Ephraim was mentioned a bunch of times
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)
- Thread starter Anti Guy
- Start date
- Status
QuickRat
Smash Journeyman
It's never enough
ElPanandero
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,100
- NNID
- ElPanandero
.5 for Ephraim!
QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,300
Go on Brawl Vault, you can find tons. PSAs are nothing new.
looks pretty good actually i must say.
ElPanandero
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,100
- NNID
- ElPanandero
Yea, Ima download it until PM announces some new stuff
Solbliminal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2013
- Messages
- 2,275
- NNID
- Solbliminal
I don't believe Diskun even has a trophy or sticker in Brawl. But Diskun was definitely someone I would've suggested if he had appeared.
Propeller Toad
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 464
I'll give my vote in too:
Toad + 1
- With both Rosalina and Jr. in the new Smash, it really would be nice to have Toad in Project M. He would be fun to have and it would give something for us Toad fans who've wanted him since Melee.
Pichu + 1
- He's a Melee veteran and was one of my favourites as well. I'd love to see him back since Mewtwo and Roy are already back. Even the Pichu Bros would be fine.
Toad + 1
- With both Rosalina and Jr. in the new Smash, it really would be nice to have Toad in Project M. He would be fun to have and it would give something for us Toad fans who've wanted him since Melee.
Pichu + 1
- He's a Melee veteran and was one of my favourites as well. I'd love to see him back since Mewtwo and Roy are already back. Even the Pichu Bros would be fine.
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
PM should have Condor because Smash 4 got rid of the Ice Climbers.
They think noone cares about Ice Climber anymore
We'll show them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
They think noone cares about Ice Climber anymore
We'll show them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Solbliminal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2013
- Messages
- 2,275
- NNID
- Solbliminal
ElPanandero
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,100
- NNID
- ElPanandero
.5 for Condor
QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,300
-50 for Condor.
If Mashed Tomatos can downvote Birdo twice, I can downvote Condor as many times as I want.
If Mashed Tomatos can downvote Birdo twice, I can downvote Condor as many times as I want.
Last edited:
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2014
- Messages
- 66
To be honest I think it would be nice if there was a peer reviewed list of all the good custom characters, where people could rate them so you could see who the majority thought was best. I've tried looking at Brawlvault and it seems hard to tell what's the best; they let you see the number of downloads for each thing, but that doesn't really show whether it's actually high quality or if it was just hyped and the people who downloaded it deleted it if it turned out to not be good.
Just some place that corralled all the BrawlEX characters and had a poll that let you rate them all would be nice, that way the cream could rise to the top and you could pick out the best ones without dealing with the substandard ones.
Last edited:
Sour Supreme
サイマグネット
A lot of PSA's are broken.
Chihiro Fujisaki
Smash Journeyman
+.5 for condor, i already have a vote in for masked man
REVENGE FOR ICE CLIMBERS AND LUCAS, by that logic we should add krystal too
REVENGE FOR ICE CLIMBERS AND LUCAS, by that logic we should add krystal too
Last edited:
+1 Isaac
+1 Ephraim
+1 Hector
Isaac's Psynergy has so much potential for a moveset, and a lance-using FE character would be a nice change from all the swords. Hector because Hector (and again, axe instead of sword).
+1 Ephraim
+1 Hector
Isaac's Psynergy has so much potential for a moveset, and a lance-using FE character would be a nice change from all the swords. Hector because Hector (and again, axe instead of sword).
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2014
- Messages
- 66
Right, that's why it would be good to know which ones aren't broken. I imagine a broken one wouldn't rate high.
Shin F.
Smash Master
Alright, guys. You've been waiting patiently long enough for this, so it's about time we posted the new vote count. I'll also post the draft of the OP so you guys can look at it, but we'll need to wait for Anti Guy to have some time before the actual OP itself gets the updates. Without further ado:
(Spoilered for the sake of the page length)
(Spoilered for the sake of the page length)
434 unique voters.
Character: Total (+1, 0.5, -1, % Approval)
Top 5
Isaac: 207.5 (200, 39, 12, 95.22%)
Ridley: 154.5 (168, 43, 35, 85.77%)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 117 (144, 32, 43, 80.37%)
Lyn: 106 (115, 46, 32, 83.42%)
K Rool: 89.5 (80, 51, 16, 89.12%)
S-Tier (55+ total)
Dark Samus: 89 (87, 54, 25, 84.94%)
Skull Kid: 81.5 (65, 43, 5, 95.58%)
Saki: 65 (55, 38, 9, 91.18%)
Ray: 58.5 (44, 31, 1, 98.68%)
Sami: 56.5 (61, 23, 16, 84.00%)
A-Tier (30+ total)
Masked Man: 51.5 (41, 37, 8, 90.70%)
Sukapon: 51.5 (56, 43, 26, 79.20%)
Dixie Kong: 44 (55, 48, 35, 74.64%)
Paper Mario: 41.5 (40, 49, 23, 79.46%)
B-Tier (15+ total)
Tom Nook: 29 (30, 28, 15, 79.45%)
Andy: 28 (22, 32, 10, 84.38%)
Ninten: 26.5 (24, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Waluigi: 23 (47, 42, 45, 66.42%)
Samurai Goroh: 22 (17, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Takamaru: 19 (10, 18, 0, 100%)
Lip: 17.5 (11, 13, 0, 100%)
C-Tier (0+ total)
Tetra: 11.5 (18, 19, 16, 69.81%)
Pichu: 10.5 (68, 35, 75, 57.87%)
Hector: 9.5 (20, 25, 23, 66.18%)
Mach Rider: 7.5 (1, 13, 0, 100%)
Prince Sable: 7 (3, 8, 0, 100%)
Primid: 7 (7, 8, 4, 78.95%)
Ashley: 6.5 (2, 9, 0, 100%)
Rawk Hawk: 6.5 (1, 11, 0, 100%)
Slippy: 6 (7, 8, 5, 75.00%)
Leon: 5 (3, 6, 1, 90.00%)
Micaiah: 4 (3, 6, 2, 81.82%)
Balloon Fighter: 4.5 (1, 9, 1, 90.91%)
Toad: 3 (25, 26, 35, 59.30%)
Young Link: 1.5 (4, 5, 5, 64.29%)
D-Tier (0 and lower)
Pokemon Trainer: -2 (13, 6, 18, 51.35%)
Plusle and Minun: -2.5 (8, 7, 14, 51.72%)
Krystal: -3 (26, 34, 46, 56.60%)
Toon Zelda: -8.5 (8, 7, 20, 42.86%)
F-Tier (Bottom 5)
Gray Fox: -9 (5, 4, 16, 36.00%)
Liquid Snake: -9 (2, 2, 12, 25.00%)
Tails: -29.5 (22, 29, 66, 43.59%)
Knuckles: -41 (22, 16, 71, 34.86%)
Shadow: -55.5 (22, 15, 85, 30.33%)
Character: Total (+1, 0.5, -1, % Approval)
Top 5
Isaac: 207.5 (200, 39, 12, 95.22%)
Ridley: 154.5 (168, 43, 35, 85.77%)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 117 (144, 32, 43, 80.37%)
Lyn: 106 (115, 46, 32, 83.42%)
K Rool: 89.5 (80, 51, 16, 89.12%)
S-Tier (55+ total)
Dark Samus: 89 (87, 54, 25, 84.94%)
Skull Kid: 81.5 (65, 43, 5, 95.58%)
Saki: 65 (55, 38, 9, 91.18%)
Ray: 58.5 (44, 31, 1, 98.68%)
Sami: 56.5 (61, 23, 16, 84.00%)
A-Tier (30+ total)
Masked Man: 51.5 (41, 37, 8, 90.70%)
Sukapon: 51.5 (56, 43, 26, 79.20%)
Dixie Kong: 44 (55, 48, 35, 74.64%)
Paper Mario: 41.5 (40, 49, 23, 79.46%)
B-Tier (15+ total)
Tom Nook: 29 (30, 28, 15, 79.45%)
Andy: 28 (22, 32, 10, 84.38%)
Ninten: 26.5 (24, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Waluigi: 23 (47, 42, 45, 66.42%)
Samurai Goroh: 22 (17, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Takamaru: 19 (10, 18, 0, 100%)
Lip: 17.5 (11, 13, 0, 100%)
C-Tier (0+ total)
Tetra: 11.5 (18, 19, 16, 69.81%)
Pichu: 10.5 (68, 35, 75, 57.87%)
Hector: 9.5 (20, 25, 23, 66.18%)
Mach Rider: 7.5 (1, 13, 0, 100%)
Prince Sable: 7 (3, 8, 0, 100%)
Primid: 7 (7, 8, 4, 78.95%)
Ashley: 6.5 (2, 9, 0, 100%)
Rawk Hawk: 6.5 (1, 11, 0, 100%)
Slippy: 6 (7, 8, 5, 75.00%)
Leon: 5 (3, 6, 1, 90.00%)
Micaiah: 4 (3, 6, 2, 81.82%)
Balloon Fighter: 4.5 (1, 9, 1, 90.91%)
Toad: 3 (25, 26, 35, 59.30%)
Young Link: 1.5 (4, 5, 5, 64.29%)
D-Tier (0 and lower)
Pokemon Trainer: -2 (13, 6, 18, 51.35%)
Plusle and Minun: -2.5 (8, 7, 14, 51.72%)
Krystal: -3 (26, 34, 46, 56.60%)
Toon Zelda: -8.5 (8, 7, 20, 42.86%)
F-Tier (Bottom 5)
Gray Fox: -9 (5, 4, 16, 36.00%)
Liquid Snake: -9 (2, 2, 12, 25.00%)
Tails: -29.5 (22, 29, 66, 43.59%)
Knuckles: -41 (22, 16, 71, 34.86%)
Shadow: -55.5 (22, 15, 85, 30.33%)
Introduction
Some time ago, Anti Guy noticed a topic shift in the original thread for the newly revealed clone engine - what was originally conversation about the engine's implementation and limitations turned to character speculation, charged with colorful discussion. By popular request in that thread, Anti Guy starting this new thread to just discuss and publicly vote upon possible character choices, while leaving the original thread for discussing the clone engine itself. Furthermore, the OP in this thread can be kept updated so as not to turn into a endless repetitive cycle of arguments and lists because newcomers had not seen the information posted in the many pages previously (as seen in the former thread). As such, everyone is welcome to contribute their own information to be included on original post.
It should be noted, however, that after several months of monitoring this thread on his own, Anti Guy has passed down the responsibility of updating the OP and tracking the voting process to users JCOnyx, Shin F., Solbliminal, and Friesnchip. While Anti Guy is cooperating with these people, he is no longer tallying votes- for those of you who would like to place your votes, need any assistance, or have any questions, please refer to one of the people on this list.
Subjective vs. Objective
One of the main points to keep in mind when discussing a potential character is that there is a difference between who you want and who you like, and ultimately what most P:M players like and what will likely be happening. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but make sure you understand that stating your opinion is only for influencing others. If they're not convinced, then stop after you've stated all you need to say; we don't need back and forth flame wars. That's the subjective part.
The objective side of the argument is ultimately who's in favor of a character (after all the arguments have been said and done), and how much of the community is or would be behind that idea too. This should be the ultimate measuring stick for who'd be a good candidate for the PMBR to consider in future versions. Please try not to mix up your personal opinions when discussing the objective end of all this speculation. Data (i.e. polling) is your best friend here. Speaking of which...
Unofficial Polling (READ THE RULES)
So that we have better evidence of what the community is thinking, a tally of votes will be kept to debate which characters are most desired for the five remaining clone slots. The following are the voting rules:
1. Each unique poster can vote up to 5 characters. They will be tallied for 1 point each. Note: users may not change these five votes unless for some reason that character becomes disqualified. Pick your votes wisely. You don't need to use all your votes at once, you may always wait and add them in later.
2. Each unique poster can then vote for any number of characters after that. They will be tallied for 1/2 point each. The idea is that if you had to choose 5, you'd give more weight to those.
3. Each unique poster can down vote any number of characters. Only down vote if you're actually AGAINST the character being in. If you're indifferent, just don't vote on that character. This will be also be tallied on a separate count rather than subtracting against the up votes. This is to differentiate actual opposition from just indifference to a character. Note: From now on, it is required to give an explanation (it doesn't have to be long, it can be brief as long as it's reasonable) for all anti votes. Otherwise they won't be tallied. This is to try to keep things honest and not use these votes to play the numbers.
4. That means characters you're indifferent on... just don't vote. You can say if you're indifferent to the idea though, and we can tally that so we have a more complete picture.
This way we can have a good barometer on what the community is thinking. Because unlike SSB4, the PMBR is here and they might actually listen. And this game is for the community. So if a character is only attracting 50% popularity or less, it will probably not be worth the PMBR's effort.
Things to keep in mind:
1. Any quality character would take at least 700 hours to make, especially because of animations. That's why clones/partial clones are the most appealing. Despite a lot of people's distaste for clones, this seems to be huge pro for any character to be in P:M
2. P:M is not an official Smash. So characters that would not be possible for SSB Wii/3DS might just be possible in this game due to fan support and maybe the cloneability.
3. Adding a new character with the clone engine takes a ton of work, so they better be well worth the effort. For that reason, obscure characters that have no deserving reason to join the cast, or characters that are not as important as others in their ownseries (i.e. any random Sonic character that's not Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, or even Shadow).
4. This is a Nintendo game, so third party characters shouldn't be getting that much attention regardless (i.e. no need to have 3 Sonic characters). Also copyright/C&D issues. As stated by the P:M team: characters that haven't appeared in Brawl in some manner have no chance, so don't even mention them.
5. To avoid legal issues with Smash 4, Newcomers from that game (such as Little Mac and Palutena) will not be used for the Clone Engine.
6. According to P:M staff member cmart, current PSA's won't affect character chances because regardless, a character will be built up from scratch.
7. Please remember, this is a MOD. NOT SSB4. When you vote or make arguments for characters, realize there are limitations. PLEASE keep in mind the amount of work that it would take to make a character, and if it is even possible. Saying Character X can use so and so items from his game is counterproductive if that can't be done!
Rating the characters
There are 7 clone slots, two of which are already done with Roy and Mewtwo. It is important to remember the possibility that not all of them will be used, though. So with that said, below is a summarization of some of the characters that have been mentioned by at least more than one person, as well as a grading of how good a candidate they are for the P:M team. There are two categories and each with three grades (A-C):
Value - how much value do they have as a character, as a mascot, as an iconic character of their series, etc... Basically how much they deserve to be in Smash
A: Iconic character or brings a lot to the table
B: Fairly important character... or an iconic character, but in a saturated series (Pokémon, Mario).. or has some other minor flaw
C: Not very important
Effort - how much work would it take to make this character? Keep in mind that animations are probably the biggest part, so if borrowing animations is possible, that reduces the time. This rating is all estimated though...
A: As easy as can get. Pretty much a clone, or very simple animations. Having an established moveset helps too.
B: Will take some work and creativity. Significant animation work
C: Need to develop from scratch and take a ton of time. Is this even worth it??
The List of Clone Engine Candidates
![]()
Paper Mario (Paper Mario)
Like Game & Watch, but color
Toad (Super Mario)
Wants to be more than a B move
Waluigi (Mario Bros / Wario?)
WAAAHHH!! When will he appear in anything OTHER than a party game!?
Pichu (Pokémon)
Because he's a veteran
Pokémon Trainer / Red (Pokémon)
If he could fight on his own...
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
The only other Kong to have her own game
King K. Rool(Donkey Kong)
The main villain of Donkey Kong
Skull Kid (Legend of Zelda)
Recurring character and villain of Majora's Mask
Tetra (Legend of Zelda)
(Toon Zelda not included)
Toon Zelda (Legend of Zelda)
Apparently the lesser half
Young Link (Legend of Zelda)
Because every chain needs at least three Links
Black Shadow (F-Zero) and Ganondorf(Legend of Zelda)
A two-in-one package where the current Falcon-clone Ganondorf will be reskinned to his arch nemesis Black Shadow, and the clone slot will be used to recreate Ganondorf using available models
Samurai Goroh (F-Zero)
The second most popular F-Zero character.
Ridley (Metroid)
But he's too big!
Dark Samus (Metroid)
The other big Metroid villain
Krystal (Star Fox)
Because we need more Star Fox characters
Slippy Toad (Star Fox)
Fooox! Get this guy off of me!
Leon Powalski (Star Fox)
Star Wolf's Falco
Masked Man/Claus (Mother)
Which name would it be?
Ninten (Mother)
Isn't that Ness?
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
A popular female FE lord
Hector (Fire Emblem)
Can't mention Lyn without mentioning her axe-wielding comrade lord from the same game
Andy (Advance Wars)
For a more detailed explanation of Advance Wars and the characters, read ChronoBound's post here.
Sami (Advance Wars)
For a more detailed explanation of Advance Wars and the characters, read ChronoBound's post here.
Isaac (Golden Sun)
"..."
Ray MK III (Custom Robo)
From that overlooked series a lot of people know about, but most people never played.
Sukapon/Skapon (Joy Mech Fight)
The pink robot from Nintendo's first fighting game
Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)
The pinnacle of aerial fighters
Mach Rider (Mach Rider)
On his bike, or off it?
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
The guy who I always thought was a girl
Lip (Panel de Pon)
What would happen with Lip's Stick?
Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
The guy everyone thought would be in Smash 4 for sure
The Prince of Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
A swordsman with a twist
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
Everyone's favorite loan shark
Primid (Super Smash Bros.)
The Smash Rep we deserve, but not the one we need
NOTE: FOR THE SONIC AND METAL GEAR CHARACTERS LISTED BELOW...
Third party characters should have less importance in terms of the clone engine when compared to Nintendo characters. Keep that in mind.
Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Sonic's Luigi
Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog)
The Echidna
Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Because people keep bringing him up
Gray Fox (Metal Gear)
He wants to feel alive again
Liquid Snake (Metal Gear)
The 'inferior' twin
Most Recent and Past Results
The Format is as follows:
Name: Score (+1s, +1/2s, -1s, %)
Only characters with at least 10 votes (at least 5 must be positive votes) are included.
[/quote]
Some time ago, Anti Guy noticed a topic shift in the original thread for the newly revealed clone engine - what was originally conversation about the engine's implementation and limitations turned to character speculation, charged with colorful discussion. By popular request in that thread, Anti Guy starting this new thread to just discuss and publicly vote upon possible character choices, while leaving the original thread for discussing the clone engine itself. Furthermore, the OP in this thread can be kept updated so as not to turn into a endless repetitive cycle of arguments and lists because newcomers had not seen the information posted in the many pages previously (as seen in the former thread). As such, everyone is welcome to contribute their own information to be included on original post.
It should be noted, however, that after several months of monitoring this thread on his own, Anti Guy has passed down the responsibility of updating the OP and tracking the voting process to users JCOnyx, Shin F., Solbliminal, and Friesnchip. While Anti Guy is cooperating with these people, he is no longer tallying votes- for those of you who would like to place your votes, need any assistance, or have any questions, please refer to one of the people on this list.
Subjective vs. Objective
One of the main points to keep in mind when discussing a potential character is that there is a difference between who you want and who you like, and ultimately what most P:M players like and what will likely be happening. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but make sure you understand that stating your opinion is only for influencing others. If they're not convinced, then stop after you've stated all you need to say; we don't need back and forth flame wars. That's the subjective part.
The objective side of the argument is ultimately who's in favor of a character (after all the arguments have been said and done), and how much of the community is or would be behind that idea too. This should be the ultimate measuring stick for who'd be a good candidate for the PMBR to consider in future versions. Please try not to mix up your personal opinions when discussing the objective end of all this speculation. Data (i.e. polling) is your best friend here. Speaking of which...
Unofficial Polling (READ THE RULES)
So that we have better evidence of what the community is thinking, a tally of votes will be kept to debate which characters are most desired for the five remaining clone slots. The following are the voting rules:
1. Each unique poster can vote up to 5 characters. They will be tallied for 1 point each. Note: users may not change these five votes unless for some reason that character becomes disqualified. Pick your votes wisely. You don't need to use all your votes at once, you may always wait and add them in later.
2. Each unique poster can then vote for any number of characters after that. They will be tallied for 1/2 point each. The idea is that if you had to choose 5, you'd give more weight to those.
3. Each unique poster can down vote any number of characters. Only down vote if you're actually AGAINST the character being in. If you're indifferent, just don't vote on that character. This will be also be tallied on a separate count rather than subtracting against the up votes. This is to differentiate actual opposition from just indifference to a character. Note: From now on, it is required to give an explanation (it doesn't have to be long, it can be brief as long as it's reasonable) for all anti votes. Otherwise they won't be tallied. This is to try to keep things honest and not use these votes to play the numbers.
4. That means characters you're indifferent on... just don't vote. You can say if you're indifferent to the idea though, and we can tally that so we have a more complete picture.
This way we can have a good barometer on what the community is thinking. Because unlike SSB4, the PMBR is here and they might actually listen. And this game is for the community. So if a character is only attracting 50% popularity or less, it will probably not be worth the PMBR's effort.
Things to keep in mind:
1. Any quality character would take at least 700 hours to make, especially because of animations. That's why clones/partial clones are the most appealing. Despite a lot of people's distaste for clones, this seems to be huge pro for any character to be in P:M
2. P:M is not an official Smash. So characters that would not be possible for SSB Wii/3DS might just be possible in this game due to fan support and maybe the cloneability.
3. Adding a new character with the clone engine takes a ton of work, so they better be well worth the effort. For that reason, obscure characters that have no deserving reason to join the cast, or characters that are not as important as others in their ownseries (i.e. any random Sonic character that's not Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, or even Shadow).
4. This is a Nintendo game, so third party characters shouldn't be getting that much attention regardless (i.e. no need to have 3 Sonic characters). Also copyright/C&D issues. As stated by the P:M team: characters that haven't appeared in Brawl in some manner have no chance, so don't even mention them.
5. To avoid legal issues with Smash 4, Newcomers from that game (such as Little Mac and Palutena) will not be used for the Clone Engine.
6. According to P:M staff member cmart, current PSA's won't affect character chances because regardless, a character will be built up from scratch.
7. Please remember, this is a MOD. NOT SSB4. When you vote or make arguments for characters, realize there are limitations. PLEASE keep in mind the amount of work that it would take to make a character, and if it is even possible. Saying Character X can use so and so items from his game is counterproductive if that can't be done!
Rating the characters
There are 7 clone slots, two of which are already done with Roy and Mewtwo. It is important to remember the possibility that not all of them will be used, though. So with that said, below is a summarization of some of the characters that have been mentioned by at least more than one person, as well as a grading of how good a candidate they are for the P:M team. There are two categories and each with three grades (A-C):
Value - how much value do they have as a character, as a mascot, as an iconic character of their series, etc... Basically how much they deserve to be in Smash
A: Iconic character or brings a lot to the table
B: Fairly important character... or an iconic character, but in a saturated series (Pokémon, Mario).. or has some other minor flaw
C: Not very important
Effort - how much work would it take to make this character? Keep in mind that animations are probably the biggest part, so if borrowing animations is possible, that reduces the time. This rating is all estimated though...
A: As easy as can get. Pretty much a clone, or very simple animations. Having an established moveset helps too.
B: Will take some work and creativity. Significant animation work
C: Need to develop from scratch and take a ton of time. Is this even worth it??
The List of Clone Engine Candidates
Paper Mario (Paper Mario)
Like Game & Watch, but color
Value - B - Main character of the Paper Mario series. Is another version of Mario, who has quite a saturated series, but at the same time is different enough from Mario.
Effort - ? - Can be cloned off Mr. Game & Watch, but will also require a lot of his own moves.
We'll just send you to 820's post for this one:
Pros
-Can represent the Paper Mario series
-Cloneable from Mr. Game & Watch. Might be fairly simple to do.
Cons
-Yet another Mario character
-Might have technical limitations
Effort - ? - Can be cloned off Mr. Game & Watch, but will also require a lot of his own moves.
We'll just send you to 820's post for this one:
REASONS:
Paper Mario hasn't been a very popular suggestion so far, but he should be. He's been the star of four popular games, games that are extremely distinct from the rest of the Mario franchise. (If you changed the characters, you really wouldn't be able to tell it was ever a Mario game.) At this point, the Paper Mario series is it's own entity, much more so than the difference between Link vs. Toon Link. So really, Paper Mario would represent his own series. The only knock I can think of is, for people who believe he doesn't qualify for his own series, that the Mario series is "over-represented" , but that simply isn't true. Wario, Yoshi, and the Kongs all represent their own series, so Mario only has 4 true representatives. This, in comparison to the seven that Pokemon has, is reasonable. So he would still only be the fifth true Mario rep, which is a fairly small number for the largest franchise in the game.
BUILDING BASE/CREATION:
Paper Mario has a unique, 2D design that would make basing him of his plumper, 3D counterpart impossible. Luckily, we have our own 2D smasher that would serve as a perfect template: Mr. Game and Watch. In fact, it's almost eerie how well Paper Mario would work as a GW clone. I mean... does this remind you of anything?
![]()
Paper Mario could be a heavier, stronger Game and Watch, with quite a bit of variation in moves of course. There's already some pretty nice looking Paper Mario models over GW in the BrawlVault. The only real projectiles he would need could be easily based off of existing articles, like fireballs/fireflower effects
Plus his model wouldn't take too much work I'd imagine, and his animations would be somewhat limited due to the nature of his design.
GAMEPLAY:
As I touched on briefly, he could have some attacks based off of GW (mostly an hammer based attacks, and other attacks such as f-smash could be re-done with a hammer) as well as incorporate parts of Mario (fireballs with an upward arc a-la GW's frying pan? A mix of GW and Mario's up-smash?) Plus all of the items, attacks and helpers from his games. (Parakarry recovery? Bombette grenades?) I'm not sure what's entirely possible, but the PMBR has quite a bit to go off of from the games, and I'm sure they could create a unique but still technically feasible move-set.
CONCLUSION:
Paper Mario has the legacy, clone-ability, and uniqueness that makes him a better choice for Project M than many characters. The PMBR could realistically do him justice, and he has a definite place in Nintendo history that this incarnation would be worth it. Overall, I hope this post makes more people reconsider Paper Mario, as I believe he would be a fantastic addition to Project M.
Paper Mario hasn't been a very popular suggestion so far, but he should be. He's been the star of four popular games, games that are extremely distinct from the rest of the Mario franchise. (If you changed the characters, you really wouldn't be able to tell it was ever a Mario game.) At this point, the Paper Mario series is it's own entity, much more so than the difference between Link vs. Toon Link. So really, Paper Mario would represent his own series. The only knock I can think of is, for people who believe he doesn't qualify for his own series, that the Mario series is "over-represented" , but that simply isn't true. Wario, Yoshi, and the Kongs all represent their own series, so Mario only has 4 true representatives. This, in comparison to the seven that Pokemon has, is reasonable. So he would still only be the fifth true Mario rep, which is a fairly small number for the largest franchise in the game.
BUILDING BASE/CREATION:
Paper Mario has a unique, 2D design that would make basing him of his plumper, 3D counterpart impossible. Luckily, we have our own 2D smasher that would serve as a perfect template: Mr. Game and Watch. In fact, it's almost eerie how well Paper Mario would work as a GW clone. I mean... does this remind you of anything?
Plus his model wouldn't take too much work I'd imagine, and his animations would be somewhat limited due to the nature of his design.
GAMEPLAY:
As I touched on briefly, he could have some attacks based off of GW (mostly an hammer based attacks, and other attacks such as f-smash could be re-done with a hammer) as well as incorporate parts of Mario (fireballs with an upward arc a-la GW's frying pan? A mix of GW and Mario's up-smash?) Plus all of the items, attacks and helpers from his games. (Parakarry recovery? Bombette grenades?) I'm not sure what's entirely possible, but the PMBR has quite a bit to go off of from the games, and I'm sure they could create a unique but still technically feasible move-set.
CONCLUSION:
Paper Mario has the legacy, clone-ability, and uniqueness that makes him a better choice for Project M than many characters. The PMBR could realistically do him justice, and he has a definite place in Nintendo history that this incarnation would be worth it. Overall, I hope this post makes more people reconsider Paper Mario, as I believe he would be a fantastic addition to Project M.
Pros
-Can represent the Paper Mario series
-Cloneable from Mr. Game & Watch. Might be fairly simple to do.
Cons
-Yet another Mario character
-Might have technical limitations
Toad (Super Mario)
Wants to be more than a B move
Value - B - Classic Mario character that has either been just a typical member of his species or a major playable character.
Effort - B - Can possibly be a Mario clone.
Background - There is really no need to explain who Toad is. But as for his achievements, he was one of the playable main characters in SMB2, NSMB Wii, and the newly released Super Mario 3D World. He was also the sole primary character in Wario's Woods. There are probably others games as well, but you all get the point. One of the problems with Toad is also that he is quite generic. In NSMB Wii, he's one of two toads. But at the same, that hasn't stopped Yoshi much, either? The main issue with Toad is that he's already Peach's B move. It is unknown if he's going to be a character in SSB4, but given his role as Peach's B move there again, it's unlikely. For Project M though, it might not matter as much because Peach's B move can always be reassigned (or she can flash out Toadsworth instead).
Moveset - Most likely can be a clone of Mario, with some different specials, and a few different smash attacks that can involve using his massive head instead. See here for more.
Pros
-Major Mario character
-Cloneable
-Has a sizeable support/fanbase
-Easy to port sounds for
Cons
-Another Mario character
-Generic Mario species that's not really a unique character of his own at times.
Effort - B - Can possibly be a Mario clone.
Background - There is really no need to explain who Toad is. But as for his achievements, he was one of the playable main characters in SMB2, NSMB Wii, and the newly released Super Mario 3D World. He was also the sole primary character in Wario's Woods. There are probably others games as well, but you all get the point. One of the problems with Toad is also that he is quite generic. In NSMB Wii, he's one of two toads. But at the same, that hasn't stopped Yoshi much, either? The main issue with Toad is that he's already Peach's B move. It is unknown if he's going to be a character in SSB4, but given his role as Peach's B move there again, it's unlikely. For Project M though, it might not matter as much because Peach's B move can always be reassigned (or she can flash out Toadsworth instead).
Moveset - Most likely can be a clone of Mario, with some different specials, and a few different smash attacks that can involve using his massive head instead. See here for more.
Pros
-Major Mario character
-Cloneable
-Has a sizeable support/fanbase
-Easy to port sounds for
Cons
-Another Mario character
-Generic Mario species that's not really a unique character of his own at times.
Waluigi (Mario Bros / Wario?)
WAAAHHH!! When will he appear in anything OTHER than a party game!?
Value - C - Never the main character of any game, the main villain of any game, or even a major supporting character of any game... but WAAAHH!!
Effort - B - There has been an excellent PSA made. If that can be done, the PMBR can do it too.
Background - Everyone knows who this character is, yet he's easily one of the most divisive characters for speculation, and for what it's worth, that's a big con. It's not to the PMBR's benefit to spend a lot of time working on a character that at most half of the community would enjoy. HOWEVER, Waluigi has been getting a lot of work done outside of the PMBR, by Marioking64 (see his videos) and KingJigglypuff, and that can be used as somewhat of an inspiration for a moveset.
Pros
-Has one of the most developed PSA's out there that can be used for inspiration -- Check this out!
-Adds a little completion to the roster to give Wario a counterpart
Cons
-Very divisive character
-Does not have any major role in the Mario games to earn him a spot
Effort - B - There has been an excellent PSA made. If that can be done, the PMBR can do it too.
Background - Everyone knows who this character is, yet he's easily one of the most divisive characters for speculation, and for what it's worth, that's a big con. It's not to the PMBR's benefit to spend a lot of time working on a character that at most half of the community would enjoy. HOWEVER, Waluigi has been getting a lot of work done outside of the PMBR, by Marioking64 (see his videos) and KingJigglypuff, and that can be used as somewhat of an inspiration for a moveset.
Pros
-Has one of the most developed PSA's out there that can be used for inspiration -- Check this out!
-Adds a little completion to the roster to give Wario a counterpart
Cons
-Very divisive character
-Does not have any major role in the Mario games to earn him a spot
Pichu (Pokémon)
Because he's a veteran
Value - C - As more and more Pokémon get added, Pichu's value drops and drops.
Effort - A - Pichu already has an established moveset to work off of from Melee, and he is very similar to Pikachu.
Background/Reasons: The only other Melee clone still in contention. He is a melee veteran, and can (definitely) use a moveset overhaul, but unlike Roy and Mewtwo, there has never been a huge demand for his return to Brawl. But now that Roy and Mewtwo are out of the bag, some people have been getting more vocal in wanting him back. Another main argument against him is that he's in a super-saturated series, which after Mewtwo has SEVEN characters. A big question to consider is if it's worth the PMBR's time... "What will everyone's reaction be if we announce Pichu? 'Oh, great, Pichu -- the last clone I wanted,' would be the majority, and we just spent 700 goddamn hours making this fur ball." One thing is for sure; Pichu is very controversial.
Moveset - His moveset would be based on his one from Melee, duh. But it'd probably be revamped to be much better while still having the self-injuring electrical attacks.
Pros
-Straightforward to make
-Melee veteran
-Unique gimmick lets PMBR be creative with making the character actually viable
Cons
-Extremely controversial
-Seven slots are already used for Pokémon series.
Effort - A - Pichu already has an established moveset to work off of from Melee, and he is very similar to Pikachu.
Background/Reasons: The only other Melee clone still in contention. He is a melee veteran, and can (definitely) use a moveset overhaul, but unlike Roy and Mewtwo, there has never been a huge demand for his return to Brawl. But now that Roy and Mewtwo are out of the bag, some people have been getting more vocal in wanting him back. Another main argument against him is that he's in a super-saturated series, which after Mewtwo has SEVEN characters. A big question to consider is if it's worth the PMBR's time... "What will everyone's reaction be if we announce Pichu? 'Oh, great, Pichu -- the last clone I wanted,' would be the majority, and we just spent 700 goddamn hours making this fur ball." One thing is for sure; Pichu is very controversial.
Moveset - His moveset would be based on his one from Melee, duh. But it'd probably be revamped to be much better while still having the self-injuring electrical attacks.
Pros
-Straightforward to make
-Melee veteran
-Unique gimmick lets PMBR be creative with making the character actually viable
Cons
-Extremely controversial
-Seven slots are already used for Pokémon series.
Pokémon Trainer / Red (Pokémon)
If he could fight on his own...
Value - A/B - Brawl character and Pokémon protagonist that couldn't make the cut for Project M 3.0
Effort - C - Would need to be made from scratch
Background - Ever since the PT Pokémon were split up and made their own characters, the Pokémon Trainer has been nowhere to be seen. Some have called for his return to P:M as his own fighter. Some people may think that's how it should've always been -- the trainer himself fighting.
Moveset - His moveset would probably be a very basic puncher/kicker, but with specials unique to what he could do in Pokémon. Maybe throw rocks from the Safari Zone, or ride his bicycle (stealing Wario's move). One of the best options would be for him to throw a Poke ball (the item) -- the only problem with that is that it's probably too strong and that there's crazy variance to the Pokémon that come out.
Pros
-Technically already in Brawl, but needs to make a comeback in P:M
Cons
-The few things special to PT might be limited by what's available to the modders.
-Seven slots are already used for Pokémon series.
Effort - C - Would need to be made from scratch
Background - Ever since the PT Pokémon were split up and made their own characters, the Pokémon Trainer has been nowhere to be seen. Some have called for his return to P:M as his own fighter. Some people may think that's how it should've always been -- the trainer himself fighting.
Moveset - His moveset would probably be a very basic puncher/kicker, but with specials unique to what he could do in Pokémon. Maybe throw rocks from the Safari Zone, or ride his bicycle (stealing Wario's move). One of the best options would be for him to throw a Poke ball (the item) -- the only problem with that is that it's probably too strong and that there's crazy variance to the Pokémon that come out.
Pros
-Technically already in Brawl, but needs to make a comeback in P:M
Cons
-The few things special to PT might be limited by what's available to the modders.
-Seven slots are already used for Pokémon series.
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
The only other Kong to have her own game
Value - A - Multiple appearances, had her own game. DK series has a small roster.
Effort - A - Can be cloned off Diddy with a few changes to incorporate her ponytail.
Background - For those who didn't know, she was the secondary character in Donkey Kong Country 2 and then the main character in Donkey Kong Country 3. The only other DK character that has a legitimate spot for contention is King K. Rool. The big problem with him is that he's not really cloneable and should require his own moveset. On the side of less work, and Dixie has been a more popular choice.
Moveset - Her moveset would be cloned off Diddy, but many of her moves would involve her hair. The biggest question is if that's even possible to throw in these extra "limbs" for her and still make things work.
Pros
-Major DK character
-Cloneable (From Diddy)
-Lots of support from fans
Cons
-Difficult to animate her prehensile ponytail
Effort - A - Can be cloned off Diddy with a few changes to incorporate her ponytail.
Background - For those who didn't know, she was the secondary character in Donkey Kong Country 2 and then the main character in Donkey Kong Country 3. The only other DK character that has a legitimate spot for contention is King K. Rool. The big problem with him is that he's not really cloneable and should require his own moveset. On the side of less work, and Dixie has been a more popular choice.
Moveset - Her moveset would be cloned off Diddy, but many of her moves would involve her hair. The biggest question is if that's even possible to throw in these extra "limbs" for her and still make things work.
Pros
-Major DK character
-Cloneable (From Diddy)
-Lots of support from fans
Cons
-Difficult to animate her prehensile ponytail
King K. Rool(Donkey Kong)
The main villain of Donkey Kong
Value - A - Main villain of the DK series. Quite popular
Effort - C - Has a bunch of unique moves that would require some serious work
Background - King K. Rool is the main antagonist of Donkey Kong series, often going by different names and themes (Kaptain K. Rool, Baron K. Roolenstein, King Krusha K. Rool, etc.), so he's quite versatile and of course, quite a major character.
Moveset - It's been suggested that K. Rool can use Dedede as a base. However, Dedede is a little too unique for K. Rool, starting with the floating and the hammer. While K. Rool has used a blunderbuss, it does not work at all like a hammer. It's been suggested that he can toss Kremlings instead of Waddle Dees, but that seems far-fetched. K. Rool has a whole host of unique moves, including shooting cannonballs, using his blunderbuss as a jet, and throwing his crown, to name a few. Unfortunately, these moves could be too unique to be implemented in a mod.
Pros
-Major DK villain
Cons
Very unique moveset that is very difficult to implement
Effort - C - Has a bunch of unique moves that would require some serious work
Background - King K. Rool is the main antagonist of Donkey Kong series, often going by different names and themes (Kaptain K. Rool, Baron K. Roolenstein, King Krusha K. Rool, etc.), so he's quite versatile and of course, quite a major character.
Moveset - It's been suggested that K. Rool can use Dedede as a base. However, Dedede is a little too unique for K. Rool, starting with the floating and the hammer. While K. Rool has used a blunderbuss, it does not work at all like a hammer. It's been suggested that he can toss Kremlings instead of Waddle Dees, but that seems far-fetched. K. Rool has a whole host of unique moves, including shooting cannonballs, using his blunderbuss as a jet, and throwing his crown, to name a few. Unfortunately, these moves could be too unique to be implemented in a mod.
Pros
-Major DK villain
Cons
Very unique moveset that is very difficult to implement
Skull Kid (Legend of Zelda)
Recurring character and villain of Majora's Mask
Value - B - Appeared as the main enemy in one Zelda game, and appeared in two others (Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess)
Effort - C - Not a clone, so will need to be made completely from scratch.
Background - While Majora's Mask is getting older and older, it still remains a popular fan favorite. Now that Young Link is probably out of the picture, no one in the lineup represents MM in particular. Skull Kid was brought up because he's one of the few Zelda characters that appears in multiple games and has the distinction of being the main villain.
Moveset - His moveset would be mostly left up to interpretation. It would be a trickster-styled moveset though, with warping around and possibly using dummies borrowed from his TP incarnation. Whether or not he can use his mask to attack or grab is up to the limitations of what the animators can do.
Pros
-Fairly popular
-Has the potential for pretty distinctive gameplay compared to other characters
Cons
-We already have quite a few Zelda characters in the roster already
-Will need to be made from scratch, probably with voice work too.
Effort - C - Not a clone, so will need to be made completely from scratch.
Background - While Majora's Mask is getting older and older, it still remains a popular fan favorite. Now that Young Link is probably out of the picture, no one in the lineup represents MM in particular. Skull Kid was brought up because he's one of the few Zelda characters that appears in multiple games and has the distinction of being the main villain.
Moveset - His moveset would be mostly left up to interpretation. It would be a trickster-styled moveset though, with warping around and possibly using dummies borrowed from his TP incarnation. Whether or not he can use his mask to attack or grab is up to the limitations of what the animators can do.
Pros
-Fairly popular
-Has the potential for pretty distinctive gameplay compared to other characters
Cons
-We already have quite a few Zelda characters in the roster already
-Will need to be made from scratch, probably with voice work too.
Tetra (Legend of Zelda)
(Toon Zelda not included)
Value - A/B - Major character in the Wind Waker timeline of Zelda
Effort - B - Can be made somewhat clone-like.
Background - Tetra appeared in a bunch of games, including Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Four Swords Adventures. Note that this entry is just for Tetra alone. If she were to be combined with Toon Zelda, then that would be two separate slots. You're free to vote for Toon Zelda too, but realize that fact, and don't combine them into one vote.
Moveset - Her moveset can probably be based off Sheik and/or Toon Link. She'd definitely have bombs, and then she can add other piratey things or even steal a few unused weapons from Link like a grappling hook.
Pros
-Fairly popular
-Major Zelda character
-Can benefit from cloning a bunch of moves from Toon Link
Cons
-We already have quite a few Zelda characters in the roster already
-If together with Toon Zelda, would take up two slots
Effort - B - Can be made somewhat clone-like.
Background - Tetra appeared in a bunch of games, including Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Four Swords Adventures. Note that this entry is just for Tetra alone. If she were to be combined with Toon Zelda, then that would be two separate slots. You're free to vote for Toon Zelda too, but realize that fact, and don't combine them into one vote.
Moveset - Her moveset can probably be based off Sheik and/or Toon Link. She'd definitely have bombs, and then she can add other piratey things or even steal a few unused weapons from Link like a grappling hook.
Pros
-Fairly popular
-Major Zelda character
-Can benefit from cloning a bunch of moves from Toon Link
Cons
-We already have quite a few Zelda characters in the roster already
-If together with Toon Zelda, would take up two slots
Toon Zelda (Legend of Zelda)
Apparently the lesser half
Value - B - A major character, but one that already exists in another form. Also from a well-repped series.
Effort - A - Can be a direct Clone of Zelda with modified size and properties.
Background - The other half to Tetra, and sometimes her own character, Toon Zelda has appeared in numerous games - even as Link's companion for Spirit Tracks. Note that this is only the entry for Toon Zelda, not Tetra. These character would take two slots together, so they must be voted for individually.
Moveset - Toon Zelda can easily be a clone of Zelda with only modified sizes and properties, although she may require a new down special if she's not paired with Tetra.
Pros
An easy clone
Major character in The Legend of Zelda series
Could be paired with the more unique Tetra
Cons
From a well-repped series
May require two slots if paired with Tetra
Effort - A - Can be a direct Clone of Zelda with modified size and properties.
Background - The other half to Tetra, and sometimes her own character, Toon Zelda has appeared in numerous games - even as Link's companion for Spirit Tracks. Note that this is only the entry for Toon Zelda, not Tetra. These character would take two slots together, so they must be voted for individually.
Moveset - Toon Zelda can easily be a clone of Zelda with only modified sizes and properties, although she may require a new down special if she's not paired with Tetra.
Pros
An easy clone
Major character in The Legend of Zelda series
Could be paired with the more unique Tetra
Cons
From a well-repped series
May require two slots if paired with Tetra
Young Link (Legend of Zelda)
Because every chain needs at least three Links
Value - C - There are already two Links in the game.
Effort - A - His moveset can be a super-easy clone of either existing Link.
Background - The younger variation of the protagonist of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. A veteran of the Smash series who was replaced by his spiritual successor, Toon Link.
Moveset - His moveset can easily be cloned from Link or Toon Link. Thoughts on how to separate him have included changing the properties of his arrows (Ice Arrows, or possibly cycling through Fire/Ice/Light), and having him make use of his masks from Majora's Mask. The problem with the latter idea is that transforming characters require multiple slots. This could be gotten around if the masks only provided stat changes and not new movesets entirely.
Pros
A Melee veteran
Would need relatively little work
Has voice and sounds effects already made
Cons
Already has a spiritual successor in Toon Link
Two variations of Link already exist
Effort - A - His moveset can be a super-easy clone of either existing Link.
Background - The younger variation of the protagonist of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. A veteran of the Smash series who was replaced by his spiritual successor, Toon Link.
Moveset - His moveset can easily be cloned from Link or Toon Link. Thoughts on how to separate him have included changing the properties of his arrows (Ice Arrows, or possibly cycling through Fire/Ice/Light), and having him make use of his masks from Majora's Mask. The problem with the latter idea is that transforming characters require multiple slots. This could be gotten around if the masks only provided stat changes and not new movesets entirely.
Pros
A Melee veteran
Would need relatively little work
Has voice and sounds effects already made
Cons
Already has a spiritual successor in Toon Link
Two variations of Link already exist
Black Shadow (F-Zero) and Ganondorf(Legend of Zelda)
A two-in-one package where the current Falcon-clone Ganondorf will be reskinned to his arch nemesis Black Shadow, and the clone slot will be used to recreate Ganondorf using available models
Value - A - Many people have wanted a true-to-Ganondorf Ganondorf, and while not as many, people have also asked for more F-Zero representation.
Effort - B - Ganondorf will need all new animations and projectiles.
Black Shadow - Black Shadow is Captain Falcon's arch nemesis, first appearing in F-Zero X. F-Zero is actually a pretty sizeable franchise, with at least 5 games, more than Star Fox (3 characters) and Mother (2 characters), yet it only has 1 character. If it were to have another, there are 3 main candidates: Samurai Goroh (Falcon's rival from the very first game), Blood Falcon (his clone), and Black Shadow. Samurai Goroh would require a little more work. Blood Falcon is already a costume for Falcon, and he doesn't add much. Black Shadow, on the other hand, fits the villain role, and due to his dark and evil character, perfectly fits the playstyle of the current Ganondorf, down to the shadow side-effects. And of course, he's significant in the story.
Ganondorf - Fans of the series have been disappointed at Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon because that is not how his character works in the Zelda games. While Captain Falcon has never been seen outside his car (allowing the developers to be creative with his moveset), Ganondorf HAS. He's either using magic (OoT) or swords (WW, TP) when fighting Link.
In general, the most opposed to this idea are players who like Ganondorf just the way he is and can't see him in any other form (despite him being much different in his actual games)
Moveset - Ganondorf would probably have to have a combination of attacks borrowed from other characters. The most common move requested is his electric ball attack from OoT (neutral B - chargeable like in the game). Like Zelda, the rest of his moves can be creative. Perhaps a down B could be a chargeable attack where he raises his fist in front of his face, charges, and then releases a blast from the the Triforce of Power, knocking everyone in a radius back. Otherwise, he's a character with a lot of room for creativity.
Pros
-Relatively easy to implement - part of it is just a texture reskinning, the other part is using a fully established model and giving it a new moveset and animations.
-Can rectify one of the most complained about clone implementations
-Gives F-Zero a much needed character
Cons
-Resistance to changing Ganondorf from fans of his current moveset.
-Will have to create Ganondorf moveset from scratch. He has some established moves to be used for inspiration.
Effort - B - Ganondorf will need all new animations and projectiles.
Black Shadow - Black Shadow is Captain Falcon's arch nemesis, first appearing in F-Zero X. F-Zero is actually a pretty sizeable franchise, with at least 5 games, more than Star Fox (3 characters) and Mother (2 characters), yet it only has 1 character. If it were to have another, there are 3 main candidates: Samurai Goroh (Falcon's rival from the very first game), Blood Falcon (his clone), and Black Shadow. Samurai Goroh would require a little more work. Blood Falcon is already a costume for Falcon, and he doesn't add much. Black Shadow, on the other hand, fits the villain role, and due to his dark and evil character, perfectly fits the playstyle of the current Ganondorf, down to the shadow side-effects. And of course, he's significant in the story.
Ganondorf - Fans of the series have been disappointed at Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon because that is not how his character works in the Zelda games. While Captain Falcon has never been seen outside his car (allowing the developers to be creative with his moveset), Ganondorf HAS. He's either using magic (OoT) or swords (WW, TP) when fighting Link.
In general, the most opposed to this idea are players who like Ganondorf just the way he is and can't see him in any other form (despite him being much different in his actual games)
Moveset - Ganondorf would probably have to have a combination of attacks borrowed from other characters. The most common move requested is his electric ball attack from OoT (neutral B - chargeable like in the game). Like Zelda, the rest of his moves can be creative. Perhaps a down B could be a chargeable attack where he raises his fist in front of his face, charges, and then releases a blast from the the Triforce of Power, knocking everyone in a radius back. Otherwise, he's a character with a lot of room for creativity.
Pros
-Relatively easy to implement - part of it is just a texture reskinning, the other part is using a fully established model and giving it a new moveset and animations.
-Can rectify one of the most complained about clone implementations
-Gives F-Zero a much needed character
Cons
-Resistance to changing Ganondorf from fans of his current moveset.
-Will have to create Ganondorf moveset from scratch. He has some established moves to be used for inspiration.
Samurai Goroh (F-Zero)
The second most popular F-Zero character.
Value - A - F-Zero is quite a large franchise, and it only has one character. Samurai Goroh is the second most recognizable character from the series.
Effort - ? - Depends on whether he is a reskinned Ganondorf or a separate character
Background - Samurai Goroh is the second most popular F-Zero character, hands down. He was one of the four original racers, and as the series develops, he gets a lot of screen time as one of Falcon's many rivals. In Brawl, he appears as an assist trophy, where he attacks with his katana. In the game, he's very proficient with a katana. It might also be hinted he might be into sumo, given his Japanese theme, his body size, and how he slaps the signature screen (yes, his hand is his signature) during one of his victory interviews.
Moveset - Goroh has at least two routes. One route is that we can take the Black Shadow / Ganondorf ticket above and replace Black Shadow with Goroh. The shadowy effects could be replaced with flame effects (he does drive the Fire Stingray). Punches can be swapped with sumo-like palm strikes. His katana can be used to replace some punches (like the Warlock Punch or his smash attack). Going into dangerous territory, the B forward can replaced by a samurai quick slash, borrowed from Ike's quick slash side B, though the attack properties would also have to change.
Alternatively, Goroh can be a fresh character with clone elements. So perhaps a unique character with some borrowed sword attacks, coupled with his own brawling attacks... Here is an example of a moveset for him from later in this thread
Pros
-Most popular character (outside of Captain Falcon) from a large franchise with only one character
-Can be a "Captain Ganondorf" replacement so that Ganondorf can get his own moveset.
-Appears in the Brawl intro, but never actually got to fight
Cons
-As a separate character, would take a lot of work
-As a Captain Ganondorf replacement, does not fit as well as Black Shadow.
Effort - ? - Depends on whether he is a reskinned Ganondorf or a separate character
Background - Samurai Goroh is the second most popular F-Zero character, hands down. He was one of the four original racers, and as the series develops, he gets a lot of screen time as one of Falcon's many rivals. In Brawl, he appears as an assist trophy, where he attacks with his katana. In the game, he's very proficient with a katana. It might also be hinted he might be into sumo, given his Japanese theme, his body size, and how he slaps the signature screen (yes, his hand is his signature) during one of his victory interviews.
Moveset - Goroh has at least two routes. One route is that we can take the Black Shadow / Ganondorf ticket above and replace Black Shadow with Goroh. The shadowy effects could be replaced with flame effects (he does drive the Fire Stingray). Punches can be swapped with sumo-like palm strikes. His katana can be used to replace some punches (like the Warlock Punch or his smash attack). Going into dangerous territory, the B forward can replaced by a samurai quick slash, borrowed from Ike's quick slash side B, though the attack properties would also have to change.
Alternatively, Goroh can be a fresh character with clone elements. So perhaps a unique character with some borrowed sword attacks, coupled with his own brawling attacks... Here is an example of a moveset for him from later in this thread
Pros
-Most popular character (outside of Captain Falcon) from a large franchise with only one character
-Can be a "Captain Ganondorf" replacement so that Ganondorf can get his own moveset.
-Appears in the Brawl intro, but never actually got to fight
Cons
-As a separate character, would take a lot of work
-As a Captain Ganondorf replacement, does not fit as well as Black Shadow.
Ridley (Metroid)
But he's too big!
Value - A - Fits the villain role for the Metroid series, which isn't oversaturated either.
Effort - B - Has a model in game... but he's gonna be a lot smaller. There's quite a bit of custom PSA work which can be used for some inspiration, at least.
Background/Reasoning - First of all, the size argument is quite often used against Ridley, however Captain Olimar and Bowser are examples of characters that have had their sizes changed drastically. Ridley has been shown to be only slightly larger than Samus at times, so shrinking him is a possibility. Anyway, Ridley is a recurring boss in the Metroid series, and is the most frequent and recognized enemy in the series. Most people here know who Ridley is. After all, he is a boss in Brawl too... Oh yeah, and he just happens to be one of the most requested characters ever since the Brawl speculation days.
Moveset - The moveset would have to be pretty unique, but many of the moves can borrow inspiration from his boss fight moves (obviously scaled down). The PSA linked above gives an example of one way it can be done.
Pros
-Incredibly strong fit, already in Brawl
-Extremely popular
Cons
-Some people still think he's too big
-Difficult model and animations. PSA's have been done though, so it's possible.
-Moveset from scratch
Effort - B - Has a model in game... but he's gonna be a lot smaller. There's quite a bit of custom PSA work which can be used for some inspiration, at least.
Background/Reasoning - First of all, the size argument is quite often used against Ridley, however Captain Olimar and Bowser are examples of characters that have had their sizes changed drastically. Ridley has been shown to be only slightly larger than Samus at times, so shrinking him is a possibility. Anyway, Ridley is a recurring boss in the Metroid series, and is the most frequent and recognized enemy in the series. Most people here know who Ridley is. After all, he is a boss in Brawl too... Oh yeah, and he just happens to be one of the most requested characters ever since the Brawl speculation days.
Moveset - The moveset would have to be pretty unique, but many of the moves can borrow inspiration from his boss fight moves (obviously scaled down). The PSA linked above gives an example of one way it can be done.
Pros
-Incredibly strong fit, already in Brawl
-Extremely popular
Cons
-Some people still think he's too big
-Difficult model and animations. PSA's have been done though, so it's possible.
-Moveset from scratch
Dark Samus (Metroid)
The other big Metroid villain
Value - A - Probably most significant character in the franchise after Samus and Ridley, being the main antagonist of the Metroid Prime series.
Effort - A - Very clone-like. Many animations can be reused. Also some PSA work done that can be used as an example.
Background - If Ridley doesn't get in, then Dark Samus is an excellent alternative for franchise villain. While she isn't in most of the games like Ridley, she was at least the main protagonist for the largely successful Metroid Prime series (and unlike many other characters that have been suggested, she lasts through multiple games).
Moveset - She can share many animations with Samus, but also has her own unique moves. She'd also be a very fast character (in contrast to Samus' slower playstyle), considering how she zips everywhere when you fight against her. Some animation changes can include making her move like Mewtwo (floating), as well as rolling like Mewtwo (disappearing and reappearing). Likewise, her projectiles would probably be weak scattershot Phazon attacks, in contrast to Samus' heavy-hitting ones. In general, her projectiles will probably be more energy-based rather than physical missiles like Samus'.
Here's an example of a Dark Samus PSA:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2L-3cZLsY
Pros
-Super cloneable. Very easy to make a faster version of Samus
-Little issue acquiring sound clips
-Popular choice
Cons
-Inferior choice to Ridley as a reoccurring representative (but much more doable)
Effort - A - Very clone-like. Many animations can be reused. Also some PSA work done that can be used as an example.
Background - If Ridley doesn't get in, then Dark Samus is an excellent alternative for franchise villain. While she isn't in most of the games like Ridley, she was at least the main protagonist for the largely successful Metroid Prime series (and unlike many other characters that have been suggested, she lasts through multiple games).
Moveset - She can share many animations with Samus, but also has her own unique moves. She'd also be a very fast character (in contrast to Samus' slower playstyle), considering how she zips everywhere when you fight against her. Some animation changes can include making her move like Mewtwo (floating), as well as rolling like Mewtwo (disappearing and reappearing). Likewise, her projectiles would probably be weak scattershot Phazon attacks, in contrast to Samus' heavy-hitting ones. In general, her projectiles will probably be more energy-based rather than physical missiles like Samus'.
Here's an example of a Dark Samus PSA:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2L-3cZLsY
Pros
-Super cloneable. Very easy to make a faster version of Samus
-Little issue acquiring sound clips
-Popular choice
Cons
-Inferior choice to Ridley as a reoccurring representative (but much more doable)
Krystal (Star Fox)
Because we need more Star Fox characters
Value - C - First appeared in a not-very popular Star Fox game during the series' slide
Effort - C - Would require her own moveset... unless you want ANOTHER clone.
Background - Krystal is frequently brought up as a character that deserves a slot. She's a supporting character in a handful of Starfox games, yet in P:M the series already has one teammate (Falco) and one rival (Wolf). However, should would sport an entirely different playstyle than her series' compatriots, which is something to be considered.
Pros
-Uses different weapons
-Female diversity?
Cons
-Supporting character of a saturated franchise in P:M
-Featured in Starfox titles of lower sales and popularity
-Would need a lot of work from models and animations to moveset to sounds
Effort - C - Would require her own moveset... unless you want ANOTHER clone.
Background - Krystal is frequently brought up as a character that deserves a slot. She's a supporting character in a handful of Starfox games, yet in P:M the series already has one teammate (Falco) and one rival (Wolf). However, should would sport an entirely different playstyle than her series' compatriots, which is something to be considered.
Pros
-Uses different weapons
-Female diversity?
Cons
-Supporting character of a saturated franchise in P:M
-Featured in Starfox titles of lower sales and popularity
-Would need a lot of work from models and animations to moveset to sounds
Slippy Toad (Star Fox)
Fooox! Get this guy off of me!
Value - C - A fourth character in a series that's well-repped, and he's a supporting character at best.
Effort - A - An incredibly easy clone.
Background - The technician of the Star Fox team, a large number of Star Fox's weapons and devices were invented by this toad.
Moveset - A clone of Fox or Falco with more Luigi-like physics is one possibility, but it's also been noted that he could make a convincing Samus or Snake clone.
Pros
Very simple to create his moveset
Possible clone of multiple characters
Might be an interesting variation on Samus or Snake
Cons
A supporting character in a saturated series
Might be yet another variation of the Star Fox moveset. How many do we need?
Effort - A - An incredibly easy clone.
Background - The technician of the Star Fox team, a large number of Star Fox's weapons and devices were invented by this toad.
Moveset - A clone of Fox or Falco with more Luigi-like physics is one possibility, but it's also been noted that he could make a convincing Samus or Snake clone.
Pros
Very simple to create his moveset
Possible clone of multiple characters
Might be an interesting variation on Samus or Snake
Cons
A supporting character in a saturated series
Might be yet another variation of the Star Fox moveset. How many do we need?
Leon Powalski (Star Fox)
Star Wolf's Falco
Value - C - A supporting character from a saturated series.
Effort - B - Can be partially cloned from Wolf, but may require some new moves.
Background - An assassin and a member of Star Wolf who apparently has an old rivalry with Falco.
Moveset - He can be cloned in many ways from Wolf, but it's generally agreed that he could easily be Luigified into his own character. One well-received idea is that, being a Chameleon, he could make use of Brawl's invisibility (from Clear Brawl) in his moveset.
Pros
An interesting and unique idea centering on his invisibility and assassin skills
Many sources to pull voice work and sound effects from
Cons
A supporting character in a saturated series.
Effort - B - Can be partially cloned from Wolf, but may require some new moves.
Background - An assassin and a member of Star Wolf who apparently has an old rivalry with Falco.
Moveset - He can be cloned in many ways from Wolf, but it's generally agreed that he could easily be Luigified into his own character. One well-received idea is that, being a Chameleon, he could make use of Brawl's invisibility (from Clear Brawl) in his moveset.
Pros
An interesting and unique idea centering on his invisibility and assassin skills
Many sources to pull voice work and sound effects from
Cons
A supporting character in a saturated series.
Masked Man/Claus (Mother)
Which name would it be?
Value - C - Another Mother character and a walking spoiler
Effort - A/B - Would obviously be cloned from Lucas
Discussion - http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...-thread-voting-results-updated.341479/page-28
Background - Claus, or the Masked Man, is one of the primary antagonists from Mother 3, and also (SPOILERS!) Lucas' brainwashed brother. His very existence would be a spoiler, and Sheik is often used as a counterargument to that. A counter-counter argument to that is Sheik, while an important character, her alternate identity isn't crucial to the story, while Claus' is. And then another argument to that is that it's pretty obvious the Masked Man is Claus. Whatever.
Moveset - Would probably be heavily based off of Lucas, and if possible, incorporating his cannon arm and sword (forward smash instead of the stick) would be bonuses.
Pros
-Easily cloneable
-Should remain silent, just like in the game. Makes sounds easy, at least as far as voices go.
Cons
-For a small series, Mother already has enough representation
-Walking spoiler
Effort - A/B - Would obviously be cloned from Lucas
Discussion - http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...-thread-voting-results-updated.341479/page-28
Background - Claus, or the Masked Man, is one of the primary antagonists from Mother 3, and also (SPOILERS!) Lucas' brainwashed brother. His very existence would be a spoiler, and Sheik is often used as a counterargument to that. A counter-counter argument to that is Sheik, while an important character, her alternate identity isn't crucial to the story, while Claus' is. And then another argument to that is that it's pretty obvious the Masked Man is Claus. Whatever.
Moveset - Would probably be heavily based off of Lucas, and if possible, incorporating his cannon arm and sword (forward smash instead of the stick) would be bonuses.
Pros
-Easily cloneable
-Should remain silent, just like in the game. Makes sounds easy, at least as far as voices go.
Cons
-For a small series, Mother already has enough representation
-Walking spoiler
Ninten (Mother)
Isn't that Ness?
Value - B/C - Important to his own series, but the series is well-repped.
Effort - A/B - Could be an easy clone, or fairly original, depending on how he's handled. Model is an easy edit of Ness.
Background - The protagonist of the first game of the Mother series.
Moveset - Ninten's possibilities are pretty flexible. He can serve as either a direct clone of Ness and Lucas with small alterations to make him more unique, or as an entirely original character. One common idea brought up to make him unique is to have his attacks focus more on his weapons rather than his PSI, primarily his yoyo. He can also use PSI not yet used by Ness or Lucas, including PSI Quick Up, 4th-D Slip, Hypnosis, PK Beam, and PK Brain Cyclone. For more info on how this could be implemented, you can see this post. http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...results-3-15-14.341479/page-291#post-16518709
Pros
An important character for his series, rounds out the protagonist trio
Very flexible moveset possibilities - Could be cloned, luigified or original
Can be a hybrid clone of Ness and Lucas, since attacks and animations between the two are easy to port to one another, with his own unique divergences
Cons
From a well-repped series
Effort - A/B - Could be an easy clone, or fairly original, depending on how he's handled. Model is an easy edit of Ness.
Background - The protagonist of the first game of the Mother series.
Moveset - Ninten's possibilities are pretty flexible. He can serve as either a direct clone of Ness and Lucas with small alterations to make him more unique, or as an entirely original character. One common idea brought up to make him unique is to have his attacks focus more on his weapons rather than his PSI, primarily his yoyo. He can also use PSI not yet used by Ness or Lucas, including PSI Quick Up, 4th-D Slip, Hypnosis, PK Beam, and PK Brain Cyclone. For more info on how this could be implemented, you can see this post. http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...results-3-15-14.341479/page-291#post-16518709
Pros
An important character for his series, rounds out the protagonist trio
Very flexible moveset possibilities - Could be cloned, luigified or original
Can be a hybrid clone of Ness and Lucas, since attacks and animations between the two are easy to port to one another, with his own unique divergences
Cons
From a well-repped series
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
A popular female FE lord
Value - B - Another sword user in a highly represented series (Fire Emblem). However, fairly popular, and is one of the top candidates if FE were to get another character, if not the top choice
Effort - C - Will need new animations.
Background - While not the main character of the US's first Fire Emblem game (that goes to Eliwood), Lyn is the first lord you get to play, and she's pretty popular. She also has a unique sword-style that can make her different than all the sword users. Also a bow user, so we might be able to vary her moveset up a bit.
Moveset - See here.
Pros
-One of the most popular FE lords
-Unique sword style differentiates her from other FE lords
-Female - diversity FTW
Cons
-Will require quite of bit of work, including custom sound effects
-Moveset must be designed from scratch.
-Yet another sword user
-Already have 3 Fire Emblem characters, and one of the clone spots goes to a FE character already
Effort - C - Will need new animations.
Background - While not the main character of the US's first Fire Emblem game (that goes to Eliwood), Lyn is the first lord you get to play, and she's pretty popular. She also has a unique sword-style that can make her different than all the sword users. Also a bow user, so we might be able to vary her moveset up a bit.
Moveset - See here.
Pros
-One of the most popular FE lords
-Unique sword style differentiates her from other FE lords
-Female - diversity FTW
Cons
-Will require quite of bit of work, including custom sound effects
-Moveset must be designed from scratch.
-Yet another sword user
-Already have 3 Fire Emblem characters, and one of the clone spots goes to a FE character already
Hector (Fire Emblem)
Can't mention Lyn without mentioning her axe-wielding comrade lord from the same game
Value - C - Lyn is generally more popular. Eliwood is the main character, Lyn is the first lord, but Hector (while being the third lord) is probably the third main character and requires his mode to be unlocked. While still extremely important in his own game, in the broad scope of Smash Bros and all that is Nintendo, he's not that important.
Effort - C - From scratch, completely.
Background/Reason - The third lord of Fire Emblem (the Sealed Sword). You don't actually get to play his storyline - you unlock his mode after beating the game. There are two main reasons people want him: 1) "He has an axe!" (making him different than other characters) and 2) "He's my favorite lord!" (I'm not kidding). They are actually quite legit, but compared to the other applications here, they kind of pale in comparison. He doesn't have an assist trophy, and his moveset would be have to be even more built up from nothing. His main competition is Lyn, and that's a tough one to beat.
Pros
-The AXE
Cons
-Inferior to Lyn in terms of iconic weight/importance and possibly popularity
-Not very popular outside of Fire Emblem
-Will require a lot of work
-Already 3 Fire Emblem characters
-Moveset must be designed from scratch.
Effort - C - From scratch, completely.
Background/Reason - The third lord of Fire Emblem (the Sealed Sword). You don't actually get to play his storyline - you unlock his mode after beating the game. There are two main reasons people want him: 1) "He has an axe!" (making him different than other characters) and 2) "He's my favorite lord!" (I'm not kidding). They are actually quite legit, but compared to the other applications here, they kind of pale in comparison. He doesn't have an assist trophy, and his moveset would be have to be even more built up from nothing. His main competition is Lyn, and that's a tough one to beat.
Pros
-The AXE
Cons
-Inferior to Lyn in terms of iconic weight/importance and possibly popularity
-Not very popular outside of Fire Emblem
-Will require a lot of work
-Already 3 Fire Emblem characters
-Moveset must be designed from scratch.
Andy (Advance Wars)
For a more detailed explanation of Advance Wars and the characters, read ChronoBound's post here.
Value - A - Most recurrent protagonist of an unrepresented major series (like Marth and Ike for Fire Emblem)
Effort - C - Would probably need to be made from scratch.
Background - Advance Wars is probably the biggest franchise without representation in Smash Bros. and Andy is the only main character to appear more than once (unlike Jake and Will, the two other protagonists). In Advance Wars, armies are commanded by COs, who have special powers and stat boosts for their armies. You pick your CO much like you pick your fighter in a fighting game. Initially, you start with Andy, Max, and Sami (from the same country, Orange Star) in the first game, with Andy being your initial character. In the first game, he is easily the main character, seen as a naive character whose idiocy exists mainly to give you a tutorial of the units and buildings. He has no special strengths or weaknesses (much like Mario), but he is a genius mechanic, and his special ability is to repair all the units on the field and give them a little boost.
Moveset - Being a commanding officer in an army game, some of Snake's moves may be a natural fit for Andy, although it makes more sense for him to fight using a wrench. Just like Captain Falcon doesn't really use the Blue Falcon and Fox doesn't use his Arwing, Andy doesn't necessarily have to use Advance Wars units.
Pros
-Would represent the largest franchise that isn't represented in Smash Bros
Cons
-Would need a lot of model work
-Would need custom sound effects
-Needs a lot of work to create from scratch
Effort - C - Would probably need to be made from scratch.
Background - Advance Wars is probably the biggest franchise without representation in Smash Bros. and Andy is the only main character to appear more than once (unlike Jake and Will, the two other protagonists). In Advance Wars, armies are commanded by COs, who have special powers and stat boosts for their armies. You pick your CO much like you pick your fighter in a fighting game. Initially, you start with Andy, Max, and Sami (from the same country, Orange Star) in the first game, with Andy being your initial character. In the first game, he is easily the main character, seen as a naive character whose idiocy exists mainly to give you a tutorial of the units and buildings. He has no special strengths or weaknesses (much like Mario), but he is a genius mechanic, and his special ability is to repair all the units on the field and give them a little boost.
Moveset - Being a commanding officer in an army game, some of Snake's moves may be a natural fit for Andy, although it makes more sense for him to fight using a wrench. Just like Captain Falcon doesn't really use the Blue Falcon and Fox doesn't use his Arwing, Andy doesn't necessarily have to use Advance Wars units.
Pros
-Would represent the largest franchise that isn't represented in Smash Bros
Cons
-Would need a lot of model work
-Would need custom sound effects
-Needs a lot of work to create from scratch
Sami (Advance Wars)
For a more detailed explanation of Advance Wars and the characters, read ChronoBound's post here.
Value - C - Secondary character of an unrepresented major series
Effort - A - Can be a Snake clone
Background - Sami is one of the Orange Star CO's in Advance War. A few missions into the first game, you get to choose a path where you either get to use her or Max for a few missions. She, along with the other characters, get larger roles in the sequels, where one of her main storylines is a hinted romance between her and a CO from Green Earth (another country), Eagle. Her main specialty is in infantry units. While her vehicles are weaker, her infantry are stronger, and more efficient, making her very adept at capturing cities very quickly...
Moveset - Given her infantry focus, Sami lends herself very much to being a clone of Snake. Although the Cipher might be a little weird, the other attacks can be easily translated and cloned.
Pros
-Would represent the largest franchise that isn't represented in Smash Bros
-Easily Snake cloneable
Cons
-Is a secondary character to a franchise that isn't even represented by its main character yet
-Would need a lot of model work
-Would need custom sound effects
Effort - A - Can be a Snake clone
Background - Sami is one of the Orange Star CO's in Advance War. A few missions into the first game, you get to choose a path where you either get to use her or Max for a few missions. She, along with the other characters, get larger roles in the sequels, where one of her main storylines is a hinted romance between her and a CO from Green Earth (another country), Eagle. Her main specialty is in infantry units. While her vehicles are weaker, her infantry are stronger, and more efficient, making her very adept at capturing cities very quickly...
Moveset - Given her infantry focus, Sami lends herself very much to being a clone of Snake. Although the Cipher might be a little weird, the other attacks can be easily translated and cloned.
Pros
-Would represent the largest franchise that isn't represented in Smash Bros
-Easily Snake cloneable
Cons
-Is a secondary character to a franchise that isn't even represented by its main character yet
-Would need a lot of model work
-Would need custom sound effects
Isaac (Golden Sun)
"..."
Value - A - Original protagonist of a popular Nintendo RPG and another fairly big franchise that is unrepresented.
Effort - C - Assist trophy model already exists at least
Background - The main character of Golden Sun, one of the main Nintendo RPG franchises, developed by Camelot. It has three games, with Isaac appearing in each one. Felix, who was the second main character in GS2, also has been requested, but there is absolutely no reason for him to be put in before Isaac -- unless the PMBR decide to put BOTH of them in (Felix as a clone). Isaac has seniority.
Moveset - Movesets with him can be pretty creative and based on his Psynergy abilities. Given that he mainly used swords in his game, that's pretty inevitable, but again he can have some kicks thrown in.
Pros
-Very strong fit.
-Represents a major unrepresented franchise
-The most popular character and least divisive
Cons
-Uses swords, but his moveset can be mixed up with Psynergy.
-Many Psynergy attacks may be difficult, if not impossible, to implement
Effort - C - Assist trophy model already exists at least
Background - The main character of Golden Sun, one of the main Nintendo RPG franchises, developed by Camelot. It has three games, with Isaac appearing in each one. Felix, who was the second main character in GS2, also has been requested, but there is absolutely no reason for him to be put in before Isaac -- unless the PMBR decide to put BOTH of them in (Felix as a clone). Isaac has seniority.
Moveset - Movesets with him can be pretty creative and based on his Psynergy abilities. Given that he mainly used swords in his game, that's pretty inevitable, but again he can have some kicks thrown in.
Pros
-Very strong fit.
-Represents a major unrepresented franchise
-The most popular character and least divisive
Cons
-Uses swords, but his moveset can be mixed up with Psynergy.
-Many Psynergy attacks may be difficult, if not impossible, to implement
Ray MK III (Custom Robo)
From that overlooked series a lot of people know about, but most people never played.
Value - A - Unrepped character from a series with five games, built already under an arena fighter setting.
Effort - B - Almost all of his animations can be built from existing character animations, but would require programming for certain unique moves.
Background - Custom Robo is a series often overlooked, but very much remembered by those who were active in the gaming community around the time of the Nintendo Gamecube's US release. Though the series had a late start across seas, the series has existed in Japan since the N64 days. The series was an underground hit, loved for its unique battle system and customization. In the story, the main character of each game at the beginning receives a Ray model Custom Robo to start out with as your standard model. These Custom Robos are used to compete in arena battles against others, often to earn new parts and Robos to customize and change your strategy to fit your play style. The battles are long range, tactical gun fights where players must use the stage to plan out their attacks wisely. Each Robo is armed with four special parts. Guns, Bombs, Legs, and Pods.
Unlike many gun combat based games, each of these types of parts (or weapons) contain vastly different properties from what you would expect. The Guns, as your primary weapon, all have unique properties in the way that they are used. Some Guns fire tri-shots that spread and lock in on opponents, others fire dragons and swords to emit explosive or piercing damage. The bombs are usually used for a high damaging move that is hard to pull off. Legs are to determine the type of mobility your Robo will have. And lastly, Pods are used as tactical placement items that often is used to control spacing with you and your opponent. Among these options, a lot of Custom Robos are able to air-dash, high-speed tackle a nearby enemy, and launch opponents.
Moveset - With a wide array of weapon types, Ray is best suited as a character built from someone with a lot of projectiles (Link, Samus, Snake, ect). Since he is nearly a pure range based fighter, almost all of his animations would be easy to build from existing characters, while still containing unique gameplay to set him apart from the cast. His projectiles will have different properties that will make his combos dependent on range rather than being up close. The trade-off being that he would struggle if he is caught in close range encounters.
Some moveset ideas here:
Pros
-Most recognized character of an unrepresented major series
-Inspiration could be pulled from the many weapons within the Custom Robo series for his moveset
-Need more robots
Cons
-Possibly too projectile heavy for the clone engine
Effort - B - Almost all of his animations can be built from existing character animations, but would require programming for certain unique moves.
Background - Custom Robo is a series often overlooked, but very much remembered by those who were active in the gaming community around the time of the Nintendo Gamecube's US release. Though the series had a late start across seas, the series has existed in Japan since the N64 days. The series was an underground hit, loved for its unique battle system and customization. In the story, the main character of each game at the beginning receives a Ray model Custom Robo to start out with as your standard model. These Custom Robos are used to compete in arena battles against others, often to earn new parts and Robos to customize and change your strategy to fit your play style. The battles are long range, tactical gun fights where players must use the stage to plan out their attacks wisely. Each Robo is armed with four special parts. Guns, Bombs, Legs, and Pods.
Unlike many gun combat based games, each of these types of parts (or weapons) contain vastly different properties from what you would expect. The Guns, as your primary weapon, all have unique properties in the way that they are used. Some Guns fire tri-shots that spread and lock in on opponents, others fire dragons and swords to emit explosive or piercing damage. The bombs are usually used for a high damaging move that is hard to pull off. Legs are to determine the type of mobility your Robo will have. And lastly, Pods are used as tactical placement items that often is used to control spacing with you and your opponent. Among these options, a lot of Custom Robos are able to air-dash, high-speed tackle a nearby enemy, and launch opponents.
Moveset - With a wide array of weapon types, Ray is best suited as a character built from someone with a lot of projectiles (Link, Samus, Snake, ect). Since he is nearly a pure range based fighter, almost all of his animations would be easy to build from existing characters, while still containing unique gameplay to set him apart from the cast. His projectiles will have different properties that will make his combos dependent on range rather than being up close. The trade-off being that he would struggle if he is caught in close range encounters.
Some moveset ideas here:
Pros
-Most recognized character of an unrepresented major series
-Inspiration could be pulled from the many weapons within the Custom Robo series for his moveset
-Need more robots
Cons
-Possibly too projectile heavy for the clone engine
Sukapon/Skapon (Joy Mech Fight)
The pink robot from Nintendo's first fighting game
Value - B - One of the Nintendo's few games to be represented in Smash, and it also happens to be Nintendo's first fighting game. Has a lot of game-introducing power to those unfamiliar with the game, similar to Ness, Marth/Roy, Ice Climbers, and Game & Watch.
Effort - C - Easy model, but difficult unique animations and skeletal structure (updated from Silentd00m and cmart)
Background - Joy Mech Fight was Nintendo's first traditional fighting game... but unfortunately it was one of those games that A) never made it to the US and B) came at the end of a console's lifespan (often a death sentence). The game itself played like Street Fighter II controls-wise, and all the robots had no joints, allowing it to be smooth even on the NES. Its storyline was a super rip-off from Mega Man, with an evil scientist making robots go crazy, and the good doc brings a non-combat robot, Skapon (whose main job is to entertain as a comedian) to fight and save the day. But given that the PMBR won't add Mega Man for copyright reasons, the rip-off is almost poetic if Skapon is added in lieu of Mega Man's absence.
Moveset - Skapon's moveset would be based on the moveset in his own game. It even helps that Joy Mech Fight has special moves, which he can base his off of. He doesn't have any true projectiles, but in the game he has two attacks (tondekee and konnan irahen) where he shoots his head forward. Another attack is where he launches himself forward in a rolling attack (rolling Skapon). The rest of his attacks are simple punches and kicks, and they can pretty much be borrowed from most of the current characters. Another oddity is that his walking animation is him spinning around (kind of like Rob's roll)
For a more detailed post on Skapon: see here
Pros
-Untouched franchise that can pay homage to Nintendo's first fighting game and also has the ability to expose players (like how many of us learned about Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Fire Emblem, Game & Watch, and more)
-Existing moveset from his original game to base moves off of
-Fitting Mega Man "replacement" (in spirit)
-Easy sounds effects
Cons
-Difficult animations
-Not very well known
-Joy Mech Fight is relatively obscure, Japanese only, and only has one game.
Effort - C - Easy model, but difficult unique animations and skeletal structure (updated from Silentd00m and cmart)
Background - Joy Mech Fight was Nintendo's first traditional fighting game... but unfortunately it was one of those games that A) never made it to the US and B) came at the end of a console's lifespan (often a death sentence). The game itself played like Street Fighter II controls-wise, and all the robots had no joints, allowing it to be smooth even on the NES. Its storyline was a super rip-off from Mega Man, with an evil scientist making robots go crazy, and the good doc brings a non-combat robot, Skapon (whose main job is to entertain as a comedian) to fight and save the day. But given that the PMBR won't add Mega Man for copyright reasons, the rip-off is almost poetic if Skapon is added in lieu of Mega Man's absence.
Moveset - Skapon's moveset would be based on the moveset in his own game. It even helps that Joy Mech Fight has special moves, which he can base his off of. He doesn't have any true projectiles, but in the game he has two attacks (tondekee and konnan irahen) where he shoots his head forward. Another attack is where he launches himself forward in a rolling attack (rolling Skapon). The rest of his attacks are simple punches and kicks, and they can pretty much be borrowed from most of the current characters. Another oddity is that his walking animation is him spinning around (kind of like Rob's roll)
For a more detailed post on Skapon: see here
Pros
-Untouched franchise that can pay homage to Nintendo's first fighting game and also has the ability to expose players (like how many of us learned about Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Fire Emblem, Game & Watch, and more)
-Existing moveset from his original game to base moves off of
-Fitting Mega Man "replacement" (in spirit)
-Easy sounds effects
Cons
-Difficult animations
-Not very well known
-Joy Mech Fight is relatively obscure, Japanese only, and only has one game.
Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)
The pinnacle of aerial fighters
Value - B - Main character of an unrepresented franchise unlikely to get into future Smash games.
Effort - C+ - Would likely require his own unique moveset, although some normals using his limbs to attack could be borrowed from others.
Background - The titular character of Balloon Fight, it's rumored that he was considered as a retro fighter for Melee but was passed over in favor of the Ice Climbers.
Moveset - Many of his normal attacks can be cloned from other characters of similar stature, such as Mario or Luigi. His special moves may require a bit more effort. One idea that is fairly popular but incredibly complex or even impossible to code is that he might be able to change the number of balloons he uses at any given time to change his weight, floatiness and number of jumps. The more balloons, the more floaty and greater jumps. The fewer, the faster he falls. this dynamic would allow players to choose between good recovery and good combo game.
Pros
Main character of a retro franchise
Was reportedly considered for Melee
No voice work needed
Cons
Very complex moveset
May need sound effects
Effort - C+ - Would likely require his own unique moveset, although some normals using his limbs to attack could be borrowed from others.
Background - The titular character of Balloon Fight, it's rumored that he was considered as a retro fighter for Melee but was passed over in favor of the Ice Climbers.
Moveset - Many of his normal attacks can be cloned from other characters of similar stature, such as Mario or Luigi. His special moves may require a bit more effort. One idea that is fairly popular but incredibly complex or even impossible to code is that he might be able to change the number of balloons he uses at any given time to change his weight, floatiness and number of jumps. The more balloons, the more floaty and greater jumps. The fewer, the faster he falls. this dynamic would allow players to choose between good recovery and good combo game.
Pros
Main character of a retro franchise
Was reportedly considered for Melee
No voice work needed
Cons
Very complex moveset
May need sound effects
Mach Rider (Mach Rider)
On his bike, or off it?
Value - B - The main character of Mach Rider, it's rumored that he was considered for Melee along with Balloon Fighter but lost out to Ice Climbers.
Effort - B - Could possibly be cloned from Captain Falcon or Wario.
Background - Another character who was rumored to be considered for Melee, he apparently was not chosen because there were problems getting him to be able to believably jump while riding his bike.
Moveset - There are a few ideas. One idea is that he could possibly be a Captain Falcon clone, since the two are racers never seen not riding their vehicles in their original game. another was to make him a clone of vBrawl's Wario, which would allow him a side-special with his bike and could still allow him to borrow animations from Captain Falcon. There has also been an idea to give him a chain in his moveset which he could use like a whip, possibly making him a Zero Suit Samus clone as well.
Pros
The main character of an unrepresented franchise
Considered for Melee
Many moveset possibilities, both cloned and unique
Cons
Could be hard to animate if he's permanently on his bike
Effort - B - Could possibly be cloned from Captain Falcon or Wario.
Background - Another character who was rumored to be considered for Melee, he apparently was not chosen because there were problems getting him to be able to believably jump while riding his bike.
Moveset - There are a few ideas. One idea is that he could possibly be a Captain Falcon clone, since the two are racers never seen not riding their vehicles in their original game. another was to make him a clone of vBrawl's Wario, which would allow him a side-special with his bike and could still allow him to borrow animations from Captain Falcon. There has also been an idea to give him a chain in his moveset which he could use like a whip, possibly making him a Zero Suit Samus clone as well.
Pros
The main character of an unrepresented franchise
Considered for Melee
Many moveset possibilities, both cloned and unique
Cons
Could be hard to animate if he's permanently on his bike
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
The guy who I always thought was a girl
Value - A - Main character of a franchise with two games
Effort - C - Would require his own moveset.
Background - The main character of Sin and Punishment, originally a Japanese-exclusive on rails shooter game before it was brought over to the US by virtual console and then got its own sequel.
Moveset - He uses a lot of shooting and sword attacks... Animation-wise, this might actually be fairly hard to pull off, since there's no character that has a gun and sword in one weapon like Saki does. See here for more discussion on Saki's moveset. Currently the best line of thought is using ZSS as a base.
Pros
-Main character of a franchise with two games
-Very popular and commonly requested
Cons
-Very complex moveset that might be hard to pull off
Effort - C - Would require his own moveset.
Background - The main character of Sin and Punishment, originally a Japanese-exclusive on rails shooter game before it was brought over to the US by virtual console and then got its own sequel.
Moveset - He uses a lot of shooting and sword attacks... Animation-wise, this might actually be fairly hard to pull off, since there's no character that has a gun and sword in one weapon like Saki does. See here for more discussion on Saki's moveset. Currently the best line of thought is using ZSS as a base.
Pros
-Main character of a franchise with two games
-Very popular and commonly requested
Cons
-Very complex moveset that might be hard to pull off
Lip (Panel de Pon)
What would happen with Lip's Stick?
Value - B - Main character of an unrepped franchise, traditionally popular as a choice for Smash.
Effort - C - Might require her own unique moveset
Background - The main character of Panel de Pon, a puzzle game, Lip has been referenced for the past two Smash games in the form of her weapon as an item, Lip's Stick.
Moveset - The main idea behind Lip's moveset is that she would use her stick for most of her attacks, but her specials may reference the puzzle blocks from her games or others.
Pros
From an unrepped series
Cons
Would require a unique moveset
Effort - C - Might require her own unique moveset
Background - The main character of Panel de Pon, a puzzle game, Lip has been referenced for the past two Smash games in the form of her weapon as an item, Lip's Stick.
Moveset - The main idea behind Lip's moveset is that she would use her stick for most of her attacks, but her specials may reference the puzzle blocks from her games or others.
Pros
From an unrepped series
Cons
Would require a unique moveset
Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
The guy everyone thought would be in Smash 4 for sure
Value - B - The main character of an unrepped franchise that has seen increasing interest in recent years.
Effort - A - Can be cloned from a number of characters.
Background - The main character of The Mysterious Murasame Castle, he's also made appearances in recent games such as Captain Rainbow and Nintendoland. Notably, his game has recently seen its first ever official release for Western audiences.
Moveset - HIs moveset would revolve around the use of his katana and the unique power-ups from his game. For details, we'll send to to bksbestbwoy's posts.
http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-412#post-17023785
http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-477#post-17361465
Pros
A retro character that has seen a lot of popularity due to his recent appearances
Could possibly have a good base in one of the other sword users.
Cons
May require a lot of work to implement his projectiles properly.
Effort - A - Can be cloned from a number of characters.
Background - The main character of The Mysterious Murasame Castle, he's also made appearances in recent games such as Captain Rainbow and Nintendoland. Notably, his game has recently seen its first ever official release for Western audiences.
Moveset - HIs moveset would revolve around the use of his katana and the unique power-ups from his game. For details, we'll send to to bksbestbwoy's posts.
http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-412#post-17023785
http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-477#post-17361465
Pros
A retro character that has seen a lot of popularity due to his recent appearances
Could possibly have a good base in one of the other sword users.
Cons
May require a lot of work to implement his projectiles properly.
The Prince of Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
A swordsman with a twist
Value - B - The main character of a series with one game.
Effort - B/C - Would require original moves, but many animations could be cloned from other sword users.
Background - The Sabure Prince is the main character of a Gameboy game titled For the Frog the Bell Tolls. He has the unique ability to transform into a Frog and a Snake.
Moveset - Many of his normal attacks can be cloned from other swordsmen and tweaked to fit his size. There's an upgrade in the original game that allows him to attack multiple times in a single turn, and it's been thought that this could carry over to his Smash incarnation, with each attack leading into an actual combo, where most characters only have this kind of attack on their jab. His specials can involve his transformations into his frog and snake forms, his Serpent Killer sword, and a number of other unique weapons and abilities from his game. For more details, please see this post.
Pros
A retro character from an unrepped series.
Many attacks can be cloned.
Cons
Not a widely-known character
Frog and Snake transformations, while not impossible, may prove difficult to implement.
Effort - B/C - Would require original moves, but many animations could be cloned from other sword users.
Background - The Sabure Prince is the main character of a Gameboy game titled For the Frog the Bell Tolls. He has the unique ability to transform into a Frog and a Snake.
Moveset - Many of his normal attacks can be cloned from other swordsmen and tweaked to fit his size. There's an upgrade in the original game that allows him to attack multiple times in a single turn, and it's been thought that this could carry over to his Smash incarnation, with each attack leading into an actual combo, where most characters only have this kind of attack on their jab. His specials can involve his transformations into his frog and snake forms, his Serpent Killer sword, and a number of other unique weapons and abilities from his game. For more details, please see this post.
Pros
A retro character from an unrepped series.
Many attacks can be cloned.
Cons
Not a widely-known character
Frog and Snake transformations, while not impossible, may prove difficult to implement.
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
Everyone's favorite loan shark
Value - A - Major Animal Crossing character.
Effort - C - Would probably have to be a unique character
Background - The shop owner and loan shark from Animal Crossing. As P:M cannot use the Villager because of SSB4, Tom Nook may actually work as a replacement Animal Crossing character. Interestingly, "IGN listed him as the ninth most-wanted character to appear in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They describe him as devious, diabolical, and sinister, commenting that while he may not be a good fighter due to being from a video game without any fighting, they would enjoy seeing him get beaten up."
Moveset - He'd probably need to develop a unique moveset. Here's an example.
Pros
-Major Animal Crossing character, and AC doesn't have a character in P:M
-Alternative to the Villager
-Was popularly requested in Brawl
Cons
-Would need a lot of work from models and animations to moveset to sounds
Effort - C - Would probably have to be a unique character
Background - The shop owner and loan shark from Animal Crossing. As P:M cannot use the Villager because of SSB4, Tom Nook may actually work as a replacement Animal Crossing character. Interestingly, "IGN listed him as the ninth most-wanted character to appear in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They describe him as devious, diabolical, and sinister, commenting that while he may not be a good fighter due to being from a video game without any fighting, they would enjoy seeing him get beaten up."
Moveset - He'd probably need to develop a unique moveset. Here's an example.
Pros
-Major Animal Crossing character, and AC doesn't have a character in P:M
-Alternative to the Villager
-Was popularly requested in Brawl
Cons
-Would need a lot of work from models and animations to moveset to sounds
Primid (Super Smash Bros.)
The Smash Rep we deserve, but not the one we need
Value - B - A representative of the Smash series itself. But... does it really need one?
Effort - A - All of his animations could be pulled directly from his SSE animations and tweaked to be brought up to fighter standards.
Background: The mook of the Subspace Emissary.
Moveset: Pulling from the various forms Primids come in, he can wield beam swords, fire, boomerangs, make himself metal, and more. For an interesting moveset based on his in-game attacks, we'll send you to Super_Primid's post.
Pros
Would represent the Smash series itself
Animations can be pulled from his existing animations in the SSE
Cons
A generic minion already generally unpopular in the Smash fanbase
Effort - A - All of his animations could be pulled directly from his SSE animations and tweaked to be brought up to fighter standards.
Background: The mook of the Subspace Emissary.
Moveset: Pulling from the various forms Primids come in, he can wield beam swords, fire, boomerangs, make himself metal, and more. For an interesting moveset based on his in-game attacks, we'll send you to Super_Primid's post.
Pros
Would represent the Smash series itself
Animations can be pulled from his existing animations in the SSE
Cons
A generic minion already generally unpopular in the Smash fanbase
NOTE: FOR THE SONIC AND METAL GEAR CHARACTERS LISTED BELOW...
Third party characters should have less importance in terms of the clone engine when compared to Nintendo characters. Keep that in mind.
Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Sonic's Luigi
Value - B - Super iconic Sonic character. Sonic's sidekick from the very early days. But do we need a second character from a non-Nintendo (guest) franchise?
Effort - A - Pseudo clone, Luigi style. He can borrow many moves from Sonic, but also diverge in several, making him more Luigi-like than an actual clone. Still, much less work needed.
Background - Everyone knows who Tails is, so if a Sonic character is to be considered, then it must go to Tails. However, the big question should be should another Sonic character even be considered in the first place? Remember this is a Nintendo game. Sonic and Snake are pretty much guests, and adding additional characters from their games is a little overkill. That being said, this is a mod, and the P:M staff are free to do what they want.
Moveset - Sonic clone... Probably slower, but with multiple jumps and maybe even Peach-like floating?
Pros
-Second most iconic Sonic character. Third most popular
-Luigifiable
-So many Sonic fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Effort - A - Pseudo clone, Luigi style. He can borrow many moves from Sonic, but also diverge in several, making him more Luigi-like than an actual clone. Still, much less work needed.
Background - Everyone knows who Tails is, so if a Sonic character is to be considered, then it must go to Tails. However, the big question should be should another Sonic character even be considered in the first place? Remember this is a Nintendo game. Sonic and Snake are pretty much guests, and adding additional characters from their games is a little overkill. That being said, this is a mod, and the P:M staff are free to do what they want.
Moveset - Sonic clone... Probably slower, but with multiple jumps and maybe even Peach-like floating?
Pros
-Second most iconic Sonic character. Third most popular
-Luigifiable
-So many Sonic fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog)
The Echidna
Value - B - Super iconic Sonic character. But do we need a second character from a non-Nintendo (guest) franchise?
Effort - A - Pseudo clone, Luigi style. He can borrow many moves from Sonic, but also diverge in several, making him more Luigi-like than an actual clone. Still, much less work needed.
Background - Knuckles first appeared in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 as a brainwashed guy who got in Sonic's way. Since then he's been a rival and friend/ally of Sonic's, appearing in a ton of games afterwards. He is similar to Sonic, but he also has a glide and the ability to climb on ledges and walls. He is generally like the Wario to Mario in terms of fighting; much stronger and more physical. He also seems to be more popular as an option than tails, which is why I include him here.
Moveset - Sonic clone... But probably slower and packs a lot more punch (literally), including heavier smash attacks and finishers than Sonic. He could probably also have a glide component
Pros
-Fourth most popular Sonic character
-Luigifiable
-Apparently more popular as a choice than Tails
-So many Sonic fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Effort - A - Pseudo clone, Luigi style. He can borrow many moves from Sonic, but also diverge in several, making him more Luigi-like than an actual clone. Still, much less work needed.
Background - Knuckles first appeared in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 as a brainwashed guy who got in Sonic's way. Since then he's been a rival and friend/ally of Sonic's, appearing in a ton of games afterwards. He is similar to Sonic, but he also has a glide and the ability to climb on ledges and walls. He is generally like the Wario to Mario in terms of fighting; much stronger and more physical. He also seems to be more popular as an option than tails, which is why I include him here.
Moveset - Sonic clone... But probably slower and packs a lot more punch (literally), including heavier smash attacks and finishers than Sonic. He could probably also have a glide component
Pros
-Fourth most popular Sonic character
-Luigifiable
-Apparently more popular as a choice than Tails
-So many Sonic fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Because people keep bringing him up
Value - C - Why Shadow over Tails?
Effort - A - Cloneable, a lot of PSA work done
Background - The darker, cloned version of Sonic.
Moveset - Obviously a Sonic (engine) clone, but he has some moves of his own that could be incorporated, like his use of chaos abilities.
Pros
-Cloneable
-Lots of PSA work done.
-Assist trophy
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Effort - A - Cloneable, a lot of PSA work done
Background - The darker, cloned version of Sonic.
Moveset - Obviously a Sonic (engine) clone, but he has some moves of his own that could be incorporated, like his use of chaos abilities.
Pros
-Cloneable
-Lots of PSA work done.
-Assist trophy
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Gray Fox (Metal Gear)
He wants to feel alive again
Value - B - A fairly popular character, but does any third party series need another?
Effort - B - Could be cloned from another sword user, but he would need some unique moves. There's been PSA work that could be used for inspiration.
Background - A former mercenary from Metal Gear who has been both an ally and an enemy to Snake.
Moveset - A very speedy sword-user.
Pros
Some PSA work done
Could be a decent semi-clone
Cons
Another 3rd Party character
Effort - B - Could be cloned from another sword user, but he would need some unique moves. There's been PSA work that could be used for inspiration.
Background - A former mercenary from Metal Gear who has been both an ally and an enemy to Snake.
Moveset - A very speedy sword-user.
Pros
Some PSA work done
Could be a decent semi-clone
Cons
Another 3rd Party character
Liquid Snake (Metal Gear)
The 'inferior' twin
Value - B - A major character from Metal Gear, but he's third party.
Effort - A - Could prove to be a fairly easy clone of Snake.
Background - The antagonist of Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and one of the 'sons' of Big Boss along with Solid Snake.
Moveset - Since he and Solid are twins of a sort, he'd make a lot of sense as a Snake clone with different attributes.
Pros
Easy Clone
Cons
Yet another 3rd Party
Effort - A - Could prove to be a fairly easy clone of Snake.
Background - The antagonist of Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and one of the 'sons' of Big Boss along with Solid Snake.
Moveset - Since he and Solid are twins of a sort, he'd make a lot of sense as a Snake clone with different attributes.
Pros
Easy Clone
Cons
Yet another 3rd Party
Most Recent and Past Results
The Format is as follows:
Name: Score (+1s, +1/2s, -1s, %)
Only characters with at least 10 votes (at least 5 must be positive votes) are included.
434 unique voters.
Character: Total (+1, 0.5, -1, % Approval)
Top 5
Isaac: 207.5 (200, 39, 12, 95.22%)
Ridley: 154.5 (168, 43, 35, 85.77%)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 117 (144, 32, 43, 80.37%)
Lyn: 106 (115, 46, 32, 83.42%)
K Rool: 89.5 (80, 51, 16, 89.12%)
S-Tier (55+ total)
Dark Samus: 89 (87, 54, 25, 84.94%)
Skull Kid: 81.5 (65, 43, 5, 95.58%)
Saki: 65 (55, 38, 9, 91.18%)
Ray: 58.5 (44, 31, 1, 98.68%)
Sami: 56.5 (61, 23, 16, 84.00%)
A-Tier (30+ total)
Masked Man: 51.5 (41, 37, 8, 90.70%)
Sukapon: 51.5 (56, 43, 26, 79.20%)
Dixie Kong: 44 (55, 48, 35, 74.64%)
Paper Mario: 41.5 (40, 49, 23, 79.46%)
B-Tier (15+ total)
Tom Nook: 29 (30, 28, 15, 79.45%)
Andy: 28 (22, 32, 10, 84.38%)
Ninten: 26.5 (24, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Waluigi: 23 (47, 42, 45, 66.42%)
Samurai Goroh: 22 (17, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Takamaru: 19 (10, 18, 0, 100%)
Lip: 17.5 (11, 13, 0, 100%)
C-Tier (0+ total)
Tetra: 11.5 (18, 19, 16, 69.81%)
Pichu: 10.5 (68, 35, 75, 57.87%)
Hector: 9.5 (20, 25, 23, 66.18%)
Mach Rider: 7.5 (1, 13, 0, 100%)
Prince Sable: 7 (3, 8, 0, 100%)
Primid: 7 (7, 8, 4, 78.95%)
Ashley: 6.5 (2, 9, 0, 100%)
Rawk Hawk: 6.5 (1, 11, 0, 100%)
Slippy: 6 (7, 8, 5, 75.00%)
Leon: 5 (3, 6, 1, 90.00%)
Micaiah: 4 (3, 6, 2, 81.82%)
Balloon Fighter: 4.5 (1, 9, 1, 90.91%)
Toad: 3 (25, 26, 35, 59.30%)
Young Link: 1.5 (4, 5, 5, 64.29%)
D-Tier (0 and lower)
Pokemon Trainer: -2 (13, 6, 18, 51.35%)
Plusle and Minun: -2.5 (8, 7, 14, 51.72%)
Krystal: -3 (26, 34, 46, 56.60%)
Toon Zelda: -8.5 (8, 7, 20, 42.86%)
F-Tier (Bottom 5)
Gray Fox: -9 (5, 4, 16, 36.00%)
Liquid Snake: -9 (2, 2, 12, 25.00%)
Tails: -29.5 (22, 29, 66, 43.59%)
Knuckles: -41 (22, 16, 71, 34.86%)
Shadow: -55.5 (22, 15, 85, 30.33%)
Character: Total (+1, 0.5, -1, % Approval)
Top 5
Isaac: 207.5 (200, 39, 12, 95.22%)
Ridley: 154.5 (168, 43, 35, 85.77%)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 117 (144, 32, 43, 80.37%)
Lyn: 106 (115, 46, 32, 83.42%)
K Rool: 89.5 (80, 51, 16, 89.12%)
S-Tier (55+ total)
Dark Samus: 89 (87, 54, 25, 84.94%)
Skull Kid: 81.5 (65, 43, 5, 95.58%)
Saki: 65 (55, 38, 9, 91.18%)
Ray: 58.5 (44, 31, 1, 98.68%)
Sami: 56.5 (61, 23, 16, 84.00%)
A-Tier (30+ total)
Masked Man: 51.5 (41, 37, 8, 90.70%)
Sukapon: 51.5 (56, 43, 26, 79.20%)
Dixie Kong: 44 (55, 48, 35, 74.64%)
Paper Mario: 41.5 (40, 49, 23, 79.46%)
B-Tier (15+ total)
Tom Nook: 29 (30, 28, 15, 79.45%)
Andy: 28 (22, 32, 10, 84.38%)
Ninten: 26.5 (24, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Waluigi: 23 (47, 42, 45, 66.42%)
Samurai Goroh: 22 (17, 23, 9, 83.93%)
Takamaru: 19 (10, 18, 0, 100%)
Lip: 17.5 (11, 13, 0, 100%)
C-Tier (0+ total)
Tetra: 11.5 (18, 19, 16, 69.81%)
Pichu: 10.5 (68, 35, 75, 57.87%)
Hector: 9.5 (20, 25, 23, 66.18%)
Mach Rider: 7.5 (1, 13, 0, 100%)
Prince Sable: 7 (3, 8, 0, 100%)
Primid: 7 (7, 8, 4, 78.95%)
Ashley: 6.5 (2, 9, 0, 100%)
Rawk Hawk: 6.5 (1, 11, 0, 100%)
Slippy: 6 (7, 8, 5, 75.00%)
Leon: 5 (3, 6, 1, 90.00%)
Micaiah: 4 (3, 6, 2, 81.82%)
Balloon Fighter: 4.5 (1, 9, 1, 90.91%)
Toad: 3 (25, 26, 35, 59.30%)
Young Link: 1.5 (4, 5, 5, 64.29%)
D-Tier (0 and lower)
Pokemon Trainer: -2 (13, 6, 18, 51.35%)
Plusle and Minun: -2.5 (8, 7, 14, 51.72%)
Krystal: -3 (26, 34, 46, 56.60%)
Toon Zelda: -8.5 (8, 7, 20, 42.86%)
F-Tier (Bottom 5)
Gray Fox: -9 (5, 4, 16, 36.00%)
Liquid Snake: -9 (2, 2, 12, 25.00%)
Tails: -29.5 (22, 29, 66, 43.59%)
Knuckles: -41 (22, 16, 71, 34.86%)
Shadow: -55.5 (22, 15, 85, 30.33%)
357 total voters.
Top 5
Isaac: 177 (169, 36, 10, 95.35%)
Ridley: 131 (143, 42, 33, 84.86%)
Ganondorf + Black Shadow: 98 (124, 28, 40, 79.17%)
Lyn: 93.5 (100, 43, 28, 83.63%)
Dark Samus: 76 (75, 50, 24, 83.89%)
S Tier
King K. Rool: 68.5 (62, 45, 16, 86.99%)
Skull Kid: 62 (49, 36, 5, 94.44%)
Saki: 53 (46, 32, 9, 89.66%)
Bowser Jr: 53 (56, 38, 22, 81.03%)
A Tier
Sukapon: 47 (53, 38, 25, 78.45%)
Masked Man/Claus: 44 (35, 30, 6, 91.55%)
Sami: 42 (48, 20, 16, 80.95%)
Ray: 41.5 (30, 23, 0, 100.00%)
Dixie Kong: 35 (48, 42, 34, 72.58%)
Paper Mario: 32 (34, 44, 24, 76.47%)
B Tier
Andy: 26.5 (21, 29, 9, 84.75%)
Tom Nook: 26.5 (26, 25, 12, 80.95%)
Samurai Goroh: 21.5 (17, 31, 11, 81.36%)
Ninten: 18 (15, 18, 6, 84.62%)
Waluigi: 15 (40, 38, 44, 63.93%)
Lip: 13.5 (7, 13, 0, 100.00%)
Hector: 11 (18, 24, 19, 68.85%)
C Tier
Primid: 8.5 (7, 9, 3, 84.21%)
Tetra: 8 (14, 18, 15, 68.09%)
Mach Rider: 7.5 (1, 13, 0, 100.00%)
Slippy: 5.5 (7, 7, 5, 73.68%)
Leon: 5 (3, 6, 1, 90.00%)
Balloon Fighter: 4.5 (1, 9, 1, 90.91%)
Toad: 3.5 (24, 23, 32, 59.49%)
Young Link: 1 (4, 4, 5, 61.54%)
Red/Pokemon Trainer: 0.5 (11, 5, 13, 55.17%)
D Tier
Pichu: -2.5 (54, 29, 71, 53.90%)
Pulse & Minun: -3 (7, 8, 14, 51.72%)
Toon Zelda: -7.5 (8, 7, 19, 44.12%)
Krystal: -8 (20, 30, 43, 53.76%)
Gray Fox: -10 (3, 2, 14, 26.32%)
Sonic Tier
Tails: -26.5 (21, 27, 61, 44.04%)
Knuckles: -33.5 (21, 15, 62, 36.73%)
Shadow: -51 (21, 14, 79, 30.70%)
Top 5
Isaac: 177 (169, 36, 10, 95.35%)
Ridley: 131 (143, 42, 33, 84.86%)
Ganondorf + Black Shadow: 98 (124, 28, 40, 79.17%)
Lyn: 93.5 (100, 43, 28, 83.63%)
Dark Samus: 76 (75, 50, 24, 83.89%)
S Tier
King K. Rool: 68.5 (62, 45, 16, 86.99%)
Skull Kid: 62 (49, 36, 5, 94.44%)
Saki: 53 (46, 32, 9, 89.66%)
Bowser Jr: 53 (56, 38, 22, 81.03%)
A Tier
Sukapon: 47 (53, 38, 25, 78.45%)
Masked Man/Claus: 44 (35, 30, 6, 91.55%)
Sami: 42 (48, 20, 16, 80.95%)
Ray: 41.5 (30, 23, 0, 100.00%)
Dixie Kong: 35 (48, 42, 34, 72.58%)
Paper Mario: 32 (34, 44, 24, 76.47%)
B Tier
Andy: 26.5 (21, 29, 9, 84.75%)
Tom Nook: 26.5 (26, 25, 12, 80.95%)
Samurai Goroh: 21.5 (17, 31, 11, 81.36%)
Ninten: 18 (15, 18, 6, 84.62%)
Waluigi: 15 (40, 38, 44, 63.93%)
Lip: 13.5 (7, 13, 0, 100.00%)
Hector: 11 (18, 24, 19, 68.85%)
C Tier
Primid: 8.5 (7, 9, 3, 84.21%)
Tetra: 8 (14, 18, 15, 68.09%)
Mach Rider: 7.5 (1, 13, 0, 100.00%)
Slippy: 5.5 (7, 7, 5, 73.68%)
Leon: 5 (3, 6, 1, 90.00%)
Balloon Fighter: 4.5 (1, 9, 1, 90.91%)
Toad: 3.5 (24, 23, 32, 59.49%)
Young Link: 1 (4, 4, 5, 61.54%)
Red/Pokemon Trainer: 0.5 (11, 5, 13, 55.17%)
D Tier
Pichu: -2.5 (54, 29, 71, 53.90%)
Pulse & Minun: -3 (7, 8, 14, 51.72%)
Toon Zelda: -7.5 (8, 7, 19, 44.12%)
Krystal: -8 (20, 30, 43, 53.76%)
Gray Fox: -10 (3, 2, 14, 26.32%)
Sonic Tier
Tails: -26.5 (21, 27, 61, 44.04%)
Knuckles: -33.5 (21, 15, 62, 36.73%)
Shadow: -51 (21, 14, 79, 30.70%)
Individual Tiers
Isaac: 132.5 (131, 23, 10, 93.90%)
Ridley: 100.5 (108, 33, 24, 85.45%)
Lyn: 74 (83, 26, 22, 83.21%)
Ganondorf + Black Shadow: 68 (91, 23, 35, 76.67%)
Dark Samus: 53 (54, 40, 21, 81.74%)
King K Rool: 46 (43, 32, 13, 85.23%)
A Tier
Skapon: 39.5 (44, 31, 20, 78.95%)
Bowser Jr.: 37 (39, 32, 18, 79.78%)
Saki: 37 (33, 26, 9, 86.76%)
Skull Kid: 32 (27, 18, 4, 91.84%)
Masked Man/Claus: 30.5 (27, 15, 4, 91.30%)
B Tier
Sami: 23.5 (34, 13, 17, 73.44%)
Dixie Kong: 23 (35, 38, 31, 70.19%)
Paper Mario: 20 (25, 34, 22, 72.84%)
Tom Nook: 20 (18, 20, 8, 82.61%)
Ray: 18.5 (11, 15, 0, 100.00%)
Andy: 15.5 (14, 19, 8, 80.49%)
Samurai Goroh: 15 (13, 26, 11, 78.00%)
C Tier
Toad: 7.5 (21, 19, 23, 63.49%)
Waluigi: 6 (31, 26, 38, 60.00%)
Lip: 5.5 (1, 9, 0, 100.00%)
Hector: 3.5 (11, 19, 17, 63.83%)
Tetra: 3 (9, 14, 13, 64.89%)
Red/Pokemon Trainer: 1 (5, 4, 6, 60.00%)
Plusle & Minun: -3 (6, 9, 13, 51.85%)
D Tier
Toon Zelda: -9.5 (6, 7, 19, 40.63%)
Krystal: -10.5 (11, 25, 34, 51.43%)
Pichu: -12.5 (36, 25, 61, 50.00%)
F (Sonic) Tier
Tails: -25.5 (16, 19, 51, 40.70%)
Knuckles: -28.5 (15, 11, 49, 34.67%)
Shadow: -53.5 (12, 7, 69, 21.59%)
Isaac: 132.5 (131, 23, 10, 93.90%)
Ridley: 100.5 (108, 33, 24, 85.45%)
Lyn: 74 (83, 26, 22, 83.21%)
Ganondorf + Black Shadow: 68 (91, 23, 35, 76.67%)
Dark Samus: 53 (54, 40, 21, 81.74%)
King K Rool: 46 (43, 32, 13, 85.23%)
A Tier
Skapon: 39.5 (44, 31, 20, 78.95%)
Bowser Jr.: 37 (39, 32, 18, 79.78%)
Saki: 37 (33, 26, 9, 86.76%)
Skull Kid: 32 (27, 18, 4, 91.84%)
Masked Man/Claus: 30.5 (27, 15, 4, 91.30%)
B Tier
Sami: 23.5 (34, 13, 17, 73.44%)
Dixie Kong: 23 (35, 38, 31, 70.19%)
Paper Mario: 20 (25, 34, 22, 72.84%)
Tom Nook: 20 (18, 20, 8, 82.61%)
Ray: 18.5 (11, 15, 0, 100.00%)
Andy: 15.5 (14, 19, 8, 80.49%)
Samurai Goroh: 15 (13, 26, 11, 78.00%)
C Tier
Toad: 7.5 (21, 19, 23, 63.49%)
Waluigi: 6 (31, 26, 38, 60.00%)
Lip: 5.5 (1, 9, 0, 100.00%)
Hector: 3.5 (11, 19, 17, 63.83%)
Tetra: 3 (9, 14, 13, 64.89%)
Red/Pokemon Trainer: 1 (5, 4, 6, 60.00%)
Plusle & Minun: -3 (6, 9, 13, 51.85%)
D Tier
Toon Zelda: -9.5 (6, 7, 19, 40.63%)
Krystal: -10.5 (11, 25, 34, 51.43%)
Pichu: -12.5 (36, 25, 61, 50.00%)
F (Sonic) Tier
Tails: -25.5 (16, 19, 51, 40.70%)
Knuckles: -28.5 (15, 11, 49, 34.67%)
Shadow: -53.5 (12, 7, 69, 21.59%)
Total Voters: 168
A Tier
Isaac: 95 (95, 20, 10, 92.00%)
Ridley: 67.5 (75, 25, 20, 83.33%)
Lyn: 51.5 (60, 19, 18, 81.44%)
B Tier
Ganondorf/Black Shadow: 38.5 (59, 19, 30, 72.22%)
King K. Rool: 31.5 (30, 27, 12, 82.61%)
Dark Samus: 30 (37, 28, 21, 75.58%)
Skapon: 28 (36, 20, 18, 75.68%)
Saki: 24.5 (21, 23, 8, 84.62%)
Masked Man/Claus: 24 (21, 12, 3, 91.67%)
Bowser Jr.: 22 (27, 22, 16, 75.38%)
C Tier
Paper Mario: 12 (17, 28, 19, 70.31%)
Sami: 12 (23, 12, 17, 67.31%)
Tom Nook: 11.5 (11, 15, 7, 78.79%)
Dixie Kong: 11.5 (25, 29, 28, 65.85%)
Skull Kid: 9.5 (8, 7, 2, 88.24%)
Samurai Goroh: 9.5 (11, 19, 11, 73.17%)
Andy: 9.5 (9, 15, 7, 77.42%)
D Tier
Hector: 0.5 (7, 13, 13, 60.61%)
Tetra: 0 (8, 6, 11, 56.00%)
Plusle & Minun: -1.5 (5, 7, 10, 54.54%)
Toad: -4.5 (10, 13, 21, 52.27%)
Waluigi: -6 (18, 20, 34, 52.78%)
E Tier
Krystal: -9.5 (8, 21, 28, 50.88%)
Toon Zelda: -10.5 (6, 5, 19, 36.67%)
Pichu: -12.5 (24, 19, 46, 48.31%)
Sonic Tier
Tails: -25 (12, 14, 44, 37.14%)
Knuckles: -29.5 (9, 7, 42, 27.59%)
Shadow: -44.5 (10, 7, 58, 22.67%)
A Tier
Isaac: 95 (95, 20, 10, 92.00%)
Ridley: 67.5 (75, 25, 20, 83.33%)
Lyn: 51.5 (60, 19, 18, 81.44%)
B Tier
Ganondorf/Black Shadow: 38.5 (59, 19, 30, 72.22%)
King K. Rool: 31.5 (30, 27, 12, 82.61%)
Dark Samus: 30 (37, 28, 21, 75.58%)
Skapon: 28 (36, 20, 18, 75.68%)
Saki: 24.5 (21, 23, 8, 84.62%)
Masked Man/Claus: 24 (21, 12, 3, 91.67%)
Bowser Jr.: 22 (27, 22, 16, 75.38%)
C Tier
Paper Mario: 12 (17, 28, 19, 70.31%)
Sami: 12 (23, 12, 17, 67.31%)
Tom Nook: 11.5 (11, 15, 7, 78.79%)
Dixie Kong: 11.5 (25, 29, 28, 65.85%)
Skull Kid: 9.5 (8, 7, 2, 88.24%)
Samurai Goroh: 9.5 (11, 19, 11, 73.17%)
Andy: 9.5 (9, 15, 7, 77.42%)
D Tier
Hector: 0.5 (7, 13, 13, 60.61%)
Tetra: 0 (8, 6, 11, 56.00%)
Plusle & Minun: -1.5 (5, 7, 10, 54.54%)
Toad: -4.5 (10, 13, 21, 52.27%)
Waluigi: -6 (18, 20, 34, 52.78%)
E Tier
Krystal: -9.5 (8, 21, 28, 50.88%)
Toon Zelda: -10.5 (6, 5, 19, 36.67%)
Pichu: -12.5 (24, 19, 46, 48.31%)
Sonic Tier
Tails: -25 (12, 14, 44, 37.14%)
Knuckles: -29.5 (9, 7, 42, 27.59%)
Shadow: -44.5 (10, 7, 58, 22.67%)
Total voters: 102
Isaac: 63.5 (62, 9, 3, 95.9%)
Ridley: 45.5 (49, 13, 10, 86.1%)
Lyn: 36 (39, 12, 9, 85.0%)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 22.5 (31, 15, 16, 74.2%)
Skapon: 18.5 (21, 15, 10, 78.3%)
King K Rool: 17 (11, 18, 3, 90.6%)
Dark Samus: 16 (20, 22, 15, 73.7%)
Sami: 15.5 (20, 9, 9, 76.3%)
Dixie: 14.5 (21, 17, 15, 71.7%)
Saki: 13.5 (16, 13, 7, 80.0%)
Bowser Jr: 11.5 (16, 13, 11, 72.5%)
Tom Nook: 10.5 (7, 7, 0, 100%)
Paper Mario: 7.5 (12, 19, 14, 68.9%)
Andy: 7 (6, 10, 4, 80.0%)
Samurai Goroh: 5.5 (6, 17, 9, 71.9%)
Plusle & Minun: 1 (3, 4, 4, 63.6%)
Toad: 0 (6, 10, 11, 59.3%)
Hector: -2.5 (6, 5, 11, 50.0%)
Pichu: -3.5 (16, 13, 26, 52.7%)
Tetra: -4.5 (5, 1, 10, 37.5%)
Krystal: -7 (6, 14, 20, 50.0%)
Toon Zelda: -9 (4, 0, 13, 23.5%)
Waluigi: -15 (8, 12, 29, 40.8%)
Tails: -18.5 (8, 9, 20, 35.4%)
Knuckles: -21 (6, 4, 29, 25.6%)
Shadow: -30.5 (6, 3, 38, 19.1%)
Isaac: 63.5 (62, 9, 3, 95.9%)
Ridley: 45.5 (49, 13, 10, 86.1%)
Lyn: 36 (39, 12, 9, 85.0%)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 22.5 (31, 15, 16, 74.2%)
Skapon: 18.5 (21, 15, 10, 78.3%)
King K Rool: 17 (11, 18, 3, 90.6%)
Dark Samus: 16 (20, 22, 15, 73.7%)
Sami: 15.5 (20, 9, 9, 76.3%)
Dixie: 14.5 (21, 17, 15, 71.7%)
Saki: 13.5 (16, 13, 7, 80.0%)
Bowser Jr: 11.5 (16, 13, 11, 72.5%)
Tom Nook: 10.5 (7, 7, 0, 100%)
Paper Mario: 7.5 (12, 19, 14, 68.9%)
Andy: 7 (6, 10, 4, 80.0%)
Samurai Goroh: 5.5 (6, 17, 9, 71.9%)
Plusle & Minun: 1 (3, 4, 4, 63.6%)
Toad: 0 (6, 10, 11, 59.3%)
Hector: -2.5 (6, 5, 11, 50.0%)
Pichu: -3.5 (16, 13, 26, 52.7%)
Tetra: -4.5 (5, 1, 10, 37.5%)
Krystal: -7 (6, 14, 20, 50.0%)
Toon Zelda: -9 (4, 0, 13, 23.5%)
Waluigi: -15 (8, 12, 29, 40.8%)
Tails: -18.5 (8, 9, 20, 35.4%)
Knuckles: -21 (6, 4, 29, 25.6%)
Shadow: -30.5 (6, 3, 38, 19.1%)
Total voters: 59
Isaac: 39.5 (36, 9 ,1)
Ridley: 32.5 (32, 9, 4)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 17 (19, 8, 6)
Dixie: 15.5 (16, 11, 6)
Lyn: 15 (19, 6, 7)
Sami: 13.5 (13, 5, 2)
Saki: 11.5 (10, 9, 1)
Bowser Jr: 11.5 (12, 7, 4)
Skapon: 10 (11, 8, 5)
King K Rool: 8.5 (5, 13, 3)
Dark Samus: 7.5 (13, 11, 11)
Samurai Goroh: 4.5 (4, 9, 4)
Andy: 4.5 (2, 7, 1)
Paper Mario: 2.5 (6, 9, 8)
Toad: -0.5 (4, 7, 8)
Krystal: -3 (5, 6, 11)
Tetra: -3 (5, 0, 8)
Hector: -4.5 (2, 1, 7)
Toon Zelda: -6.5 (3, 0, 8)
Pichu: -6.5 (8, 9, 19)
Waluigi: -9.5 (4, 9, 18)Tails: -11 (6, 6, 20)
Knuckles: -15.5 (4, 1, 20)
Shadow: -25.5 (2, 1, 28)
Feel free to interpret it however you like, but I think it's safe to say all the characters colored green (score of at least 10, and more than twice as many full votes as anti votes) are popular choices, while the red ones (negative score, more than twice as many anti votes as full votes) should not make it in due to being generally unpopular. I think this is something that people in the minority camps of both groups should be able to understand and acknowledge. The only one I'd give an asterisk to is Ganondorf / Black Shadow, as it'd be nice for Ganondorf mains to have a louder say on that.
Isaac: 39.5 (36, 9 ,1)
Ridley: 32.5 (32, 9, 4)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 17 (19, 8, 6)
Dixie: 15.5 (16, 11, 6)
Lyn: 15 (19, 6, 7)
Sami: 13.5 (13, 5, 2)
Saki: 11.5 (10, 9, 1)
Bowser Jr: 11.5 (12, 7, 4)
Skapon: 10 (11, 8, 5)
King K Rool: 8.5 (5, 13, 3)
Dark Samus: 7.5 (13, 11, 11)
Samurai Goroh: 4.5 (4, 9, 4)
Andy: 4.5 (2, 7, 1)
Paper Mario: 2.5 (6, 9, 8)
Toad: -0.5 (4, 7, 8)
Krystal: -3 (5, 6, 11)
Tetra: -3 (5, 0, 8)
Hector: -4.5 (2, 1, 7)
Toon Zelda: -6.5 (3, 0, 8)
Pichu: -6.5 (8, 9, 19)
Waluigi: -9.5 (4, 9, 18)Tails: -11 (6, 6, 20)
Knuckles: -15.5 (4, 1, 20)
Shadow: -25.5 (2, 1, 28)
Feel free to interpret it however you like, but I think it's safe to say all the characters colored green (score of at least 10, and more than twice as many full votes as anti votes) are popular choices, while the red ones (negative score, more than twice as many anti votes as full votes) should not make it in due to being generally unpopular. I think this is something that people in the minority camps of both groups should be able to understand and acknowledge. The only one I'd give an asterisk to is Ganondorf / Black Shadow, as it'd be nice for Ganondorf mains to have a louder say on that.
Last edited:
Friesnchip
Smash Journeyman
You'll notice quite a few new characters have jumped above the up vote threshold and made it into the OP this update. Hopefully some of your favorites made the cut this time around (I'm pretty pleased that Prince Sable got a bit of recognition).
Last edited:
Shin F.
Smash Master
Ah yes, I forgot to mention that we don't have entries prepared for every single character, but we didn't want to delay once more and end up having to put this off even longer to add them, so we decided to simply create the OP entries at a later date while including the results for the new characters.
JCOnyx
Smash Ace
Yes, there are a couple more candidates that have enough total votes and positive votes to be included in the next revision, notably Micaiah and Rawk Hawk.
Friesnchip
Smash Journeyman
C'mon man, we JUST updated the results.
I realize you are going to tally it up yourself but I saw the joke opportunity and went for it.
Sour Supreme
サイマグネット
MFW when bottom tier is all 3rd Party characters.
PlateProp
Smash Master
Yo, does anyone happen to randomly know where the pmbr got the Pokemon remix used in the 2.5 Squirtle reveal?
Shin F.
Smash Master
Fun fact: When tallying this, I considered making another completely separate tier.MFW when bottom tier is all 3rd Party characters.
Isaac Tier (200+ votes)
ElPanandero
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,100
- NNID
- ElPanandero
For the Potential Ganon/Bshadow switch, has the triforce mod been given any consideration, a blend of magic/sword mode for the new Ganon. Considering it would just need to be balanced with some moe changes as the back room sees fit, seems impossibly easy to do, even if I am against it happening.
Grey Belnades
The Imperial Aztec
Lyn went down one spot but she's still in the top 5.
Sour Supreme
サイマグネット
Please show us how to make our own characters because ik some people want certain characters (like I want krystal but so many people call her a furry) I just ask this since not every character can make it
Sour Supreme
サイマグネット
Wat.
Shins a deity wielding the modding tools of Cthulhu himself, but I doubt he's able to teach someone how to create PSA's at the ready.
Shin F.
Smash Master
Lol, I'm not the person to be asking about this. I do know a lot about how it's done, but I've only played around with it myself a little bit. You'd have better luck learning how to PSA at Kitty Corp.
This made my day.
Last edited:
Sour Supreme
サイマグネット
-1 Krystull from Starfux.
Reson: no furrys plz this is game not 4chan
Reson: no furrys plz this is game not 4chan
PlateProp
Smash Master
Gtfo psykid, you aint no mod, you can't tell me wat2du
you could have put that a little more neutrally.
"changing Ganondorf's established moveset is still a somewhat debated topic", for example.
Shin F.
Smash Master
I didn't actually write or edit a lot of the entries for the older suggestions, so I didn't notice that, but I'll change it.
bksbestbwoy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,465
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
- NNID
- AzureJay89
- 3DS FC
- 4828-5479-7054
- Switch FC
- 2162-7423-7143
I'm going to have to put in some overtime if Taka only made it to low B tier. lol
Excellent work on that OP guys.
Excellent work on that OP guys.
oh, my bad.
it just reads like it's only taken from the Pro-black shadowdorf point of view, while i feel these descriptions should be largely neutral.
Last edited:
- Status