New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Shin F.]

Oh right. Now I feel dumb for something that I completely overlooked.

No need to feel dumb. It's easy to overlook something like that when you get excited over an idea.

 

[Solbliminal]

A. K. A. A wolf type clone.

There was literally no reason you needed to quote me and say that.

 

[Sour Supreme]

There was literally no reason you needed to quote me and say that.

Yeah.

Get it?

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

Sup guys, man I haven't been here sense march!

 

[Hagrid]

I agree in principal about too many clones of the same moveset being a bad thing, but just to clarify, Lucas is not a Clone. He and Ness only have like 5-6 moves in common. The rest of his moveset is entirely original. It's the same situation as Wolf.

Also, I very much doubt Lyn would be just a third Marth.

I agree Lucas isn't a clone (which is why I avoided using the term). But with those 5-6 moves in common he still feels like he is based off Ness, and if you were to add Ninten using ness as a base again, it wouldn't feel like a good representation of the Mother series.

 

[Shin F.]

I agree Lucas isn't a clone (which is why I avoided using the term). But with those 5-6 moves in common he still feels like he is based off Ness, and if you were to add Ninten using ness as a base again, it wouldn't feel like a good representation of the Mother series.

I feel like it would be a great representation of the series, and it wouldn't be hard to make Ninten feel incredibly different with just a few tweaks. He can easily be a Ness/Lucas hybrid since the two share similar bone structures, which already means he'd only be a half-clone of the two. Adding new specials (especially his signature 4th-D Slip as a teleporting up-special), giving a couple more moves with his tools (bat and such, since the others hardly use them) and changing his physics (perhaps he could be more slippery like Luigi) could make him feel like an entirely new character with minimal effort.

 

[Solbliminal]

I feel like it would be a great representation of the series, and it wouldn't be hard to make Ninten feel incredibly different with just a few tweaks. He can easily be a Ness/Lucas hybrid since the two share similar bone structures, which already means he'd only be a half-clone of the two. Adding new specials (especially his signature 4th-D Slip as a teleporting up-special), giving a couple more moves with his tools (bat and such, since the others hardly use them) and changing his physics (perhaps he could be more slippery like Luigi) could make him feel like an entirely new character with minimal effort.

I'll break out the image since I know we will need it for almost every time the subject is brought up:

 

[Ganondalf]

I think the number or clones in a single series should be kept to a minimum. Like having Ninten as a third Ness, or Lyn as a third Marth would be annoying. Dark Samus is a good choice because the Metroid series doesn't already have a cloned character.

I agree with this. The more flexibility we can provide the better. Dark Samus is a clone but also the second rep of a series as well as being relatively unique. Honestly, even if Dark Samus is a clone, she (it?) can be made to play very differently. Throw in Snake-esque bombs and explosions with Samus' A-moves and you have an interesting character. Thats why I don't see Ninten or -another- pokemon being interesting enough. Sure they are beloved characters but to make another Ness clone I feel would not only be a slap in the face to fans and the series but also a lot of effort or an extreemly small group of people who already have a choice between Ness and Lucas for their particular playstyles. A faster Samus is something people may want to try or perhaps a floatier snake. etc.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I feel like it would be a great representation of the series, and it wouldn't be hard to make Ninten feel incredibly different with just a few tweaks. He can easily be a Ness/Lucas hybrid since the two share similar bone structures, which already means he'd only be a half-clone of the two. Adding new specials (especially his signature 4th-D Slip as a teleporting up-special), giving a couple more moves with his tools (bat and such, since the others hardly use them) and changing his physics (perhaps he could be more slippery like Luigi) could make him feel like an entirely new character with minimal effort.

And Wolf-like clones are more conceptually exciting than close clones anyway. A trio of Mother protagonists that all share some specials but otherwise play very differently helps keep all 3 characters diverse enough to adequately rep the Mother games.

 

[NisforSmash]

Change thread title to Ninten discussion thread.

But another thing which really would seperate ninten from ness if you hadn't noticed already is the backpack. At a glance ness would have a large portrusion coming from his back where ninten's frame would look more like lucas'. Also I kinda feel the ninten looks too similar to ness argument is played out. If it's really that big of a deal just swap his default color scheme. Luigi is visually almost identical to mario except in that he's green. Falco and fox are similar as well.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

They should make Ninten taller than both ness and Lucas, just for difference sake.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Lucas feels nothing like Ness in PM, which proves what the PMDT is capable of doing.

They share few moves, and even ones they do like PK Thunder operate in very different manners.

 

[Ganondalf]

Lucas feels nothing like Ness in PM, which proves what the PMDT is capable of doing.

They share few moves, and even ones they do like PK Thunder operate in very different manners.

Yeah but he is still a clone. He looks similar in terms of his model. His B-moves are similar and his movements are similar. Sure they play differently but they are still considerably more similar than say, Donkey Kong is to Diddy or Mario is to Wario. I'm ok with another Earthbound character, but can we have a villain? Or maybe a not-ness-look-alike? Surely there are better choices out there than a kid who looks very similar to Ness, has Psi powers, like Ness and even has a similar color scheme to Ness.

 

[Shin F.]

Yeah but he is still a clone.

Lolwut? No, he isn't. In terms of shared moves, Luigi is more of a Clone than Lucas is. His movements are entirely different from Ness with the exception of about 5 moves. Know what? Hang on. Just to show what I mean, here:

Spoiler

Jab:
Ness - Punch, punch, kick
Lucas - Psi attack, Psi attack

F-tilt:
Ness - Kick
Lucas - Psi sweep with hand

D-tilt (Cloned Move 1, different speeds):
Ness - Rapid low kick
Lucas - Same animation, much slower

U-tilt:
Ness - Thrusts hands up into air
Lucas - Psi charged backflip kick

F-Smash (Cloned Move 2, different sweetspots):
Ness - Bat
Lucas - Stick

U-Smash:
Ness - Yoyo
Lucas - Upwards PSI Attack

D-Smash:
Ness - Yoyo
Lucas - Downwards PSI Attack

Dash:
Ness - Multiple two-handed bursts of PSI
Lucas - Single one-handed PSI attack

Nair:
Ness - Spins with arms outstretched
Lucas - Flips while charged with PSI

Fair:
Ness - Multiple PSI hits with hands
Lucas - PSI-charged kick

Bair:
Ness - Backwards dropkick
Lucas - Backflip kick w/ meteor

Dair:
Ness - Spike with foot
Lucas - Multiple downwards kicks

Uair (Cloned Move 3):
Ness - Headbutt
Lucas - Headbutt

NSpecial:
Ness - PK Flash
Lucas - Offense Up

FSpecial:
Ness - PK Fire (multi-hit, trapping)
Lucas - PK Freeze (single hit, much hitlag)

DSpecial (Cloned Move 4):
Ness - PSI Magnet
Lucas - PSI Magnet

USpecial (Cloned Move 5, different function on hit):
Ness - PK Thunder
Lucas - PK Thunder

Final Smash (Cloned Move 6 - does this even count? Who even uses these?):
Ness - PK Starstorm
Lucas - PK Starstorm

6 moves. Off the top of my head, Mario and Luigi share at least 9 or 10 and hardly anyone calls them anything more than a Semi-Clone. Lucas is a Quarter-Clone at best.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Yeah but he is still a clone. He looks similar in terms of his model. His B-moves are similar and his movements are similar. Sure they play differently but they are still considerably more similar than say, Donkey Kong is to Diddy or Mario is to Wario. I'm ok with another Earthbound character, but can we have a villain? Or maybe a not-ness-look-alike? Surely there are better choices out there than a kid who looks very similar to Ness, has Psi powers, like Ness and even has a similar color scheme to Ness.

Hold the phone, brother.

PK Thunder and Over-smash are the only moves that noticeably act remotely similar to eachother. PK Thunder has different qualities and over-smash is altered just thought the use of OffenseUp (A move that sets the two apart greatly.)

As we've already stated and presented, Ninten doesn't have to look like Ness. You act as though the PMDT will just recolor Ness's model and then throw it in there and call it Ninten.

Also, yes, Lucas is still a clone. I never said he wasn't. The fact that you brought him being a clone up further proves my point. Because while he is a clone he feels and acts extremely different.

If you can be ok with Luigi or Lucas's moveset, Ninten's would be just as, if not more original as their moves.

 

[Anti Guy]

Lolwut? No, he isn't. In terms of shared moves, Luigi is more of a Clone than Lucas is. His movements are entirely different from Ness with the exception of about 5 moves. Know what? Hang on. Just to show what I mean, here:

Spoiler

Jab:
Ness - Punch, punch, kick
Lucas - Psi attack, Psi attack

F-tilt:
Ness - Kick
Lucas - Psi sweep with hand

D-tilt (Cloned Move 1, different speeds):
Ness - Rapid low kick
Lucas - Same animation, much slower

U-tilt:
Ness - Thrusts hands up into air
Lucas - Psi charged backflip kick

F-Smash (Cloned Move 2, different sweetspots):
Ness - Bat
Lucas - Stick

U-Smash:
Ness - Yoyo
Lucas - Upwards PSI Attack

D-Smash:
Ness - Yoyo
Lucas - Downwards PSI Attack

Dash:
Ness - Multiple two-handed bursts of PSI
Lucas - Single one-handed PSI attack

Nair:
Ness - Spins with arms outstretched
Lucas - Flips while charged with PSI

Fair:
Ness - Multiple PSI hits with hands
Lucas - PSI-charged kick

Bair:
Ness - Backwards dropkick
Lucas - Backflip kick w/ meteor

Dair:
Ness - Spike with foot
Lucas - Multiple downwards kicks

Uair (Cloned Move 3):
Ness - Headbutt
Lucas - Headbutt

NSpecial:
Ness - PK Flash
Lucas - Offense Up

FSpecial:
Ness - PK Fire (multi-hit, trapping)
Lucas - PK Freeze (single hit, much hitlag)

DSpecial (Cloned Move 4):
Ness - PSI Magnet
Lucas - PSI Magnet

USpecial (Cloned Move 5, different function on hit):
Ness - PK Thunder
Lucas - PK Thunder

Final Smash (Cloned Move 6 - does this even count? Who even uses these?):
Ness - PK Starstorm
Lucas - PK Starstorm

6 moves. Off the top of my head, Mario and Luigi share at least 9 or 10 and hardly anyone calls them anything more than a Semi-Clone. Lucas is a Quarter-Clone at best.

Despite their differences, PK Fire and PK Freeze are also clone moves.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Despite their differences, PK Fire and PK Freeze are also clone moves.

Hardly. They affect the opponent in completely different ways. All that they share is a launch animation. And even that appears differently graphically.

 

[Shin F.]

Despite their differences, PK Fire and PK Freeze are also clone moves.

Literally the only thing they have in common is "A projectile that moves forward". They move different distances, have different effects, move at different angles, and have different graphics. By that definition, they're both clones of Samus' Missiles.

 

[Anti Guy]

Literally the only thing they have in common is "A projectile that moves forward". They move different distances, have different effects, move at different angles, and have different graphics. By that definition, they're both clones of Samus' Missile.

Everything you said are all just modifiable parameters. They still use similar attack animations and unlike Samus' missile, are fixed distance attacks. In fact, there's nothing else in the game that I can think of that's similar except Luigi's fireball.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Literally the only thing they have in common is "A projectile that moves forward". They move different distances, have different effects, move at different angles, and have different graphics. By that definition, they're both clones of Samus' Missiles.

Welcome back to Pulp Fiction by Shintin Tarantino.

 

[AuraShaman]

Just to break the atmosphere of the PK Fires, I wanna announce that I've made yet another edit to my votes. I dunno about detailed votes, but I've added the recommendation of Ridley having a Meta Ridley alt if he's included. You can read it all here. http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-479#post-17402631

 

[Shin F.]

Everything you said are all just modifiable parameters. They still use similar attack animations and unlike Samus' missile, are fixed distance attacks. In fact, there's nothing else in the game that I can think of that's similar except Luigi's fireball.

Super Missile would've been a better example I suppose.

In any case, it almost doesn't matter since that still makes Lucas less of a Clone than Luigi and not much more of a Clone than Wolf.

 

[Xermo]

+1: Skull Kid, Isaac, Masked Man, Ninten, Sami
1/2: Dixie, Sukapon, Saki, Lyn

k

 

[_rumbler97]

+1 on Waluigi, black shadow/ganon switch, ridly, lyn, and Isaac

+1/2 on ray mk 3, hector, tom nook, and sukopan (just played the game and it is addictive)



-1 on toad due to the fact that mario series already has 5 people and we don't really need another mario clone as we have mario, dr mario (yes I'm counting him) and luigi (to some extent)

 

[LEGOfan12]

If an assist trophy character was made playable (Isaac, Shadow, Samurai Goroh, etc.), would the PMDT remove that assist trophy?

 

[Shin F.]

If an assist trophy character was made playable (Isaac, Shadow, Samurai Goroh, etc.), would the PMDT remove that assist trophy?

I would assume they would replace it with a similar character. IE if Isaac is chosen, they would replace him with Felix.

 

[LEGOfan12]

I would assume they would replace it with a similar character. IE if Isaac is chosen, they would replace him with Felix.

Okay, thank you for answering.

 

[GunBuster]

haaah.

just had an amazing thought for an ^B move for any advance wars character.
city capturing.
you know how in game troops jump down on cities to cap them, and once capped they shoot up to normal size in the team color? imagine that last part, but it shoots Andy/Sami up in a jump (no helpless state), similar to Sonic's spring, but instead of falling it just disappears once done. hell, brawl even has a "growing city" animation from the Dr. Wright assist trophy.

of course, it suits Sami a bit more because of her whole capturing gimmick...

 

[Chevy]

I'm not sure i agree. While k rool would be another villian, he seems idk obscure or something to me. Dixie's had more screen time so i think she'd deserve the spot moreso. Plus if k rool made it in that would be a strange trio.... donkey kong, diddy kong and....king k rool? Even donkey kong jr. fits better with the other two. I mean i like k rool as a doinkey kong character but he just doesn't have as much an impact as dixie did. Plus i feel dixie's moveset would be more....likeable.

K. Rool is only "obscure" relatively because Dixie was recently in Tropical Freeze. Dixie also hasn't had more screen time than K.Rool, he's been the villain in almost every post Country DK game. Donkey Kong Jr. is DK btw, or his dad or something? Anyway K. Rool is a villain, a fatty, and another DK rep, all of which we could use more of. The moveset and alt costume potential is through the roof, too. He is by far the most worthwhile addition in my eyes. It's just a shame that he would require so much work.

 

[NisforSmash]

K. Rool is only "obscure" relatively because Dixie was recently in Tropical Freeze. Dixie also hasn't had more screen time than K.Rool, he's been the villain in almost every post Country DK game. Donkey Kong Jr. is DK btw, or his dad or something? Anyway K. Rool is a villain, a fatty, and another DK rep, all of which we could use more of. The moveset and alt costume potential is through the roof, too. He is by far the most worthwhile addition in my eyes. It's just a shame that he would require so much work.

His obscurity isn't due to his lack of being in tropical freeze which i haven't played for the record. It's due to his odd body proportions making him likely based more off of d3 than any other character and let's face it heavies aren't exactly the easiest characters to design especially in this kind of game. We don't NEED another fatty or villian. While it would be nice to have some more characters that fill that role it's just more plausible and less of a hassle for them to work with more balanced characters which compared to rool, dixie is. I'm not saying he isn't worthy of a spot but i feel dixie would complete the trio better and her moveset would be less complex in its design providing for a lighter workload. While he is the main villain in the series you have to remember that people are more familiar with the character in the series whom they've played as the most. Importance for me goes down from there based on screen time and relevance to plot.

 

[PlateProp]

I feel like K. Rool doesn't deserve a spot, nor does Dixie.

They would be wastes of a slot personally

 

[muleet]

Adding characters is an important thing, and I don't see how adding even semi-clones would fit the the level of importance it represents. It may be difficult to add brand new movesets, and takes month, but what is the point of having a character like Dixie if we have Diddy ? I'm sorry but I think I would prefer to have no new characters at all than to have some of the characters quoted in this thread, that would seem to be a waste of time for the PMBR and for what PM would then represents, (what would make it "different" and interesting, from the point of view of other players) according to me. I understand Ninten could have a nice moveset, and that he could be another "quarter clone", but Mother 1 is the only Mother game I finished yet, and I don't see why anyone would like to play this generic guy again (even Waluigi seem to have more personality than him). Same for Dark Samus, she is just another Samus, the Nintendo characters can do better than that. http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Microsoft Smash Bros.. Halo at it s best. Not mine_362690_4117405.jpg

Edit : Sami, on the other hand for example, even if she becomes a clone/semi-clone from Snake, she would be a way more understandable choice since her series is not yet represented.

 

[U-Throw]

Adding characters is an important thing, and I don't see how adding even semi-clones would fit the the level of importance it represents. It may be difficult to add brand new movesets, and takes month, but what is the point of having a character like Dixie if we have Diddy ? I'm sorry but I think I would prefer to have no new characters at all than to have some of the characters quoted in this thread, that would seem to be a waste of time for the PMBR and for what PM would then represents, (what would make it "different" and interesting, from the point of view of other players) according to me. I understand Ninten could have a nice moveset, and that he could be another "quarter clone", but Mother 1 is the only Mother game I finished yet, and I don't see why anyone would like to play this generic guy again (even Waluigi seem to have more personality than him). Same for Dark Samus, she is just another Samus, the Nintendo characters can do better than that. http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Microsoft Smash Bros.. Halo at it s best. Not mine_362690_4117405.jpg

Edit : Sami, on the other hand for example, even if she becomes a clone/semi-clone from Snake, she would be a way more understandable choice since her series is not yet represented.

I don't think you understand how the Clone Engine works. It's actually GOOD for a character to be a clone. The Clone Engine takes a character and heavily modifies them into a different character, basically speaking. They can add different models and even more bones, in extreme cases, like Mewtwo. But, we don't want another Mewtwo. Mewtwo was, probably, an isolated case when it comes to the Clone Engine. If I remember correctly, his Over-B, Confusion, is a command grab, and I read that command grabs are incredibly messy and buggy, making them very difficult to get working. If I read right awhile back, it was so messy, they went so far as to say no new Clone Engine characters can have them. It's a miracle that they were even able to make him, actually. The overwhelming differences probably make him almost impossible. The PMDT doesn't need another burden like him, and I think I can safely say they are not going to hell and back a second time. And, just so you know, it's possible to clone a character and have them play drastically differently by editing factors such as angle-of-knockback, amount of damage, knockback power, and various other properties. Just look at Mario and Luigi. Their neutral aerials, for example, despite similar appearance, add "completely different flavors" to their movesets, to quote the PMDT's blogpost. If I'm not mistaken, the OP has information on this subject, so please go read it.

 

[NisforSmash]

Adding characters is an important thing, and I don't see how adding even semi-clones would fit the the level of importance it represents.

Edit : Sami, on the other hand for example, even if she becomes a clone/semi-clone from Snake, she would be a way more understandable choice since her series is not yet represented.

Hard to argue with you when your argument is arguing with itself.

 

[JCOnyx]

His obscurity isn't due to his lack of being in tropical freeze which i haven't played for the record. It's due to his odd body proportions making him likely based more off of d3 than any other character and let's face it heavies aren't exactly the easiest characters to design especially in this kind of game. We don't NEED another fatty or villian. While it would be nice to have some more characters that fill that role it's just more plausible and less of a hassle for them to work with more balanced characters which compared to rool, dixie is. I'm not saying he isn't worthy of a spot but i feel dixie would complete the trio better and her moveset would be less complex in its design providing for a lighter workload. While he is the main villain in the series you have to remember that people are more familiar with the character in the series whom they've played as the most. Importance for me goes down from there based on screen time and relevance to plot.

I'd have to disagree with you here Nis. While you have the opportunity to play as Dixie in 2 of the 3 main snes titles and tropical, KKR was the major villain of all three main titles (which I'd argue are the most important to represent in the first place). In fact, having DK, Diddy, and KKR would completely represent the first DKC title perfectly. While I would personally prefer to see Dixie make it in, KKR is by no means an inferior choice and they'd both be pretty difficult to incorporate in the first place. I believe it would just come down to the PMDT tastes on who gets in if they decided to add a new DK rep.

 

[muleet]

Thanks for answering U-Throw, I understand that. I had already understood partially what you said about the clone engine, and I do think Mario and Luigi, or even Ness and Lucas, are really different.

Nisforsmash > Yes sorry this part was unclear. I shouldn't have said "semi-clone" at the beginning, but instead more original characters. I meant that Sami, as a semi-clone would be legitimate, anyone would understand in what way her moves are different from Snake, while, even if a lots of people may know the Mother series, Ninten/Ness/Lucas don't evoke something different enough for the SSB, especially Ninten, so it would be an "artificial moveset", in a way... (You may say that a lots of moveset in SSB are artificial, like how Falcon never do what he does outside of the SSB series, but I think there is truly a limit.) An original Ninten would be "too" PM-esque, and would have no sequel (or should have no sequel) in the future of video game. If you had someone like Skull Kid or Sami, everyone would understand what could be his original moves even before playing it, while when I play Lucas (I don't play him much) I understand he can be truly powerful and fun for a SSB, but I don't see real logic about why he should be so different from Ness. Ninten, coming from a NES game, would be even weirder. A well-designed character should have a supposable moveset for players even before they start playing it, (or at least a bit) if it is not, it does not make most people want to try (that's my opinion at least).
That's why I didn't tried Lucas. While playing him, I didn't had to understand a "video game character", but a "SSB character".

 

[_Ganondorf_]

+1/2 for Takamaru (I never knew about him. if possible I would prefer him over my Full vote for Lyn, since his series isn't represented in PM and we already have 3 Fire Emblem characters)
+1/2 for Ray MK II (or III)
+1/2 for prince Sable
+1/2 for King K. Rool (I believe I didn't vote for him yet)
+1/2 for Dark Samus (full vote if Ridley is not eligible)
+1/2 for Ninten (with scarf )

EDIT: +1/2 for Rock Hawk (YEAH!)

Also;
+1/2 for Skull Kid
+1/2 for Masked Man
+1/2 for Dixie Kong

 

[Xermo]

That's why I didn't tried Lucas. While playing him, I didn't had to understand a "video game character", but a "SSB character".

Sounds to me that you simply don't understand the Mother series as a whole. Lucas is literally a walking Mother 3 tribute. You yourself said you didn't even make it past the first game, so why would you expect to understand the character design of someone from the third (let alone the second)?
That philosophy is also pretty whack. All the characters are video game characters. If that's the case, Falcon, ganon, sheik, zss, and spacies are all SSB characters because they certainly aren't true to the source material.

 

[NisforSmash]

I'd have to disagree with you here Nis. While you have the opportunity to play as Dixie in 2 of the 3 main snes titles and tropical, KKR was the major villain of all three main titles (which I'd argue are the most important to represent in the first place). In fact, having DK, Diddy, and KKR would completely represent the first DKC title perfectly. While I would personally prefer to see Dixie make it in, KKR is by no means an inferior choice and they'd both be pretty difficult to incorporate in the first place. I believe it would just come down to the PMDT tastes on who gets in if they decided to add a new DK rep.

Fair enough. I don't think KKR is inferior but i personally would rather see dixie as you said.

Thanks for answering U-Throw, I understand that. I had already understood partially what you said about the clone engine, and I do think Mario and Luigi, or even Ness and Lucas, are really different.

Nisforsmash > Yes sorry this part was unclear. I shouldn't have said "semi-clone" at the beginning, but instead more original characters. I meant that Sami, as a semi-clone would be legitimate, anyone would understand in what way her moves are different from Snake, while, even if a lots of people may know the Mother series, Ninten/Ness/Lucas don't evoke something different enough for the SSB, especially Ninten, so it would be an "artificial moveset", in a way... (You may say that a lots of moveset in SSB are artificial, like how Falcon never do what he does outside of the SSB series, but I think there is truly a limit.) An original Ninten would be "too" PM-esque, and would have no sequel (or should have no sequel) in the future of video game. If you had someone like Skull Kid or Sami, everyone would understand what could be his original moves even before playing it, while when I play Lucas (I don't play him much) I understand he can be truly powerful and fun for a SSB, but I don't see real logic about why he should be so different from Ness. Ninten, coming from a NES game, would be even weirder. A well-designed character should have a supposable moveset for players even before they start playing it, (or at least a bit) if it is not, it does not make most people want to try (that's my opinion at least).
That's why I didn't tried Lucas. While playing him, I didn't had to understand a "video game character", but a "SSB character".

While the grammar was a bit butchered and tough to read i can see where you're coming from though i'm not sure i agree. You're saying that Ninten would have moves ingame that wouldn't represent his actual moves. I'll refer you to the Ninten PR department. Paging @ Solbliminal and @ Shin F.

 

[Solbliminal]

While the grammar was a bit butchered and tough to read i can see where you're coming from though i'm not sure i agree. You're saying that Ninten would have moves ingame that wouldn't represent his actual moves. I'll refer you to the Ninten PR department. Paging @ Solbliminal and @ Shin F.

Blend of Ness and Lucas, or possibly unique. Would likely receive a revamp to his design, blablabla...