new olimar stage counterpicks: we are back! pikachu

[Fino]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Siege 4 maybe 5
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 4
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship ???
Pokemon Stadium 2 ???
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet 4-5 (Olimar has a 0-death on snake here)
Green Greens 5
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive ???
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) meh....
Norfair ???

I took hilt's list and modified it to what I think. I have some questionable stages, but hopefully I can back them up.

Yoshi's Island: I have a personal distaste for yoshi's.... I would rather see it a 2, but I know it's a 3... questionably a 4.

Castle Siege: It's good on the first and second part for olimar, the third part probably being a 3. The small stage on the first part forces snake to play mid-range (his weakness and olimar's strong suit). Once snake is in the air it's really hard for him to come back on this part. The second part is where you get your camp on, since your projectiles go through the statues and his don't. As soon as he mortar slides to you he's dead... so he doesn't really have a good approach and thus has to do something to try and camp you back. The last part is just overall even on both sides imo

Lylat: I also don't think this stage helps olimar as much as we'd like it too.

Brinstar: Why is this a bad olimar stage? Against Wario and G&W I could see, but let's not vote out the stage for that reason. Against snake I really wonder what he is going to do. One he is grabbed it's a juggle war to get back on the ground. He can't stay on platforms because olimar will face **** him there too. I don't see any advantage for snake on this level, meanwhile olimar seem like he could just keep snake on the outs here.

Delfino / frigate: for reasons previously given

Pictochat: It's like FD except with hazards that can benefit a smart olimar (but also a smart snake). IMO olimar has more options that snake to put the hazards to an advantage, but snake still has a lot of tricksies.

Distant planet: Olimar has a chance to CG snake up the left side... it's a gay stage... and you will play gay to win there.


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Brinstar... I really don't think the stage is that good for Olimar :/

It puts too much of an emphasis on aerial combat, which Olimar just... isn't that great at. I could probably list off at least ten characters off the top of my head that would have a 2 or 1 in this list for brinstar >.> With most of the characters being pretty common and not low tiers. The platforms aren't bad for uair, tbh, and the lava can sometimes save you.

However I don't think it'd be a definite 2 against snake. 3, possibly 2, perhaps. I'd have to hear more reasons why it'd be decent against snake though :/ I'm just not seeing it. Personally I consider Brinstar to be one of Olimar's worst stages. However, this is throwing it in the same bunch as RC, Frigate, and Japes, so "worst stages" is a bit of a broad phrase >.>

 

[Llumys]

Battlefield - 8
Final Destination - 7
Smashville - 7
Yoshi's Island - 8

Castle Seige - 6
Halberd - 9
Lylat cruise - 8
Pokemon Stadium 1 - 8

Brinstar - 3
Delfino - 6
Frigate Orpheon - 4
Jungle Japes - 3
Pictochat - 5
Pirate Ship - n/a
Pokemon Stadium 2 - n/a
Rainbow Cruise - 3

Distant Planet - n/a
Green Greens - n/a
Luigi's Mansion - 5
Port Town Aero Dive - n/a
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - 10
Norfair - 4

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Battlefield - 4
Final Destination - 3
Smashville - 3
Yoshi's Island - 4

Castle Seige - 5
Halberd - 3
Lylat cruise - 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 - 3

Brinstar - 2
Delfino - 3
Frigate Orpheon - 3
Jungle Japes - 1
Pictochat - 3
Pirate Ship - n/a
Pokemon Stadium 2 - n/a
Rainbow Cruise - 2

Distant Planet - n/a
Green Greens - n/a
Luigi's Mansion - 4
Port Town Aero Dive - n/a
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - 3
Norfair - 2

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Wait, what?? :/

Saget, if you're going to give something that's entirely different than Everyone else's, it'd be best to give an explanation (looking mainly at FD at 3 while battlefield and yoshi's are at four....). People will take you more seriously if you do that.

 

[Snail]

Wait, what?? :/

Saget, if you're going to give something that's entirely different than Everyone else's, it'd be best to give an explanation (looking mainly at FD at 3 while battlefield and yoshi's are at four....). People will take you more seriously if you do that.

I think they're out of 5 ._. Multiply by two and it's not too different from what others posted. (Slightly, but the neutrals are pretty much the same)

Although I wonder why he gave Norfair a 2.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Wait, what?? :/

Saget, if you're going to give something that's entirely different than Everyone else's, it'd be best to give an explanation (looking mainly at FD at 3 while battlefield and yoshi's are at four....). People will take you more seriously if you do that.

well its out of 5.

Anyway for FD since it's a very simple stage. Snake can set a lot of his little traps in it and because of the size u can be pressured into either one of his c4 grenades or his bombs underneath. I know it can be punished but if he catches u off guard. He will mortar slide u and u will be either hit or forced to stop camping. So i doubt its an advantage olimar. Its a draw because though olimar can outcamp snake. Snake can pressure u better. Do remeber that im still learning about the snake matchup. So if i sound like a major dumba$$ do know thats the reason.

For battlefield, there are platforms. The plan for olimar is to get snake on the 2 lower platforms. Olimar can then utilt and uair through. Since there are platforms olimar can avoid some of snakes bombs and throw pkmn from there. Though mortar slding could be a problem. If he mortar slides quickly get off the platform. then fsmash if u have time.

For yoshis island, it could be called even aswell. The same reasons above though mostly on a lesser extent.

 

[Dabuz]

saget, like you said, you lack the understanding of this matchup, on BF a good snake will never be on a platform like enough to punish, on FD, snake is forced to approach which oli can easily stop, and YI can really be abused with nades sorta like how wolf is able to outcamp us there, snake can also outcamp oli on YI, i would change it to a 2

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Ca u please explain how we r outcamped at YI. This is one of the matchups that i almost clueless in.

 

[Dabuz]

Ca u please explain how we r outcamped at YI. This is one of the matchups that i almost clueless in.

ok, here is situation, grenades thrown, they land on top platform, we cannot approach or make any spacing attempts, they roll down to our side, we are forced to react, snake ccan easily predict reaction do to often one rolled nade and one just chilling in the middle, so to avoid getting hit we do a very predictable avoid move, he punishes, we get hit, rinse repeat


now, because of the nades on top platform we can't get close enough to throw pikmins onto the snake, so our projectile is made useless while his is magnified on this stage

 

[BOB SAGET!]

ok, here is situation, grenades thrown, they land on top platform, we cannot approach or make any spacing attempts, they roll down to our side, we are forced to react, snake ccan easily predict reaction do to often one rolled nade and one just chilling in the middle, so to avoid getting hit we do a very predictable avoid move, he punishes, we get hit, rinse repeat


now, because of the nades on top platform we can't get close enough to throw pikmins onto the snake, so our projectile is made useless while his is magnified on this stage

So on YI were screwed then.

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 5
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 3
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet 4
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 4
Norfair 2


how does that sound for final list, any arguements/ concerns?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

No disagreements here, dabuz. everything looks right to me.

I just remembered the next character's wario :/
I never get to fight warios....

 

[Llumys]

I'm liking it, but I'm still surprised Frigate would get as high as four.

 

[Sky Pirate]

As much as I love the stage, I think RC should be brought down to a 2.
A good Snake is actually kind of scary there, even on the second part.

 

[Dabuz]

chart updated, my opinions on the stages for this dreadful matchup will be up later

 

[Fino]

Brinstar 5


~Fino

 

[Zori]

dabuz knows the snake match up

just throwing out fsmashes really shut him down o-0


also yoshis island is a terrible stage

 

[Dabuz]

don't just spam them though, i good snake can easily just wait it out and then dacus, hence why i mix up pivot grabs

 

[Zori]

dont take this away from me

 

[PhantomX]

No disagreements here, dabuz. everything looks right to me.

I just remembered the next character's wario :/
I never get to fight warios....

Come to Oh Snap... there will be thousands of us there, apparently.

 

[Fino]

Come to Oh Snap... there will be thousands of us there, apparently.

I'm coming =]


~Fino

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 3
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 N/A

Brinstar 1
Delfino 2
Frigate Orpheon 2
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet 4
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive 1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 4
Norfair 2


we have like, so many bad stages and very few good ones in this matchup...and all the good ones are generally banned

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I won't be able to assist much in this one :/

However, I have a few questions:

-Why is smashville better for us than FD is? Is it the size of FD that's too big? The platform on Smashville?
-Is FD really a three? I'd think that it would be the best of the neutrals to fight wario on, except for possibly yoshi's island. I can see how that would be better.
-..why isn't norfair a 1? >.>

 

[Aztec Avenger]

Yeah I don't know much about this match up, I have only faced like 5 Wario's good ones that is. I think Norfair is a one because if you're in the bottom platform, Wario can keep jumping around you trying to Dair you or bait you. If you roll you'll be pushed to the edge, if you hang he'll wait for you to get up and like Fsmash, grab or whatever. If you move to the middle of top platforms he can keep aproaching you from below and Wario is deadly enough in the air.

I think that's part of it, I'm not sure, but if any I think that would be the reason for Norfair being a bad stage.

 

[Dabuz]

I won't be able to assist much in this one :/

However, I have a few questions:

-Why is smashville better for us than FD is? Is it the size of FD that's too big? The platform on Smashville?
-Is FD really a three? I'd think that it would be the best of the neutrals to fight wario on, except for possibly yoshi's island. I can see how that would be better.
-..why isn't norfair a 1? >.>

the SV platform helps A LOT in this matchup, and wario can air camp too easily on FD, yoshis, maybe thats a 4, but its still not too great

Yeah I don't know much about this match up, I have only faced like 5 Wario's good ones that is. I think Norfair is a one because if you're in the bottom platform, Wario can keep jumping around you trying to Dair you or bait you. If you roll you'll be pushed to the edge, if you hang he'll wait for you to get up and like Fsmash, grab or whatever. If you move to the middle of top platforms he can keep aproaching you from below and Wario is deadly enough in the air.

I think that's part of it, I'm not sure, but if any I think that would be the reason for Norfair being a bad stage.

only reason norfair is a 2 is because its a hard stage for wario to kill oli on, that is the only reason its not a 1

 

[PhantomX]

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 3
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 N/A

Brinstar 1
Delfino 2
Frigate Orpheon 2
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet 4
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive 1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 4
Norfair 2


we have like, so many bad stages and very few good ones in this matchup...and all the good ones are generally banned

You should swap the grades for BF and SV. SV platform may save you occasionally, but the smaller stage size allows Wario to pressure you much much more than BF (plus on BF you have TWO platforms you can hide under, should Wario take over one of them).

Green Greens would be a 3, both of them can abuse this stage incredibly well.
PS2 is a 4, mostly b/c it's a mediocre stage at best for Wario... so I just assume everyone is better at it, plus you guys get that weirdass desynched upsmashes on the ice portion. Pirate Ship you're gonna lose, the stage is weirdly shaped, but Wario can maneuver around it amazingly quickly.

I can't comment on Pictochat because it hates and ***** me, lol.

PS1 is probably a 3, as is Castle Siege.

 

[Dabuz]

chart updated, next is falco...(who i go shiek on)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

lol well the Wario part didn't last long. Guess there isn't much wario experience among us.

Falco I know quite a bit more about though. Here's my general idea on the stage matchups.

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 2
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 4
Pokemon Stadium 1 3 (maybe 4)

Brinstar 3
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 1
Pictochat 3
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5
Norfair 4


I have a lot of "3/4's" in this one ^^;

FD is obviously falco's best neutral and the one that you wouldn't want to fight him on for the first stage. But it's not so bad that you'd have to worry about him cp'ing it on you too much. It's not as bad as japes against him. battlefield is decent against him, but the platforms don't help enough fo make it a solid cp, compared to other stages. I feel the same goes for lylat even with the tilting of the stage, however I can understand it being a 4 against him. It just doesn't **** him over as much as it does to fox/wolf (moreso wolf). Also his lasers are extremely annoying if he's on the lower end of the slant. Smashville or Yoshi's are the stages you'd want to fight falco on for the first stage.

Halberd, although being a good stage for Olimar, is also good for falco as well, save for the first part with the floating platform. The size of the stage helps falco and his laser campiness. Similar to FD but not as bad, considering the stage is good for olimar in general. It's not good enough for olimar in this matchup though to warrant a 4.

Brinstar might be better than I think of it to be against falco. I'm not sure how he does on the stage, but I hate brinstar for olimar and consider it one of his worst stages :/ (as i've said several times before, haha). I can't see it being too great for falco either, but I'm most likely wrong :x

I cp'd frigate against a falco a couple weeks ago for the set win and it's... a decent stage to face him on, to be honest. The size of the stage is great against falco because he, like olimar, has to stay away from the right side a lot of the time. When falco's recovering from the right he's extremely vulnerable. Also, the dip on the second phase is AMAZING against him. Not only that, but because falco isn't the best at edge guarding olimar off stage, the moving platforms on the side of the second phase are great at helping olimar in recovering. It's definitely worthy of a 4. Also purple pikmin are great against falco as well, and frigate and delfino are the only legal stages that increase purple pikmin percentages.

And while on the topic of delfino, I may start counterpicking it against falco more often. However the matchup of olimar vs falco on delfino is entirely dependant on the phase. Olimar is better against him on the floating platform part and beaches, while the phase on top of the house, the shine gate, the umbrella phase, and the awning phase (the part with the red awning on the left and the dip in the middle with water) are most likely better for falco, but not enough to make it a bad stage for olimar. The pillar section and stair phase are anyone's game imo.

 

[Fino]

Port Town Aero Dive 4

//wrist

Hilt... wtf are you thinking?

Also, I would put castle siege as a 4-5 for olimar, since neither of the 3 parts allow falco to camp effectively (especially part 1 and 2).


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

hahaha i was thinking "hey! falco gets ****ed over by PTAD rite? RITE?!?!"

>.>

fix'd it ^^;

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 2
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 5
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 3
Delfino 2
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes1
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 4
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair N/A

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Reasonings Dabuz? lol
Our stage lists are looking pretty different xD

Also this isn't relevant but I got the best player in our state to ban Japes against me :D

<3 Japes

 

[Fino]

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 2
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Siege 4
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 4
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 3
Delfino 3-4
Frigate Orpheon 4-5
Jungle Japes 1
Pictochat 3
Pirate Ship 4
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 6

Distant Planet 4-5
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 4
Port Town Aero Dive 0
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 4
Norfair 3-4

Hilt, dabuz wasn't too far off from you, he was just trying to spread his numbers out a bit better. I looked at both of your charts, and spread in my own input (usually agreeing or in between you two with a couple exceptions).

Distant planet - is good against falco because you can hard core CG him up the ledge (0-death if you do it right). Also, the stage really knocks away the things that gives falco an advantage over us. And it's our home stage ^-^

Rainbow Cruise - Falco is BAD here against olimar. on the boat you ravage him because he can't camp you due to the layout, and you have platforms and a wall... pretty good. The left side is good because you... lol... keep falco in the air (personally he prefers the air) XD rofl... starfox jokes aside, you just keep under him and uair camp. If he has to recover... **** him, his recovery is so slow and punishable XD. The top part eliminates his ability to camp as well, while also forcing falco to keep moving. IMO it's a great stage against him.

Frigate - is good... dabuz, don't put yourself down on this one

 

[Llumys]

Luigi's Mansion is always my counterpick against generic Falcos.

 

[Dabuz]

hilt: the only thing thats really majorly different is delfino, i just don't like that stage in general, the other things are only 1 point differences because i like/ dislke it more, also, the second part of CS destroys falco camping


fino: really?! im surprised for once people say frigate is good...normally its completely disagreed, hence the 3, but ok i guess...4 it is:D


also...for lylat and halberd

lylat: tilting screws up falcos spacing and laser camp and recovery game alot, i think considering how good it is for us it speaks for itself

hlaberd: i just like this stage because i mainly kill vertically and its like two fds in one, with a dip to duck in to avoid lasers :D

 

[DtJ Hilt]

If falco has the low ground on lylat olimar is ****ed :/
That's the problem with it. It's definitely good for olimar. Four I can see, five not so much. The tilting doesn't hurt falco as much as it does to wolf. Or even fox >.>

edit: you don't like delfino? D:

 

[Dotcom]

WHy does no one seem to Like Delfino?

I just don't see it being all that strong in the matchup, except for the switches really stop his camping, and farvor yours.... ok maybe it can be a counterpick if they aern't suspecting.

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 2
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 4
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 3
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 1
Pictochat 3
Pirate Ship 4
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet N/A
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 4
Port Town Aero Dive 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 4
Norfair 4



is this a good falco stage list?

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Thats good, maybe pokemon stadium could be 4 but 3 is better. Lets move on.