New Singles Ruleset Idea (just want feedback)

[Strong Badam]

and with only 6 stages I don't have access to my character's best counterpick against fast fallers. :/

 

[-ACE-]

Brinstar is good for Ganon for several matchups, SB. I just think it changes matchups too much.

 

[Strong Badam]

It changes them in favor of worse characters, thus increasing the viability of them and increasing character diversity in tournament.

 

[-ACE-]

But the opposite could be said for both RC and KJ64...

I'm trying to be unbiased here lol

 

[Strong Badam]

I ban RC
Fox player bans Brinstar
I can still take him to FD/KJ64 if I want.

 

[-ACE-]

If he abuses what KJ64 has to offer, you're in trouble. Hell, you're in trouble anyway lol, just like me! it's FOX

 

[Strong Badam]

I'd be impressed if a Fox player managed to time me out on KJ64, or even camp me effectively. haha.

 

[-ACE-]

It can happen brotha

 

[Dark Hart]

so I think Fox is the best character in the game, but I still think people overrate him

 

[EPsilon933]

so I think Fox is the best character in the game, but I still think people overrate him

Nope, Fox is so broken. So much unpublishable stuff

 

[Dark Hart]

Falco beat Fox imo

so imo he's not broken

Also Marth has this thing with Fox I like to call an even match-up

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I would have a really liberal stage list with Hybrid Stage List Striking, as people who've been on the stage discussion thread would know...

 

[MTKO]

I would have a really liberal stage list with Hybrid Stage List Striking, as people who've been on the stage discussion thread would know...

I'd go with a more stage options as well, but I'd do something to allow players to strike more stages or something, so they're not going to end up with the opponent having very good counter pick stage options, unless the person banning just simply doesn't make smart choices when it comes to banning. I think that would be fair because picking the right stage is a huge part of the game and if you don't know, what stages are good and bad for your match ups, then you still have a lot more to learn about the game.

 

[Roneblaster]

Neutral:

FD, DL, BF

CP:

PS, YS, FoD, KJ


or

Legal stages:

FD, DL, BF, PS, YS, FoD, KJ

stage strike from all the stages

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Fontain of Dreams is more balanced than Dreamland and Final Destination >_>

 

[Redact]

Legal stages:

FD, DL, BF, PS, YS, FoD, KJ

stage strike from all the stages

Already do this in melbourne bruz

catch up

 

[-ACE-]

Neutral:

FD, DL, BF

CP:

PS, YS, FoD, KJ


or

Legal stages:

FD, DL, BF, PS, YS, FoD, KJ

stage strike from all the stages

I would be down for either of these, I think it would be a huge improvement.

Fontain of Dreams is more balanced than Dreamland and Final Destination >_>

That's beyond debatable. Low platforms kill many characters' SHFFLs and thus ruin techchasing. Falcon and Ganon do horribly there.

 

[Dark Hart]

I still don't see what's wrong with what we have

 

[-ACE-]

I still don't see what's wrong with what we have

I think you've thoroughly stated your opinion at this point Lucas.

Here's an example: I'll use Ganon since I main Ganon. Ganon has three bad stages imo:

FoD (low platforms kills shffl and ruin techchasing, a huge part of his game)
KJ64 (get camped hard by faster characters)
RC (get ***** during your mandatory jumps/landing lag by faster/more agile characters)

In a bo3 as it stands, I can easily be taken to one of these stages (whichever my opponent feels he has the best chance of winning), so I CANNOT lose once on a stage where the MU I'm playing is more balanced (or "less unfair" lol, since I'm usually playing against fox/falco/sheik/marth/falcon/etc) or I lose the set. It's not much different for a bo5. Just one example of how it makes the game a little bit less balanced.

 

[Marth307]

I like your idea Ace

 

[Dark Hart]

Dave, I'd never take you to a gay stage



cept I like fod so maybe that...

oh and didn't Kage beat Mango on FoD?

 

[Deleted member]

I think i'd rather have fd as the only neutral rather than 5 non-fd neutrals. but i see why you chose the way you did. that said, i still think ps and fod are more imbalanced.

fox is pretty far from broken on any of the legal stages or he'd be winning...stuff.

 

[-ACE-]

I agree Umbreon. I actually love FD, I was sort of influenced by what I thought others would be more likely to agree with/Europe's stage list.

Neutral: BF, FD, DL
CP: FoD, YS, PS

...would be cool with me.

edit: Yeah he did lucas, that shouldn't have happened though lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If we were trying to make the game "balanced", why haven't we given Pichu a handicap yet, Ace?

Being bad on lots of stages is a character flaw, and I don't see why we should cater the rule-set around Ganondorf, or any other character.

 

[-ACE-]

Grim, I'm not trying to cater the ruleset around Ganon (my OP proposes FoD as a neutral LOL), I just gave an example that involved something i was very familiar with. This has nothing to do with some personal agenda you think I possess. Pichu doesn't have a significant chance of being tournament-viable no matter what we do. It would be feasible, however, to see more mid/high tier characters placing higher (which would be nice and help this game's popularity imo, which would delay its death) if we didn't have stages that were essentially auto-win for spacies (RAINBOW EFFFING CRUISE WHY IS THAT STAGE LEGAL looool). And I guess this is a personal preference, but I'd hate to see hardcore camping become the norm in the current metagame. KJ64 encourages that *cough* pink shinobi *cough*. You should definitely use the rules to do everything you can to win, I just think the rules should be set so that the gayest tactics aren't incredibly easy to exploit (and see much success with, as a result) for some characters.

edit: Ganon also does decently on Brinstar and I'd like to see that one gone lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The way to do that isn't by removing stages, it's by adding more stage bans.

And I wasn't suggesting you were trying to cater the rule-set around Ganondorf because of your own personal bias, I was just wondering why you feel that we should be trying to balance the game ourselves despite the SQUILLIONS of double standards it would result in.

And I'll have you know that buffing Pichu is very feasible, handicap can make any character top tier (excluding Master Hand).

 

[-ACE-]

There really isn't much difference between getting rid of crazy stages vs giving people multiple stage bans, because you'd be getting rid of the same stages that people would often use one of their bans on...

either way would be cool.

Also grim, Europe has a very similar ruleset to what I proposed in the OP. Has their smash scene REALLY suffered that much? Has it considerably less depth?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Who bans Mute City in the Peach vs. Jigglypuff match-up?

And I'm not at all saying that there scene has suffered, I will definitely say that they are playing with less depth though (considerably is subjective, though I wouldn't say so).

 

[Kanelol]

FD's counterpick only?

**** THAT ****

 

[LatexRhombus]

grim tuesday wins.

 

[-ACE-]

Who bans Mute City in the Peach vs. Jigglypuff match-up?

And I'm not at all saying that there scene has suffered, I will definitely say that they are playing with less depth though (considerably is subjective, though I wouldn't say so).

I said "often", not always, and you gave me one example of when stage like that wouldn't be banned lol. gj

It could be argued that tripping adds depth lol, let's not get carried away. I don't see how gaining stage hazards/camping/RC(rc is in its own column of stupidity) is a decent trade off for a small amount of depth. Imo if you can't beat someone on neutrals you should just get better and not resort to a stage where your character has a large advantage (to an extent, that is; I just think certain stages are a bit over the top).

 

[LatexRhombus]

one of the problems with melee is the small number of new people joining (you can argue w/ that point if you want, but you are wrong...less people are coming in than are going out)

and limiting stages just makes the game less fun and less appealing to new players, especially when they are definitely at a lower level compared w/ other more experienced players

 

[BigWenz]

Fontain of Dreams is more balanced than Dreamland and Final Destination >_>

this better be trolling. cause just no.


also whats peoples opinions about bringing back corneria? As far as im concerned if we have brinstar and RC legal which are defiantely gayer then corneria, i see no reason why it should be banned.

 

[Divinokage]

this better be trolling. cause just no.


also whats peoples opinions about bringing back corneria? As far as im concerned if we have brinstar and RC legal which are defiantely gayer then corneria, i see no reason why it should be banned.

I would disagree to that, but ok.. Everyone has their own bias..

 

[EPsilon933]

this better be trolling. cause just no.


also whats peoples opinions about bringing back corneria? As far as im concerned if we have brinstar and RC legal which are defiantely gayer then corneria, i see no reason why it should be banned.

Fox and Falco get nerfed. Balance

Corneria has a fin that's good for tents, which is gayer than lava and a splittable weirdly shaped main floor and a playground for tag

 

[Kanelol]

Fox and Falco get nerfed. Balance

Corneria has a fin that's good for tents, which is gayer than lava and a splittable weirdly shaped main floor and a playground for tag

This post is nothing short of poetry

 

[Divinokage]

This post is nothing short of poetry

Ya again this stage is ridiculous for spacies against most matchups. =P

 

[BigWenz]

at this point what stage isnt good for spacies save for brinstar? theirs a reason why they are the best characters in this game. also Falco on RC. Shine Shine off the top at like 10%. Also running away and lasers. I just dont see how corneria is any gayer then cruise. i guess u can make an argument for brinstar since its not as easy to camp there but RC is just as campy as corneria can be if not worse.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I said "often", not always, and you gave me one example of when stage like that wouldn't be banned lol. gj

I can give you MANY more examples, if you'd like.

It could be argued that tripping adds depth lol, let's not get carried away. I don't see how gaining stage hazards/camping/RC(rc is in its own column of stupidity) is a decent trade off for a small amount of depth. Imo if you can't beat someone on neutrals you should just get better and not resort to a stage where your character has a large advantage (to an extent, that is; I just think certain stages are a bit over the top).

We AREN'T gaining camping, because the stages would be banned in any MU that results in camping. We AREN'T gaining stage hazards that completely destroy characters (like the lava on Brinstar against Fox) because those stages can be banned too.

Finally: We don't have to have stages that give a large advantage either, because, guess what: You can ban a stage that your opponent is really good on.

this better be trolling. cause just no.

also whats peoples opinions about bringing back corneria? As far as im concerned if we have brinstar and RC legal which are defiantely gayer then corneria, i see no reason why it should be banned.

1. Get the lead as Young Link.
2. Jump down to the lower turret.
3. Crouch.
4. GG, you're unapproachable.

 

[Bing]

Being honest, I hate counter picks and ****. When people ask me to strike, I just say the first one that comes to mind, and when its my Counter strike, I simply hit random...

I just practice on all the stages...I dont see how hard that is...