New Smash Bros for WiiU

[51V3]

Being a Smash Bros. enthusiast ever since I was seven (SSB64), I've always had very great, imaginative ideas that coincided along with my best friends' ideas.

In SSB4, we've thorougly discussed (to great lengths) of the "Stage Builder" mode. It's a GREAT concept, don't get me wrong. Very grand ideal! Only problem is...it was limited. We think that it should've been in categories of the enormous array of Nintendo franchise games, such as "Mario" or "Metroid" or "The Legend of Zelda" (E.g. Under the category "Mario", a Brick-block would be used for the ground instead of those 3 default blocks used in Brawl). If any of you have ever used Flash, you'd understand what I'm about to say; the categories that would be in use would be considered as a "Sprite Sheet". Simply put, it would have "ripped" sprites that you could pick-and-place on the map, such as:

-Brick-block (Mario)
-Chozo statues (Metroid)
-Sky City parts (The Legend of Zelda; sub-category: Twilight Princess)

Yes, it may seem VERY complicated, but that would be the full unlock-age of the Stage Builder potential that me and my friend see.

Another simple idea; no 3DS version. We believe that because it's a Hand-held, it wouldn't be able to hold much memory. NO, I'm NOT hating on it. I do believe it's a great idea to play "on the go", but at the same time, I can't help but wonder of how much memory it'll have compared to the ported version of Wii U.

Here's a comparison that I just thought of:
3DS = 25 Characters (Not REAL number, just going with it)
Wii U = 55 Characers (MUCH more memory, thus allowing it to hold more than twice the 3DS's amount).

I know I'll probably get a lot of hate/flammed for this, but I really hope not. This is a thread meant to discuss such theories/ideals, amirite? And I'm not trying to piss anyone off; I apologize in advance if I do such a thing. I feel that it's safe, however, to wish for bigger and better things. I eagerly await all responses.

EDIT: Along with the Stage Builder ^ discussion above, I'd like to add a few more things. I don't want to double-post, so that's why I've edited this.

1) Another reason of "limited", despite the obvious lack of building parts, is how MANY you can place. You can place (I'm guess-timating, so don't hate me please) about, say, half the screen in blocks and not be able to place anymore. Shouldn't we be able to add as much as we want, WITHOUT limitation? o.O

2) I've had a SMASHING (pun) idea just a few minutes ago while on the phone with my friend! Instead of just working with the one layer (the one the fighters all fight on), we should be able manipulate the one in the background as well (E.g. adding hills and pipes, clouds with animations in the backgrounds).

3) Instead of the pre-set 3 backgrounds, I'd also like to use the backgrounds from the *current* stages in-game. Like, on Brawl, for example: To rip the background image (animation and all) of Smashville, and to be able to use it in Stage Builder. Just an idea.

 

[SmashChu]

Believe me, I could've made things more complex, but I tried to keep things simple. What I wanted to do was to have as low of an execution barrier as possible while increasing the number of options available.

No, what you wanted is for Smash to be like Street Fighter. Which is what you did. heck, you have blocking AND shielding. They are the same thing, except blocking can be hit low or high like other fighting games. From the comments here, no one likes it. Pretty clearly because it's just a bad idea.

Kuma, you keep telling people to stop having a closed mind, but you are far worse. Everything you say is in the context of Street Fighter. Think about it: when have you made a suggestion for something that wasn't based on another fighting game. heck, when fighting game X does something, you come and say how Smash should do the same thing. There is absolutely no originality with you.

You can see that Smash players don't want stuff from fighting games.

 

[Oasis_S]

@51V3: Sm4sh 3DS isn't a port. The memory limitations wouldn't be too much of an issue since they'll be creating everything within the limitations. The cart can hold 8GB of memory anyway, which is the same as a dual-layered Wii disc, so that's plenty of space for 55 characters.

AND, the Wii U and 3DS versions are already stated to be different. 3DS will have more of a single-player focus, while Wii U will have a multi-player focus. They'll also have some inter-connectivity features, which I would imagine at least, would imply they would have the same characters.

NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE. JUST LETTING YOU KNOW.

 

[51V3]

Sm4sh 3DS isn't a port.

My bad bro ^-^;.
I apologize. Still, I really don't think that a hand-held is a great idea. I don't think it'd be able to have ALL the same stuff as the Wii U version would, because...well...it's a hand-held! But that's just me though. And, don't get me wrong, I'd play it, but I'd rather have a console version. I think they're just making two diff. versions with different features on each to get more marketing done. Good idea, but I think I'll stick to the Wii U (NOT hating).

And @SmashChu: I concur. Blocking IS the same thing as shielding imo, so why add it? What button would it map too? And I think that shielding is just easier and would be less Street Fighter-ish. I don't want THAT type of game. I LOVE the Smash series.

EDIT: 8GB of cart memory?! Oh snaps! :O
I did NOT realize that -facepalms-. I'm so sorry, haha. Gosh I must sound like a douchebag . That's a LOT of memory for a hand-held. So you're right, then. It WOULD be able to hold anything because they're going to make it within it's limitations. I still wouldn't get it, however. I'm not really a hand-held person. I'd ONLY get it if I had the extra $$$ to spend, and if I wanted to play on the go (which is a HUGE factor of me getting it).

 

[SmashChu]

And @SmashChu: I concur. Blocking IS the same thing as shielding imo, so why add it? What button would it map too? And I think that shielding is just easier and would be less Street Fighter-ish. I don't want THAT type of game. I LOVE the Smash series.

You and a lot of people. That's why the series is so successful.

EDIT: Oh, and on fighting systems: If you want inspiration for Smash, just use the Kirby games. The input system and fighting to some degree takes from those games.

 

[51V3]

You and a lot of people. That's why the series is so successful.

Isn't SF a 2P fighting game only? One of the things that makes Smash Bros. an AMAZING game is the fact that you can fight crazy, 4P matches! Hammers, Assist Trophies, AND Final Smashes? I'd rather play that than play a repetitive, 2P -ONLY- fighting game.

I mean, it's not like everyone wants to play Smash Bros and not SF...oh wait. -sarcasm-

EDIT: Smash was made by Sakurai, same guy who made the Kirby franchise(s). Of course it'd be the same system .

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Er, that was 51V3 saying that, SmashChu. Also, what you said.

Smash is NOTHING like Street Fighter, and all of your suggestions are trying to make it more like that, Kuma. There's nothing wrong with changing some parts of the game. I think 3 seperate Normal Movesets would make an awesome and diverse metagame while still keeping the gameplay just as simple. It'd take a lot of work and memory to make more, but it could be great.

It's practically like any character x 3. Or heck, two seperate normal movesets would do great. Just use X OR Y for your Jump. Having repeated buttons aren't a bad thing. It means that it's easier to transfer over to another controller type. Also, the 3DS doesn't even HAVE a Z Button. There's no way for your idea to work there. Or even mine(unless it was two movesets). In fact, I don't think a second moveset would work outside of the Wii U version.

^ Actually, some of us like it 1 on 1. It can be any of those combinations, which is what makes Smash one of the MOST unique fighters in video game history. Most are stuck as being only really good for competitive play due to being made based upon that gameplay. Smash is made for any kind of play you wish.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Er, that was 51V3 saying that, SmashChu. Also, what you said.

Smash is NOTHING like Street Fighter, and all of your suggestions are trying to make it more like that, Kuma. There's nothing wrong with changing some parts of the game. I think 3 seperate Normal Movesets would make an awesome and diverse metagame while still keeping the gameplay just as simple. It'd take a lot of work and memory to make more, but it could be great.

It's practically like any character x 3. Or heck, two seperate normal movesets would do great. Just use X OR Y for your Jump. Having repeated buttons aren't a bad thing. It means that it's easier to transfer over to another controller type. Also, the 3DS doesn't even HAVE a Z Button. There's no way for your idea to work there. Or even mine(unless it was two movesets). In fact, I don't think a second moveset would work outside of the Wii U version.

^ Actually, some of us like it 1 on 1. It can be any of those combinations, which is what makes Smash one of the MOST unique fighters in video game history. Most are stuck as being only really good for competitive play due to being made based upon that gameplay. Smash is made for any kind of play you wish.

I also wonder why Kuma made grab strictly B+L. I never used R+A, so that would be wonky and IMO impractical. One easy-to-reach grab button is fine. One attack button is fine. One special button is fine. And, IMO, one moveset is fine. Even two seems a bit much for me. How would it pan out on one controller?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I also wonder why Kuma made grab strictly B+L. I never used R+A, so that would be wonky and IMO impractical. One easy-to-reach grab button is fine. One attack button is fine. One special button is fine. And, IMO, one moveset is fine. Even two seems a bit much for me. How would it pan out on one controller?

The same as using A, except using X or Y for a completely different moveset just like your A moves. It'd be no different from that.

The 3DS lacks buttons for this to work, though.

And the only time it's worth using R+A(or L+A) is when you shield and try to grab them quicker. Extra options are fine. But there's no reason to make the grab super complicated.

 

[SmashChu]

Er, that was 51V3 saying that, SmashChu. Also, what you said.

Odd, not sure why it did that.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The same as using A, except using X or Y for a completely different moveset just like your A moves. It'd be no different from that.

The 3DS lacks buttons for this to work, though.

And the only time it's worth using R+A(or L+A) is when you shield and try to grab them quicker. Extra options are fine. But there's no reason to make the grab super complicated.

Okay. I see where you're getting at.
But I think X and Y should just be jump buttons.

Although, I did think of a way for two movesets to work on the 3DS. One moveset with the control pad, and another with the control stick.
It probably won't happen either way, though.

Now that I think about it, doesn't the WiiU controller have two control sticks?

 

[Aurane]

Sorry homie there is no such thing as lagless matches in brawl for some reason.

I remember reading there is always a 1 frame button delay or frame freeze in an ideal match. The wifi is just bad in brawl.

Never use it too seriously. It's more I'll try out these new options and limiters I thought of and hopefully I'll run into an obscure mu I don't know.

Smashfests, Money Matches, and Tournaments will always make you better and faster than wifi ever will.

/real talk

Uhh, yeah there is. man. Play on Wi-Fi more, and you can get perfect matches -_-' But obviously, everyone thinks gas money is growing on peach trees for SSBB fights. SO sorry for not knowing T_T

Also, to everyone. Zoroark has two votes, Meloetta has one, and Genesect has one on my poll. Not looking good, but let's w8 and see what happens.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@SmashChu: Who knows? Then again, Kuma was heavily talked about. Glitch or a sign?

@Poppy: How would you taunt without the D-Pad, though?

Speaking of 3DS Controls...

A/B: Same as normal

D-Pad: Taunts like in Brawl, perhaps 4. But 3 works as well.

Control Stick: Movement.

R: Grab

L: Shield

X/Y: Jump

Going with that, X or Y could be a secondary moveset.

And I think the Tablet does. I know the Classic Controller does.

 

[Oasis_S]

Why are we going on about second movesets again?

 

[51V3]

What's the point of mapping a pre-set second/third moveset when people can make their own? Honestly, all I took off of my controller was the Jump Tap. I prefer to jump with X or Y, NOT the control stick >.>.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mixing and matching movesets can lead to severe unbalanced ones. Making two specific movesets per character can be balanced by the programmers. It also means players can have the same characters that play differently, changing the metagame severely. It works fine for both casual and competitive players. Nobody loses in this case.

Also, this is all about speculation, and it's something that can be realistically done without changing the core gameplay at all.

 

[Oasis_S]

Oh, so you're going on about character customization. Pretty sure people are twisting that up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No. I'm not. I'm talking about two pre-programmed normal movesets(but not specials) that are done by the main programmers. Completely different story.

Please read the full thing. We don't set up the moves, they're done for us.

 

[Oasis_S]

So one moveset would be made by Sakurai, and the other would be made by Rare?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

*facepalms* Funny. They'd be made by the programmers. Two alternate movesets that could fit in stuff they couldn't. It could be one based upon a combination of the earlier games, while the other would be the moveset.

So SSB1-3's moveset combined, and SSB4's moveset.

Since no specials were completely gotten rid of, they'd all exists without any problems.

Alternatively, a second set of Special Moves(easier to program, but could be interesting).

 

[51V3]

Another thing I forgot to mention, what's up the EXP points that the Sm4sh bros characters can get while playing?

Are they seriously trying to turn this game series into an RPG? That could lead to SEVERE un-balanced characters...(e.g. Ganondorf, ATK = 999, DEF = 999, SPD = 999). I REALLY doubt it'll work like that, but still...it doesn't hurt to look at the issue from all sides here. And please don't say "That's impossible because they won't let anyone get to XXX amount of ATK/DEF/SPD!!!"; because none of us honestly know what the heck is going on here. They could take the EXP thing out entirely (which, imo, is probably for the best u.u).

EDIT: Rare was bought out by Microsoft, NOT Nintendo. There hasn't been any Rare characters to this point in time. How could Rare even program for Nintendo, if it isn't part of the company? o.o

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Where did you read this? Could you please cite this whole thing, 51V3.

And that would most likely be for a customized character anyway. Also, it's Ganondorf. Why shouldn't his ATK/DEF be off the charts?(it kind of already is in Brawl, but his Speed is beyond crap)

 

[51V3]

So one moveset would be made by Sakurai, and the other would be made by Rare?

That's from my EDIT response in my last post. If you're talking about the EXP thing, I honestly have no idea where I read that at. I think it was on a random site; not too sure. It didn't really make any sense to me, that's why I asked. And yes, Ganon does have REALLY ****ty speed, sadly. But all things cannot come without equivalent exchange.

 

[Oasis_S]

EDIT: Rare was bought out by Microsoft, NOT Nintendo. There hasn't been any Rare characters to this point in time. How could Rare even program for Nintendo, if it isn't part of the company? o.o

Why are you asking me when you could DO SOME RESEARCH for yourself.

@HyperFalcon: I'm kind of lost on what the point of doing that would be? Unless you just wanted to toss out wild ideas.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It was based upon Kuma's whole making more attack buttons(but with useless directions). Read some pages back.

Instead of having no bair with one button, having two movesets overall using A and X as seperate ones would give us two characters in one, but without changing how the actual core game is played. We still use the same basic moves overall.

@51V3: It's probably just speculation, as no real information has been given out besides what systems the game will be on and that Sakurai WON'T be doing the balance.

 

[51V3]

Why are you asking me when you could DO SOME RESEARCH for yourself.

@HyperFalcon: I'm kind of lost on what the point of doing that would be? Unless you just wanted to toss out wild ideas.

I wasn't asking anything but a redundant question. Rare can NOT obviously program for SSB4, because it ISN'T part of Nintendo. You posted that earlier. Here, let me re-post it for you:

So one moveset would be made by Sakurai, and the other would be made by Rare?

So please, tell me again...How could Rare POSSIBLY write a program scheme for the moveset?

@HyperFalcon: Here's the link: Experience Points???

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@51V3: He could mean completely custom characters like Miis. It wasn't specified what he means exactly. So I wouldn't say it's experience points as much as selecting moves and adding them to a character. It's all a Wild Mass Guessing in this case.

 

[Conviction]

I'm sorry Kuma, but as much as I love SF and other FG and how competitive I am.

I skipped your post because it was to SFish and turned off any sense of Smash in it to me.

 

[Oasis_S]

It was based upon Kuma's whole making more attack buttons(but with useless directions). Read some pages back.

Instead of having no bair with one button, having two movesets overall using A and X as seperate ones would give us two characters in one, but without changing how the actual core game is played. We still use the same basic moves overall.

OKAY. Everything makes sense now. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the earlier MECHANICS discussion since those are often silly and there's no way we could predict something like that. Whoops.

Two movesets is still a silly idea though.


I just hope it plays even smoother and more fluid than Brawl. I suppose that's a safe thing to ask for since progression in that aspect has been made with each successive INSTALLMENT.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

OKAY. Everything makes sense now. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the earlier MECHANICS discussion since those are often silly and there's no way we could predict something like that. Whoops.

Two movesets is still a silly idea though.

True. But I don't think it's a silly idea. Realistic? Nah. Cool idea, imo, but would be hard to implement overall.(due to some characters just having a lack of moves. Falcon, the Space Furries, etc.)

I just hope it plays even smoother and more fluid than Brawl. I suppose that's a safe thing to ask for since progression in that aspect has been made with each successive INSTALLMENT.

No question about that. Game was too slow and campy. And balance was bleh. I mean, the other two games weren't perfect, but they also had better stages anyway. Not so heavily gimmicked where the stage killed you most of the time. I think SSB64 was a good moderate speed. It seemed faster than Brawl, but not a high strung as Melee.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm sorry Kuma, but as much as I love SF and other FG and how competitive I am.

I skipped your post because it was to SFish and turned off any sense of Smash in it to me.

Too SF-ish? It's more akin to Marvel or Guilty Gear than Street Fighter.

 

[Shorts]

I feel like Brawl wasn't really a sequel to Melee, but an entirely new Smash. Like Melee was the successor to 64, and SSB4 could be the successor to Brawl. It would take what Brawl implemented, and make it better. (Hopefully more competitive)

I feel like in terms of peaking, Brawl sort of didn't, OR barely topped Melee... I just want SSB4 to beat Brawl. I don't think we will ever see a Smash like Melee again. HOPEFULLY, we don't see another game quite like Brawl either. Something totally new would be nice.

 

[Big-Cat]

Iblis, what would you change from my list to make it less "SF-ish" (some of this stuff isn't even in SF) to something different.

SmashChu, I don't know about you, but Smash needs to get out of Kirby's shadow and establish its identity better. To be honest, you could at the very least make it NOT look like a Kirby game.

 

[Berserker.]

Purpose: To update the Smash series based off of the current trend of fighting games while maintaining its unique appeal. The reason to update is to allow more diversity in playstyles while keeping the game rooted in its core design.

[COLLAPSE="Controls"]The control scheme has changed drastically from past titles to allow more character diversity and to increase the pace of the game. The changes will be presented in more step, but here is an overview.
Control Stick – Move
A, X, and Y – The three attack buttons
B – The special button
L – Block
R – Shield
Z – Jump
Grab is now strictly B+L. Tether grabs are done with Forward B+L.
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Offense"]To update the Smash series, numerous changes were made to system to allow more offense in the game and to speed up matches to the point where 3 stock matches could take at max around 4 minutes.

The New Attack Buttons: Instead of having a single button for specials, the attacks have been spread to three buttons. For each button, is the following template for attack inputs:
Neutral, forward, down, up, NAir, and FAir. There is a downforward input for Y.
Each of these buttons correspond to strength with A, X, and Y being Light, Medium, and Heavy respectively. The purpose of this was to introduce chains to the game giving us true combos instead of constant DI reads. A sample input for a chain combo might be 5A> 6A > 5B > 8C for a launcher combo. Every character has trees to their chains so it’s your job to find what the trees are. Now onto DI.

DI, in my opinion, has been made more complicated than it needs to be. As such, I’m suggesting that strictly Smash DI remains so as to preserve Smash’s original mixup game. One major change though is that not every move will have DI properties. What moves do and don’t vary from character. A character with a strong mixup game may have numerous DI moves, but those with weak ones will have a small pool of mixup options. Again, this is to increase character diversity.

The next part on offense is the changes to specials. Specials are still done like they have been in the past with a new change. There are four versions of every special now. These correspond to Light, Medium, Heavy, and Smash Specials. The inputs are B, A+B, X+B, and Y+B. Each one will give you a different version of a special. However, this can be changed to where you have four separate specials on that directional input. For example, Fox could have Laser, Downward Laser, Sensor Bomb, and Gatling Gun respectively. To use your Y+B though, comes at a cost which is the next topic: The Smash Meter.

The Smash Meter, in simplest terms, is a super meter. The meter is broken into four parts. To use Smash Specials, you must use 25 Smash Points/one of your four parts to use it. There are some additional uses for the meter. You can use two bars to do a Quick Recovery. This technique stops whatever move you’re doing. This is used for extending combos and to get you out of a nasty situation if an unsafe move is blocked. For two bars as well, you can use your Super Smash attack which is essentially a much more balanced Final Smash. Mario’s would be a tamed version of his Mario Finale. The key thing about Super Smashes is that they can be blocked. They are not the broken supers in Brawl. The input for Super Smash attacks is QCF+B, assuming you’re facing the right.

At full meter, you have access to the Final Smash. These aren’t necessarily the moves from Brawl, but some will be for certain characters like Capt. Falcon’s Final Smash. These moves can only be activated when the opponent has taken a certain amount of damage and is on their last stock. These moves are instant kill moves and are more for flash than for practical use, but they are still viable options, but the usage of meter throughout matches makes them fairly unlikely to be seen at high level play. The input for Final Smashes is QCF+B, assuming you’re facing the right.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Defense"]
A common problem with Smash is that defensive options are either flat out dumb (Brawl) or are not adequate (previous Smash games). The following will attempt to address these issues.

Blocking has been, in the past, limited to a rather limited shield which breaks after a certain period of time. This would mean that someone with a good pressure string could use it over and over until the person got a shield break. So, to address this better, traditional blocking is implemented. Done by pressing the L button, you block all attacks facing you except for low attacks. To block those, hold down and block. Be warned that all aerials and select ground attacks require you to block high. The general rule is to block low while reacting to block high when needed.

Note that I said it blocks attacks facing you. This means that your back is defenseless. This introduces crossups, ambiguous or not, to the game which is another aspect of the mixup game. To turn around, just turn the stick in the intended direction. Another tip is to press the block button and put the stick in the direction you intend to block.

One thing about blocking is that you are subject to chip damage meaning you’ll take a small fraction of all damage you’d get otherwise. Shielding doesn’t have this issue.
Shielding no longer shrinks, but rather surrounds you constantly. The big change is that the shield simply gets weaker now instead of shrinking. Going in and out of shielding has been made instantaneous and every character can now jump out of shielding.

While defense in terms of attacks as been addressed, we haven’t gotten to grabs. The Grab Break, commonly knowing as teching, is a move done when two people grab at the same time or within a close span of each other. When it happens, both players bounce away from each other in stalemate. It’s a basic thing that I’m surprised has not been implemented. This also gives a reason to implement command grabs as those moves cannot be countered by teching.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Movement"]We all know Brawl is floaty and slow, and not all that fun compared to previous games. This tries to address this while adding in new mechanics and giving new flavor to old mechanics.

First up is the return of the infamous wavedash. Now, the input has been simplified. Now, by doing, Z+QCF or Z+QCB (note, this means you must press Z and then quickly do the motion), you can wavedash in either direction. This is fairly similar to the input for wavedashing in Tekken. I’d suggest something a little easier, but the game’s design doesn’t allow it.

Dash dancing returns as there is no pause while turning around. There is also no pause on stopping from running.

Momentum is now conserved just like in Melee. To add to this, you can now turn around in the air. This is done by doing a quick tap downward to the direction you want to face.

Next up is Air Dashing. This is pretty basic technique, but also very useful for characters like Jigglypuff. The input for this is to do 66 or 44 while in the air. It’s important to note that this will take away one of your jump stocks. This allows for better air mobility and some neat stuff I’m about to go into.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Canceling"]The big thing that will increase the pace of Smash is assorted cancels. These will take you out of the recovery of attacks to go into your next action.

Special canceling is the original canceling, discovered originally as a glitch in Street Fighter II. This is done by doing the input of the intended special just as you are about to land an attack with a normal. Some specials can cancel into other specials such as Marth’s Sword Dance. Note that not all special moves can be canceled into and not all normals can be canceled out of.

Jump Canceling – Like special canceling, except you cancel into a jump, either short or normal. One nasty example is to hit with Ness’ bat, short hop cancel, go immediately into Air Dash, and do what would be his FAir in current games. Obviously, this can help the ground game without hurting the aerial game.

Super Canceling – Like special cancelling but into supers. This can also be applied to Final Smashes.

Air Dash Canceling – Cancel from aerials into air dashes to follow up for more attacks. As I mentioned, this gets nasty with Jigglypuff and other multi-jump characters.

Dash Canceling - This is rather different from the other cancels. This requires you to run and then attack. What happens is that the momentum from the run is conserved into the movements of some of your attacks. This makes certain combos possible as a result.[/COLLAPSE]

And for those with similar heights. Damn, I've got at least 40-60 pounds on you guys. Muscle really does add to your weight.

3 attack buttons?

I think the normal control scheme would be fine. It seems to.... un-smash.

To make everyone happy:

(Wii U layout)

A - Attack
B - Special
X - Jump
Y - Smash meter use
R pad - Smash
D -pad - Taunt
R - Grab
L - Grab
RZ - Shield
LZ - Block

Spoiler

Defend - Command : RZ button (Requires 0 bars)

Defending is different from shield. Defending is using the character's bare arms to block the attack. Doing this will decrease 1/8 of the damage (If there's a decimal, round off to the nearest ones). It's lightning quick and it's extremely convinient since it doesn't have a limit. You can cancel rolling or dodging animations into defend. You can also change the direction of defending. Left and right to switch facing, Down to defend lower and Up to defend higher. Low attacks can break through high defends and high attacks can break through low defends. You can also defend in the air but you can't change your direction.

Smash meter : Smash meter has a lot of purposes. It contains 3 bars. At the start of a match, you start with 0 bars. You can increase it by damaging the enemy or KOing one. Increasing can also vary depending on the damage input and KOing the enemy increases 1 1/2 bar in your smash meter.

-------------------------------------------

Combo follow up - Command : X button (Requires 1/2 bar)

The combo button is used to extend your combos. After doing any attack, click X to use another sort of unfound combo to deal more damage. It can't be done in the air.

Air follow up - Command : X during hit that knocks upwards (Requires 1/2 bar)

Click X on hit. You will quickly jump towards the enemy and do a 4 hit combo. You can end it sideways, upwards or downwards by flicking the smash stick. You can also interrupt the combo with an aerial attack by inputting up,down, left or right + attack.

Shield push - Command : While shielding + (X+Forward) (Requires 1/2 bar

Shield pushing causes a small shockwave to appear in front of your character. The shockwave pushes the enemy away. Shield pushing though shortens your current shield size.

Smash special - Command : (X + B) + Any direction (Requires 1 bar)

Once you do this, you will execute an upgraded version of the normal special attack.

Auto - cancel - Comand : X+LZ or LB (Requires 1 bar)

Once you do this, the move you were executing will be cancelled.

Stun - Command : Tilt at any direction + (X+A)(Requires 2 bars)

The following TILT attack will cause a huge hit stun to the enemy.

Quick dash - Command: X + L analog at any direction (Requires 2 bars)

The character will quickly dash forward (2 stage builder blocks) while being invulnerable to any attack. You can cancel the quick dash with any attack. You cannot do this in the air.

Additional jump - Command: X + Y (Requires 2 bars)

The character will jump..... Even after a recovery, 2 jumps, 5 mid air jumps... He'll still jump upwards.

Smash Overdrive - Command A+B+X+Y (Requires 3 bars)

The character's smash meter becomes gold. This means that you have unlimited bars. This effect lasts for 10 seconds. After 10 seconds, you can't use any attack that requires the smash meter for 10 seconds.[/COLOR]

Might be a little or too much SFxT in it. Lol.

Uhh, yeah there is. man. Play on Wi-Fi more, and you can get perfect matches -_-' But obviously, everyone thinks gas money is growing on peach trees for SSBB fights. SO sorry for not knowing T_T

Also, to everyone. Zoroark has two votes, Meloetta has one, and Genesect has one on my poll. Not looking good, but let's w8 and see what happens.

No. There never was a perfect match.... FOR ME.

@Kuma: Kirby's shadow? Smash is known for being a unique fighter. It's kind of disturbing to just make it like Guilty Gear or Marvel.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The game would have to be adjusted so that it's friendly with the Classic Controller AND the Wii U controller. My thoughts...

Key: CC / Wii U

a / A: Jump
b / B: Attack
y / Y: Special
x / X: Shield
Control Pad <> / Control Pad <>: Move (tap twice to dash)
Control Pad /\ / Control Pad /\: Tap twice to jump (can be disabled)
Control Pad \/ / Control Pad \/: Crouch
Left Control Stick <> / Left Circle Pad <>: Move (tap to dash)
Left Control Stick /\ / Left Circle Pad /\: Tap to jump (can be disabled)
Left Control Stick \/ / Left Circle Pad \/: Crouch
Right Control Stick <> / Right Circle Pad <>: Smash Attack
L / L: Shield
R / R: Grab
ZL / ZL: Taunt
ZR / ZR: Final Smash
+ / +: Pause
- / -: While the game is paused, press to quit.
Home / Home: Home Menu

Three taunts would still be utilized...

/\ taunt: ZL
<> taunt: Control Pad <> + ZL
\/ taunt: Control Pad \/ + ZL

The Wii U controller's touch screen won't be utilized.

After seeing berserker01's Wii U controller layout, I just had to quote my past post. I doubt that people want to browse through thousands of pages, just to see it.

The touch screen part was before my stage ideas.

 

[Big-Cat]

My concern with the current control scheme is that it can easily be where the game is perceived as mashy if you include chains, and I don't know if I'd want that. However, Lucario in Project M has shown it to be possible. I wonder though if downforward and upforward Tilt and Smash should be added. Some characters can already do that IIRC. I guess perhaps a good compromise might be to just add ONE attack button with the layout like this:

5A, 6A, 2A, and 8A are you AAA and tilts. j.A, j.6A, and j.2A are the NAir, FAir, and DAir.
The X normals are the Smash attacks and a new ground normal on 5X. j.X, j.6X, and j.2X are BAir, UAir, and a new aerial. At least by doing this, you get rid of that minor execution barrier some people have when first trying to do Smash attacks (we've all been there).

See, only two normals added. One of the main reasons I wanted at least two normals was so we could have various specials. Some characters need it (Link, Samus, Fox possibly) more than others (Ice Climbers, Mario) to give them more tools. Fox could have Laser, Downward Laser, and Sensory Bomb on the neutral special input with, IDK, grenade on his Super Special input.

On your stuff, Berserker, I feel a lot of it is unnecessary. With the chain system, the followups are redundant. Stun can easily be turned into a counter property. Make counter attacks have more power and hitstun. The quick dash should just be a wavedash. The invincibility is too good. And for Pandora Smash Overdrive, I think it's simply OP. Going by your mechanics, meter builds up quick and that's just degenerating the game into getting to Smash Overdrive.

I do appreciate that you're trying to come up with something instead of saying to just keep things the same.

On the Kirby thing, I'm talking about the aesthetics and some of the core design. One thing I didn't like about Brawl was that it didn't try to expand on the capabilities of the "Kirby Design" like how you see the Project M developers have been doing. I feel by "trying to keep it like Kirby" may hurt the series in the long run. Now, I'm not saying that it needs to "keep it like Marvel", but it needs to find its own place. Borrowing from various sources to establish itself.

 

[Berserker.]

After seeing berserker01's Wii U controller layout, I just had to quote my past post. I doubt that people want to browse through thousands of pages, just to see it.

The touch screen part was before my stage ideas.

What's the use of 2 options for movement

My concern with the current control scheme is that it can easily be where the game is perceived as mashy if you include chains, and I don't know if I'd want that. However, Lucario in Project M has shown it to be possible. I wonder though if downforward and upforward Tilt and Smash should be added. Some characters can already do that IIRC. I guess perhaps a good compromise might be to just add ONE attack button with the layout like this:

5A, 6A, 2A, and 8A are you AAA and tilts. j.A, j.6A, and j.2A are the NAir, FAir, and DAir.
The X normals are the Smash attacks and a new ground normal on 5X. j.X, j.6X, and j.2X are BAir, UAir, and a new aerial. At least by doing this, you get rid of that minor execution barrier some people have when first trying to do Smash attacks (we've all been there).

What matters is that people here do not want change in controls but they want change in gameplay. Change in physics and movesets and maybe some new ideas.

See, only two normals added. One of the main reasons I wanted at least two normals was so we could have various specials. Some characters need it (Link, Samus, Fox possibly) more than others (Ice Climbers, Mario) to give them more tools. Fox could have Laser, Downward Laser, and Sensory Bomb on the neutral special input with, IDK, grenade on his Super Special input.

There's always another way other than completely changing the controls.

I'll fully revamp my change list later.

On your stuff, Berserker, I feel a lot of it is unnecessary. With the chain system, the followups are redundant. Stun can easily be turned into a counter property. Make counter attacks have more power and hitstun. The quick dash should just be a wavedash. The invincibility is too good. And for Pandora Smash Overdrive, I think it's simply OP. Going by your mechanics, meter builds up quick and that's just degenerating the game into getting to Smash Overdrive.

I do appreciate that you're trying to come up with something instead of saying to just keep things the same.

Wtf... I recall removing that smash overdrive.... O_O

Repete-- Oh...

I don't like the idea of wavedash in smash.

erp. I guess most of the upgrades seem to be OP and redundant

On the Kirby thing, I'm talking about the aesthetics and some of the core design. One thing I didn't like about Brawl was that it didn't try to expand on the capabilities of the "Kirby Design" like how you see the Project M developers have been doing. I feel by "trying to keep it like Kirby" may hurt the series in the long run. Now, I'm not saying that it needs to "keep it like Marvel", but it needs to find its own place. Borrowing from various sources to establish itself.

It didn't hurt the series. The Kirby design did nothing. Smash then again is already unique itself. I know your trying to add more diversity but there are other alternatives.

The only complaint I heard with Melee and Brawl are the physics. Some say it's too fast, slow, etc.

 

[Oasis_S]

With three best-selling games, I think it's pretty well established.

Didn't Brawl add a lot of SUBTLE things that improved upon Melee? I mean, maybe it flubbed up with the NUMBERS (Fall speed variables, ending lag, blah blah, etc.), but aren't there a lot of things in Brawl that you can't make a good Smash without? Aren't the SUBTLE ADDITIONS going to be the ones to really MAKE the game?


Shelda... Is kind of fun. BD

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Other than the characters... and maybe a few courses, and a bigger story mode, not seeing much. Maybe the Final Smash was kind of interesting. I honestly don't see too many real improvements upon the game.

Still a solid game regardless, and I love the style throughout all three. Most of my complaints are about how meh I found Single Player, and the really crappy online.

 

[Conviction]

Damn it Beserker. I wanted to make a layout.

Also sorry Kuma the three button scheme reminded me of TvC is what I meant to say.

Anyways any former complaint is gone with Beserker's layout.