New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Berserker.]

Fox is a flaw? He isn't even near broken.

Majority says the brawl is fine as is. The only clear flaw I see is MK and Ganondorf..... But that's it. It successfully appealed to the competitive fanbase. Like it or not. Hell forth, it even got in MLG.... For a short time. Brawl is still successful as fan service and as a game according to the majority. The only people I see that hate brawl are those who can't accept the change.

Brawl IS NOT a downgrade. Sakurai simply slow down the physics and made it more accessible to the casual side of the fanbase. I'm not saying the casuals could not handle the technical aspect of Melee (But I know a lot of people who couldn't handle Melee's competitive-ness) but that's the only thing Sakurai did and it wasn't bad. The defensive nature of Brawl is something to complain about... But it isn't worth whining about. So what if it's too defensive? Does that disadvantage itself make Brawl... AN AUTOMATIC BAD GAME?

No.

The people who disliked brawl just look at the negatives and emphasize on it too much. Why can't they just look at the good things. Hell, Brawl has like 10x more good things than bad things. Well the only thing bad is the defensive nature and those 2 characters, MK and Ganondorf. Oh... And I forgot about the 1 Player modes BUT then again, Brawl is not about single player mode. Sure Sakurai spent so much space on SSE (Which wasn't so good) but THEN AGAIN THEN AGAIN, there are more good things that outweigh the bad. Although, some people play brawl for a different reason, mostly it's for fan service and competitive play so group mode and well of course, the roster is what usually comes first.

You might say Group mode is lackluster-- What the ****.... How is it lackluster. It's got your usual gameplay. Beat him up then knock him off stage. It has items, special mode, rotation and tourney. Just like in Melee (Although Melee never had rotation).

Regarding the roster..... Brawl has a better roster. Enough said. Don't even try excluding the clone problem because it's still a bad thing. It's even worse than semi clones. Brawl had 5 semi clones and Melee had like.... 6 CLONES and 1 semi clone. Regarding the fan service POV, Brawl's character additions were reasonable... Excluding ROB (Unless I'm missing something here). They were all great additions AND the roster was positively received. As for melee's, I can't tell about the majority's opinion. The only thing I know is that one of the people I know, Brosis, disliked the melee roster but does that matter (No offense Brosis ).

Overall, Brawl IS NOT a downgrade. It's just made some drastic changes which didn't do much bad. In fact, it brought up some new mechanics. Instead of it being a technical spam fest, it encouraged more patience, precision, mindgames and carefulness. You have to be more dependent on your skills. Not the character's techs or the universal techs.

I'm not saying melee is bad. It's actually a fun and awesome game. I just hate how the melee players look down at brawl.

-----------

Although I agree with Chu being close minded, what he said was right

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

While I personally consider it a downgrade, I don't like how some AT's were removed. But that's just me.

I do think it's a solid game on its own, and is still awesome in its own right.

Once again, Tripping is the only Multiplayer aspect that was bad. The rest worked fine.

The thing is, I can't see many positives IMO. Bigger Roster. More Courses. Stage Builder, Online.

My personal dislikes: Still too many clones(mostly the Final Smash clones bother me), Coin Launcher, difficult in getting Trophies in general, SSE was boring to me, Single Player Mode felt pretty dumbed down from Melee(which beautifully upgraded from SSB64), some blatant A.I. Cheating, and removal of the Red Shell.

So yeah, it felt worse to me, personally, but I can't even call it a bad game whatsoever. Admittably, I prefer playing Quest 64 over it, but different tastes, right?

Notably, SSB64 is my favorite, with Melee second and Brawl last. But damn, were all three games good.

 

[Berserker.]

Then again, it's not suppose to be a donwgrade. It's suppose to fully change the game not in terms of controls.

Melee felt completely different from Smash 64 moving away from combos and encouraging tech use

Brawl felt completely different from Smash Melee moving away from tech use and encouraging more mind games and slow paced gameplay.

------

But if you're more of the 64 style then fine. It doesn't make any sense that you hate this certain game when it has more good aspects than bad.

 

[Shorts]

BEFORE I RESPOND, I was talking Fox in Melee (I've heard some people say he's really overpowered, IDK) and of course Pichu.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You have to remember that it has more bad aspects for me. I'm not even a big technical fighter. I just prefer a few here and there. Honestly, the only one I miss is L-Cancel. I could care less about Wavedashing in general. Admittably, I prefer the single Air Dodge, due to two Air Dodges being really powerful defense-wise.(it doesn't help you don't free fall)

And all three have pretty good mind games. I think one Air Dodge could've done fine with the defensive gameplay. Even without the L-Cancel, it would've been fine. I just would love to see somebody justify the Tripping, though.(yes, I've been helped and hurt by it)

 

[Berserker.]

I'm fine with both air dodges.

@Shortie: He is overpowered if you know how to use him. He has an extremely steep learning curve.

Well, I forgot about the fillers such as coin launcher.... Ah ****. Everyone plays brawl for multiplayer. Sakurai swayed to the single player too much but it didn't have much effect on the multiplayer negatively or positively.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I kind of liked the freefall. It meant I had to think before using the Air Dodge. But eh.

Anyway, only character problems I even think exist are Ganondorf and MK. Dorf was nerfed beyond belief, and MK is way too powerful. As in broken. Being OP isn't a big deal. Some characters will always be better than others.

Right. I don't think the Coin Launcher was a bad idea, but it made getting Trophies difficult to get because of the Stickers. If you could only get Trophies in there, I'd be fine with it.

Also, be honest with me: Did you prefer a Smash Target Test for every character, or 5 total? Also, why the lack of Race to the Finish or any new mini-games in Classic? That irked me the most.

 

[Berserker.]

I guess I kind of overdid it. Lol.

I'm just annoyed as to why people dislike brawl so much.

 

[Shorts]

I definitely prefer Melee to Brawl, in ALMOST every aspect, that said I still enjoy Brawl.

ANYWAYS, I thought you were responding to me, but...you sort of didn't, just started off talking about the wrong Fox.

Hopefully, we see a FASTER Brawl. I think I like Brawl's airdodges more than Melee's. I also don't like how in Melee you you couldn't grab the ledge from behind (Right? I haven't played the game in so long). I just prefer Melee's gameplay FOR THE MOST PART.

I prefer the roster, the level's, and the items. (Not going to even TOUCH 1P modes)

THAT SAID, Brawl still is good, and I'm 100% sure the game is going to look more like Brawl than Melee, that's for sure. Did Sakurai say anything about making an engine from scratch or what?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They didn't feel it stood up to the originals. The multiplayer didn't suffer, but the single player heavily did.

Since not everyone has siblings or friends over, they gotta depend on either the Online(which was bad), or Single Player. This wasn't easy to deal with and is understandable to be annoyed by it.

 

[Berserker.]

Right. I don't think the Coin Launcher was a bad idea, but it made getting Trophies difficult to get because of the Stickers. If you could only get Trophies in there, I'd be fine with it.

Not for me

Also, be honest with me: Did you prefer a Smash Target Test for every character, or 5 total? Also, why the lack of Race to the Finish or any new mini-games in Classic? That irked me the most.

I had no reaction to the exclusion of race to finish and the lack of new mini games. The Smash Target though kinda irked me BUT those are seriously minor things to complain about.

Gameplay, roster, everything else was still good. It's only 1P mode, MK and Ganondorf that annoyed me. The fillers meant nothing to me since they're just fillers. Not a big deal.

They didn't feel it stood up to the originals. The multiplayer didn't suffer, but the single player heavily did.

Since not everyone has siblings or friends over, they gotta depend on either the Online(which was bad), or Single Player. This wasn't easy to deal with and is understandable to be annoyed by it.[/QUOTE]
................................................

STOP LOOKING AT THIS FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE! D:

Well then, I don't know what Sakurai thinks but he'd probably end up like this:

Some guy: Sakurai, the online and 1P modes are terrible.

Sakurai: People play for the group mode

Some guy: What if the family only has one child?

Sakurai: He has friends

Some guy: What if he's poor, has no car or is not allowed to go out or has no friends?

Sakurai: He can play with his family

Some guy: What if the family does not know how to play or is busy or is not intersted

Sakurai: Then he can play with our lulzy AIs

Some guy: But our AIs suck

Sakurai: ....................... Oh well

 

[Drclaw411]

So what'd I miss tonight? Seems mainly to be discussion on 2nd movesets and a casual melee vs brawl debate.

And am I the only one who thoroughly enjoyed SSE?

 

[Oasis_S]

Hopefully, we see a FASTER Brawl. I think I like Brawl's airdodges more than Melee's. I also don't like how in Melee you you couldn't grab the ledge from behind (Right? I haven't played the game in so long). I just prefer Melee's gameplay FOR THE MOST PART.

I remember seeing some Project M video on YouTube showing off how they had remade Melee's air dodge and the can't-ledge-grab-from-behind thing. The top comment was something like "Wait, why would you bring those back?" Lololol.

Memorycouldalsobeabitoffthough.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not for me

I wasn't impressed at all. Also, Stickers are beyond easy to get in gameplay as is. Trophies aren't.

I had no reaction to the exclusion of race to finish and the lack of new mini games. The Smash Target though kinda irked me BUT those are seriously minor things to complain about.

I don't consider going from 25 different Target Tests to 5 a minor issue. Also, removing all the mini-games really is a bigger hit than you're giving credit for.

Gameplay, roster, everything else was still good. It's only 1P mode, MK and Ganondorf that annoyed me. The fillers meant nothing to me since they're just fillers. Not a big deal.

Mini-Games are part of 1player mode. And the fillers add to the gameplay as a whole. Also, Ganondorf could practically be called filler at this point, as can the stickers. If it's a part of the game, it has some role.

@drclaw: Possibly. I know there's more.

 

[Berserker.]

To me

As long as you think it's a good game

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fair enough.

And YMMV on that. But then again, I'm weird.

 

[Berserker.]

I always wondered why Falcon punch is CF's neutral special.

I mean... It's so slow and rarely used. I LOVE the move especially how it's applied in machinimas. But... The question remains on why Sakurai made it that way

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Looking at it... what else would he have? A laser gun?(which is already used anyway with Fox, Falco, Wolf, and R.O.B.)

I mean, I could see it as Side B, but would Raptor Boost be better as Neutral B instead? When it pushes him heavily forward, it somewhat makes sense. Also, I think that might be why Falcon Punch stayed Neutral B. The memes.

 

[Berserker.]

Sakurai probably knows about it.

Seeing it hit a player in a tourney makes the crowd go "HOOOLY SHIIII"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Exactly. Well, what move ideas do you have for him then?

 

[Oasis_S]

Falcon is based on Japanese superheroes, and they typically (or perhaps stereotypically) have a signature move where they shout their name. Or something like that. (I think Kamen Rider has a RIDER KICK?) So that's why we have Falcon Punch. That's also why it is EXTREMELY FLASHY.

If that helps at all.

 

[Berserker.]

Just wondering. I'm fine with it

I forgot to reply on something

It depends on whenever or not you think the positives of the GameFAQs Smash community outweigh the negatives.

It doesn't.

Negative > Positive

 

[Shorts]

I'm assuming they brought back those mechanics because they want to make Project M...Melee...2.

Excited PUUUUUUNCH~ tehe!

 

[Berserker.]

Off topic: More news regarding this Sony Smash bros. arrives

Still hyped for Drake

On topic: I got nothing to say. Lol

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I haven't played a single game of any of those characters.

I always figured Crash and Spyro were Sony characters, they should be in the game

 

[Oasis_S]

They can be the retro characters.

 

[y.toonlink]

So he's really going through with that? Is it gonna be like a free DLC on PSN or something? Otherwise there's gonna be so many legal issues if he tries to sell it.

On Topic:
How do people feel about changing Kirby's Hammer since Dedede's already playable? The Hammer moves can be passed to Dedede while Kirby gets something else, like maybe Beam or Spear.
Kirby was lacking in projectiles (good ones if you count the shockwave from Final Cutter, and Star Spit is only usable in frays) so the Spear or Beam could work along with the Air Spit being added to inhale.

Sorry I'm really late on this:

I want the opposite. I mean, I love being both, but truth be told, I'm Shelda because I NEED to be at times. I switch to Sheik when my Zelda is getting owned. I want them both to be solid characters on their own, and simply have switching be an option.

One of the reasons I have problems with PEETEA.

I mean if Sheik's combo ability was amazing like in Melee I think she'd still be a solid character. Same goes for Zelda having better KOability along with better zoning like in Project M. What I meant tho was that you could use either one and still play well, but switching brings out their best potential, like using Assists in MvC.
That said, ZSS/Samus would be more along the lines of optional switching, and Pokemon Trainer with forced switching (which I have a better idea for than Brawl's Stamina)

 

[Shorts]

Here's my say on this Sony Bros.

A. It's probably fake.

B. If it's not, there is no way in BLOODY HELL a 20 character, SONY fueled game is going to touch a 40+ Nintendo character FILLED SSB4. This game is going to be big, but won't touch SSB4.



.....I saw Psycho's face.....

 

[Berserker.]

Kirby was lacking in projectiles (good ones if you count the shockwave from Final Cutter, and Star Spit is only usable in frays) so the Spear or Beam could work along with the Air Spit being added to inhale.

Nah. Kirby is an offensive combo type character. Projectiles won't do much to his gameplay. I'm fine with him and his hammer as long as I can do the melee air hammer in SSB 4.

 

[y.toonlink]

Projectiles are a good way to approach (which I think would do well with the Air Spit). The Hammer was a good KO attack, but that can be replaced by the Spear (since in Melee it had a weird range). His Upair in Melee was a good KO, and with some buffs it could be combo'd into by the Beam. Same goes for a buffed Dair.
I just feel that Kirby could use a more unique attack since Dedede basically fills in the Hammer role.

 

[Oasis_S]

Is there a reason the ...window for fast falling appears so late in Brawl? Feels weird.

I feel any form of MOVEMENT probably shouldn't have that kind of limit to it.

FLUIDITY.

Though I'm sleepy so any sort of CONS that would arise from that aren't coming to mind, lol.

 

[Berserker.]

Projectiles are a good way to approach (which I think would do well with the Air Spit). The Hammer was a good KO attack, but that can be replaced by the Spear (since in Melee it had a weird range). His Upair in Melee was a good KO, and with some buffs it could be combo'd into by the Beam. Same goes for a buffed Dair.
I just feel that Kirby could use a more unique attack since Dedede basically fills in the Hammer role.

I knew you would comment something like this.

Erm... I'd prefer Kirby with just the hammer. He doesn't need any sort of change but that's just me.

 

[y.toonlink]

It's cool, I was just asking how people felt about it anyway. "Like this", you mean the whole replacing concept?

@Oasis
I think the solution to any movement issue would be changing the physics back to Melee

 

[Conviction]

Kirby should shoot stars out of his mouth.

Effective Camping

 

[Oasis_S]

Am I the only one that thinks Melee feels too stiff.

 

[Conviction]

ON MORE SERIOUS NOTE:

I just had a pretty good idea for anti-airing. Sliding, haha

Running and then pressing down sends you into a sliding animation. Leaving your character in a low to ground state, maybe a good way to counter SH attacks. Add a sliding attack, and you have an effective way of doing low shield pokes.

The length of your slide would depend on character speed. After slide is over your go back to your standard crouch.

You cannot shield while sliding. You can cancel it with jumping though.

@Oasis: I think you are.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Am I the only one that thinks Melee feels too stiff.

Nope. I do too. But sometimes I forget on certain stages, like Poke Floats and N64 Dreamland.

On an unrelated note, what's the final boss in Kirby Returns to Dreamland? I want to see if I was right in predicting it.

 

[Oasis_S]

@Iblis: I LIKE IT.

 

[Conviction]

@Oasis: Yea man, it's so simple but yet so effective it makes me wonder how come it's not in a Smash game yet!

 

[Oasis_S]

Mario would need to get a new dash attack though.

Let's see... How about having more control over how far you want to roll? :V