New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Sour Supreme]

Fair enough. I don't think KKR is inferior but i personally would rather see dixie as you said.


While the grammar was a bit butchered and tough to read i can see where you're coming from though i'm not sure i agree. You're saying that Ninten would have moves ingame that wouldn't represent his actual moves. I'll refer you to the Ninten PR department. Paging @ Solbliminal and @ Shin F.

MFW I didn't get paged.

 

[Solbliminal]

MFW I didn't get paged.

The irony is that I'm not even a Mother / EarthBound fan.

 

[Sour Supreme]

The irony is that I'm not even a Mother / EarthBound fan.

You're a damn good artist tho. <3

 

[Friesnchip]

This is probably just me, but this style feels like Calvin and Hobbes with a classic Japanese manga influence, and I absolutely love it.

 

[muleet]

Nisforsmash > Sorry for the grammar. I am french and it is sometimes difficult for me to make english sentences, don't hesitate to tell me what part are incorrect when you answer me.

That philosophy is also pretty whack. All the characters are video game characters. If that's the case, Falcon, ganon, sheik, zss, and spacies are all SSB characters because they certainly aren't true to the source material.

> That's true for them yes, but SSB gave them "gameplay personalities", which are explainable to a guy that haven't played them : Fox uses a blaster, most of his moves are close-ranged since he uses his bare hand, some moves takes a bit of time before they trigger, etc. Falcon truly has personality, one that is different from Ganondorf. In terms of game design we can oppose any gameplay by two concepts : its narrative side, and its technical side. The narrative side is understandable by someone that never played any game in his life, while the technical side is understandable only when you know a specific game. So the first is easily sharable and quickly fun to watch/play, and may still conceal a deep gameplay, while the technical side may be something truly difficult and interesting for progamers, but hard to understand for new players when they watch it. (I'm saying this because I had difficulties to understand how Lucas is played, even when watching pros.)
I have to say that, of course, most competitive game are "technical", but what made the SSB series different from combat games so far, is that it has a lots of "narrative" aspect, even in Melee. So, while I like what the PMBR does, I think they should try be careful with that aspect. Even a competitive game can be narrative. (And yes, sorry I didn't played Mother 2 and 3, so I may be wrong about the design of the character. All I know is that, to me, Ninten was very generic.)

 

[Solbliminal]

This is probably just me, but this style feels like Calvin and Hobbes with a classic Japanese manga influence, and I absolutely love it.

This was my girlfriend's drawing. She loves cartoons and a little bit of anime, so it comes as no surprise that she has a bit of influence from styles like that. I appreciate the compliment though. I'll make sure to let her know you like it.

 

[CaptainKirby]

K. Rool is only "obscure" relatively because Dixie was recently in Tropical Freeze. Dixie also hasn't had more screen time than K.Rool, he's been the villain in almost every post Country DK game. Donkey Kong Jr. is DK btw, or his dad or something? Anyway K. Rool is a villain, a fatty, and another DK rep, all of which we could use more of. The moveset and alt costume potential is through the roof, too. He is by far the most worthwhile addition in my eyes. It's just a shame that he would require so much work.

This. This so much.

I was so hoping we would finally get K. Rool in Smash 4 (or any Donkey Kong rep, at least), but now that it seems most likely it won't happen, I can only vouch for Project M to do justice for DK and its fans.

 

[PlateProp]

I'll break out the image since I know we will need it for almost every time the subject is brought up:

I feel like Ninten should be the angry looking Mother kid since Ness is the happy one and Lucas is the sad *cough*******cough* one

jkilovelucasinmother3plzdonthurtme

Still think he should have kept the normal bandanna though, not a big fan of the boy scout necktie thing...

Edit: He could totally get an alt taunt like squirtle where he raised tge bandanna like a mask too

 

[NisforSmash]

MFW I didn't get paged.

sorry i keep thinking it's Sol who's the mother fan.

Nisforsmash > Sorry for the grammar. I am french and it is sometimes difficult for me to make english sentences, don't hesitate to tell me what part are incorrect when you answer me.


> That's true for them yes, but SSB gave them "gameplay personalities", which are explainable to a guy that haven't played them : Fox uses a blaster, most of his moves are close-ranged since he uses his bare hand, some moves takes a bit of time before they trigger, etc. Falcon truly has personality, one that is different from Ganondorf. In terms of game design we can oppose any gameplay by two concepts : its narrative side, and its technical side. The narrative side is understandable by someone that never played any game in his life, while the technical side is understandable only when you know a specific game. So the first is easily sharable and quickly fun to watch/play, and may still conceal a deep gameplay, while the technical side may be something truly difficult and interesting for progamers, but hard to understand for new players when they watch it. (I'm saying this because I had difficulties to understand how Lucas is played, even when watching pros.)
I have to say that, of course, most competitive game are "technical", but what made the SSB series different from combat games so far, is that it has a lots of "narrative" aspect, even in Melee. So, while I like what the PMBR does, I think they should try be careful with that aspect. Even a competitive game can be narrative. (And yes, sorry I didn't played Mother 2 and 3, so I may be wrong about the design of the character. All I know is that, to me, Ninten was very generic.)

Ahh it's no problem man. I see what your saying. Point taken. Thanks for civil.
/argument

 

[NisforSmash]

MFW I didn't get paged.

sorry i keep thinking it's Sol who's the mother fan.

Nisforsmash > Sorry for the grammar. I am french and it is sometimes difficult for me to make english sentences, don't hesitate to tell me what part are incorrect when you answer me.


> That's true for them yes, but SSB gave them "gameplay personalities", which are explainable to a guy that haven't played them : Fox uses a blaster, most of his moves are close-ranged since he uses his bare hand, some moves takes a bit of time before they trigger, etc. Falcon truly has personality, one that is different from Ganondorf. In terms of game design we can oppose any gameplay by two concepts : its narrative side, and its technical side. The narrative side is understandable by someone that never played any game in his life, while the technical side is understandable only when you know a specific game. So the first is easily sharable and quickly fun to watch/play, and may still conceal a deep gameplay, while the technical side may be something truly difficult and interesting for progamers, but hard to understand for new players when they watch it. (I'm saying this because I had difficulties to understand how Lucas is played, even when watching pros.)
I have to say that, of course, most competitive game are "technical", but what made the SSB series different from combat games so far, is that it has a lots of "narrative" aspect, even in Melee. So, while I like what the PMBR does, I think they should try be careful with that aspect. Even a competitive game can be narrative. (And yes, sorry I didn't played Mother 2 and 3, so I may be wrong about the design of the character. All I know is that, to me, Ninten was very generic.)

Ahh it's no problem man. I see what your saying. Point taken. Thanks for being civil.
/argument

 

[Chevy]

His obscurity isn't due to his lack of being in tropical freeze which i haven't played for the record. It's due to his odd body proportions making him likely based more off of d3 than any other character and let's face it heavies aren't exactly the easiest characters to design especially in this kind of game. We don't NEED another fatty or villian. While it would be nice to have some more characters that fill that role it's just more plausible and less of a hassle for them to work with more balanced characters which compared to rool, dixie is. I'm not saying he isn't worthy of a spot but i feel dixie would complete the trio better and her moveset would be less complex in its design providing for a lighter workload. While he is the main villain in the series you have to remember that people are more familiar with the character in the series whom they've played as the most. Importance for me goes down from there based on screen time and relevance to plot.

Odd body proportions don't make someone "obscure", lack of awareness does. I don't understand this supposed "trio" either, there is no trio, there's just a handful of simians and a Krok. And K. Rool is more relevant to the plot than any other character in DKC, he is the driving force behind every game's story.

 

[Solbliminal]

I feel like Ninten should be the angry looking Mother kid since Ness is the happy one and Lucas is the sad *cough*******cough* one

jkilovelucasinmother3plzdonthurtme

Still think he should have kept the normal bandanna though, not a big fan of the boy scout necktie thing...

Edit: He could totally get an alt taunt like squirtle where he raised tge bandanna like a mask too

No offense, but the way you are trying to describe how you want Ninten sounds like you want him to be something he is not. An angsty preteen going through his thug phases.

I made him the way he is to stay true to his character while still looking different enough from Ness and Lucas.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

MFW I didn't get paged.

MFW I didn't get paged either

 

[Sour Supreme]

MFW I didn't get paged either

*bruh hug*

 

[PlateProp]

No offense, but the way you are trying to describe how you want Ninten sounds like you want him to be something he is not. An angsty preteen going through his thug phases.

I made him the way he is to stay true to his character while still looking different enough from Ness and Lucas.

Not at all? I was joking clearly, did you not see the "jklucas" part?

And how does having the original bandanna design make him look angsty? It honestly looks better than the boyscout one in my opinion. Pulling it up was just a suggestion, and it makes sense that he would possibly use it as a mask because of his asthma to block out dust or something.

 

[Sour Supreme]

He's saving the world from Aliens.

Not robbing a bank.

 

[PlateProp]

He's saving the world from Aliens.

Not robbing a bank.

I guess we're in that phase where it's okay to be ***** to everyone without reading their posts again...

Oh well, just reminds me why I keep leaving this thread over and over :/

 

[Sour Supreme]

I guess we're in that phase where it's okay to be ****s to everyone without reading their posts again...

Oh well, just reminds me why I keep leaving this thread over and over :/

I've read all your posts. I don't mean to be a ****. I'm just emphasizing that I dislike the idea.

This thread is made for opinions.

 

[Solbliminal]

Not at all? I was joking clearly, did you not see the "jklucas" part?

What does that have to do Ninten? Be clear with your joke, because it makes no sense.

And how does having the original bandanna design make him look angsty?

>You want him to sport an angry expression.
>You want him to wear his bandanna around his face.

Explain to me how that does not sound angsty.

It honestly looks better than the boyscout one in my opinion. Pulling it up was just a suggestion, and it makes sense that he would possibly use it as a mask because of his asthma to block out dust or something.

And I gave my opinion about how it doesn't fit his character. It doesn't make me a jerk for disagreeing with you.

 

[PlateProp]

What does that have to do Ninten? Be clear with your joke, because it makes no sense.



>You want him to sport an angry expression.
>You want him to wear his bandanna around his face.

Explain to me how that does not sound angsty.



And I gave my opinion about how it doesn't fit his character. It doesn't make me a jerk for disagreeing with you.

I never said you were a jerk at all.

I was joking about the angry expression, as I have stated about 3 times now, which you're ignoring.

Wearing a bandanna around your face doesn't make you angsty at all. ****, it was just a taunt suggestion. I even provided a logical explanation for why he would even do so but you seem to want to ignore it too and claim "oh angst" instead.

 

[TRJV]

He's saving the world from Aliens.

Not robbing a bank.

He has Asthma right? He'd just be trying to keep pollen out of his face.

 

[Solbliminal]

I never said you were a jerk at all.

I guess we're in that phase where it's okay to be ****s to everyone without reading their posts again...

Oh well, just reminds me why I keep leaving this thread over and over :/

I was joking about the angry expression, as I have stated about 3 times now.

No you didn't. You said you were joking and never clarified what you were joking about. Hence why I said your joke wasn't clear enough. Chill out.

Wearing a bandanna around your face doesn't make you angsty at all. ****, it was just a taunt suggestion. I even provided a logical explanation for why he would even do so but you seem to want to ignore it and claim "oh angst".

Yes. It does. Wearing a bandanna over ones face is an implied sign of a thug, and that is exactly how it would be perceived by the masses. It is fine as a taunt suggestion, but him wearing it on his face is honestly a no in my book. Considering he has Asthma, he could just use his inhaler as a taunt.

But anyways, the way you are reacting is really uncalled for. It is just an unofficial design. MY unofficial design. I'm allowed to disagree with suggestions. And just because I don't take every suggestion thrown at me doesn't mean I'm ignoring you. I gave you a very clear reason why I don't agree with your suggestion. Take it however you like, but I just don't agree with it.

 

[PlateProp]

No you didn't. You said you were joking and never clarified what you were joking about. Hence why I said your joke wasn't clear enough. Chill out.



Yes. It does. Wearing a bandanna over ones face is an implied sign of a thug, and that is exactly how it would be perceived by the masses. It is fine as a taunt suggestion, but him wearing it on his face is honestly a no in my book. Considering he has Asthma, he could just use his inhaler as a taunt.

But anyways, the way you are reacting is really uncalled for. It is just an unofficial design. MY unofficial design. I'm allowed to disagree with suggestions. And just because I don't take every suggestion thrown at me doesn't mean I'm ignoring you. I gave you a very clear reason why I don't agree with your suggestion. Take it however you like, but I just don't agree with it.

I'll just never argue with you again Sol because i'll always be wrong, even with my own thoughts. GG bro, you win.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

When are results gonna be posted again?

 

[Solbliminal]

I'll just never argue with you again Sol because i'll always be wrong, even with my own thoughts. GG bro, you win.

I'm not sure why you think that I'm trying to argue. All I've been doing is trying to tell you that I just don't agree with the suggestion. There is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinion. That is why it is called an opinion.

When are results gonna be posted again?

They will be posted when they are ready. We don't have an exact time. Sorry for the wait. It shouldn't be too much longer.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Ninten is the new Pichu.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Ninten is the new Pichu.

You take that back

Spoiler

nah but in what way though?

 

[Sour Supreme]

You take that back

Spoiler

nah but in what way though?

Salt.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Salt.

Ah, that clears things up.

No matter, I always throw salt over my shoulder for good luck anyway

 

[LEGOfan12]

Ninten is the new Pichu.

You mean for how controversial he's become in this topic?

 

[Das Koopa]

+1 Ridley.

-Could be a Charizard derivative. Both share tail attacks, fire attributes, and aerial presence.

Perhaps make Ridley a perpetual floater with his wings persistently flapping. Maybe only keep him slightly off the ground. If was to be completely unique, I'd suggest "modes" where he's slow and walks on the ground, but by activating his up B he'd fly and would be restricted to aerials or something. I doubt this is feasible for Project M, so I'm going with the simplistic route of just making him float and having constant access to his move like any normal character.

Ridley as a whole could be very aerial-based and be very vulnerable on the ground. A potential example is that he has devastating ground attacks, but they have tons of lag and generally aren't feasible to use (including most tilts). Maybe make a couple of exceptions in his ground attacks by giving him some good weak tilts that inflict minimal damage but get combos going by leading into good neutral/forward/down air attacks.

Example:

Side tilt is a head jab that angles the opponent upwards, leads into neutral air wing expansion that sends them forward, finish with a down air spike with his tail. Would obviously be easier at higher percentages and he'd need to rack up damage before attempting this.



Make it where he's good at racking up damage in the air, but where his large size makes it possible to counter so it isn't so easy to juggle the opponent without some good reads. He should be good in the air, but not god-like to the point where an opponent can't escape aerial combos.

You could have his specials be similar to Zard's, but give them properties that make them unique in usage. His standard B could be a unique out-of-shield option that very quickly activates a burst of short range flame that causes knockback, but fizzles out almost immediately. His side special could be a purely knockback-before-damage focused wind gust that's use to get out combos or create spacing only in scenarios where you're getting assaulted from the the front.

Maybe give him the ability to aerial grab, but weaken his down, back, and forward throws as a result. Keep Zard's up throw and make it a suicide move in midair.

In essence:

-Give him a large size so he's easy to hit.
-Make him aerial combo-oriented and terrible on ground outside of a couple of decent combo-starting tilts.
-Make his out-of-shield options unique since up smash wouldn't be feasible with his poor ground speed and since he'll probably receive a lot of shield pressure.
-Give him aerial grabs to further emphasize his aerial focus.

These are mostly just suggests for how making Ridley could go. I don't think at this point he's likely for Smash 4, so I'm pitching my vote here so maybe we can finally play as Ridley. I have confidence that the PM Team could make it work and work well, hopefully without the strenuous work it took to make Mewtwo. (hence why I suggest him as a derivative of Charizard since the two share many traits)

 

[Shin F.]

Just getting an alert that there has been activity in this thread makes me feel dread.

 

[GunBuster]

Just getting an alert that there has been activity in this thread makes me feel dread.

don't worry, it's just me thinking Ness should get the Ninten clothes alt and be done with it.

 

[Sour Supreme]

You mean for how controversial he's become in this topic?

Yes.

 

[Sour Supreme]

don't worry, it's just me thinking Ness should get the Ninten clothes alt and be done with it.

It's people like you that make me cry. ;-;

Just kidding. But in all seriousness, how would you feel if Luigi was cut and Mario just had a green recolor?

Like that's just disappointing.

 

[Shin F.]

don't worry, it's just me thinking Ness should get the Ninten clothes alt and be done with it.

Lol, as if that could even affect me. It's not ideal for me, but believe it or not I'd personally be fine with that as long as the costume is good, even though it would be one less character who could make an easy clone.

No, it's just the general atmosphere of this thread. It's toxic. Sometimes we can have plenty of fun, but the above argument just shows how easy it gets bad in here over basically nothing. If I wasn't counting votes now, I'd have already stopped watching it.

 

[GunBuster]

It's people like you that make me cry. ;-;

Just kidding. But in all seriousness, how would you feel if Luigi was cut and Mario just had a green recolor?

Like that's just disappointing.

I never thought of it that way, I concede, but I don't think that's an apt comparison as Ninten is not Ness's brother, number 2 guy, his "Luigi", anything like that - he's Ness's precursor who he is an absolute character export of.

 

[Friesnchip]

Good job everyone, you've made Psykid and Shin sad.

Why can't we just have collective, constructive conversations (that alliteration, though) towards the fleshing out of possible clone engine candidates without all the salt?
This kind of stuff never happens when we talk about Isaac.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Good job everyone, you've made Psykid and Shin sad.

Why can't we just have collective, constructive conversations (that alliteration, though) towards the fleshing out of possible clone engine candidates without all the salt?
This kind of stuff never happens when we talk about Isaac.

My feels... They ache. ;-;

I never thought of it that way, I concede, but I don't think that's an apt comparison as Ninten is not Ness's brother, number 2 guy, his "Luigi", anything like that - he's Ness's precursor who he is an absolute character export of.

They look similar, yeah. But, this is because of the technological limits of the games' systems.

In game they are very different characters. And as we've explained, Ninten's design can be worked to look very different and still represent his appearance in Mother 1 well.

That's actually one of my favorite things about the character. Some people see it as,

He has a sprite design that's just like Ness. Guess he'd just look like Ness.

I see it as,

He has a sprite design that looks like Ness. Now we as a community have the opportunity to make a more original design with what we have.

 

[LEGOfan12]

For Tails/Knuckles/Shadow's cons, how is "Yet another 3rd-party character." supposed to be a con? Those 3 characters are already licensed to be in Brawl in some way, so how would being 3rd-party be a bad thing? I'm confused.