saving Nintendo bigger than getting Nintendo in a new fad

Hey, just letting it be known.

Understand your first point because honestly I am not a big fan of the Mii concept. Like certain other characters they seem rather boring to me at this moment. I do not doubt Sakurai could make them interesting, but I will wait for that time to come.

The situation is definitely different, but just because the Mii was a major success for Nintendo in another manner does not make their contribution any less impactful. It is not an easy thing to intentionally, or unintentionally, create a character that is as recognizable as Mario yet Nintendo did just that. Only four Nintendo series have managed to trascend into pop culture like that; Mario, Donkey Kong, Pokémon and The Legend of Zelda. Now there is a fifth with Miis and the Wii/Console Series. Tis only my point.

What?! That sounds like a load of hyperbole to me.

They may have the third highest sales in the world, but they are no means anywhere near the likes of Mario and Link. They aren't even "characters" for crying out loud.

Yes they are.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't want Miis playable, and I doubt they are gonna be. A Mii could have played the role in Brawl as a WTF-character, but ROB took that role in Brawl. I also don't think the Mii has any potential another character doesn't have. Make a stage for them or something, or base items or Assist Trophies of them, but not as a playable character.

Also about this Mario Kart 7 thing... That Diddy and Bowser Jr. aren't in isn't as big of a deal

Spoiler

(well for me it means not buying the game but whatever )

as it is for Waluigi. Diddy is from a whole different series all togheter, so he can easily be left out if they want more Mario characters instead. Bowser Jr. is an important villian, so most likely he'll return in another game anyway (why they choose Metal Mario, Wigler or Queen Bee above him is beyond me but whatever) but Waluigi relies soley on these roles. So if they don't pick him, it's a loss somehow in imporance, and thus he's as disposable as characters not even as relevent to spin-offs as Diddy & Bowser Jr. Is Daisy even playable actually? Wouldn't be suprised at this point, cause she's mainly the same.

Spoiler

HII'MDAISY

 

[smashbot226]

>putting Mii's on the same level as Mario, Pacman, and Sonic
>you're actually serious

They may sell well but you'd have to live under a rock for the past ten years to even suggest Mii's are a spopular.

Hell I could go outside right now and ask them what a Mii is. Then ask who the other three are. You'll get your answer shortly enough.

As for Ray's chances, well, he turned out as an Assist Trophy. So Sakurai definitely is aware of him. However, the lack of a recent Custom Robo game hurt his chances in my opinion, but he's definitely got some chances, albeit slim.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who knows, Custom Robo WiiU or 3DS could become the next Pokemon?

 

[Deleted member]

Mii's are a freaking video game PHENOMENON. Wii series is the THIRD best selling series (Only topped by Mario and Poke) and it's only been out for.... like, six years? Wii Sports itself ALONE is outsold Legend Of Zelda AS A WHOLE.

Really, they're totally not comparable because the Mii's should have been in Brawl before ROB. The Miis should be THE FIRST character Sakurai figures out. Before Megahag, before Goroh, before RIDELY.

Nowhere did I say that I hated the Mii's. That's xIblisx you're referring to.

 

[smashbot226]

Who knows, Custom Robo WiiU or 3DS could become the next Pokemon?

Chances are more likely for a gen 5 rerelease, Gray or Rainbow, before gen 6 or a remake. And even then, it's just wishful thinking for a Gen 3 remake.

Spoiler

How about Mega Man's chances?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wii Sports outsold Zelda only cause you got it free with the Wii. Bring up stuff like Wii Play, Wii Sports Resots and stuff and you'll probably see it's MUCH less significant.

Spoiler

>don't actually know the sales numbers
>call the cops, I don't give a ****

 

[Conviction]

I want to pursue my disagreement farther but it would just be me restating my opinion again, and saying how I think Miis are a fad that most likely will die when a new fad comes.

Ex. Flips phones then, Slide phones now.

EDIT: Oh I see others share my views. I didn't want derail the thread but since it's happened....

Mii's are a fad and I see them as that, it just looks like a PC idea rehash honestly. They might be important now but later when the next fad comes along it won't be as memorable in Nintendo's history as ROB.

I mean forreal, OH HEY LOOK WE MADE A FAD compared to LOOK AT THIS, THIS, THIS SAVED OUR LIVES.

P.S. Smashbot still is hilarious.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Custom Robo, Chibi Robo, and Advanced Wars.... are.... not looking good. To put it nicely. You're the only one in A WHILE who has brought Custom Robo up. No one else in a long time has brought up the other two.

I know, that's why I brought it up. Something new! Custom Robo holds more promise than either of those two series though, ESPECIALLY Chibi-Robo.

Ray makes me sad. >:

I think he's way more interesting than Saki or Shulk, and his stage and music would lend a lot to Smash. LOADS OF FRESHNESS. But I just say with confidence that he has much of a shot. U3U

@Shorts: Chibi-Robo BDDD

Wait... so you're saying that you are confident that Ray still has a good shot at making it?

Yes they are.

Eh, I'd disagree. They're more like avatars who represent something/someone else. They don't have any actual personality or anything defining. And they are DEFINITELY not yet at the same level as characters like Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong.

 

[Shorts]

Nowhere did I say that I hated the Mii's. That's xIblisx you're referring to.

I KNOW THAT. Have no idea how your name got there.


Regaurdless if Miis are a fad or not. Numbers don't lie. They're massive. And will be around FOR ANOTHER SIX YEARS.

 

[Oasis_S]

Wait... so you're saying that you are confident that Ray still has a good shot at making it?

...Oh. Whoops. Left out the most important word in that sentence.

CAN'T.

 

[Opelucid]

I feel like I missed something... oh well anyway I doubt Mii's will end up being playable I actually think that they'll actually take the Alloy's spot in the multi-man brawl thing. (man so many people are viewing this thread)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Chances are more likely for a gen 5 rerelease, Gray or Rainbow, before gen 6 or a remake. And even then, it's just wishful thinking for a Gen 3 remake.

Spoiler

How about Mega Man's chances?

I want a game like Colloseum again. 3D adventuring was cool, but now I want to actually walk the damn routes and catch me sum Pokeymansturz. Haven't played Black or White etiher

Spoiler

cause my DS broke, and I didn't give enough poops to get it replaced

-so I'd like to catch in if an oppertunity comes like that.

Also I don't give much of a **** about said spoiled character. But to me, it seems unlikely.

 

[smashbot226]

Mii WILL have functionality though. Replace the head of your character with the head of your Mii.

Hilarity ensues.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

...Oh. Whoops. Left out the most important word in that sentence.

CAN'T.

Ah, that makes much more sense now.

But wait... F-Zero has been dead about as long as Custom Robo, yet people still expect Samurai Goroh. I realize that F-Zero was much more popular and well-known, but it's still just as dead as Custom Robo. If a new F-Zero character made it, couldn't Ray?

EDIT: Nevermind, F-Zero has actually been dead a while longer than Custom Robo. I guess that can help Ray's chances...

 

[smashbot226]

Ah, that makes much more sense now.

But wait... F-Zero has been dead about as long as Custom Robo, yet people still expect Samurai Goroh. I realize that F-Zero was much more popular and well-known, but it's still just as dead as Custom Robo. If a new F-Zero character made it, couldn't Ray?

Because they think Falcon Punch is hilarious and relevant.

Spoiler

They're morons

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mii WILL have functionality though. Replace the head of your character with the head of your Mii.

Hilarity ensues.

Horrors would ensue. I don't wanna fight no ****in' Barack Obamas, Hitlers, Hilary Clintons and whatever the **** they wanna make when I would go online.

 

[Deleted member]

Ray makes me sad. >:

I think he's way more interesting than Saki or Shulk, and his stage and music would lend a lot to Smash. LOADS OF FRESHNESS. But I just say with confidence that he has much of a shot. U3U

@Shorts: Chibi-Robo BDDD

You're not alone in that. Ray is my personal choice for a new series and I would love to see what he brings out. Unfortunately, it seems as the days goes by, he slowly but surely is fading into obscurity. It seems as the only thing left he has to stand on is the AT treatment he got in Brawl.

But wait... F-Zero has been dead about as long as Custom Robo, yet people still expect Samurai Goroh. I realize that F-Zero was much more popular and well-known, but it's still just as dead as Custom Robo. If a new F-Zero character made it, couldn't Ray?

In Ray's defense, he did appear in a game later then F-zero, so he's technically more relevant, but that's not saying much.

 

[Shorts]

Ah, that makes much more sense now.

But wait... F-Zero has been dead about as long as Custom Robo, yet people still expect Samurai Goroh. I realize that F-Zero was much more popular and well-known, but it's still just as dead as Custom Robo. If a new F-Zero character made it, couldn't Ray?

I just know Goroh has been wanted since....Melee. And has had a DECENT sized fin base since. Ray MK... kind of doesn't compare. "Dead" doesn't matter for the most part. I just don't think there is much of a demand for Ray. But you never know with Sakurai.

 

[smashbot226]

Horrors would ensue. I don't wanna fight no ****in' Barack Obamas, Hitlers, Hilary Clintons and whatever the **** they wanna make when I would go online.

Proponents get their playable Mii, everyone else gets a hilarious yet optional function.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They, but in defence of say Krystal, why should Ray MK make it above her for example? Both have equally good oppertunities for movesets.

Also, I never played his game, but I'd like Takamaru in the game a lot. Samurais rule

Spoiler

especially after I've seen 13 Assassins

- and he'd make for a great moveset I believe. Plus, I hope it increases his chance of getting a new (internationally localised) game.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

You're not alone in that. Ray is my personal choice for a new series and I would love to see what he brings out. Unfortunately, it seems as the days goes by, he slowly but surely is fading into obscurity. It seems as the only thing left he has to stand on is the AT treatment he got in Brawl. In Ray's defense, he did appear in a game later then F-zero, so he's technically more relevant, but that's not saying much.

Maybe his Assist Trophy treatment helps him appeal to Smash fans more. And that's right, his latest game was a few years after the last F-Zero game. F-Zero is even more dead than Custom Robo, yet people still expect a new F-Zero character (including me). I feel like I should support Ray for that same reason... the only thing holding him down is that his series hasn't produced a new game in a while.

 

[Starphoenix]

>putting Mii's on the same level as Mario, Pacman, and Sonic
>you're actually serious

They may sell well but you'd have to live under a rock for the past ten years to even suggest Mii's are a spopular.

Hell I could go outside right now and ask them what a Mii is. Then ask who the other three are. You'll get your answer shortly enough.

If you actually want to debate me on this I am more than willing to defend my position. Just because you have a personal dislike for them does not negate what these characters/avatars/paradoxes/or whatever you want to call them represent. Heck I go to my locale bowling ally and they have a Mii in their ad. So obviously they are not that obscure (even then there are other weird little incidents I could cite, but that is not my goal). Just because some of you cannot wrap your mind about whether they constitute a legitimate entity or not are missing the point altogether. It is not about what makes sense, you are playing a freaking game where guys can hit each other with swords and only mildly bat people away for crying out loud, but what is a character that carries a little more weight. After all, has not the debate been for the past months what characters deserve to be playable? I think Miis do, and I do not even care for them.

Say what you will about my defense of the Mii being a larger icon, but there is no disputing the success of the Wii series. Even the individual titles apart from Wii Sports have moved tremendous numbers.

 

[Conviction]

*Can see presidents running campaigns through smash* "EVERY WIN IS A VOTE FOR ME!"

http://********/images/obama-meh/not-bad.jpg

 

[yani_]

Sigh.. last post on this~


Your original statement:

I could go on and on about how third parties wont be added, but I'll say this.

1)It is not a walk in the park to add any third party character. You have to go though a lot of legality, and pay fees to use them. Sakurai has also gone on record say it's harder to make third party characters work than building a game from the ground up. Adding them isn't easy and having a lot of them (3,4 or even 5) is hard to keep up
2)As much as you think otherwise, the game is still a Nintendo All Star game. Sakurai has defined it as such and it's plastered all over the game in terms of advertisements
3)Games have guest characters all the time (which is what the third parties are. Sakurai even said that on the Dojo). Usually they are kicked out after a game. They rarely, if ever, come back. This is why you don't see Yoda in SC5. You also wont see banjo in the next Sega All-Stars game. I'm sure there are more.

1) Snake & Sonic are in Brawl. They have already worked out an agreement. It would be much easier doing it a second time around. The smash series didn't NEED 3rd party characters. Sakurai did it anyway. No one ever said there will be 5 3rd parties. It's in favor that either those two will return or they'll get added for another 3rd party or two.

2) Yes, and he chose to include Snake at the very beginning. Who wanted Snake in?

3) I took the liberty of putting "SC5" in bold so you understand the reference this time. The Soul Caliber series is a multi-platform series. They put in console exclusive characters (Link GC Spawn Xbox, Yoda 360, Vader PS3). For a situation like that, it would be pointless to keep getting 3 different character rights from 3 different companies (Ninty,Sony,Soft) in order to keep them in the future titles. Keeping in mind that they obviously wouldn't let their exclusive characters on other consoles. Their exclusive characters are the selling point in their games. Who would've honestly bought SC2 for GC if Link wasn't in it? Sonic & SEGA Racing is also a multi-platform game. They can't feature Banjo Kazooie in every version, he belongs to M$. They included him in the 360 version to say "Hey we have Banjo Kazooie buy our version instead of the other ones". With Smash you do not have that problem. Smash is a series exclusive to Nintendo. Millions of people would have bought Brawl whether Snake & Sonic were in or not. Snake wasn't included to say "Oh look our game features Snake come buy it" Snake was included because his creator begged Sakurai to put him in Smash bros. Give me a reason why he won't beg to keep him in the series? Or better yet, give me a reason why Sakurai would say no after already allowing it in the first place. You can argue that Sonic's situation is a bit different, because he was more fan-demanded, but Sega let him in. There's absolutely no reason Konami and Sega to turn around and say No you can't use our characters for the next game, especially since the reception, for the most part, was positive. Lastly, given the fact that this game will be built off of Brawl, they're practically already in. It's more of just getting the okay to keep em.

I know SmashChu is not here to debate his points, but I will interject my own comments.

1): Obviously you have not read what Sakurai has stated regarding including third party characters. He has stated how extraordinarily difficult it is to include third party characters even going so far as to say it is more difficult than building a game from the ground up. I am not sure that makes sense to me, but since he is the developer he has a better understanding of everything involved than I do. Agreements and relationships change all of the time in business, and with cameos and crossovers involved there is much more than just "hey lets throw such and such in there". Cross advertisement is a VERY tricky subject.

2 & 3): I tend to disagree with SmashChu on these points, but I still understand what he is getting at.

I'm aware of what he has said. There's no doubt in my mind it's hard. But he's already done it. They are already there. It would be easier to keep them in then to do it with another company and start the whole long annoying process over, wouldn't it?

 

[Conviction]

I think I actually like this thread again! There is more debating I can get into again.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe his Assist Trophy treatment helps him appeal to Smash fans more. And that's right, his latest game was a few years after the last F-Zero game. F-Zero is even more dead than Custom Robo, yet people still expect a new F-Zero character (including me). I feel like I should support Ray for that same reason... the only thing holding him down is that his series hasn't produced a new game in a while.

I'm not exactly sure what we could do to increase Ray support. We could always parade around his move set potentials, his AT treatment, and that it's a potential new series, which attracts people. So he does have some potential to gain a fan base based off that for SSB4 again, although likely not at large as Brawl (I remember ChronoBound commenting on him being one of the most wanted new series newcomers). Personally, I feel pessimistic about him, but perhaps there's hope if Sakurai adds lots of new series.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I think I actually like this thread again! There is more debating I can get into again.

Agreed! Which is why I've been on for so long today.

P.S. Check out the character discussion group and give us your two cents, if you want to that is. I'd be appreciated.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah but the more debating comes with more stupid as well.

I did say it before but again: I want characters to be more like their actual sizes. It would help characters like Bowser for example (more weight and more range would help) or Pikachu (harder to hit). Cause seriously... Wario being almost SHORTER than Kirby or Pika doesn't make SENCE.

 

[Starphoenix]

1) Snake & Sonic are in Brawl. They have already worked out an agreement. It would be much easier doing it a second time around. The smash series didn't NEED 3rd party characters. Sakurai did it anyway. No one ever said there will be 5 3rd parties. It's in favor that either those two will return or they'll get added for another 3rd party or two.

2) Yes, and he chose to include Snake at the very beginning. Who wanted Snake in?

3) I took the liberty of putting "SC5" in bold so you understand the reference this time. The Soul Caliber series is a multi-platform series. They put in console exclusive characters (Link GC Spawn Xbox, Yoda 360, Vader PS3). For a situation like that, it would be pointless to keep getting 3 different character rights from 3 different companies (Ninty,Sony,Soft) in order to keep them in the future titles. Keeping in mind that they obviously wouldn't let their exclusive characters on other consoles. Their exclusive characters are the selling point in their games. Who would've honestly bought SC2 for GC if Link wasn't in it? Sonic & SEGA Racing is also a multi-platform game. They can't feature Banjo Kazooie in every version, he belongs to M$. They included him in the 360 version to say "Hey we have Banjo Kazooie buy our version instead of the other ones". With Smash you do not have that problem. Smash is a series exclusive to Nintendo. Millions of people would have bought Brawl whether Snake & Sonic were in or not. Snake wasn't included to say "Oh look our game features Snake come buy it" Snake was included because his creator begged Sakurai to put him in Smash bros. Give me a reason why he won't beg to keep him in the series? Or better yet, give me a reason why Sakurai would say no after already allowing it in the first place. You can argue that Sonic's situation is a bit different, because he was more fan-demanded, but Sega let him in. There's absolutely no reason Konami and Sega to turn around and say No you can't use our characters for the next game, especially since the reception, for the most part, was positive. Lastly, given the fact that this game will be built off of Brawl, they're practically already in. It's more of just getting the okay to keep em.

I know SmashChu is not here to debate his points, but I will interject my own comments.

1): Obviously you have not read what Sakurai has stated regarding including third party characters. He has stated how extraordinarily difficult it is to include third party characters even going so far as to say it is more difficult than building a game from the ground up. I am not sure that makes sense to me, but since he is the developer he has a better understanding of everything involved than I do. Agreements and relationships change all of the time in business, and with cameos and crossovers involved there is much more than just "hey lets throw such and such in there". Cross advertisement is a VERY tricky subject.

2 & 3): I tend to disagree with SmashChu on these points, but I still understand what he is getting at.

I'm not exactly sure what we could do to increase Ray support. We could always parade around his move set potentials, his AT treatment, and that it's a potential new series, which attracts people. So he does have some potential to gain a fan base based off that for SSB4 again, although likely not at large as Brawl (I remember ChronoBound commenting on him being one of the most wanted new series newcomers). Personally, I feel pessimistic about him, but perhaps there's hope if Sakurai adds lots of new series.

Nothing. That's what. Apart from a series revival anything short of hypnosis upon Sakurai is going to help his cause. Sorry, just keeping it real.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah but the more debating comes with more stupid as well.

I did say it before but again: I want characters to be more like their actual sizes. It would help characters like Bowser for example (more weight and more range would help) or Pikachu (harder to hit). Cause seriously... Wario being almost SHORTER than Kirby or Pika doesn't make SENCE.

That's why canon doesn't exist in Smash and why Ridley can be resized. So while unpleasant in some area, the overall result benefits characters a LOT.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I'm not exactly sure what we could do to increase Ray support. We could always parade around his move set potentials, his AT treatment, and that it's a potential new series, which attracts people. So he does have some potential to gain a fan base based off that for SSB4 again, although likely not at large as Brawl (I remember ChronoBound commenting on him being one of the most wanted new series newcomers). Personally, I feel pessimistic about him, but perhaps there's hope if Sakurai adds lots of new series.

Those all greatly help him in my opinion. Like I said, the only thing holding him back is the fact that his series is dead at the moment and it wasn't as big of a seller as most series in Smash. His popularity at that time, his familiarity among Smash fans, and the chance that he is still probably a popular SSB4 pick helps his case. I too feel pessimistic about him, but he's still in the fight. Isaac almost seems like a shoe-in when it comes to new series reps though.

We'll see after the next E3 when we're bound to get more info on SSB4. The internet is going to start in fire with all of the speculation and character support. That announcement last E3 only sparked the fire, the next E3 will make it spread out of control.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah sure, actual sized Kirby wouldn't be able to land hits at all. But I'm talking like... Kirby and Pika being 80% of their Brawl size, but Bowser being like 130%? Nothing too greatly different, but more noticable for sure.

Ridley I'd even consider should be smaller than Bowser (not counting wings for now).

 

[Conviction]

Agreed! Which is why I've been on for so long today.

P.S. Check out the character discussion group and give us your two cents, if you want to that is. I'd be appreciated.

On it.

That's why canon doesn't exist in Smash and why Ridley can be resized. So while unpleasant in some area, the overall result benefits characters a LOT.

This sooo much, if it was actual size, I'd die.

Those all greatly help him in my opinion. Like I said, the only thing holding him back is the fact that his series is dead at the moment and it wasn't as big of a seller as most series in Smash. I too feel pessimistic about him, but he's still in the fight. Isaac almost seems like a shoe-in when it comes to new series reps though.

Ray is like the dying hero that everyone wants to return but he seems dead. Imo

 

[Starphoenix]

Ray is like the dying hero that everyone wants to return but he seems dead. Imo

Pretty much sums him up. We need more robots in Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

Those all greatly help him in my opinion. Like I said, the only thing holding him back is the fact that his series is dead at the moment and it wasn't as big of a seller as most series in Smash. I too feel pessimistic about him, but he's still in the fight. Isaac almost seems like a shoe-in when it comes to new series reps though.

For new series, I consider Little Mac to have the best odds thanks to his revival that did well and being a highly popular request. It's also one of the very few important Nintendo series left without a playable rep (along with Animal Crossing and Mii's). Golden Sun also has great odds and Isaac sounds likely, but he has to compete with Matthew for a spot.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Give Ness his robot body for an alternate costume.

 

[Oasis_S]

Pretty much sums him up. We need more robots in Smash Bros.

Especially after what happened in the Subspace Emissary. R.O.B. needs a BIG OL' hug from Sukapon, Ray, Chibi-Robo, and Mega Man.

 

[yani_]

@Star I replied in my other post.

I hope little mac gets in , his support seems to be growing lots

 

[Diddy Kong]

Animal Crossing and Mii should just be represented by stages and items, nothing more.

Little Mac seems far most likely from all Assist Thropies. Being from a fighting game itself also greatly helps. His moveset would basically write it's own, and that's probably good. He'd bring something interessting to him.

I'd also love me some Golden Sun representation. I don't care who, but I'd honestly prefer Isaac as I haven't played Dark Dawn yet (of which I should be ashamed, but am not) but it seems he returned there. Hopefully he'll have more of a role in GS 4 though.

Spoiler

inb4 Isaac and Matthew become the new Ness and Lucas

Actually I'd like to do a Isaac moveset sometime...