• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chzrm3

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
625
3DS FC
3926-5442-3703
I'm curious as to how many of these people voting already play project m and as to whether their votes should be as significant... i've changed my mind. PMBR please just use your best judgements and don't take any of these votes into serious account, including mine. I've already seen people here voting for Toad, so it's only a matter of time before we start seeing stupid things like Pac-man and Joseph the Hedgehog (original character).

I don't think they were ever going to base the characters that they chose on people's votes - this is just for fun. They're smash fans, too, so it'd be pretty weird to ask them to do 700 hours of work to make some other smash fan's dream roster a reality. If they're gonna make more characters, it'll 100% be characters that they want.

That said, Toad is awesome. : P
 

Anti Guy

Couch Tomato
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 27, 2001
Messages
2,072
Location
Wisconsin
NNID
CouchTomato87
I'm curious as to how many of these people voting already play project m and as to whether their votes should be as significant... i've changed my mind. PMBR please just use your best judgements and don't take any of these votes into serious account, including mine. I've already seen people here voting for Toad, so it's only a matter of time before we start seeing stupid things like Pac-man and Joseph the Hedgehog (original character).

There's always gonna be a ****show. It's the nature of this kind of thing. You just gotta expect the majority to be reasonable, and if the vote truly is dumb, there's only gonna be 1 or 2 and it won't see the light anyways. Treat it as background noise.
 

Giygacoal

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,651
This is what we're doing now? Alright.

Yes Votes:
Ridley
Lyn

I don't know, because they'll probably be in Smash 4:
Isaac
King K. Rool
Bowser Jr.

Down Votes:
Waluigi: Inherently a pointless character, but he'd be great to represent all the Mario Party/Sports games. However, he can't be pulled off in P:M because he would needs lots of articles to properly portray this concept.
Toad: No moveset opportunity as far as I can see.
Pichu: Memorialize with the costume engine and move on. There's hardly any moveset potential as far as I can tell.
Toon Zelda/Sheik
Young Link: See Pichu.

I have no solid opinion about the Black Shadow/Ganondorf switch thing. I guess I wouldn't be bothered by it.
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
Since I haven't posted yet... my votes:

I am against the character in that he doesn't seem doable. Before you start going into grandiose movesets (which has already been done)... how do you think the PMBR can actually create his moves? There is no character that has a gun and sword. You can mimic a sword character, but he won't have a gun. You need to have an article for a gun. You can mimic a character with a blaster (like a spacey), but they won't have a sword. It'd be nice if someone in the PMBR can verify this, but I just don't think it's possible. Also, speaking of movesets... if you feel really strongly about a character, you don't need to map out each attack. Just describe it in general. Focus more on if it's possible given modding constraints rather than "THIS COULD BE HIS MOVESET FOR SSB4" (where anything is possible).

BronzeGreekGod, to answer your question about Ray-Mk II, tell me more about the character (I never played Custom Robo) and then tell me if you realistically think he's moddable.

Oh, I didn't see this!! :p

Okay so first of all I wanted to mention this, and hopefully with this quoted post it will stand out more. This issue came up with the voting and I think a new rule should be added. You should state that ONLY characters in your outline in your first post should be allowed to be voted for. Other votes should be seen as invalid. This will eliminate silly votes from people who are less experienced with P:M, or who are a bit younger, OR who simply aren't that great at character speculation lol.

Okay next, the Saki thing.. Couldn't a gun character be used as a base, and then add a sword bone to them? Or, couldn't a sword be added only to their texture, and then hit bubbles attached to where the sword is?

And Ray. I'm not sure what else to say about him. If you read the description and watch the video I posted, it's pretty self explanatory from that point.
Hes been in a couple of games, the franchise is a bit smaller, but he would be a great fit in smash bros. There are many interesting/weird characters who were added in Melee and Brawl who no one knew about/hadn't though about in AGES, so adding someone from a smaller franchise would be fantastic. And him and Saki WERE added as assist trophies, so I think Sakurai must have at least thought about putting more work into adding them as full characters at some point! Plus I think another tech based character would be great to add to the game, especially since Megaman is a no no.
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
Ray MKII seems like a pretty fine choice. I'm a sucker for robot characters for some reason.
How would you handle his size (issue)? (I know nothing about the franhcise, what's the difference between MKI, MKII, and MKIII? Are they the same characters?)

I'd leave his size as his Assist Trophy version. Or at least upscale him to Olimar's size.
Haven't really played Custom Robo, but I've always been interested in it. And from his moves in Brawl I see he could at least have some pretty awesome directional laser fire and missiles.

I'd 100% resize him. Id make him bigger than Olimar tho. Olimars actual size is way smaller than Ray is as an assist trophy.

If you look above, i made a post with more info and videos about Ray. Check it out if u want
 

Anti Guy

Couch Tomato
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 27, 2001
Messages
2,072
Location
Wisconsin
NNID
CouchTomato87
Oh, I didn't see this!! :p

Okay so first of all I wanted to mention this, and hopefully with this quoted post it will stand out more. This issue came up with the voting and I think a new rule should be added. You should state that ONLY characters in your outline in your first post should be allowed to be voted for. Other votes should be seen as invalid. This will eliminate silly votes from people who are less experienced with P:M, or who are a bit younger, OR who simply aren't that great at character speculation lol.

Okay next, the Saki thing.. Couldn't a gun character be used as a base, and then add a sword bone to them? Or, couldn't a sword be added only to their texture, and then hit bubbles attached to where the sword is?

And Ray. I'm not sure what else to say about him. If you read the description and watch the video I posted, it's pretty self explanatory from that point.
Hes been in a couple of games, the franchise is a bit smaller, but he would be a great fit in smash bros. There are many interesting/weird characters who were added in Melee and Brawl who no one knew about/hadn't though about in AGES, so adding someone from a smaller franchise would be fantastic. And him and Saki WERE added as assist trophies, so I think Sakurai must have at least thought about putting more work into adding them as full characters at some point! Plus I think another tech based character would be great to add to the game, especially since Megaman is a no no.


I think this post in the other thread explains it well:

This is correct for the most part but to elaborate on the article requirement - a much bigger concern is the flexibility offered by these articles due to their special properties. DK for example actually has 3 available articles: Bongos (Final Smash), Sound Wave (Final Smash), and Barrel (Entry Animation) but the limited actions within the article instances themselves as well as the lack of notable floats (unique attributes for each special move) would make them poor choices compared to the articles that characters like Snake, Samus, or Mario possess It's definitely a "Quality over Quantity" kind of deal since we are still fairly limited in how we can edit these articles.

There is actually some considerable leeway when it comes to general actions but the more complex actions like command grabs (because of the complexity with catch collisions), tethers (they all involve specific articles), crawls and glides (these are directed primarily through floats IIRC) also weigh heavily in our selection of a clone candidate.


And unfortunately using any sort of projectile or move from an SSE character is also out of the question. Very sad face... some of those enemies had some great-looking moves!


So basically, if you clone a character, they kinda need to have the articles to manipulate. So if you take Marth, for example, he has no extra articles (as far as I know of) that can be projectiles. Link is the only sword character, but I think a bow operates quite differently than a gun. Not to mention it's a separate article, so it's not the same thing as his sword... and from what I understand, Saki's weapon is both a blade and a gun.

Regarding the thing about the original post and voting. Yeah that's possible, but I don't wanna force people into that. My list isn't perfect, so I don't want to pretend it is. I didn't have Bowser Jr. originally, for example.

Ray MkII. I think he's a great idea for SSB4 (and I think arguing over characters for SSB4 is stupid and pointless), but as for P:M... I dunno. He's all about shooting. So I could see him possibly as a Samus clone. Again I don't know much else about how he plays in his game other than that video you have, where's blasting stuff.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Ray MKII seems like a pretty fine choice. I'm a sucker for robot characters for some reason.
How would you handle his size (issue)? (I know nothing about the franhcise, what's the difference between MKI, MKII, and MKIII? Are they the same characters?)

I'd leave his size as his Assist Trophy version. Or at least upscale him to Olimar's size.
Haven't really played Custom Robo, but I've always been interested in it. And from his moves in Brawl I see he could at least have some pretty awesome directional laser fire and missiles.
They're not the same character, just a chassis onto which the guns, bombs, pods, legs, and various parts are attached. Rays I, II, and III aren't even characters, really, just the chassis that you start the majority of the games with, which can be switched at any time (provided you have other parts). It's the diver controlling them whom is the main character of the series (which varies game-to-game). Besides, robos are barely a foot in height for the models of average height. Just clearing it up out of a love for the series. The robos don't really fight outside of shooting, with three of the games having one melee weapon.
 

Hungry Headcrab

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
541
Location
Washington
For the most part I think people are not as outraged with the other clones.. If you've noticed, Ganondorf is the only one that keeps coming up.
Luigi makes sense as a clone, as does Lucas and Falco and Wolf. I think its stupid that Sakurai felt the need to add more friggin Landmasters in brawl, but whatever its fine. Falco and Wolf were different enough. The only other character I think could use decloning is actually toon link, but even he isn't that annoying to me. At least hes a link! GANONDORF ISN'T CAPTAIN FALCON JR. AND HE CERTAINLY IS NOT AN F-ZERO CHARACTER. WHY THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF IS HE A CLONE???????? He is from another franchise, and he has VERY specific iconic moves that should be represented. That is the main problem we all have. Its STUPID and Sakurai is a friggin moron for making him a clone in the first place. Anyone who disagrees on that specific point is delusional.
The other clones don't even really have moves to work with. Fox, Falco and Wolf have no moves in Starfox, they made their moves up. Luigi has been a clone of mario ever since Mario Bros. in 1985, Lucas is pretty decloned already, and like I said, Toon Link at least is LINK.

So in conclusion, I see the point you're trying to make, but it is invalid.
Captain Falcon is a race car driver! His moveset makes the least sense out of just about anybody in Smash. He punches a guy in one comic, and Nintendo extrapolated that into a flashy moveset in Smash 64 with a few normal attacks from Samus of all people. Ganondorf's moveset represents his abilities in game more so than Falcon's does.

Ganondorf only needs minor tweaks to fully embody his LoZ self, though I believe he already does a better job of that than many characters in Smash as is. I wouldn't suggest changing Lucas or Ness either, even though their movesets, from what I hear at least, make no sense. They're established in Smash at this point, and drastic changes will just anger players who use them.

Ganondorf deserves the same respect.
 

Emg3

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
60
Location
Massachusetts
Did the PM team say they would only add characters that were in Smash in some way? if they didnt id love to see the character Ristar (Sega Genesis) added into the roster. His play style would focus on his grab game, kinda like a lighter DK.
Ristar_final.PNG
 

Kally Wally

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
597
Location
Florida
Only characters that appear in Brawl, yeah. Trophies, stickers, it doesn't really matter, but they need to be represented in some way.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Captain Falcon is a race car driver! His moveset makes the least sense out of just about anybody in Smash. He punches a guy in one comic, and Nintendo extrapolated that into a flashy moveset in Smash 64 with a few normal attacks from Samus of all people. Ganondorf's moveset represents his abilities in game more so than Falcon's does.

Ganondorf only needs minor tweaks to fully embody his LoZ self, though I believe he already does a better job of that than many characters in Smash as is. I wouldn't suggest changing Lucas or Ness either, even though their movesets, from what I hear at least, make no sense. They're established in Smash at this point, and drastic changes will just anger players who use them.

Ganondorf deserves the same respect.
Agreed. Falcon and Ganondorf are fine as-is, as much as Falcon's moveset (outside of his Final Smash) makes little sense in terms of his actual character. Ganon's been established as the kind of character that he is since Melee, and mostly the same through Brawl, and at this point he's had enough work done to where he's his own character in a way.

Why is it that character speculation like Lyn and Andy make me upset? I mean, come on... Andy?
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
I think this post in the other thread explains it well:



So basically, if you clone a character, they kinda need to have the articles to manipulate. So if you take Marth, for example, he has no extra articles (as far as I know of) that can be projectiles. Link is the only sword character, but I think a bow operates quite differently than a gun. Not to mention it's a separate article, so it's not the same thing as his sword... and from what I understand, Saki's weapon is both a blade and a gun.

Regarding the thing about the original post and voting. Yeah that's possible, but I don't wanna force people into that. My list isn't perfect, so I don't want to pretend it is. I didn't have Bowser Jr. originally, for example.

Ray MkII. I think he's a great idea for SSB4 (and I think arguing over characters for SSB4 is stupid and pointless), but as for P:M... I dunno. He's all about shooting. So I could see him possibly as a Samus clone. Again I don't know much else about how he plays in his game other than that video you have, where's blasting stuff.

I understand the issue with articles... But I'm not sure if u missed something I said. I'm asking if they could use a character that uses a gun (like fox) as a base so they can manipulate his laser article, and then edit in a sword bone (not sure if that's possible) or just make a sword in his character model (as a part of his hand bone but without bones of its own) so it looks like hes holding a sword. And then they could add hit boxes to the sword afterward.

About the voting, you could make the rule I suggested, but tell people that they could bring up characters they'd like to see, and some discussion would be needed before those characters could become eligible to be added to the list of votable characters... make sense?

And Ray... lets talk move set:

Neutral B - hold B for a "machine gun" attack like in the video

Side B - if you notice at the end of the video he kind of dashes forward before blasting the robot in the face. This is actually a move he has in custom robo

Up B - flips upside down and shoots missiles out of his back which fire directly down while boosting him upward at the same time

Down B - Chargeable projectile like samus Neutral B, but he can move around like when charging Dedede's hammer. This projectile could kind of spray out like a shotgun (kind of like the one move one of the other robots use in the CR video) OR it could just shoot straight out like samus'.

BOOM!
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
Captain Falcon is a race car driver! His moveset makes the least sense out of just about anybody in Smash. He punches a guy in one comic, and Nintendo extrapolated that into a flashy moveset in Smash 64 with a few normal attacks from Samus of all people. Ganondorf's moveset represents his abilities in game more so than Falcon's does.

Ganondorf only needs minor tweaks to fully embody his LoZ self, though I believe he already does a better job of that than many characters in Smash as is. I wouldn't suggest changing Lucas or Ness either, even though their movesets, from what I hear at least, make no sense. They're established in Smash at this point, and drastic changes will just anger players who use them.

Ganondorf deserves the same respect.

I can't possibly agree with this lol. How can you say Ganondorf represents himself at all? When the hell does Ganondorf use punches and kicks ever in LoZ?? (Besides the sparta kick in TP and the punch they lamely added to justify his warlock punch in smash bros). Hes always used magic and weapons.. ALWAYS!!! This argument is insane! lol

But.. I never said Lucas or Ness should be changed.. I'm not sure where that came from lol.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
I can't possibly agree with this lol. How can you say Ganondorf represents himself at all? When the hell does Ganondorf use punches and kicks ever in LoZ?? (Besides the sparta kick in TP and the punch they lamely added to justify his warlock punch in smash bros). Hes always used magic and weapons.. ALWAYS!!! This argument is insane! lol

But.. I never said Lucas or Ness should be changed.. I'm not sure where that came from lol.
He uses physical force all of the time in official artwork of the series. The argument isn't that far-fetched. I mean, if you've played Ocarina, you might recall the moments in which Ganondorf destroys the platforms in his boss chamber. He's using the power of the Triforce of Power to enhance the magical and physical abilities he already had. The whole "Ganondorf using fists" argument is not valid in my opinion, in part because Ganondorf is never portrayed as the mysterious, robed wizard that Anghiham is. The dude is beefy. Always. Besides, don't you think that, coming from the desert, that Ganondorf (the man) had to pick up a few tricks?
 

MLGF

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,922
Some small part in my head likes to imagine a world where there were only 2 extra slots for Brawl.
The world would be a better place. Famine would end, Global Warming would stop, crooked politicians would be taken out of office.

And people wouldn't request Toad.

Now, in total hypocrisy, I think the only character I'd love to see would be Isaac and, to a lesser extent, Ridley.
But that's just Golden Sun nostalgia completely consuming all rationality in my thought process and I think Ridley would be very unique.

So I'll give a vote to those two and down vote everyone else mentioned in this topic.

Because I'm a tool.
 

Hungry Headcrab

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
541
Location
Washington
I can't possibly agree with this lol. How can you say Ganondorf represents himself at all? When the hell does Ganondorf use punches and kicks ever in LoZ?? (Besides the sparta kick in TP and the punch they lamely added to justify his warlock punch in smash bros). Hes always used magic and weapons.. ALWAYS!!! This argument is insane! lol

But.. I never said Lucas or Ness should be changed.. I'm not sure where that came from lol.

Did you even read my initial post? I was as thorough as possible, and even cited several examples of in-game moments where Ganon uses punches and kicks.

1. Ganondorf punches the ground real hard at the beginning of the battle with a magically infused fist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrENG9qjhA
2. Ganondorf backhands Link and lifts Terra up by the skull: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjFRr6e1QsM
3. Ganondorf unleashes a flurry of fists in one of the scariest moments of Wind Waker (he also backhands Zelda in the middle of the fight): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXTSRQW6n4A
4. Ganondorf punches the Water Sage in the face and murders him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_voBgF4DOU
5. Ganondorf throws a few punches and kicks during this fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXLV1JXikTA

Ganondorf uses magic in combat for OoT, but he almost never uses magic in the same way again. The swords only truly appear for boss battles, whereas all cutscenes in those games generally Ganon only use his fists (aside from menacingly pointing a blade at Link once).

Edit: Also, the Lucas/Ness thing was just an example. I don't think anyone has suggested it, sorry if I was unclear.
 

trojanpooh

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,183
I can't possibly agree with this lol. How can you say Ganondorf represents himself at all? When the hell does Ganondorf use punches and kicks ever in LoZ?? (Besides the sparta kick in TP and the punch they lamely added to justify his warlock punch in smash bros). Hes always used magic and weapons.. ALWAYS!!! This argument is insane! lol

All 3 times he's ever shown up. Oh, except when he punches away the floor in OoT, punches Link in WW, and the instances you've already mentioned. Honestly Ganondorf doesn't have a consistent fighting style in the Zelda series. If anything his current moveset makes the most sense. Any alternative would be based on a single game or take random bits from 3 different fighting styles. The way he is now he is the embodiment of power and brutality, it fits him in an abstract way.
 

shinhed-echi

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,636
Location
Ecuador - South America
NNID
punchtropics
3DS FC
5301-0890-0238
Did the PM team say they would only add characters that were in Smash in some way? if they didnt id love to see the character Ristar (Sega Genesis) added into the roster. His play style would focus on his grab game, kinda like a lighter DK.View attachment 3474
Wait... there's a sticker of Ristar? Seriously!? O_O How could I miss that?

I don't think anybody will agree with giving Ristar a chance... but I'd find him really really cool. Especially if he were to go against Kirby or Starfy. A small grappler like him would be freaking awesome.
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
Did you even read my initial post? I cited several examples of in-game moments where Ganon uses punches and kicks.

1. Ganondorf punches the ground real hard at the beginning of the battle with a magically infused fist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrENG9qjhA
2. Ganondorf backhands Link and lifts Terra up by the skull: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjFRr6e1QsM
3. Ganondorf unleashes a flurry of fists in one of the scariest moments of Wind Waker (he also backhands Zelda in the middle of the fight): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXTSRQW6n4A
4. Ganondorf punches the Water Sage in the face and murders him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_voBgF4DOU
5. Ganondorf throws a few punches and kicks during this fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXLV1JXikTA

Ganondorf uses magic in combat for OoT, but he almost never uses magic in the same way again. The swords only truly appear for boss battles, whereas all cutscenes generally have Ganon only use his fists.

Edit: Also, the Lucas/Ness thing was just an example. I don't think anyone has suggested it, sorry if I was unclear.

Really? We're gona pick out cut scene attacks? Not to mention ones that came after Melee and Ganondorfs debut as a clone?
Ganondorf should have the ground striking move from OOT as an attack, not the warlock punch.
And his cut scene moves are certainly not iconic moves. His iconic moves are his magic attacks (specifically his reflectable orb or whatever you wana call it)

Anyway we should stop arguing about this lol
 

Hungry Headcrab

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
541
Location
Washington
Really? We're gona pick out cut scene attacks? Not to mention ones that came after Melee and Ganondorfs debut as a clone?
Ganondorf should have the ground striking move from OOT as an attack, not the warlock punch.
And his cut scene moves are certainly not iconic moves. His iconic moves are his magic attacks (specifically his reflectable orb or whatever you wana call it)

Anyway we should stop arguing about this lol

We should, yet I can't stop.

Suggesting he get a sword is entirely based on games after Melee (unless you count the victory taunt in Melee). Either way, it's not a valid argument against my point.

Ganondorf doesn't get a lot of screen time in the Zelda games, so of course we're going to pick out cutscene attacks. If anything, they are the best display of his character, given that it can't be bogged down by AI or trying to make an in-game boss battle, where the developers are more limited in their approach. Cutscenes display pure, unbridled examples of Ganondorf's power.

I agree that Ganon's iconic moves (especially in OoT) are magic, but he doesn't have enough to work off of to suggest changing his entire character. He already uses magic in almost all of his physical attacks in P:M and in a similar manner as his ground pound in OoT (he's shoving magic into a physical attack), and adding an effect or changing an animation or two would make Ganondorf perfect. He doesn't need an overhaul, he needs minor tweaks at best, and a projectile, but that has its own problems with articles and such.
 

Solbliminal

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
2,275
NNID
Solbliminal
Wait... there's a sticker of Ristar? Seriously!? O_O How could I miss that?

I don't think anybody will agree with giving Ristar a chance... but I'd find him really really cool. Especially if he were to go against Kirby or Starfy. A small grappler like him would be freaking awesome.
He isn't a sticker to my knowledge. I just double checked the complete sticker list to make sure.
 

trojanpooh

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,183
We should, yet I can't stop.

Suggesting he get a sword is entirely based on games after Melee (unless you count the victory taunt in Melee). Either way, it's not a valid argument against my point.

Ganondorf doesn't get a lot of screen time in the Zelda games, so of course we're going to pick out cutscene attacks. If anything, they are the best display of his character, given that it can't be bogged down by AI or trying to make a boss battle. Just pure, unbridled examples of Ganondorf's power.

I agree that Ganon's iconic moves (especially in OoT) are magic, but he doesn't have enough to work off of to suggest changing his entire character. He already uses magic in almost all of his physical attacks in P:M and in a similar manner as his ground pound in OoT (he's shoving magic into a physical attack), and adding an effect or changing an animation or two would make Ganondorf perfect. He doesn't need an overhaul, he needs minor tweaks at best, and a projectile, but that has its own problems.

To go off that Ganondorf had one appearance pre clone status and what did he do? Shoot projectiles and punch the ground. No sword play at all. Next up the Wind Waker came around and two of his most notable scenes featured punches of sorts. Twilight Princess his most iconic scene was probably killing the sage which again, is with fists. I don't know where people get the idea that Ganondorf has some sort of fighting style that he sticks to and is iconic or something. Frankly, Ganondorf was really lucky to even be in Melee and there really isn't a moveset out there that would properly depict him as a whole character without showing bias towards one iteration over the other 2. Again, 3 appearances. Same number as Vaati.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
I'd 100% resize him. Id make him bigger than Olimar tho. Olimars actual size is way smaller than Ray is as an assist trophy.

If you look above, i made a post with more info and videos about Ray. Check it out if u want
Don't need to. I've played through the Custom Robo series enough. Ray, or any custom robo for that matter, would just be poor character choices. No character in the game, not even Samus or Link, have enough articles available with which to clone from. Seeing as Robo's have at least three types of projectiles on any given build, it's just not viable. The behaviors of those weapons just aren't close to what any of the cast use in their own weaponry. Articles, from what I understand, are a pain to mess around with, and projectile-heavy characters, I would also understand, aren't first picks for choices to use, just because of how difficult it would be to find a character to clone them from with the right amount of projectile weaponry.
 

Anti Guy

Couch Tomato
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 27, 2001
Messages
2,072
Location
Wisconsin
NNID
CouchTomato87
Displays of Ganondorf's character? Metal as ****. Link just doesn't understand the poet within Ganon.


Link's face: "Holy ****. That's deep."

Anyways yeah. Everything on Ganondorf that's needed to be said has been said.
 

Emg3

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
60
Location
Massachusetts
Wait... there's a sticker of Ristar? Seriously!? O_O How could I miss that?

I don't think anybody will agree with giving Ristar a chance... but I'd find him really really cool. Especially if he were to go against Kirby or Starfy. A small grappler like him would be freaking awesome.

No there is no sticker for ristar. Sorry to get your hopes up
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
We should, yet I can't stop.

Suggesting he get a sword is entirely based on games after Melee (unless you count the victory taunt in Melee). Either way, it's not a valid argument against my point.

Ganondorf doesn't get a lot of screen time in the Zelda games, so of course we're going to pick out cutscene attacks. If anything, they are the best display of his character, given that it can't be bogged down by AI or trying to make a boss battle. Just pure, unbridled examples of Ganondorf's power.

I agree that Ganon's iconic moves (especially in OoT) are magic, but he doesn't have enough to work off of to suggest changing his entire character. He already uses magic in almost all of his physical attacks in P:M and in a similar manner as his ground pound in OoT (he's shoving magic into a physical attack), and adding an effect or changing an animation or two would make Ganondorf perfect. He doesn't need an overhaul, he needs minor tweaks at best, and a projectile, but that has its own problems.

I know its so hard not to argue about this lol.

But actually the sword originally came from the GC Zelda reveal at Spaceworld 2000.


They gave him that sword in his Melee victory pose. So I really don't think Ganondorf using a sword in TP or WW has anything to do with Melee. They were planning on it from before.
People wanted him to have a sword (specifically the one from Spaceworld) ever since they saw it. THAT is the reason people want a sword in smash. I think everyone will agree with me on that. Also a sword is more current and new than him using a trident. BUT, I will say I don't think the sword is the most important part of his move set. I think it would be nice and would work well. But I can live without it, and I'm sure many others can too. I would be happy with a trident or no weapon at all if his magic attacks were incorporated.

As for the "a few tweaks" I'd even be slightly happier with that (give him the ground pound, a flying animation for his run etc), but I think those minor tweaks are even less likely. They've put a lot of work into his current move set, so I think its something they're very happy with, and want to be in the game. So that's why I really am suggesting moving it to another character. Plus, theres no chance they could add a good projectile attack to his current move set without changing it significantly.
Although another thought I had (something similar was mentioned before).. rather than moving his move set, keep it with TP ganon... and then add OOT ganon (melee's model) and give HIM a new move set. I'd be ecstatic with that too... but I'm not sure if thats gona be something they'd consider doing.


I just wanted to mention this too.. I'll add it to my ganondorf description later as well. But I think Ganondorf should feel overall more like Mewtwo than how he feels now (his movements, jumps, floating ability etc).. HELL! If he was a clone of Mewtwo I'd be more accepting than him being a clone of C. Falcon!! Mewtows moves could even work well with Ganondorf (with some tweaking and of course with some serious animation changes and removing the use of a tail). :p
 

shinhed-echi

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,636
Location
Ecuador - South America
NNID
punchtropics
3DS FC
5301-0890-0238
No there is no sticker for ristar. Sorry to get your hopes up
Deep down I knew it couldn't be real. But yeah, no prob. :)


Glad to see a bit more Sukapon love. He may not be among my favorite Nintendo characters, but I admit I had fun with his game. Certainly a bit ahead of its time in terms of being a fighting game that told a story.

I don't recall what his special moves are, but I think I have muscle memory of performing a horizontal rolling attack. A diagonal rolling attack (or more like, the same horizontal attack which you could angle midway through). Throwing his head, and something else I don't remember... But still, the guy's got potential.


I'd love to have him playable, I'd main him in Green so he'd remind me of my favorite SEGA hero. :D
 

AnOkayDM

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
2,235
Location
Shoreline, WA
NNID
EvanescentHero
The only reason Ganon got Falcon's moveset in the first place is because they had vaguely the same body type. That's it. I guarantee you that if he'd been planned from the beginning he would have had a different moveset, one that involved more magic or perhaps a sword or trident to represent both himself as a human (Ganondorf) and the beast from the early games (Ganon). I know they're not the same character, but no one can deny they're connected (and actually, with the reveal of the third branch of the Zelda timeline, it's entirely possible (and likely) that Ganon from ALttP, LoZ, Zelda II, and the Oracle games is Ganondorf from OoT, thus making all of his moves from the top-down games entirely canon as well).

Literally the only reason anybody defends this moveset as "how Ganon fights" is because of this game. Before Melee, if you'd suggested to any Zelda fan that Ganon play as a fist fighter, they would have laughed in your face. And his moveset didn't change from Melee to Brawl because Sakurai didn't want to upset Ganon players.

If we have the chance to keep this moveset by giving it to someone else and make Ganon stop being the world's most nonsensical clone, I see no reason we shouldn't.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT

Ganondorf is extremely powerful in every way, shape in form, in any incarnation he's appeared as (except for the one where he's a pile of ashes in Zelda II; he was only slightly less powerful in that one, and a little more dead). End of story. Punching, magic, Latin, and strength; it's all heavily implied by his own universe that it's an inherent part of his character. Plenty of characters break the own 'rules' of their respective universes within their games, and Ganondorf is no exception.

Bottom line: he is who he is, he doesn't need changing, his Super Smash Bros. incarnation has been well-established and does not need to be changed. For anybody saying he "just doesn't make sense", please consider Fox before his Gamecube titles. Consider Captain Falcon in relation to anything he's been in. Consider Peach. Ganondorf needs no changing. The dude is generalized as just being stupid powerful in any of the games he's starred in, and I think that Melee, Brawl, and Project M have done him justice in his moveset. His character has been established, and it would be a plain disrespect to just off the Ganondorf we know. Just because he has x attack in y game does not mean he has to be a mirror image of his in-universe self. Him being as powerful as he is in the Smash Universe is a good representation of the man.
 

l3thargy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
234
Location
New Glasgow N.S.
We should, yet I can't stop.

Suggesting he get a sword is entirely based on games after Melee (unless you count the victory taunt in Melee). Either way, it's not a valid argument against my point.

Ganondorf doesn't get a lot of screen time in the Zelda games, so of course we're going to pick out cutscene attacks. If anything, they are the best display of his character, given that it can't be bogged down by AI or trying to make an in-game boss battle, where the developers are more limited in their approach. Cutscenes display pure, unbridled examples of Ganondorf's power.

I agree that Ganon's iconic moves (especially in OoT) are magic, but he doesn't have enough to work off of to suggest changing his entire character. He already uses magic in almost all of his physical attacks in P:M and in a similar manner as his ground pound in OoT (he's shoving magic into a physical attack), and adding an effect or changing an animation or two would make Ganondorf perfect. He doesn't need an overhaul, he needs minor tweaks at best, and a projectile, but that has its own problems with articles and such.
here's something pre melee for yeah that would help support him with the sword
Edit: I just saw the post made by someone else that already has this video so nvm this post
 

Hungry Headcrab

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
541
Location
Washington
I know its so hard not to argue about this lol.

But actually the sword originally came from the GC Zelda reveal at Spaceworld 2000.


They gave him that sword in his Melee victory pose. So I really don't think Ganondorf using a sword in TP or WW has anything to do with Melee. They were planning on it from before.
People wanted him to have a sword (specifically the one from Spaceworld) ever since they saw it. THAT is the reason people want a sword in smash. I think everyone will agree with me on that. Also a sword is more current and new than him using a trident. BUT, I will say I don't think the sword is the most important part of his move set. I think it would be nice and would work well. But I can live without it, and I'm sure many others can too. I would be happy with a trident or no weapon at all if his magic attacks were incorporated...
here's something pre melee for yeah that would help support him with the sword
Edit: I just saw the post made by someone else that already has this video so nvm this post

Pre-Melee is a stupid argument, but anyway, why are cutscenes off limits for justifying his character, yet a silly non-canon technical demo justifies fundamentally changing a character in their entirety?

I've said everything I can say, so this is just repeating myself at this point. Ganondorf ONLY needs minor tweaks to fully embody his LoZ character. A full overhaul is, frankly, a waste of time and a betrayal to all of his current fans just to shoehorn a terrible character like Black Shadow onto the roster.
 

BronzeGreekGod

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
1,638
To go off that Ganondorf had one appearance pre clone status and what did he do? Shoot projectiles and punch the ground. No sword play at all. Next up the Wind Waker came around and two of his most notable scenes featured punches of sorts. Twilight Princess his most iconic scene was probably killing the sage which again, is with fists. I don't know where people get the idea that Ganondorf has some sort of fighting style that he sticks to and is iconic or something. Frankly, Ganondorf was really lucky to even be in Melee and there really isn't a moveset out there that would properly depict him as a whole character without showing bias towards one iteration over the other 2. Again, 3 appearances. Same number as Vaati.

All the games where Ganondorf uses his fists came after melee.. so THAT is my problem. Before that it was ALL about magic, his trident and teleporting. I made this argument already, when he punches the sage in TP, that was the warlock punch, which was a LAMEEEE attempt to justify his warlock punch in Melee. But I guess it worked for people such as yourself.
Also like I mentioned, his sword isn't the most important thing, it's the use of his orb projectile and other moves that he's been seen using in the past (flying, teleporting, dark magic force, shooting electricit and even the use of a trident). The sword everyone keeps talking about is just a modernized weapon instead of the trident.

Now....Ganondorf is Ganon in human form, so I don't know where you get off saying hes shown up in only 3 games. He's in LOZ, LOZ2 (kind of), LA (kind of) LTTP, OOT, WW, TP, and in SS it is implied that Demise is Ganons first incarnation.

Dafuq
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
yet a silly non-canon technical demo justifies fundamentally changing a character in their entirety?
This hits the nail on the head. Ganondorf had something in a demonstration of an incomplete game, and that's not justification for why it's not present in the smash bros. universe. If anything, through all of my time playing the LoZ franchise, everytime I've seen Ganondorf, he's been defined as a big, scary dude who could trample an elephant. The dude's huge. There's just not enough justification for the PM:BR to turn around, change Ganondorf into a totally different character, and work out an entire new moveset for a vocal minority of those who are against his current iteration, just to replace him with a character who has even less visual representation of his would-be moveset (I'm looking at you, Black Shadow).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom