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New info on the outcome of a ganoncide.

SmashBrosForce

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
781
There was no hostility intended whatsoever. I apologize if I came off hostile.

Anyway, there is more to this move than meets the eye. SmashBrosForce has been active behind the scenes and he did what I could not: win with a Ganoncide. Admittedly, it was in sudden death only, but I never succeeded in winning a sudden death after 50 tests. SBForce, post your results here so all can see them, please.
So... Let me help Twilight Prince, Explain a little bit about Ganoncide and put a Test that drew me more attention.

First...
Ganoncide is a matter which we need Understand the Laws of this move and We can't Waste our precious time Discussing that Ganoncide dont allows you to obtain the Victory.

I decided to Help Twilight Prince in this case because I think is possible to obtain the Victory without Sudden Death, but Im NOT sure about this and I think is very Hard to perform this trick.

I recently discovered in my Studies about this topic that you can DI the Ganoncide, I think all of you guys knew of this trick.

I made many Tests with many Characters and I got the Victory... In Sudden Death of course, but sufficient enough to me, Because through this, there must be some way to obtain the Victory in the NORMAL MATCH (Without Sudden Death). I think we need make the correct DI or something like that.

I will show an example of one test that drew me more attention, Is not a great thing, I got some Victories in my tests too.

Test Information:

Character Tested: Bowser
Stage: Hanenbow
Sudden Death: Yes
Victory: Yes
Ganoncide: With DI until Ganondorf Die.

I Believe there must be many things to be discovered about this Topic.


I hope all of you guys can Understand my little English... Take Care all !
 

SmashBrosForce

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
781
I recorded this right after reading this post, I hope it is helpful, if there's anything more you could use to give Ganon this help he so desperetaly needs, please let me know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqspGnTl_tQ
Nice Video Zhouten.

I think you show in your vid, that is probably impossible to Win with Ganoncide in normal matches.

Anyway... This discussion about that was solved dude =]

Thanks For your Help Zhouten !;)
 

TP

Smash Master
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Messages
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St. Louis, MO
I posted the video, along with my thoughts, in the SBR Ruleset discussion thread. We'll see how people respond.
 

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Canada, ON
What's up with the 4% damage?

And, could using Drift during the Ganoncide alter the orientation of the two characters? Like, does Ganon angle the opponent with the Drift, or are the two of you in a fixed structural relation that just translates left-to-right?
 

TP

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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What's up with the 4% damage?

And, could using Drift during the Ganoncide alter the orientation of the two characters? Like, does Ganon angle the opponent with the Drift, or are the two of you in a fixed structural relation that just translates left-to-right?
The 4% comes from a grab being broken by an external source. Same with regular grabs.

I don't know about the other thing. Feel free to test it yourself. :bee:
 

TP

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How's it going with this, by the way? Convinced anyone that matters yet?
After several days, zero people seem to have noticed my posts in the Rule List Discussion thread. I don't know where else to put it, unless I want to make a new thread somewhere. That thread would get locked because it belongs here...
 

:034:

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Netherlands
Post it in Tactical Discussion, PM some back roomers, etc etc

Basically just let your voice be heard. If you want to grab attention, be more obnoxious so people actually pay attention.

But not too much because then it'll backfire on you and you'll get into some crazy cult or something.

Not that I'm speaking out of experience or anything!



those god**** cults
 

TP

Smash Master
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PhantomX, use your mod connections. I don't know if you are in the SBR or not (too lazy to spend 5 seconds checking) but people will respond better if it comes from a source they respect.
 

•Col•

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
2,450
I disagree!

Here's our situation - both characters are at 1 stock, one Ganondorf and the other... Marth. Marth knocked Ganondorf off the stage and the Ganondorf player attempts to recover using his forward B (since this gives you less RCO frames, it's a good option).

Then we have the Marth, who JUMPS IN FRONT OF GANON (what did he want do? did he mess up a speedhug? C-stick not working? WHO KNOWS), gets grabbed and they plummet to their doom.

According to the rules, Ganondorf loses this match.


....wait, WHAT?

The Ganondorf player just lost a match because a player was dumb enough to just jump in front of him? Because of that? No amount of skill, not even a fair to make it seem like a gimp?
People jump out in front of Ike's Side B to try to gimp him all the time... >_> Yeah, it can be stupid, but meh... What can you do?


With a rule saying "Whenever Ganondorf uses his suicide move to bring the match to Sudden Death, Ganondorf loses" would bring an amazing amount of stupid gimps towards the Ganondorf player. A Ganondorf player would NEVER be able to use forward B to recover any more out of fear of getting gimped in a stupid way. So, we have to use up-b, which gives us more lag on landing - making it even easier to edgeguard an already easy to edgeguard character.
There IS a reason why Ganondorf is currently last on the tier list... *cough*

Now, what would happen if the rule were "Whenever Ganondorf uses his suicide move to bring the match to Sudden Death, Ganondorf wins"? My friends, nothing would happen. Wanna know why? This will cause people to simply stay away from standing near the edge, in fear of getting Ganoncided.

Hey wait a minute... Could it be... that...

PEOPLE ALREADY DO THIS?! (dun dun dunnn!)
Actually, knowing that Ganondorf loses whenever he suicides with you, I PURPOSELY jump in front of him if he's on his last stock. Actually, I'm MORE INCLINED to jump out after Ganondorf if he's on his last stock.

If he Side B's and grabs me to suicide, I win. If he tries to Up B, I just fair him on it's startup. :)

Now, with this rule, it simply requires competence and skill (on BOTH players accounts!) for something to come out. There's no gimp that consists of an opponent pushing the control stick to the side anymore, and Ganondorf players will more actively try to get themselves a Ganoncide. And I can tell you that getting a Ganoncide is really hard against a competent player (and often even a plain dumb choice).

Not to mention that you are simply plain wrong about the fact that the ruleset doesn't exist to buff certain characters. Let's look at the rule for Bowser: "If a game ends with Bowser doing his suicide klaw and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Bowser."
Yeah... If there was no such thing as port priority, Bowser would always win with his suicide.

And... Yeah... We obviously can't do this for Ganondorf... He'll be too good...

...

Really?
The rule wasn't put in place to make Bowser better, it was put into place so that a win/lose would be determined by which slot you plugged your controller into. -_-

You might argue "You can DI against Bowser's Klaw", but you forget that Bowser's is SO much easier to hit, being practically lag free, having a giant disjoint on it, you can hop around infinitely with and it deals 18%~ even if you don't suicide with it. It's also practically unpunishable.
Nah, I'm just gonna argue with the "win/lose based on which port you plug into" BS thing again.

Then look at Ganon's, a ****load of lag, 12%, easy to see coming, no disjoint, high startup and you go into helpless mode if you don't grab the ledge. It only has downsides? Well, it has upsides for recovery - snapping to the ledge straight away and it reduces RCO lag (important!). So it can actually be a pretty good recovery option.
Again.... There's a reason Ganondorf is last on the tier list...


To be completely honest, I HOPE these boards can prove that Ganondorf's suicide win/lose/sudden death is random... Ganondorf needs all the help he can get. :( He's really cool, and the people that still choose to main him are even cooler. xD
 

TP

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To be completely honest, I HOPE these boards can prove that Ganondorf's suicide win/lose/sudden death is random... Ganondorf needs all the help he can get.
We already did that. See the video Z1GMA posted and my posts in the Rule List Discussion thread.
 

:034:

Smash Hero
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Netherlands
I personally really believe that the SBR knocked Falcon up because he was used a couple times by really good players, making them go "Woah!", completely ignoring our tourney results and just dickriding good players. The people in the SBR, like everyone, is just biased.

Then again, I'm biased too :\/

:034:

EDIT @Colaya, I only just now saw your post because I basically can't be arsed... But good job not disproving any of my arguments
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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See but here's the thing, Falcon players, especially Ally, have won tournies with them.

I don't know if we've ever done better than top 4.

I mean, yeah, it's biased, but there is some reasoning.

(And Inui thinks he has the best Ganon, which doesn't exactly paint Ganon in the greatest light...)
 

@HomE

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See but here's the thing, Falcon players, especially Ally, have won tournies with them.

I don't know if we've ever done better than top 4.

I mean, yeah, it's biased, but there is some reasoning.

(And Inui thinks he has the best Ganon, which doesn't exactly paint Ganon in the greatest light...)
Several ganon's have won tournys... more then several have placed top 3
 

fromundaman

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Several ganon's have won tournys... more then several have placed top 3
oh, nevermind then.

I thought we only won online tournies then placed high in offline ones but never actually won. Oops. (Other than the Australian Ganon, who won those where his bro wasn't attending I think.)
 

B!squick

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I personally really believe that the SBR knocked Falcon up because he was used a couple times by really good players, making them go "Woah!", completely ignoring our tourney results and just dickriding good players. The people in the SBR, like everyone, is just biased.
SBR Member: DUDES! PT IS THE ****!
Rest of SBR: Huh?
SBR Member: *shoves a certain someone's tourny results in collective faces*
Rest of SBR: DUDE!
 

@HomE

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What the SBR thinks or says about Ganon means absolutly nothing to me, I know for a fact that I know more about Ganon then ANY of them. Therefore, having them tell me Ganon is garbage doesnt mean anything to me...

I mean i realize he is far from the best character in the game, but to have some "elite" panel, who knows nothing(in comparison to any well known Ganon main) about Ganon, tell me Ganon is now the worst in the game.... that just doesn't work for me..

DownBSpiked
 

Ray_Kalm

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As much as I hate the SBR myself, you guys are absolutely wrong. Ganon is the worst character in the game. It's funny how some of you are claiming to know more about Ganon than others, and yet fail to realize that he IS the least viable character that you could use in a tournament.
 

stRIP

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As much as I hate the SBR myself, you guys are absolutely wrong. Ganon is the worst character in the game. It's funny how some of you are claiming to know more about Ganon than others, and yet haven't realized that he IS the least viable character that you should use in a tournament.
qft

10quotedfortruth's
 

:034:

Smash Hero
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See but here's the thing, Falcon players, especially Ally, have won tournies with them.

I don't know if we've ever done better than top 4.

I mean, yeah, it's biased, but there is some reasoning.

(And Inui thinks he has the best Ganon, which doesn't exactly paint Ganon in the greatest light...)
Ant won tournies, we got top 4 plenty times... Hell, according to Ankoku's list we're higher than several characters in tourney results.

@Ray: I disagree. Simple as that.

:034:
 

@HomE

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Kalm your personal vendetta against Ganon has little to do with reality. I don’t really know why you are so adamant that Ganon MUST be the worst in the game. Frankly, your pessimistic/emo attitude towards Ganon is annoying to me, and I’m sure to others who want Ganon to improve as well.

If someone made a new account today and posted the SAME thing with a different account, they would be called a troll and flamed for coming to the Ganon boards and repeatedly claiming our char is the worst. Just because you are a well known member of the Ganon community does not grant you the right to trash talk our main…

Thanks
 

fromundaman

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TP showed me the light. Ganon's legit... at least against Bowser, lol.
And Ike!

Also, he isn't bad against Mario, Kirby, and a few others.

Still, if you main ganon, odds are, you'll need a second. Then again, that's the same for a lot of other characters.
 

Ray_Kalm

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Kalm your personal vendetta against Ganon has little to do with reality. I don’t really know why you are so adamant that Ganon MUST be the worst in the game. Frankly, your pessimistic/emo attitude towards Ganon is annoying to me, and I’m sure to others who want Ganon to improve as well.

If someone made a new account today and posted the SAME thing with a different account, they would be called a troll and flamed for coming to the Ganon boards and repeatedly claiming our char is the worst. Just because you are a well known member of the Ganon community does not grant you the right to trash talk our main…

Thanks
If I had a personal vendetta against Ganon, I wouldn't ever plan on using him in tournaments, nor anywhere else that takes this game seriously. I never said that Ganon won't improve, I'm simply stating that Ganon currently proves to be the least viable character in the game, due to a large number of factors.

The thing is, I'm not "repeatedly claiming" that Ganon is the worst. I think you're just taking the words "the worst" in a complete opposite direction.
 

@HomE

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If I had a personal vendetta against Ganon, I wouldn't ever plan on using him in tournaments, nor anywhere else that takes this game seriously. I never said that Ganon won't improve, I'm simply stating that Ganon currently proves to be the least viable character in the game, due to a large number of factors.

The thing is, I'm not "repeatedly claiming" that Ganon is the worst. I think you're just taking the words "the worst" in a complete opposite direction.
Well after reading your post I was convinced that I have no idea what the word "Worst" means, so i consulted my old friend... the dictionary, lets see what he had to say..


Worst:
–adjective, superl. of bad and ill.
1.bad or ill in the highest, greatest, or most extreme degree: the worst person.


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...



Caution: Wet Floor, this post is dripping with sarcasm..
 

Ray_Kalm

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Well after reading your post I was convinced that I have no idea what the word "Worst" means, so i consulted my old friend... the dictionary, lets see what he had to say..


Worst:
–adjective, superl. of bad and ill.
1.bad or ill in the highest, greatest, or most extreme degree: the worst person.


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...



Caution: Wet Floor, this post is dripping with sarcasm..
That's not much of a response.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
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Ganon is crap. We must accept that to begin with, if we wanna get somewhere.

I'd describe him as "The greatest opportunist in the game".
 

@HomE

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Its pretty hypocritical to respond to my post saying "thats not much of a respose" when you responded to my post with 6 words...
Ilol'd

Ill like go with FD on this one and just leave it with..

I disagree
 

qerkdtx

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Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!
 

Z1GMA

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Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!flame War! Flame War! Flame War!
Spam War! Spam War!
 
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