New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Shin F.]

I'm not saying that they're the literally exactly the same - I'm saying that the distinction between the moves that are similar aren't visually meaningful enough to support the idea that it's worth including another character who would likely function along the same paradigms.

If you can't see the difference, you're blind or need better glasses.

 

[Bleck]

If you can't see the difference, you're blind or need better glasses.

Again, I'm not saying that there's no discernible differences. I'm saying that what those differences are aren't meaningful enough to justify a character who would likely be more of the same.

 

[ThreeSided]

Why not an axe? Or a dagger? What about knives, a staff, poleaxe... Even a lot of these would be similar to a sword in appearance with swinging and all, but they'd be different and I'd be more interested in seeing those than another sword.

It appears to me that it's just coming down to personal preference. Some people like swords. Others are sick of swords. The difference is that there seems to be quite a large trend of people saying that smash doesn't need more swords.

Then again, there's also the functional argument. Many who are anti-sword wouldn't like a poleaxe or staff, because to them, it's just another sword. To these people, it's the play style they're getting tired of seeing: I have more range than you physically. I'm going to horizontally zone you, and that's most of my strategy. I'm not in this park, but it's a common complaint. And really, both are valid.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I guess that's more vertical than I was picturing in my head, but it doesn't really matter.

no that's not fair, you're not allowed to do that *folds arms*

 

[Saito]

I'm not saying that they're the literally exactly the same - I'm saying that the distinction between the moves that are similar aren't visually meaningful enough to support the idea that it's worth including another character who would likely function along the same paradigms.

I think that's a matter of opinion.

I don't know about you, well I do actually. But I wouldn't mind another sword character. Especially considering the fact that he wouldn't have the same moves as marth/roy/ike but only be fundamentally similar in the essence that they all have swords.

 

[ThreeSided]

Why not an axe? Or a dagger? What about knives, a staff, poleaxe... Even a lot of these would be similar to a sword in appearance with swinging and all, but they'd be different and I'd be more interested in seeing those than another sword.

It appears to me that it's just coming down to personal preference. Some people like swords. Others are sick of swords. The difference is that there seems to be quite a large trend of people saying that smash doesn't need more swords.

Then again, there's also the functional argument. Many who are anti-sword wouldn't like a poleaxe or staff, because to them, it's just another sword. To these people, it's the play style they're getting tired of seeing: I have more range than you physically. I'm going to horizontally zone you, and that's most of my strategy. I'm not in this park, but it's a common complaint. And really, both are valid.

EDIT: Accidental double post, sorry. Internet connection + refresh issues.

 

[Bleck]

no that's not fair, you're not allowed to do that *folds arms*

Okay, that was admittedly a hand wave. I stand by the idea that it doesn't matter - so Ike has a forward tilt that's, specifically, a horizontal swing from right to left, holding the sword in his right(?) hand. Marth's forward tilt is vertical swing, down to up, holding the sword in his right hand.

There are a bunch of different permutations here, conceptually - both moves could have directions reversed. Hands reversed. Now imagine that Smash 4 has Shulk in it, and his forward tilt is a horizontal swing from the left to right, in his right hand. Or, wait, no, a vertical swing from up to down in his left hand. Or wait, I know, a diagonal swing with both hands.

If you assume that every permutation of direction and hands and speed and strength are meaningfully different, a whole roster of characters could be made just out of peeps with swords. My argument, here, is that this would make for a game that was boring looking and, arguably, boring to play.

I think that's a matter of opinion.

Not really - a video game is the sum of its parts. If a video game's quality could be determined entirely from the gameplay, then why is the large majority of a game's developmental costs and efforts put towards visuals and audio?

It could be assume from the attitudes of several posters in this discussion that any Smash Bros. game would still be good if you replaced all the characters with colored squares that projected various shapes for all of their attacks, had the only playable stage Final Destination (except without the pretty flying space background and basically just a floating gray rectangle in an endless white void) and replaced all of the music and sound effects with a resounding silence. Yeah, you could still pull off some fancy combos or whatever, but people would probably be way less interested in playing it.

Why not an axe? Or a dagger? What about knives, a staff, poleaxe... Even a lot of these would be similar to a sword in appearance with swinging and all, but they'd be different and I'd be more interested in seeing those than another sword.

Yeah, see, that's the thing - I posit that if you gave Ike's moveset and copypasted it onto, say, Hector, then just the visual change alone, even if it was functionally exactly the same, would make Hector a more significantly different character than Marth than Ike currently is.

 

[Solbliminal]

Wow, Meta Knight is the best Marth clone ever that I never knew about.

Brb, gonna go play Soul Calibur. I heard the majority of the roster is clones of Siegfried.

 

[arcticfox8]

***** please

 

[Bleck]

Wow, Meta Knight is the best Marth clone ever that I never knew about.

Ignoring what the discussion is actually about so that you can get in some half-formed sardonic remark makes you look kind of dumb.

 

[Zzuxon]

....
..........


That is the most outright stupid comparison between Smash characters I have ever seen, bar none.

Marth and Ike? The same? Far from it! At least if you'd said Marth and Roy, I could see how you could come to the conclusion, but Marth and Ike?

Oh, my. This argument isn't even worth it with you.

Stupider than claiming Jiggs is a clone of Kirby?

 

[Solbliminal]

Ignoring what the discussion is actually about so that you can get in some half-formed sardonic remark makes you look kind of dumb.

Look dumb to who? You? I can live with that.

 

[ThreeSided]

Wow, Meta Knight is the best Marth clone ever that I never knew about.

Brb, gonna go play Soul Calibur. I heard the majority of the roster is clones of Siegfried.

If you read back on the character carefully, you'll see that we are specifically talking about relatively realistic style sword fighters. I already gave the Links a pass for their largely projectile game and Meta Knight a pass a while ago due to the uniqueness allowed by his cartooniness. The issue comes from sword-based, realistic playstyles, which are much harder to make original and interesting to people who don't have a particular fondness for swords as many do these days.

 

[Shin F.]

If you read back on the character carefully, you'll see that we are specifically talking about relatively realistic style sword fighters. I already gave the Links a pass for their largely projectile game and Meta Knight a pass a while ago due to the uniqueness allowed by his cartooniness. The issue comes from sword-based, realistic playstyles, which are much harder to make original and interesting to people who don't have a particular fondness for swords as many do these days.

Yes, because someone who can cause earthquakes and manipulate plants and someone with what amounts to a energy saber that can extend and retract are pretty normal. Shoot, I saw ten of them walking down the street just in the last hour.

But nah. Let's add someone like Hector instead. He would function 100% like Ike, but he has an axe so he would be totally different!

 

[Solbliminal]

If you read back on the character carefully, you'll see that we are specifically talking about relatively realistic style sword fighters. I already gave the Links a pass for their largely projectile game and Meta Knight a pass a while ago due to the uniqueness allowed by his cartooniness. The issue comes from sword-based, realistic playstyles, which are much harder to make original and interesting to people who don't have a particular fondness for swords as many do these days.

Don't assume I didn't read the conversation. I'm well aware of what took place here. But to form a mind against a character because of a particular weapon they wield is about the most close minded thing you can even consider. I mean having a sword sure didn't stop Isaac or Lyn from being voted on, and certainly didn't stop Soul Calibur from being a game. If a character is highly liked and has a unique potential, having a sword isn't going to change that.

Hell, if you want to argue Ike is not any different than Marth, than look at Lucario to Mewtwo and tell me they are different.

-Jab with Aura
-Up Smash with Aura
-Down Smash with Aura
-Forward Smash with Aura and two palms
-Throw an Energy Ball
-Command Grab on Side-B

Now look at characters like Mario and Luigi, Ness and Lucas, Fox and Wolf, Bowser and Charizard, & Captain Falcon and Ganondorf then tell me they are different cases.

 

[Darkmask]

I decided that instead of just listing individual ideas for Isaac, I would just post an entire moveset for him, and see what people think of my concept of a three-tiered charge character:

Isaac from Golden Sun

From Assist Trophy to Playable Character, Isaac's playstyle utilizes his swordsmanship as well as his Mastery over Earth and Plantlife. Most of his special attack deal with summoning the earthly elements, from earthquakes and boulders, to vines and thorns. Most of Isaac's moves at base are quick launching with a small radius and light damage, however all of his specials can be charged for greater damage, speed, and effect. This gives Isaac the chance to be suddenly switch fighting styles on a dime, from a low-damaging quickster to a slower powerhouse (at least in theory)

Melee:

Jab: AA: Sword slashes, two generic slashes followed by a third overhead slash, similar to Helm Splitter
FTilt: Glowing sword forward stab, based on Odyssey
UTilt: A full overhead slash, hitting most of what is in front of Isaac from overhead to floor, based on Helm Splitter
DTilt: Glowing sword stab aimed forward angeled toward floor, based on Ragnarok
FSmash: Isaac lunges forward with a sky to floor slash that created a short-travelling sword beam, based on Cutting Edge.
USmash: Punji, Isaac summons sharp-pointed bamboo from the ground and stabs upwards, they retract soon afterwards.
DSmash: Isaac summons several blades around his feet that stab upwards around his body, based on Sabre Dance.
NAir: Isaac balls his fist as purple energy glows and envelops him in a purple haze, damaged on contact, doesn't last long but lingers on any foe affected for a few second thereafter, based on Demon Night
FAir: Overhead slash from head to foot, based on aerial version of Helm Splitter
UAir: Spire, launches hand upwards conjuring a small spire of stone.
BAir: Lashes back with an energy whip, based on Whiplash
DAir: Sweeping plunge downwards, based on Death Plunge


Specials:

Special: Gaia->Mother Gaia->Grand Gaia: Chargable earth-based burst attack centered on self
USpecial: Rockfall->Rockslide->Avalanche: Chargable boulder that lifts Isaac into the air like a platform, charging creates a bigger and faster platform
SSpecial: Thorn->Briar->Nettle: Chargable vine grab, pulls self towards captures target into an explosion of thorny vines. Charging increases vine length (base vine doesn't have that more reach than a normal grab, whereas Nettle can grab from farther away). Can be used as recovery tether.
DSpecial: Quake->Earthquake->Quake Sphere: Chargable shockwave, damages and launches opponents up. Charge increases shockwave size, damage, and launch, fully charged includes a second, smaller shockwave. Ground version has a short animation, aerial version launches Isaac to the floor quickly and it enacts on contact. Aerial version can be cancelled before ground contact is made.

Grabs:

FGrab: Slashes forward to break hold then launches outward with his palm, sending a palm of white energy to knock opponent back, based on Move, but hand is smaller than current Brawl model.
DGrab: Isaac slams opponent to ground and then launches three quick but very small localized quakes, that launch opponent into the air at the end, based on Tremor
UGrab: Launches opponent into the air with barrage of whipping vines from ground, up-launch, based on Growth.
BGrab: Slashes back to break hold before Isaac punches forward, sending a balled fist of white energy to knock opponent back, based on Force

Dodge: Despite the fact it is a Psyenergy usually only used by Felix, was thinking of allowing Isaac to dodge by turning himself into a small sandstorm, using Sand, sort of like a short-range teleport and yet another nod to his earthy abilities.

Final Smash:

Planetary: Summoning the power of Gaia, Isaac causes any foe in front of him to be swallowed by the Earth and held as he summons a dragon of heavenly flame that quickly launches from the sky, hitting foes. (acts very similar to Ganondorf's Final Smash, with attacking point moving diagnoally instead of horizontally)

 

[heroscott]

Why are we talking about Shadow? He literally got the bottom spot in the vote. <.<

Shouldn't we be discussing move sets for characters toward the top?

Where are the actual results of the "spots"?

 

[Solbliminal]

Where are the actual results of the "spots"?

Here are the final results. I won't be tallying anymore votes after this point.

There were 249 unique people voting.

As usual, it'll be this format, and I've only included characters with at least 10 votes:

Name: Score (+1s, +1/2s, -1s, %)

Individual Tiers
Isaac: 132.5 (131, 23, 10, 93.90%)

Ridley: 100.5 (108, 33, 24, 85.45%)

Lyn: 74 (83, 26, 22, 83.21%)

Ganondorf + Black Shadow: 68 (91, 23, 35, 76.67%)

Dark Samus: 53 (54, 40, 21, 81.74%)

King K Rool: 46 (43, 32, 13, 85.23%)

A Tier
Skapon: 39.5 (44, 31, 20, 78.95%)
Bowser Jr.: 37 (39, 32, 18, 79.78%)
Saki: 37 (33, 26, 9, 86.76%)
Skull Kid: 32 (27, 18, 4, 91.84%)
Masked Man/Claus: 30.5 (27, 15, 4, 91.30%)

B Tier
Sami: 23.5 (34, 13, 17, 73.44%)
Dixie Kong: 23 (35, 38, 31, 70.19%)
Paper Mario: 20 (25, 34, 22, 72.84%)
Tom Nook: 20 (18, 20, 8, 82.61%)
Ray: 18.5 (11, 15, 0, 100.00%)
Andy: 15.5 (14, 19, 8, 80.49%)
Samurai Goroh: 15 (13, 26, 11, 78.00%)

C Tier
Toad: 7.5 (21, 19, 23, 63.49%)
Waluigi: 6 (31, 26, 38, 60.00%)
Lip: 5.5 (1, 9, 0, 100.00%)
Hector: 3.5 (11, 19, 17, 63.83%)
Tetra: 3 (9, 14, 13, 64.89%)
Red/Pokemon Trainer: 1 (5, 4, 6, 60.00%)
Plusle & Minun: -3 (6, 9, 13, 51.85%)

D Tier
Toon Zelda: -9.5 (6, 7, 19, 40.63%)
Krystal: -10.5 (11, 25, 34, 51.43%)
Pichu: -12.5 (36, 25, 61, 50.00%)

F (Sonic) Tier
Tails: -25.5 (16, 19, 51, 40.70%)
Knuckles: -28.5 (15, 11, 49, 34.67%)
Shadow: -53.5 (12, 7, 69, 21.59%)

 

[Shin F.]

They're also in the OP now.

 

[Darkmask]

The only part of Isaac I don't really know is what his Taunts would be, truth be told.

 

[Cool Blue]

I'm thinking of making a Dark Samus moveset and I want to ask the thread a couple of questions (that don't really have anything to do with Dark Samus's moveset)

1. Would you rather see her/him/it (from now on I'll just refer to Dark Samus as "her") as she appears in Prime 2 or Prime 3?

2. Would you rather see her with her maniacal personality from Prime 2 or her cunning personality from Prime 3?

 

[Shin F.]

I'm thinking of making a Dark Samus moveset and I want to ask the thread a couple of questions (that don't really have anything to do with Dark Samus's moveset)

1. Would you rather see her/him/it (from now on I'll just refer to Dark Samus as "her") as she appears in Prime 2 or Prime 3?

2. Would you rather see her with her maniacal personality from Prime 2 or her cunning personality from Prime 3?

Doesn't really matter either way to me.

 

[Saito]

Not really - a video game is the sum of its parts. If a video game's quality could be determined entirely from the gameplay, then why is the large majority of a game's developmental costs and efforts put towards visuals and audio?

I mean for this specific case.

The matter of opinion in regards to this statement

I'm saying that the distinction between the moves that are similar aren't visually meaningful enough to support the idea that it's worth including another character who would likely function along the same paradigms.

-------------------------------------------------
I can agree that Roy and Marth are very similar, but when it comes down to ike, sure you can oversimplify it to sound the same but just playing as them looks and feels different.

If I was to look at every character with that same simplistic view of how they fight then many of the characters would be far too similar to include other characters who use the same weaponry, whether it be fists, swords, or whatever. The only characters that really don't feel significantly different visually to me is Fox/Falco and Roy/Marth.

My argument, here, is that this would make for a game that was boring looking and, arguably, boring to play.

Gonna have to disagree with that.

 

[TRJV]

Yeah, see, that's the thing - I posit that if you gave Ike's moveset and copypasted it onto, say, Hector, then just the visual change alone, even if it was functionally exactly the same, would make Hector a more significantly different character than Marth than Ike currently is.

That statement makes me feel like jumping off a bridge.

 

[CardiganBoy]

So i think it would be good to share some ideas about Dark Samus.

Just like Mewtwo, Dark Samus walk and running cycles would be floating, i also imagine DS to fall faster tan Samus, akin to her more agressive nature.
DS moveset would be a combination of brutal and acrobatic and even some stylish moves.

Moveset:

• Jab: Maybe something inspired by Metwo’s jab, or just borrow it from Samus.
• Ftilt: Extends her arm and shots phazon from the palm of her hand.
  
• Utilt: Snake’s Brawl utilt, why? Because it looks badass and fits DS imo.
• Dtilt: Something like this.
• Fsmash: Uses the old Samus’ fsmash animation, but instead of just punching with the cannon DS will also travel fort, like Wolf’s fsmash.
• Usmash: Aims her hand upwards with a small electric shock.
• Dsmash: With her cannon DS will first shot to the ground in front, and then behind. This could work too.
  
• Nair: Spins like a screw attack but in reverse.
• Fair: Extends her hand to shot phazon 4 times.
  
• Bair: Samus’ bair from Smash 64, but her leg will go all the way down.
• Uair: Borrowed from Samus, but it makes just one powerful hit. (sounds more like Sheik's uair)
• Dair: Aims her cannon downwards and makes an explosion, with meteor or spike properties.
• Dash attack: A carthwheel kick.

Specials:

• B – Scatter Shot: A chargeable shotgun-like projectile, the more you charge, more projectiles are shot, short ranged, but powerful and damaging the closer you enemy is.
• SideB: Can't think about one specifical move, how shameful , maybe some kind of missiles? or her blue lazor? or her powerful version of the boostball?
  
• UpB – Dive Bomb: Think about Dedede’s upb but going down diagonally, can be cancelable.
• DownB – Crystal Wall: Something like this, with reflector properties.

Taunts:

• Up: Laughs at her opponents.
• Side: Opens her fist and phazon energy starts flowing.
• Down: Makes an “i’m charging my power!” pose, like this.

Stance:

Entrance: Lots of phazon particles appears and takes form of Dark Samus, who then violently falls to the ground.

Winning animations:

1. Something like this, but with flowing energy.
   
2. Laugh maniacally, turns into particles, wich then dissapear.
3. Shots two times to the sky and then strikes a stylish pose.

Loosing: I don’t think that DS would clap to her adversaries, so i think she would just float, like Mewtwo.

As for the SFX, i think the ones from her battles are more than enough, and while DS could perfectly stay silent, she has voices like creepy laughs, screams and grunts and also eerie whisperings.
As for the phazon, Lucario's aura may work well.

Videos of battles against Dark Samus.

Spoiler

First Encounter:

Second Battle:

Echoes Last Battle:

MP3 Corruption Final battle:

*I apologize for any typing or grammar error.

 

[Cool Blue]

So i think it would be a good to share some ideas about Dark Samus.

Just like Mewtwo, Dark Samus walk and running cycles would be floating, i also imagine DS to fall faster tan Samus, akin to her more agressive nature.
DS moveset would be a combination of brutal and acrobatic and even some stylish moves.

Moveset:

• Jab: Maybe something inspired by Metwo’s jab, or just borrow it from Samus.
• Ftilt: Extends her arm and shots phazon from the palm f her hand.
  
• Utilt: Snake’s Brawl utilt, why? Because it looks badass and fits DS imo.
• Dtilt: Something like this.
• Fsmash: Uses the old Samus’ fsmash animation, but instead of just punching with the cannon DS will also travel fort, like Wolf’s fsmash.
• Usmash: Aims her hand upwards with a small electric shock.
• Dsmash: With her cannon DS will first shot to the ground in front, and then behind. This could work too.
  
• Nair: Spins like a screw attack but in reverse.
• Fair: Extends her hand to shot phazon 4 times.
  
• Bair: Samus’ bair from Smash 64, but her leg will go all the way down.
• Uair: Borrowed from Samus, but it makes just one poweful hit. (sounds more like Sheik's uair)
• Dair: Aims her cannon downwards and makes an explosion, with meteor or spike properties.
• Dash attack: A carthwheel kick.

Specials:

• B – Scatter Shot: A chargeable shotgun-like projectile, the more you charge, more projectiles are shot, short ranged, but powerful and damaging the closer you enemy is.
• SideB: Can't actually think about this one, how shameful , maybe some kind of missiles? or her blue lazor?
  
• UpB – Dive Bomb: Think about Dedede’s upb but going down diagonally, can be cancelable.
• DownB – Crystal Wall: Something like this, with reflector properties.

Taunts:

• Up: Laughs at her opponents.
• Side: Opens her fist and phazon energy starts flowing.
• Down: Makes an “i’m charging my power!” pose, like this.

Stance:

Entrance: Lots of phazon particles appears and takes form of Dark Samus, who then violently falls to the ground.

Winning animations:

1. Something like this, but with flowing energy.
   
2. Laugh maniacally, turns into particles, wich then dissapear.
3. Something original.

Loosing: I don’t think that DS would clap to her adversaries, so i think she would just float, like Mewtwo.

As for the SFX, i think the ones from her battles are more than enough, and while DS could perfectly stay silent, she has voices like creepy laughs, screams and grunts and also eerie whisperings.
As for the phazon, Lucario's aura may work well.

Videos of battles against Dark Samus.

Spoiler

First Encounter:

Second Battle:

Echoes Last Battle:

MP3 Corruption Final battle:

*I apologize for any typing or grammar error.

Dang, looks like somebody beat me to the punch.
Edit- Sorry about the double post. I'm pretty sure it was a bug.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Dang, looks like somebody beat me to the punch.
Edit- Sorry about the double post. I'm pretty sure it was a bug.

I'm waiting for your moveset then. The more ideas the merrier.

 

[Cool Blue]

I'm waiting for your moveset then. The more ideas the merrier.

Well then I'd better get to work.

 

[Bleck]

Look dumb to who? You? I can live with that.

Nah, you don't look dumb to me - the word look in that context implies a degree of uncertainty.

That statement made me feel like jumping off a bridge.

Don't let me stop you from doing what you feel like.

 

[Cool Blue]

Nah, you don't look dumb to me - the word look in that context implies a degree of uncertainty.



Don't let me stop you from doing what you feel like.

Just cut to the chase. Don't waste your time (and ours) on sarcasm.

 

[ThreeSided]

That statement made me feel like jumping off a bridge.

Then you probably aren't understanding the point. It's not about play style, it's about general aesthetics and feel. From this perspective, it's not about the play style, it's about how original the character is so far as smash is concerned. He'd rather have a weapon other than a sword represented. Saying that this is irrelevant is like saying that people wouldn't be pissed if marth was removed from the game and an exact functional clone of marth skinned and voiced as Peewee Hermin with a broom. It's not all about the play style, a lot of it is about the flavor, and some people really want something other than another sword to be represented.

 

[Shin F.]

Then you probably aren't understanding the point. It's not about play style, it's about general aesthetics and feel. From this perspective, it's not about the play style, it's about how original the character is so far as smash is concerned. He'd rather have a weapon other than a sword represented. Saying that this is irrelevant is like saying that people wouldn't be pissed if marth was removed from the game and an exact functional clone of marth skinned and voiced as Peewee Hermin with a broom. It's not all about the play style, a lot of it is about the flavor, and some people really want something other than another sword to be represented.

Wouldn't you say that Isaac and Shulk, as characters from completely unrepped games with their own unique designs, voices, powers, abilities, and fighting styles would bring their own unique flavor, even if their weapon of choice just so happens to be a sword? There's a damn lot more to aesthetics than just what weapon the character is using. The way that they use it, the way it feels to swing it with varying amounts of power and speed, and the way it meshes with their special abilities and their character is far more important than the fact the weapon is a sword. That's a very minor detail. It's so small in the grand scheme that it's not even worth noting as more than an afterthought. When it comes down to it, all that's being whined about here is a skin for the weapon they're using, and nothing else.

 

[Bleck]

Wouldn't you say that Isaac and Shulk, as characters from completely unrepped games with their own unique designs, voices, powers, abilities, and fighting styles would bring their own unique flavor, even if their weapon of choice just so happens to be a sword?

Isaac, yes. Shulk, nah.

 

[Saito]

Isn't Shulk ineligible anyway?

lol

 

[Shin F.]

Isn't Shulk ineligible anyway?

lol

For Project M, yeah. The conversation started because we were talking about when a character reveal might happen. I mentioned that I hope Isaac is revealed for PM before Smash 4 has a chance to possibly reveal him. And then someone mentioned they thought that it was more likely Shulk would be in SSB4 rather than Isaac, and then this **** started up.

 

[ThreeSided]

Wouldn't you say that Isaac and Shulk, as characters from completely unrepped games with their own unique designs, voices, powers, abilities, and fighting styles would bring their own unique flavor, even if their weapon of choice just so happens to be a sword? There's a damn lot more to aesthetics than just what weapon the character is using. The way that they use it, the way it feels to swing it with varying amounts of power and speed, and the way it meshes with their special abilities and their character is far more important than the fact the weapon is a sword. That's a very minor detail. It's so small in the grand scheme that it's not even worth noting as more than an afterthought. When it comes down to it, all that's being whined about here is a skin for the weapon they're using, and nothing else.

I'm sure to those who like those characters, it's awesome. Even if someone is sick of swords, if you bring in a character they really like that just happens to have a sword, they probably wouldn't care about the sword and be quite happy. But that's not what I'm talking about. Smash isn't all about "I recognize that character! I like them, and want to play as them!". It's also, "That character looks cool! I don't know them, but they sure look interesting and I'd love to try them out!" While, surely, you could argue that someone could definitely appreciate Isaac's style over marth's or Ikes, there has been a large group of smashers who are more of the opinion "no more swords". I've been hearing it for ages. To them, it's just, "Oh, another sword weilding character. How boring." That's not even my sentiment, it's just what I've heard a lot of. And it's an opinion.

That being said, I want to point out that I personally don't have an issue with Isaac or Shulk. I'm merely pointing out that the whole "no more swords" thing is a real community sentiment that needs to be addressed. I understand that it's harder to see to those who love these characters and/or are a big fan of sword using characters, but to dismiss this sentiment as "bull****" as many have is to ignore an entire group of people that have been making their opinions clear for a long time now.

 

[Shin F.]

I'm sure to those who like those characters, it's awesome. Even if someone is sick of swords, if you bring in a character they really like that just happens to have a sword, they probably wouldn't care about the sword and be quite happy. But that's not what I'm talking about. Smash isn't all about "I recognize that character! I like them, and want to play as them!". It's also, "That character looks cool! I don't know them, but they sure look interesting and I'd love to try them out!" While, surely, you could argue that someone could definitely appreciate Isaac's style over marth's or Ikes, there has been a large group of smashers who are more of the opinion "no more swords". I've been hearing it for ages. To them, it's just, "Oh, another sword weilding character. How boring." That's not even my sentiment, it's just what I've heard a lot of. And it's an opinion.

That being said, I want to point out that I personally don't have an issue with Isaac or Shulk. I'm merely pointing out that the whole "no more swords" thing is a real community sentiment that needs to be addressed. I understand that it's harder to see to those who love these characters and/or are a big fan of sword using characters, but to dismiss this sentiment as "bull****" as many have is to ignore an entire group of people that have been making their opinions clear for a long time now.

As I've said, this is way off-topic. As such, I'm going to spoiler my response. If you want to continue after this, we should do it elsewhere.

Spoiler

To listen to the part of the fanbase that says no more swords is to ignore a part of the fanbase that wants to see their own personal favorite character added, which is, in fact, what Smash Bros is really about. Yes, it also has the purpose of introducing new characters to people who otherwise might not have known them, but that's not a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, it's more of a reason to include them.

You can't just exclude a portion of the fanbase's favorite characters because another portion is butthurt that they use a sword. That's ridiculous. If we did that for every part of the fanbase that doesn't want this kind of character or doesn't want that one, Smash Brothers wouldn't HAVE a roster. That's not to say we should let any old character in, but it would not be right to exclude the main character of a series just because some people who don't care for the character don't like that he uses a sword. The worst that portion will have to deal with is a character they'll probably not use much. We all have those. But the fans of a character that's excluded just because of his weapon will have to deal with the thought that they will NEVER be able to use their favorite character, all because some people complained that they didn't want more swords. It's not as if those anti-sword people aren't getting anything they want out of the game. I'm sure they've got characters they want that are being added as well, and perhaps the people who like Isaac and Shulk don't care for someone like, say, Mega Man. You still don't see them ******** about him because he's another tech user.

It's not like there aren't other forms of combat getting more reps. Villager, like Link, is another item user. Wii Fit Trainer and Little Mac are two more physical melee users. Mega Man is another tech user. None of them were excluded for using weapons that other characters already had. Why should sword users?

 

[Solbliminal]

Nah, you don't look dumb to me

Mmkay.

the word look in that context implies a degree of uncertainty.

Oh darn. I guess I must be uncertain then.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

Hasn't "too many swords" been considered as stupid a complaint as "Ridley's too big" for a while now?

 

[Bleck]

Ridley's def 2 big tho