new olimar stage counterpicks: we are back! pikachu

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 5
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 6
Lylat cruise 2
Pokemon Stadium 1 N/A

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 3
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair N/A



btw, little side note, once again i have encountered ghost pikmin on delflino, the glitch+my playstyle on that stage completely hate each other so it is now my least favorite stage (cost me a match in a wifi set today >_>)


also, i feel people should just fight me on that stage because half the time i will get ghost pikmin once per time playing on it...making it extremely easy to figure out...

 

[Llumys]

I'll do 1-5.

Battlefield 2
Final Destination 5
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 5
Lylat Cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 N/A

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 3
Pictochat 5
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 3
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive 1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5
Norfair 3

 

[Sky Pirate]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 2

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 4
Lylat Cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 4

Brinstar 1
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 2
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 5
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 4

Distant Planet 2
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive 1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair 3

 

[Xisin]

I honestly don't think you guys understand marth on castle siege all that well >___> one glitch/at/w/ due to pikmin grab invincibility frames do not make this a counterpick.

 

[Fino]

I honestly don't think you guys understand marth on castle siege all that well >___> one glitch/at/w/ due to pikmin grab invincibility frames do not make this a counterpick.

No, but it's the low ceiling, on the first part; the small stage with platforms playing into an differing advantages for either char (first one in the air takes 80%)

The second part, olimar can camp like a mother, and force marth to run away like a little girl... either that or trade lots of hits.... marth can't really gimp olimar on this section either which, from playing haze, is the best way I think a marth should take a stock off olimar.

The third part is kind of neutral. I think the curve lines of the stage as well as the tilting helps olimar's grab game against marth, though can also give marth some advantage for frame trap combos. disadvantaged with an extra 3 frame on pikmin pluck iirc lulz... but that doesn't matter a whole lot

castle siege was the first stage I beat haze on in a friendly set (I think...)


~Fino

 

[Xisin]

an answer! great was wanting to debate some. Here is my input.

No, but it's the low ceiling, on the first part; the small stage with platforms playing into an differing advantages for either char (first one in the air takes 80%)


The first part might as well be dubbed battlefield part 2, the platforms are the perfect level for marth, and the "low" ceiling doesnt make that much of a difference considering it doesnt kill me when im uptilted by snake at 120% (fresh.) marths better at juggling oli than the other way around but both are very good at it. Thing is though marth has better tools to put oli in the air than vice versa. also marth does not get caught under the ledges for what its worth. first part is marths advantage for sure.

The second part, olimar can camp like a mother, and force marth to run away like a little girl... either that or trade lots of hits.... marth can't really gimp olimar on this section either which, from playing haze, is the best way I think a marth should take a stock off olimar.


Correct, however who says marth has to approach? frankly i can run away away from olimar all day and just wait out the transformation if need be... Olimar cannot catch marth especially when he has this much room to run around with. IF i do decide to fight you kos happen early on both sides just due to the walkoffs. Statues being up helps deal with olimars campiness. Tranformation favors olimar, but just slightly but you also have to consider marth doesnt have to fight you here.


The third part is kind of neutral. I think the curve lines of the stage as well as the tilting helps olimar's grab game against marth, though can also give marth some advantage for frame trap combos. disadvantaged with an extra 3 frame on pikmin pluck iirc lulz... but that doesn't matter a whole lot

i find it easier to gimp oli here than fd for sure, which is what this is somewhat comparable to, this part doesnt have much of an effect on eithers game really except the tilting of the stage and even then its minimal. I think the transformation goes to marth due to combat advantages.

castle siege was the first stage I beat haze on in a friendly set (I think...)



~Fino

Comments in the quote box. I agree with hilt on the CS part, its no better than neutral definatly not counterpick material and is probably in marths favor.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Gonna have to side with Xisin on this one. Castle Seige seems in no way to benefit us against Marth. As he said earlier, the first phase is worse for us than battlefield, low ceiling or not. The platforms are amazing for him, and he can utilize them better than us. We're not able to get a safe spot or space well, while spacing for him is simple, in the close quarters.

As Xisin said, second phase he doesn't have to fight us. Few characters really do :/ It's not that hard to run away from Olimar on a stage as big as this.

Third phase is a mixture of FD (but smaller) and Lylat.

Okay, okay, there's been four lists after mine. Denti's list was a somewhat edited version of mine, with small things he felt were corrections, but the other three were basically... well the people just basically posted a list, gave no reasoning to why they felt that way, and were done with it >.> That doesn't get anything done lol. We should have a starting list, and then the next person edits it, saying things they disagree with, have an argument/discussion, or whatever, instead of just saying "no, your list is wrong, this is what the list should be:" posting the list, giving no reason behind it, and then leaving >.>

So one last time, here's my list with reasonings for every stage. If there's something someone disagrees with, don't just tell me I'm wrong, tell me WHY I'm wrong.


Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 2
Halberd 4/5
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3/4

Brinstar 2
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 4
Pictochat 3
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion /34
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 4/5
Norfair 2

Direct copy from previous post:
Marth can make good use of the platforms on battlefield, but not so much that's it's noticeably better than us. I'm starting to lean more towards 3 and 4 for smashville and FD respectively, just because i don't think the huge size makes AS big of a difference as some people think against marth. Against other characters it does but marth is good at closing in on us so it doesn't matter as much. Yoshi's island platoform setup is amazing for us against him. And he can't take advantage of them as much.

Direct Copy from previous post:
Frigate is thought to be really good against marth due to the purple/yellow pikmin and the fact that the right side hurts marth almost as much as it does us. However, marth is extremely getting us off stage and edge guarding us. The mercy platforms on the second phase don't help us as much as marth isn't like falco or whoever and actually is able to go off stage and effectively edge guard us well. Also the second phase is too good for marth, especially if he has the low ground. I could honestly see the stage as being a 2, but I don't know. Definitely nothing better than a three by any means.

I'm dead ****ing serious about japes xD If there's ANY matchup that the stage becomes an advantage for us in, it's this one. Marth just can't do anything if olimar is playing as gay as possible. It's basically the same situation as fighting diddy on the stage. Japes isn't one of marth's good stages to begin with, as well. I've explained oli on japes enough. It's most likely only a four though.

Pictochat's space and odd shapes to get around benefit us more than him. I'm not entirely sure about picto in this matchup tbh, but I'm not seeing anything drastic that would turn it in either of our favors.

Purples on Delfino + space makes this a solid stage against marth imo. The odd shape of the beaches benefit us in forcing marth to approach at awkward angles (I'm really starting to think the beach is one of the best sections for us).

Rainbow Cruise isn't completely terrible for us, but it isn't extremely great either. THe first section is kind of bad for us. Second CAN be good if we're able to get the **** away and force weave through his approaches. It's difficult for marth to approach us at this part of the stage if we move from platform to platform well enough. The part after the pendulum phase is pretty good for us as well, as we're basically ungimpable. However, in the second phase, if he corners us we're ****ed, and will pretty much be assured of losing a stock. All in all an average CP for him against us, though I'm not sure how terrible it'd be completely.

Stadium is definitely a solid CP against marth, quite possible a four, but there isn't anything on it that would drive the stage into marth's favor.

Brinstar's bad for us against him for obvious reasons. He's much better at controlling the air than us, and keeping stage control on brinstar is difficult seeing how the stage is shaped. Definitely not a stage I'd want to face marth on.

The last four stages (Luigi's Mansion, Pipes, PTAD, and Norfair) I really don't feel need to be explained >.>

Alright... that took up way too much time @_@

 

[Dabuz]

wow, i don't have the ability to ever write that much, all ill say for some stages is

lylat: marth can abuse fair when he waits for the stage tilt to be making olimar on the higher part of the tilt, and the fact that its a lot harder to punish marth's fair on this stage in general due to the tilting + fact that its not 100% flat, most marth's love this stage for a reason, its a 2 and oli doesn't gain much on this stage

norfair: get on bottom, keep that stage control, marths can't safely fair olimar, we win when on bottom, just getting there safely is the only problem, id say 4

fd: we need all the room we can get in this matchup because marth has a great pressure game at close up and FD allows us to make the most of our pivot grabs + punishing marths failed approaches (more room to fall back to=more mistakes marth can make before getting us at an edge) hence a 5


thats all im gonna say, ill try to get what i think is a good list for marth up sometime this week

 

[Fino]

I think you should knock halberd down to a 4, and just put japes as a 5. Japes outshines every other stage in this match-up... because it's almost impossible for marth to get through the homolimar barrage on the right platform.
That and... bad stage for marth in general.


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

Eh, I really disagree with Yoshi's island being a 4. It's really, really short. It doesn't give me much wiggle room for a lot of pivotgrabs and spacing. I get cornered fairly easily. :/

 

[DtJ Hilt]

wow, i don't have the ability to ever write that much

haha you don't have to waste your time writing a wall of text. I was just bored >.>
Even doing like what you just did is great. Just as long as there's some discussion/arguments it's fine imo

 

[Kurri]

I think Port Town Aero Drive should be at least an even or maybe just a bit in Olimar's favor. So maybe a 3 or a tentative 4.

The stage has very few ledges, which normally hinders, but there's a track running under the stage most of the time. So instead of losing a stock, Oli takes 15%. Marth is put in the same position, but he also has the choice of using his UpB to recover onto the stage. The landing lag allows for some very early kills. At worst, Marth will choose the Olimar path and just hit the track.

There are also 3 points, that I can think of, in which Olimar can use his stage grab tricky thing(no idea what it's being called). Two leave Marth falling to his death and the third makes him skid against the grating left hand wall.

Also walk offs are present during the stage. At least one of them is completely level, with zero platforms. Add in the cars and this forces Marth to fight up close, on the ground, and near a walk off.

And worse comes to worse, can always whistle a car. Olimar will take 20% for it, but that's mostlikely better than marth will fair.

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4/5
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3/4

Castle Seige 2/3
Halberd 5
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 3
Pictochat 4/5
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1/2

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 3
Norfair 3


i don't like this list particularly but this seems like the current marth list, i think im just gonna skip marth because we gt VERY little input on most of our better players about this matchup

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Dabuz I think you're forgetting in your list that Olimar is broooooken on pipes :x but yeah, we can move to another matchup if you'd like. I don't have too much experience against GW though, however.

Also kurri, I think I see what you were talking about. Xisin was talking to me about something similar as well, but I don't see PTAD being completely terrible for Olimar (even though it is preeeetty bad >.>). But considering there's walkoffs, which help us, and marth gets messed up by the ledgeless sides as well, it wouldn't be too horrible in the matchup. I could see a 2 for it, maybe a 3, but I don't know.

 

[DanGR]

I'll go ahead and throw out my numbers:
(Marth)

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 2/3

Castle Seige 2
Halberd 4/5
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium1 4

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 3/4?
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship 3?
Pokemon Stadium2 2/3?
Rainbow Cruise 2/3

Distant Planet 3/4?
Green Greens 5
Luigi's Mansion 3?
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5?
Norfair 3?

(Question marks indicate that I've never played Marth on the stage, but I gave a ratio on what I thought it might be like.)

Low ceilings and short sides help a ton versus Marth so I gave Green greens and YIPipes the only solid 5. (Any of you guys have the latter legal?!?!) Halberd's low ceiling helps a lot too, so I gave it a 4/5.

Smashville, FinalD, PS1, and Luigi's mansion are really long and let Olimar space really well. LM isn't a "4" because I feel like it can be difficult to kill Marth there. Upsmash has to be at the right place, and if the Marth player spaces correctly, it'll be hard to land a dsmash.

I really hate RC, Ptad, PS2, Norfair, and Brinstar for the mobility factor, so I gave them 2s. Norfair has a 3 because Oli's camping game is buffed a little bit and it can be difficult for Marth to approach if the Oli is in the right place. That and Oli can kill well there.

The rest are average stages, so I gave them a 3. The good parts even out with the bad parts, imo.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Low ceilings and short sides help a ton versus Marth so I gave Green greens and YIPipes the only solid 5. (Any of you guys have the latter legal?!?!)

Tournament I went to last saturday had pipes legal =D
I was like <3<3<3<3
Midwest ftw?

I don't think there's a stage that can make Olimar any more broken ^^

 

[Dotcom]

I'm not too fond of going over every stage and rating it because the fac tof the matter is living in East Coast, and not playing wifi, gives you a real limited stage selection :[

I must say though people do indeed doubt the usefulness of Frigate Orpheon in this match up. This stage has become increasingly comfortable to fight on, and because of it I'm starting to get a gist of it's usefulness in general. But when dealing with Marth's the only reason it isn't a counter pick, is because most Olimar's don't feel comfortable with the fact that the right side is terrible.

Wrong. Frigate gives us all of the tools we need to fight Olimar without even trying to do so. One we must take into the consideration the best pikmin for this match up which would be Yellow and Purple. Yellow for disjointed hit boxes(it's good but don't try to contest your fairs, HE WILL WIN!), and the most important pikmin in this match up purple. I have no idea how many times playing on this stage I have ended up with only these two pikmin. Blue is either tied with Yellow for second, or it's third because of how much we need to grab. But with those two pikmin you begin to notice that the match begins to ease up in difficulty.

Stage sections. I'm never too hot for the first section because against characters like marth, I tend to get a little shaky at times but it's fine. When the movable section goes down you want to be in the middle of it You can camp to waste time and build damage, mainly if they are running away from you which they might try instead of trying to get to you through the pikmin. If they decide to come at you there's many options you could take. Up B goes through the section and you can fend them off with that at first because they most likely won't be expecting it. If they do expect it, short hop - up B(try to do it with a purple at the end of your line), because it will either: hit them, and they take damage and knock back, They try to fair through it, but still take damage and knock back because Purple Up - B has transcendent priority, or they air dodge through it and continue to rush at you. If number 3 happens you have already short hopped it, so it becomes lag less and you get the chance to punish. This is only if it's down, I try to stay away from it if it's raised or level. Also If they Up B through it, you get some nice damage opportunity, or maybe even a KO if you know the timing( be fancy and go for the spike :D)

The left side is not as tricky though. You want to stay under the platform for reasons of: camping, pivot and regular grabbing, easier opportunities to punish. IN most cases being on the platform with Marth near you is troubling, so generally try to stay off it.

Second Part: IS WHY I LOVE THIS STAGE! the ceiling is MUCH shorter than you think. like ALOT shorter. BLUE U throw will kill around 120 - 130. Small tips:
maintain stage control at all times, try to not be in the air too much at all and keep to one particular pat of the stage. Like if you want to maintain the middle stay around that area for a while, and let them come to you. I say that because from most experiences camping the middle works best, but the sides are generally amazing too. You grab down instead of straight which is somewhat of an advantage, and it's very easy to camp when you are on one side. Sides are small as well so Blue/Purple throw F throws are encouraged to be saved as much as possible. Also if you want to land an Upsmash, it kills much easier when you are on the platform, I killed a Marth with good DI , with a Purp. fresh U Smash at around 75- 80 I can't remember, but he was really upset XD

But it's still frigate so 4. ...
I'ts my 5 though haha my second choice to Halberd,

 

[Dabuz]

if someone wants, they can take the averages and list them, and also,


also, imma edit something

vs DDD, BF=5(all his options are limited by platforms) and FD is 3, he can maneuver around that stage in a way that isn't easy for olimar to punish

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige 2
Halberd 5
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 3
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5
Norfair 3


i don't like this list particularly but this seems like the current marth list, i think im just gonna skip marth because we gt VERY little input on most of our better players about this matchup

im just gonna put this list in and note for it to be rediscussed later, any last comments on it?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Looks good to me.

Let's move on to GW?

 

[DanGR]

Sure. I'll do my the first, I suppose. What exactly do the numbers mean? I'm putting 3 as average, 2 as bad, 1 as instant loss, 4 as good, 5 as great, and LOL as... well... LOL.

("?" marks that I haven't played a G&W there before, so I'm guessing.)

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 3
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 3?
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3?

Brinstar 2?
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 2?
Jungle Japes 2?
Pictochat 3/4?
Pirate Ship 1?
Pokemon Stadium2 2/3?
Rainbow Cruise LOL

Distant Planet 3?
Green Greens 2/3
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive 2?
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 3?
Norfair 3

Keep in mind that G&W kills off the top even earlier than we do, so stages like green greens and halberd can be bad for us. Good stages are those that let us juggle better because it's hard to combo G&W (stages with platforms are wonderful: battlefield, YI).

G&W really wins the counterpicking battle. He's much more versatile with his good aerial movement and awesome recovery. This gives him an awesome array of counterpicking options.

 

[Llumys]

Gamaminwazatchoo...

Hmm...


Battlefield - 4
Final Destination - 3
Smashville - 3
Yoshi's Island - 4

Castle Seige - 4
Halberd - 4
Lylat Cruise - 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 - 4

Brinstar - 2
Delfino - 3
Frigate Orpheon - 2
Jungle Japes - 3
Pictochat - 3
Pirate Ship - 1
Pokemon Stadium - 2
Rainbow Cruise - LOL

Distant Planet 4
Green Greens 3
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive 1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 3
Norfair 3

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise really hard to say
Pokemon Stadium 1 N/A

Brinstar 2
Delfino N/A
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes N/A
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 2?
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair 2



all neutrals: there just isn't anything on neutrals that helps out G&W more than olimar, they are all really helpful and come down to preference

halberd: not a bad stage, we both kill earlier, but unlike G&W, we can kill from sides quite good as well, so its not something to CP

lylat: its all about the tilt control, thats all, if olimar controls the tilting right(he is on lower tilt) he can destroy game & watch, but if he gets caught at upper ground he is ****ed, so, varies immensely, also, more yellows don't hurt in this matchup

LM: the pillars can give G&W more turtle time and smash time with each attack(in terms of hitbox being out) which is really just bad, and landing the kill or punishing his bairs isn't easy on this stage, we won't get close enough to upsmash lock consistently anyway

norfair: if we control the bottom of this stage G&W is pretty much in a bad position, but keeping it and getting it is really hard, every other part about this stage helps him a lot anyway

frigate: like i always say, amazing oli stage, easy to not get gimped, first part= hide under left platform, second part=control middle ftw, purples+light character=field day, and more yellows are amazing for this matchup

i don't have a lot of variety when it comes to stages in this matchup compared to most but the ones i commented on are the only ones that ive ever seen in this matchup anyway

 

[Llumys]

Would Luigi's Mansion really be a 2? I was thinking 3 at worst.

 

[Dabuz]

Would Luigi's Mansion really be a 2? I was thinking 3 at worst.

yeah, its really not friendly to oli in this matchup

 

[Llumys]

That's a dayum shame.

 

[Dabuz]

That's a dayum shame.

i agree not with this sentence

 

[Noa.]

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 3
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 4

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship 1
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion N/A
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair 2

This matchup is naturally in our favor, and none of the neutrals make the matchup lean in G&W's favor.

Pokemon Stadium is basically another neutral for us. The transformations make it even harder for G&W to approach, forcing him to use strange angles which we can easily exploit.

Japes is bad in this matchup because if we try to uair through the platform, G&W can shield the uair then UpB OoS which spikes us. G&W is also decent at killing at the sides with Fair.

Pirate Ship is a one because if G&W plays gay with water camping, there's not much Oli can do. If you throw pikmin G&W will just uair them away and Oli can't get into the water and combat well against G&W.

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 3
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 4

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 3
Pirate Ship 1
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet 3
Green Greens 3
Luigi's Mansion N/A
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 3
Norfair N/A


everyone's list seems very similar for the most part and a good amount of the smarter olis put up lists so i think this is right, any arguments before i update chart?

 

[Weruop]

neutrals seem to work fine in this matchup equally with a great counterpick being halberd imo
worst stage u can fight him on is cruise
G&W is one of the worst chars to be in the air against so that should be banned versus him

 

[Dyyne]

No arguments here, the list seems fine.

 

[Dabuz]

someone else take over this thread, im quitting brawl so unless you want this thread to die, someone else has got to run it

 

[Johnny Citrus]

Lol I hope someone takes over, this thread is pretty helpful.

 

[Noa.]

Don't worry, the situation is being handled. Within a week or so we'll get this thing going again.

 

[Dyyne]

I have more time on my hands now, so I could possibly take it over. It goes hand in hand with my thread anyway.

 

[Dabuz]

*brings back to life*

i edited the chart, now we discuss pikachu

 

[BlackWaltzX]

*brings back to life*

i edited the chart, now we discuss pikachu

How did your tourney go? d:

[On topic]
My personal idea on this subject. (Not for everyone?)

Neutrals 1=best
1 Battle Field
2 Smash Town
3 FD
4 Yoshi
5 Lylat

1 Halberd
2 Delfino
3 Castle Siege
4 Pokemon Stadium 1
5 Frigate
6 Rainbow Cruise

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Great to have you back dabuz

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 3
Smashville 2
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 4/5
Lylat cruise 4/5
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 3
Pictochat 2/3
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 1 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1/2

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) Probably 5
Norfair 2/3

The 2 on smashville is deserving, as the platform helps pika's camping ability a lot, making it difficult for us to camp/approach/pressure him. BF/FD/YI should be obvious. Same with lylat, which is pretty much just a better battlefield, as the tilting ****s with pika's recovery and the boost in yellows helps us out. The platforms are also amazing for us.

Stadium 2's transformations help pika out a lot, while they mess with us a lot in general. Frigate's colors hurt pikachu a lot, as does the ledgeless side. However pika is decent at gimping olimar, and can pressure us if we try to use the mercy platforms in the second phase.

I'll explain any of my other reasoning if anyone has a specific stage they're wondering about in my list.

 

[Dabuz]

blackwaltz: ill tell you how it went after i win one this weekend

also hilt, why would luigi mansion be a 3, the pillars plus being so closed in destroy pikachu's entire approach game, and destroying the stage to make it FD like is still an amazing stage for this matchup

for once i would put it down as 5

 

[DtJ Hilt]

You may be right. I know how good of a stage mansion is for pikachu. I'm not sure if we counteract it or not. I could see it being a four or five.

(also, i accidently hit edit instead of quote on your post, which is why it says i'm the last one to have edited it >.<)