New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Dark Paladin X]

I don't know who Nippon Ichi is >_>.

They're the guys who made Phantom Brave and Disgaea series. The American division also had start licensing anime (but that's a whole different story there).

 

[Gamingboy]

Pacman (who, I believe, I am the only significant booster of) is more likely than Disgaea or Phantom Brave.

And probably more likely than Zero too. As I said before: Zero, X, Legends/64, Battle Net, etc. can all be alternate costumes. But the original Blue Bomber is not only the most iconic of them but also the one most identified with the classical Nintendo systems.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't see the pattern. The "+" and "-" destroys the pattern and as such, I doubt this means anything. Unlike the amount of hortizontal rows going up by one per game.

Huh? How can you not see a pattern?

SSB64 - 12 slots
12 x 1 = 12

Melee - 25 slots
12 x 2 = 24
24 + 1 = 25

Brawl - 35 slots
12 x 3 = 36
36 - 1 = 35

SSB4 - possible 47 to 49 slots
12 x 4 = 48
48 + 1 = 49 OR 48 - 1 = 47

In each game, you see how the number of slots increase by at least 12 and then adding one more slot or taking out one slot or none at all. Then again, Berserker reminded me how Sakurai never follows any patterns we notice.

 

[Deleted member]

@Arcadenik: It's the symbols that destroys the pattern. The slots do not go up by 12 with the exception of the original. Melee added thirteen and Brawl added ten. We could very well be seeing just nine new slots in SSB4. Therefore, no consistency.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I only expect Mega Man classic


I don't know about Falcon. He probably got his moveset from the anime. Most notably:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

@About MvC: Yeah. I guess that's what made it possible for 50 characters up. The sprites...

I'm off for today. Tomorrow, I'll be early here.

The anime came out after the game.


Since the neither plus or minus is constant it's not a real pattern. But I get your point

Ninjad

 

[Cheezball]

It could be just that there is no pattern. Why in the world would developers need a pattern for the amount of characters? If they're a tad bit OCD I could see them trying to stick to one, but I doubt they are.

 

[Arcadenik]

@Arcadenik: It's the symbols that destroys the pattern. The slots do not go up by 12 with the exception of the original. Melee added thirteen and Brawl added ten. We could very well be seeing just nine new slots in SSB4. Therefore, no consistency.

I am not talking about this:

SSB: 0 + 12 = 12
Melee: 12 + 13 = 25
Brawl: 25 + 10 = 35

I am talking about that:

SSB: 12 x 1 = 12
Melee: ((12 x 2) + 1) = 25
Brawl: ((12 x 3) - 1) = 35

 

[Deleted member]

I am not talking about this:

SSB: 0 + 12 = 12
Melee: 12 + 13 = 25
Brawl: 25 + 10 = 35

I am talking about that:

SSB: 12 x 1 = 12
Melee: ((12 x 2) + 1) = 25
Brawl: ((12 x 3) - 1) = 35

I know that, but I am saying that there is no pattern in that. Regardless of how you try to twist this, there are not twenty-four characters in Melee and there are not thirty-six characters in Brawl. Even if we do get 47-49 characters, this "pattern" will have nothing to do with it.

 

[Jaklub]

Arcadenik, stop thinking with patterns. Do you really think they have already planned character number for SSB7 or 8?
SSBFan, 12x2 is 24 indeed, but Arcadenik adds 1 too. That's 25 for you. Then goes Brawl - 12x3, then subtract 1 from 36. What do we get? 35.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I don't see the pattern. The "+" and "-" destroys the pattern and as such, I doubt this means anything. Unlike the amount of hortizontal rows going up by one per game.
That is a poor comparison for many reasons:

- Super Smash Bros. and Marvel Vs. Capcom play dramatically different, it should be obvious.
- Super Smash Bros. is more of a party game while Marvel Vs. Capcom was made for the more competitive audience.
- Super Smash Bros. allows any character with potential move sets to be in as long as the other three requirements are in. Marvel Vs. Capcom requires the player to have much more the just simple fighting capability.
- They downgraded the amount of characters in Marvel Vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds for a reason. The balance in Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 (At least from what I've heard) was horrible. The only choice Capcom had to make a balance roster was to dumb it down. Fans may be ****** with it, but it had to be done. Brawl's roster aside from Ganondorf was mostly balanced. Capcom had a good excuse for doing it. If Nintendo drops the amount of characters in their next game, they will have no excuse and they will lose money for doing that.

SSB is not a party game it's a game for more open minded fighters while a game like MvC is for narrow minded people....

 

[Deleted member]

SSB is not a party game it's a game for more open minded fighters while a game like MvC is for narrow minded people....

Never said it was a party game, just that it resembles one because of the fact that the fighting style is much less limited and the game focus more on having fun then trying to keep a fighting style. Do you frequently see other fighting games that involves lots of items?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Never said it was a party game, just that it resembles one because of the fact that the fighting style is much less limited and the game focus more on having fun then trying to keep a fighting style. Do you frequently see other fighting games that involves lots of items?

Items are optional and usually it's better to play without it. but in fighting game SSB is unique.

 

[Deleted member]

Items are optional and usually it's better to play without it. but in fighting game SSB is unique.

That's the point I was trying to say. Super Smash Bros. is different from any other fighting games.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Smash is only different because it's a platform fighter. End of story.

 

[Gamingboy]

I think Nintendo franchises can be put into tiers that indicate the likelihood of inclusion and, to a slightly lesser extent, how many characters they will have.

I mean, Mario (and his related subseries and such), Zelda, Pokemon and to a lesser extent Kirby (who would probably be "second tier" in America but who more globally is a first tier- also, it's Sakurai's baby) are the biggest franchises in Nintendo. Even people who haven't played a game in those series are at least likely enough to know what they are, and in the case of some Mario and Pokemon characters, even people who haven't played ANY video games know who they are. Also note that all four of these series have had adaptations in TV and/or movies. Not surprisingly, these are the franchises best represented in Smash.

Metroid is sort of a "1.5 tier". Few would argue it is in the same level as Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, but it certainly it is above Fire Emblem (at least in America), Star Fox, etc.

Then there are franchises like Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Star Fox and Mother (again, it wouldn't be second tier in America, but it's popularity in Japan and critical acclaim gets it up more. Also note that the fact there has only been three Mother games is more because of Itoi's wishes than anything). These are series that, while critically acclaimed and popular, don't make as much an impact outside of the gaming culture.

Then there are the post-Pokemon Nintendo franchises that just haven't been able to get into the higher tiers (possibly because they have been overshadowed by the continuing dominance of Pikachu), but could as time goes on. For example, Pikmin could probably get up higher, but it only has had two games. Golden Sun probably will be able to one day get up, but only has had three games that, while well respected, haven't had as much impact as those franchises on the higher tiers. Ditto for Sin and Punishment, Animal Crossing (which would be higher... if there were any smashable characters), etc.

Then we have the other franchises, mostly from pre-Pokemon days.

Then there are "one game wonders".

And so on.


Note that third parties can go the same way: Sonic and Snake are iconic and both have made appearances on Nintendo consoles.



Note that I didn't place Kid Icarus anywhere, since we'll have to see how Uprising does before we can place it.

Feel free to comment.

 

[Arcadenik]

Arcadenik, stop thinking with patterns. Do you really think they have already planned character number for SSB7 or 8?
SSBFan, 12x2 is 24 indeed, but Arcadenik adds 1 too. That's 25 for you. Then goes Brawl - 12x3, then subtract 1 from 36. What do we get? 35.

All I am saying is that SSB4 could have somewhere from 47 to 49 slots... if it is less than 45, I will eat my crow.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I will say this. If the roster is 40 slots or less, I will not buy the game, regardless of what else the game has to offer. IMO, that's unacceptable.

Hehe, I bet you wouldn't besaying this if Megaman appeared now would you?

But on a serious note, if a pattern from Melee and Brawl keeps continuing, we can surely expect about 45/46 characters in the game including transformations.

I personally would like a bit more, but at the same time think about balancing issues, the more characters we end up with, the harder it is to do it properly, that's my guess anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

@Gamingboy: Putting them into "tiers" is not a good idea. Zelda is considered one of Nintendo's biggest series and I don't think we'll be getting anymore then what we already have. Even if Ghirahim sounds cool, the simple fact is that his chances are not good and neither are other Zelda reps as they would end up being clones. Heck, I would rather Nintendo focus on making Ganondorf and Toon Link unique then add in new characters.

Metroid is in what you call "Tier 1.5" and we're almost guarantee for a second slot. Star Fox and F-zero are much more likely to receive reps then Zelda. Also note that new franchise are more likely then Zelda, Star Fox, and in some cases, F-zero as well. King K. Rool is also likely to come to Smash 4 as playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Hehe, I bet you wouldn't besaying this if Megaman appeared now would you?

But on a serious note, if a pattern from Melee and Brawl keeps continuing, we can surely expect about 45/46 characters in the game including transformations.

I personally would like a bit more, but at the same time think about balancing issues, the more characters we end up with, the harder it is to do it properly, that's my guess anyway.

Actually, I still would because as much as I like to have Mega Man in the game, I still have some sort of expectations. Getting to 44 characters slots should not be a complete nightmare for the developers, especially since they for the most part did balancing well. And if we're counting transformations, the increase in number only went down once.

Remember that there are 26 players in Melee including transformation, which increased by fourteen from the original. Then Brawl went to 39, which was increased from Melee by 13. By this logic, assuming only 45/46 characters including transformations is inconsistent, if anything, if this so called "pattern" continues, we'll see 51 character (47 slots).

 

[Gamingboy]

@Gamingboy: Putting them into "tiers" is not a good idea. Zelda is considered one of Nintendo's biggest series and I don't think we'll be getting anymore then what we already have. Even if Ghirahim sounds cool, the simple fact is that his chances are not good and neither are other Zelda reps as they would end up being clones. Heck, I would rather Nintendo focus on making Ganondorf and Toon Link unique then add in new characters.

Metroid is in what you call "Tier 1.5" and we're almost guarantee for a second slot. Star Fox and F-zero are much more likely to receive reps then Zelda. Also note that new franchise are more likely then Zelda, Star Fox, and in some cases, F-zero as well. King K. Rool is also likely to come to Smash 4 as playable.

I somewhat meant not so much as "new" characters so much as if we included the old ones. Like, no matter what Mario and Pokemon are probably ALWAYS going to be having more characters than, say, Metroid. This isn't to say that Metroid won't get more characters, merely that it is unlikely that it will have more characters than the Mario and Pokemon games. And Punch-Out, for example, will probably not be having more than Star Fox anytime soon.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

By the way for who ever suggesting Fire Emblem character put on your mind these things before you say something unpleasant to the ear :


1.The character has to have a big role in the franchise.

2.Her/His death equal a game over in any chapter that he is playable in or most chapters.

3.Her/His death must have an impact in the characters.

4.He/She must be unmounted in-game. (unless sakurai wanna put mounted unit in-game it's possible).

 

[OmegaXXII]

All I am saying is that SSB4 could have somewhere from 47 to 49 slots... if it is less than 45, I will eat my crow.

Numbers like that are nice and all, but just think about it for a sec..

Do we really need more luigified characters? Clones?

As you would expect NO, but keeping the roster low also limits this from happening, it has it's pros and cons.

 

[Shanadeus]

So how do you think the Wii U controller will be used?

When it comes to online multiplayer I could see "customized" character (imported from the 3DS version or made from scratch) that use the touch screen for special moves and further customization.

Local multiplayer ideas:

Players 2-4 play control their characters using a Wiimote/Wiimote+nunchuck/Classic controlelr while player 1 uses the uMote in certain special modes.

For an example, he could take control of a boss (that's not normally playable and really shouldn't be due to balancing issues) and utilize the touch screen&uMote buttons/sticks to pull off special attacks that wouldn't be possible on a normal controller such as independently controlling two master hands and much more.

Another possible use for the uMode that would be a lot more causal friendly would be to allow the 1st player to control stage hazards kinda, item drops and more. Granny can now join in on the fun as she uses the simple stylus touchscreen to set off traps, shoot at players and drop items for her granddaughter.

 

[Deleted member]

Numbers like that are nice and all, but just think about it for a sec..

Do we really need more luigified characters? Clones?

As you would expect NO, but keeping the roster low also limits this from happening, it has it's pros and cons.

The amount of lugified and clones in percentage have actually gone down from Melee. There were seven lugified/clones in Melee which took up about 1/4 of the roster. Brawl has only six "clones, but the "clones" are more original and as such, the percentage isn't as high. The game has clones, but the situation isn't nearly as bad as other fighting games. As long as they stick to unique players, ,ore characters =/= more clones. I can think of 15 potential newcomers that wouldn't likely be clones of another character. It can easily handle 44 character slots without having clones take up a larger percentage rate in the next Smash. There's also the possibility of Luigi/Ganondorf/Toon Link becoming completely unique and Wolf/Toon Link being cut. If all newcomers are completely unique and if Luigi, Ganondorf, and Toon Link become unique, we could be look at only three lugified characters in the next Smash. As for the remaining three {Falco, Wolf, Lucas}, they can be lugified even more.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

So how do you think the Wii U controller will be used?

When it comes to online multiplayer I could see "customized" character (imported from the 3DS version or made from scratch) that use the touch screen for special moves and further customization.

Local multiplayer ideas:

Players 2-4 play control their characters using a Wiimote/Wiimote+nunchuck/Classic controlelr while player 1 uses the uMote in certain special modes.

For an example, he could take control of a boss (that's not normally playable and really shouldn't be due to balancing issues) and utilize the touch screen&uMote buttons/sticks to pull off special attacks that wouldn't be possible on a normal controller such as independently controlling two master hands and much more.

Another possible use for the uMode that would be a lot more causal friendly would be to allow the 1st player to control stage hazards kinda, item drops and more. Granny can now join in on the fun as she uses the simple stylus touchscreen to set off traps, shoot at players and drop items for her granddaughter.

^^^^^^^
Hail to you man,great ideas.

 

[OmegaXXII]

By the way for who ever suggesting Fire Emblem character put on your mind these things before you say something unpleasant to the ear :


1.The character has to have a big role in the franchise.

2.Her/His death equal a game over in any chapter that he is playable in or most chapters.

3.Her/His death must have an impact in the characters.

4.He/She must be unmounted in-game. (unless sakurai wanna put mounted unit in-game it's possible).

Well I would exactly consider Caeda to meet those requirements but..

Seeing that Fire Emblem PoR and RD sold poorly in Japan, chances are The Black Knight may not make it, which is sad because hes Ike's Main Antagonist in the series plus he has a bad*** persona to him.

If he isn't considered which I hope he is, then I wouldn't mind seeing Caeda from Shadow Dragon instead, like I mentioned before she's unique as far as weapons go, plus she and Marth would make a great team.

 

[Jaklub]

So how do you think the Wii U controller will be used?

When it comes to online multiplayer I could see "customized" character (imported from the 3DS version or made from scratch) that use the touch screen for special moves and further customization.

Local multiplayer ideas:

Players 2-4 play control their characters using a Wiimote/Wiimote+nunchuck/Classic controlelr while player 1 uses the uMote in certain special modes.

For an example, he could take control of a boss (that's not normally playable and really shouldn't be due to balancing issues) and utilize the touch screen&uMote buttons/sticks to pull off special attacks that wouldn't be possible on a normal controller such as independently controlling two master hands and much more.

Another possible use for the uMode that would be a lot more causal friendly would be to allow the 1st player to control stage hazards kinda, item drops and more. Granny can now join in on the fun as she uses the simple stylus touchscreen to set off traps, shoot at players and drop items for her granddaughter.

I'd be happy if Wii U controller increased the number of fighters in one battle to 5.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Well I would exactly consider Caeda to meet those requirements but..

Seeing that Fire Emblem PoR and RD sold poorly in Japan, chances are The Black Knight may not make it, which is sad because hes Ike's Main Antagonist in the series plus he has a bad*** persona to him.

If he isn't considered which I hope he is, then I wouldn't mind seeing Caeda from Shadow Dragon instead, like I mentioned before she's unique as far as weapons go, plus she and Marth would make a great team.

As far as Lance usage Ephraim is way better in term of skills.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be happy if Wii U controller increased the number of fighters in one battle to 5.

Me too. That would be perfect and make Smashing so much more fun.

 

[Cheezball]

I'd like to see some sort of daily event match to stop the game from getting boring... Like an easy event, a normal event, and a hard event. They're randomly generated... They also look at your stats, and use those to create the event. Say you have a hard time against a certain character, or don't use a certain character often. "As Jigglypuff, beat King DeDeDe!" or "Survive 2 minutes while shrunk against Giant Mr. Game and Watch"

These are merely examples, and I'm sure there can be better, but yeah... I love event matches, and I hate when they're all finished up.

 

[Conviction]

Why stop at 5?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TNw1JWKgEk&feature=related

 

[Deleted member]

I'd like to see some sort of daily event match to stop the game from getting boring... Like an easy event, a normal event, and a hard event. They're randomly generated... They also look at your stats, and use those to create the event. Say you have a hard time against a certain character, or don't use a certain character often. "As Jigglypuff, beat King DeDeDe!" or "Survive 2 minutes while shrunk against Giant Mr. Game and Watch"

These are merely examples, and I'm sure there can be better, but yeah... I love event matches, and I hate when they're all finished up.

I think we should have weekly/bi-weekly matches. Daily events are too frequents and would require unnecessary work. Doing it only a weekly/bi-weekly matter lets them focus on other things more, like keeping online smooth and running, providing DLC, etc.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The amount of lugified and clones in percentage have actually gone down from Melee. There were seven lugified/clones in Melee which took up about 1/4 of the roster. Brawl has only six "clones, but the "clones" are more original and as such, the percentage isn't as high. The game has clones, but the situation isn't nearly as bad as other fighting games. As long as they stick to unique players, ,ore characters =/= more clones. I can think of 15 potential newcomers that wouldn't likely be clones of another character. It can easily handle 44 character slots without having clones take up a larger percentage rate in the next Smash. There's also the possibility of Luigi/Ganondorf/Toon Link becoming completely unique and Wolf/Toon Link being cut. If all newcomers are completely unique and if Luigi, Ganondorf, and Toon Link become unique, we could be look at only three lugified characters in the next Smash. As for the remaining three {Falco, Wolf, Lucas}, they can be lugified even more.

Hmm...well looking at it that way might do the Smash roster some justice, but still only if Ganondorf, Toon Link, Falco/Wolf get diverse movests from their counterparts would this work, otherwise expect to see more luigified if any newcomers show.

As for newcomers, 15 with completly unique move sets just sounds a little "too good to be true", if Brawl had 39 characters and all characters would comeback, of course this is saying some got replaced over others, then I could only see 10 newcomers (49/50) at most having completly unique movesets without being luigified to some extent.

 

[OmegaXXII]

As far as Lance usage Ephraim is way better in term of skills.

But is Ephraim as popular? Any recent Fire Emblem game? But of course I may be wrong on this, any FE character that isn't relavent might as easily show up, personally someone like Hector who wields an Axe would definetly bring something new to the table.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm...well looking at it that way might do the Smash roster some justice, but still only if Ganondorf, Toon Link, Falco/Wolf get diverse movests from their counterparts would this work, otherwise expect to see more luigified if any newcomers show.

As for newcomers, 15 with completly unique move sets just sounds a little "too good to be true", if Brawl had 39 characters and all characters would comeback, of course this is saying some got replaced over others, then I could only see 10 newcomers (49/50) at most having completly unique movesets without being luigified to some extent.

The following could have completely new move sets:
- Ray MK III
- Mega Man
- Medusa
- Palutena
- Bowser Jr.
- Paper Mario
- King K. Rool
- Victini
- Little Mac
- Saki Amamiya
- Ridley
- Takamaru
- Meowth
- Toad
- Caeda/Micaich
- Samurai Goroh/Black Shadow (Mario_And_Sonic Guy said something earlier about Black Shadow having unique power, I'd like for him to expand upon that)
- Krystal
- Ghirahim
- Duck Hunt Dog
- Chibi-Robo

Granted, quite a few of these are questionable at best when it comes to likelihood, but to say that we don't have at least 15 more potentially unique newcomers is a stretch.

 

[Gamingboy]

.He/She must be unmounted in-game. (unless sakurai wanna put mounted unit in-game it's possible).

While obviously not Fire Emblem, I do seem to remember there being some some requests for a "Mario on Yoshi" character or, even less likely, some sort of way that Mario and Yoshi, if on the same team, could "combine" into one.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Actually, I still would because as much as I like to have Mega Man in the game, I still have some sort of expectations. Getting to 44 characters slots should not be a complete nightmare for the developers, especially since they for the most part did balancing well. And if we're counting transformations, the increase in number only went down once.

Remember that there are 26 players in Melee including transformation, which increased by fourteen from the original. Then Brawl went to 39, which was increased from Melee by 13. By this logic, assuming only 45/46 characters including transformations is inconsistent, if anything, if this so called "pattern" continues, we'll see 51 character (47 slots).

Well if going by your logic, we should indeed see about 50/52 characters in game including transformations, still I worry if Sora and Sakurai will be able to pull it off good and effectively.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

But is Ephraim as popular? Any recent Fire Emblem game? But of course I may be wrong on this, any FE character that isn't relavent might as easily show up, personally someone like Hector who wields an Axe would definetly bring something new to the table.

Axe = Sword a harder to be used.

Lance = Staff with sharp tip = unique

Black knight can use lances maybe we will see hi, use Wish Blade as one of his moves

and Ike can use axes....until now all the character we had only use Swords in SSB Ike in PoR was a sword user only and if he included Ike we might see him using Uravn on one of his moves.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

A possible idea, regarding Adventure Mode...

A new threat comes to the world of trophies, and this being uses its powers to get hold of Nintendo's greatest villains; Bowser, Ganondorf, Ridley, K. Rool, Wolf, Black Shadow, etc..

The being also has the power to create phony trophies and bring them to life. With the power to create an endless army, along with Nintendo's villains in its grasp, this threat plans to turn the world of trophies into a wasteland invaded with evil false trophies.

The being also possess tools which can turn fighters back into trophies; just like the Dark Cannons, but are less bulky. It gives them to the villains in order to capture the heroes.

As the story progresses, various characters will be involved in the battle to save the world of trophies, and signs of treason will also pop up. Little do the villains know that the evil being is merely using them as tools, and plans to betray them when their objective is finished.

In terms of what this evil being will appear as, its appearance would be similar to that of Nightmare, from the Kirby series.

 

[Shanadeus]

So how do you think the Wii U controller will be used?

When it comes to online multiplayer I could see "customized" character (imported from the 3DS version or made from scratch) that use the touch screen for special moves and further customization.

Local multiplayer ideas:

Players 2-4 play control their characters using a Wiimote/Wiimote+nunchuck/Classic controlelr while player 1 uses the uMote in certain special modes.

For an example, he could take control of a boss (that's not normally playable and really shouldn't be due to balancing issues) and utilize the touch screen&uMote buttons/sticks to pull off special attacks that wouldn't be possible on a normal controller such as independently controlling two master hands and much more.

Another possible use for the uMode that would be a lot more causal friendly would be to allow the 1st player to control stage hazards kinda, item drops and more. Granny can now join in on the fun as she uses the simple stylus touchscreen to set off traps, shoot at players and drop items for her granddaughter.

Another idea:

Local/online multiplayer

Team versus Team in a huuuge map!
Each team has a uMote+1-4 WiiMote players and they have to settle the score big time!

The uMote player basically plays a strategy game and uses his screen (where he can scroll and see the entire map) to command the WiiMote players around, drop items and use special powers (think smashpower kinda) by using energy spheres his team members pick up.

There could be a number of game modes taking advantage of this 10-player mode such as CTF, hold the zone or some regular smash mayhem with x lives.