New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Anti Guy]

• Krystal (No.)
• Pichu (Too cloney, EXTREMELY saturated series)

I share your sentiment on Krystal, but just "No" won't be counted lol. And "Too cloney" for Pichu is actually a huge pro rather than a con.

 

[TopTierPichu]

but everything about Krystal is worthy of a down vote

 

[NWRL]

Based Chameleon Assassin

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Porky from Earthbound/Mother 3 (one of my favourite villains in any video game, masked man is way too spoilery)

I realize that having your votes picked apart might be getting annoying, but I thought I'd point this out in case the only thing holding the Masked Man back for you is the spoiler part:
-Lucas's trophy, while it doesn't reveal the identity of Claus, still reveals that Lucas "crosses swords with his missing brother, Claus." If anyone actually bothers to play the game, and knows Claus is an enemy, chances are they'll connect the dots upon seeing the Masked Man anyways. Not to mention, it shows that Smash has never really avoided spoilers that much anyways.
-Claus could still remain entirely as the Masked Man to avoid spoilers.

If that still comes across as spoilery, or you have other problems with the character, I respect that. Just thought I'd fill you in on the previous discussion.

 

[splat]

Mmasked man is way too spoilery.

Mother 3 was released over 7 years ago, the spoiler cutoff has long passed. Anyone who wanted to play the game probably has by this point.

We should replace Charizard with Charmander because it's a bit of a spoiler to those who've just started Pokemon and are still unaware what Charmander will evolve into.

 

[Guel]

You do realize that

two of your up votes are sword users, right? TP Ganondorf and Claus.

It was already stated that Ganondorfs sword would be restricted. After

reading Claus playstyle and how he would be based off lucas im sure his

would be restricted aswell.

Are you really

gonna downvote someone because they're a sword user? Do you even play

smash bros.? What is the sense in doing that, honestly.

Well maybe

he feels there are already enough sword users. It's just the guy's

opinion.

This. Thank you andalsoandy.

I'll take that as a

downvote for Isaac and Lyn then? Not sure about Hector.

Yes to Isaac and Lyn not Hector.

 

[arcticfox8]

I know this is probably asking too much but we should definitely add in Leon Powalski, or Pigma from Star Wolf.

Leon is canonically an assassin so we could make him around the same speed as Wolf but make his ground game ridiculous compared to Wolf's air game. I think it would be a pretty good fit. Not to mention he has a huge rivalry with Falco, which mirrors Wolf's rivalry to Fox, he's also a founding memeber of Star Wolf... etc etc. Pigma could be the definitive defensive spacie, I guess.

Check your privilege son we all know which Spacie is destined to pierce the heavens of the tier lists with his shine.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

The audience for Project M IS competitive Smashers, making the survey audience in the topic actually perfect. I don't see the backroom should appeal to demographics that aren't the target audience for this mod anyways. Your argument about random surveys doesn't work, it's just inherently flawed.

There's a few reasons why your point is flawed

1) Even if it was just for competitive smashers, there are plenty of competitive smashers who don't go to these forums, who don't even know such a survey is being conducted, so it's still just an accident sampling poll because it's just taking the most convenient and readily available votes without trying to reach outside of a very small niche community in a sub-forum

2) Last I checked, the PMBR didn't make every stage competitive and remove all non-competitive elements from the game, and they actually care about everyone who plays their project, not just competitive smashers. When was this project specifically stated to be only for competitive smashers that frequent smashboards? Since I'm sure that hasn't been stated anywhere, that already makes your point invalid.

3) Even if that was originally the aim, the project has developed far beyond just a small forum-going demographic, near 90,000 downloads now, it would be unfair and irresponsible, not to mention detrimental, to the project to alienate all those who play this game but don't go to this specific forum about it. The point of the clone engine is to raise the project's popularity in all regards, do you expect that to be done well if they completely ignore the people their trying to ring in? That just doesn't make sense, it's counter-intuitive

Even below, Anti Guy says he's not a competitive smasher, so his votes shouldn't count then according to your logic right? Because he's not competitive? That's just flawed logic, competitive smashers aren't the only ones who matter and this survey has a laughably small sample as I calculated it having an 8% margin of error which is horrendous

Basically, you haven't proven this is just accident sampling because it's very clear that it is, not only that, Project: M isn't just aimed at competitive smashers who frequent these boards so you wouldn't have had a point anyways

The point of adding characters is to appeal to new players, and thus increase the popularity of Project M as a whole. If we are only sampling existing players, then the chances are that we miss out on additional supporters for Project M. The less support, the less chances the mod can continue to expand. So by giving say...a Golden Sun fan the chance to vote Issac, you then you have appealed to someone who my not have initially cared about Project M or Smash Bros. even. Regardless of being a mod, they still advertise it. There are two initiatives for advertising an existing franchise:

1) To appeal to fans who are continued supporters of said franchise. (Which is in this case, is us for this mod.)

2) By advertising, you expose your product to new people. This is used as a metaphorical hook to snag what may have been one of the following: A) A Non-Supporter, B) A player of the franchise who overlooked the mod for whatever reason, C) A player looking into competitive gaming, and D) A mix of all or none of the above.

So I do believe Sanity's_Thief has perfectly reasonable logic for his argument. And a quick note, I did have some game development and advertisement 411 from teachers at my trade school as well as the college I attended. (Which I was forced to drop out after the first year or so when the prices of both the dorm and my courses doubled beyond what was affordable to me at the time. I have every intention on returning to college.) So I may not completely know statistics as a course, but I'm not dumbfounded as to what it takes to appeal to fans. The courses and advice I received can very easily translate to what is needed to raise those statistics.

Thank you for seeing the logic

Congrats, you took a business class and learned some basics. So have I .
You do have a point on appealing to new audiences, but the interest from those groups will mostly be temporary with only a few new long time supporters. While appealing to them may make sense in a business where there is potential profit, we must remember that this is a free mod and appealing to short time investors will not lead to any further benefits.
Also take note that many Smash fans are also interested in other franchises related to the crossover. It may seem stupid to ask competitive Smash players exclusively, but asking a forum of fans that are only interested in one demographic (EG, going on a Fire Emblem board will lead to far less varied answers then here). You are certainly seeing a large amount of people voting for Isaac and Ridley, but you're also seeing some very interesting ideas that likely wouldn't come from just pure Smash fans (and even then, Isaac and Ridley certainly hold some heartstrings).
Random surveying has a time and place when developing a new product, Project M has already established itself in a fashion where it has already established an audience and is appealing to FIGHTING game fans.
This is not even to mention the potential disinterest from asking random groups. Finding completely random boards with no bias is difficult, especially in gaming. Means of asking are mostly connected to furms and most forums are exclusive to a particular franchise, thus the answers would still remain bias. Picking and choosing some random people via PM's from multple boards may also come off as difficult. There is potential of the data being far too spread out between every board and not enough focus to make any actions based off the newfound knowledge.
Now, I'm not saying appealing to different audiences is bad, hell, competitive smashers are the periphery demographic for sure. The appeal should come from lightly going over missed characters in Nintendo's history rather then trying to shove what may be hip or cool.

There are ways around this even on this board too. People, when making votes, could also state which franchises they are extremely interested in and thus people are able to judge that particular demographic based off of that extra info. (EG, I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan and anti voted Lyn)

The benefit is popularity, there's nothing to be gained other than that, you're basically saying because the mod is non-profit, it's useless to try to reach out to a bigger audience thus we shouldn't care what anyone else besides competitive forum-going smashers think. That type of aim is detrimental to any project, mod or not, I'm sure the PMBR isn't taking such a stance

Then you say the only way to make this completely non-random is to search on other boards when this is not a good point at all. On top of the PMBR being able to just put a poll on their website for all the 90,000 people who download this project to see, they can reach out to people in real life as well, whether they care to or not is completely up to them, but it's not ok to do a half-assed poll and say it's just as good as one with far more work put into it

I'm not sure if you're aware of this simple fact or not, but this is THE OFFICIAL FORUM FOR PROJECT M. It's the one linked to on the official site. And as far as I know, it's practically the only forum (outside of random IGN stuff). If people want to discuss P:M, they come here. It's not by any means perfect, but it's the closest it's going to get.

Second, not everyone here is competitive. Many people aren't. I'm not. I don't have the time to be competitive; I can only play in my spare time for fun (I'm still competitive casually, but am nowhere near tournament-level skill, which is usually what people mean by "competitive play(ers)"). And many people have already stated that they're not. On the other end of the spectrum, people who download P:M also tend to be more competitive, which would make them more likely to be on the forum.

And regarding the 8% margin of error... Yeah, that IS useless if you're trying to get an actual number and trying to be precise. Saying a survey poll for elections could be anywhere along an 16% spread would be a horrible poll. However, the point here isn't to get an exact number. Who the **** cares? The point is to stratify characters. So someone might have a support from 75 to 86%, for example. That's enough. That means they're liked by a clear majority. That's all I'm aiming for.

This poll however is not advertised on the main site, you haven't gotten word about this poll outside of this small sub-forum, hell I see MattDotZeb frequently, he plays P:M, goes to smashboards, but he's never even heard of this poll, thus it's just accident sampling

Point is this is a small niche sub-forum, you're still only reaching out to the most convenient source, which is a group of smashers who frequent 1 competitive smash forum, the demographic you're reaching out to is too narrow to represent all people interested in P:M

And regarding the 8% margin of error... Yeah, that IS useless

There you have it, I got an exact number for you, you wanted to start this statistics **** and now you're saying "who cares?" Sounds like someone's salty because I used hard mathematical calculations to prove this farce of a survey is laughably flawed and pointless

 

[andalsoandy]

Check your privilege son we all know which Spacie is destined to pierce the heavens of the tier lists with his shine.

THAT AIN'T FALCO

 

[ChronoBound]

We should replace Charizard with Charmander because it's a bit of a spoiler to those who've just started Pokemon and are still unaware what Charmander will evolve into.

Very bad analogy considering Charizard is even on the box to Pokemon Red.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Hector could actually have a pretty dope moveset.
Here are some ideas I had for specials. (I would clone him off of Link or Tink, btw)
[collapse=Open if you're interested]
Up B: Standard attack animation (whatever it's called)

I couldn't find the animation I wanted, but he jumps WAY higher. It wouldn't allow for a lot of lateral recovery, but it could be used as an aerial finisher, with a hitbox all the way through (sweet spot on the axe, sour spot on his body).


Side B: Hand-Axe (using the Boomerang as a base)

Functioning almost exactly like the boomerang. Maybe doing more damage with less hit-stun as a trade-off.


Neutral B: Warrior Critical Spin Attack

Chargable. Once fully charged, allows Hector to move across the stage while spinning, similar to Toon Link, but a LOT slower. Press B again for the optional second hit. Instant fast fall if used in the air.

While I know Hector doesn't do this in-game, just look at all of the FE and Mother characters. A lot of them take attacks from their allies or just pull some crap out of nowhere (Eruption? Seriously, what is that?)


Down B: Parry

Similar to Counter in function, with twice the number of active frames Marth's Counter has. The counter-attack does 4% and has set knockback, sending the opponent a considerably far distance. A "get out mah face" move, primarily.


FINAL SMASH: Armads Critical (just for lols)

Stuns all players on stage, INSTAKILL on axe hit, causes a tremor effect that does 30% to any characters standing on the stage that aren't hit by the axe.
[/collapse]

In terms of playstyle, he'd be like the humanoid version of Bowser. Super-armor on a few of his attacks, and very slow and predictable.

I would make him somewhere around Snake's vBrawl weight, with very little air control.

Thoughts?

 

[Anti Guy]

This poll however is not advertised on the main site, you haven't gotten word about this poll outside of this small sub-forum, hell I see MattDotZeb frequently, he plays P:M, goes to smashboards, but he's never even heard of this poll, thus it's just accident sampling

Point is this is a small niche sub-forum, you're still only reaching out to the most convenient source, which is a group of smashers who frequent 1 competitive smash forum, the demographic you're reaching out to is too narrow to represent all people interested in P:M



There you have it, I got an exact number for you, you wanted to start this statistics **** and now you're saying "who cares?" Sounds like someone's salty because I used hard mathematical calculations to prove this farce of a survey is laughably flawed and pointless

You can't really use one person as an argument, and like I said, it's a sub-forum, but it's the only and official P:M, so for an unofficial poll, that's as good as it's gonna get.


And wtf? Don't pull my quote out of context, especially one that's followed by a huge "but"; that's a scumbag move. You just completely ignored what I said after.

 

[splat]

Very bad analogy considering Charizard is even on the box to Pokemon Red.

It was a silly little remark to show how silly his argument was. No need to take it so serious.

Hector could actually have a pretty dope moveset.

Thoughts?

How would his Hand-Axe work? He'd toss his main weapon, would he stand still until it's returned to him/

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

How would his Hand-Axe work? He'd toss his main weapon, would he stand still until it's returned to him/

Naw, he'd pull out a second, much smaller axe, and would be able to move freely after throwing it. Almost exactly like the Boomerang, with an axe and a slash effect.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. Adding a 1/2 vote for Hector. That man needs support.

 

[Guel]

The spin to me seems too close to the links however the mix of projectile/counter would give him some all around play. You make me regret not voting for him. Glad I didnt down vote him though.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Lol @ the people downvoting a sword user, then upvoting a sword user. Hypocrisy abounds, how about you guys just say you don't like the character, cause that's how it feels like with many of the downvotes.

Anyway nice moveset for hector cp3 and lebron james, kobe would approve.

 

[arcticfox8]

THAT AIN'T FALCO

THAT AIN'T FALCO?

 

[Paradoxium]

You do realize that two of your up votes are sword users, right? TP Ganondorf and Claus.

Well maybe he feels there are already enough sword users. It's just the guy's opinion.

Oh please, down voting someone because they're a sword user just means that you don't know the depth of the game. There are a number of sword users in the game, none of them play the same. Every sword character is vastly different. What, you don't like the range on swords? There are plenty of characters with more range who don't have swords, weapons don't matter, it just depends on the play style the pmbr are aiming for. Down voting a character because they have a sword is just stupid, whether they have a sword or not a character is unique. It would be like down voting someone because they use punching, or have projectiles, those reasons aren't to different from the sword user argument now are they.

And I challenge you to find a similarity between sword users that has a negative impact on the game, I doubt you will find a single one

And ps, my votes are based on the creativeness and the impact of the characters games, not on if they have swords or not

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

...

Ey, Anti-Guy.
Permission to swap my +1 for Lyn over to Hector?

(added a Final Smash to my moveset, just cause)

 

[andalsoandy]

THAT AIN'T FALCO?

OH
OH
OH
WOMBO COMBO.
"GET YO ASS WHOOPED."

 

[TopTierPichu]

Very bad analogy considering Charizard is even on the box to Pokemon Red.

well the it is just really implied that the trophy data says "evolves into dragon thing"

 

[Guel]

Oh please, down voting someone because they're a sword user just means that you don't know the depth of the game. There are a number of sword users in the game, none of them play the same. Every sword character is vastly different. What, you don't like the range on swords? There are plenty of characters with more range who don't have swords, weapons don't matter, it just depends on the play style the pmbr are aiming for. Down voting a character because they have a sword is just stupid, whether they have a sword or not a character is unique. It would be like down voting someone because they use punching, or have projectiles, those reasons aren't to different from the sword user argument now are they.

And I challenge you to find a similarity between sword users that has a negative impact on the game, I doubt you will find a single one

And ps, my votes are based on the creativeness and the impact of the characters games, not on if they have swords or not

Im well aware of the depth of the game. I just feel we have enough sword characters as we have enough pokemon. Just looking for some variety that is all. My vote is final.

 

[Pkjoan]

My only candidates:

-Pichu: Is the only missing melee veteran. (Options: Clone Pikachu and change some Pichu attacks and specials)
-Toon Zelda/Sheik: It could be interesting to have another toon LoZ character.
-Issac

 

[Starcutter]

tetra's better then toon sheik. that's not even a thing that exists.

 

[andalsoandy]

I'd like to replace my upvote for Isaac witth Sandbag.

I'm dead serious.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Sigh, I had high hopes for this thread, it started off nicely....

then came the pichu arguments and now someone just seriously considered sandbag....

I bet the PMBR is laughing at this thead right now. I hope they just go with the characters THEY think would work...

 

[Urielhelix]

I will vote for Dark Samus, Isaac, Lyn and the Black Shadow and Ganondorf!

oh and also andy! we need more crazy guys!! haha

tired at work and i completely typed the wrong guy! hahaha

 

[Saito]

Sigh, I had high hopes for this thread, it started off nicely....

then came the pichu arguments and now someone just seriously considered sandbag....

I bet the PMBR is laughing at this thead right now. I hope they just go with the characters THEY think would work...

Then you realize that the PMBR might actually be considering Pichu.

But I agree with your sentiment about hoping that the PMBR going with the characters they think would work.

 

[arcticfox8]

...oh wait I already used that one

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Then you realize that the PMBR might actually be considering Pichu.

But I agree with your sentiment about hoping that the PMBR going with the characters they think would work.

Lol If you read the whole thread, you'd notice I don't really care if pichu was added or not, if anything i'd say he'd be in. I was just annoyed with the arguements.

But yes again, I think they should go with who they think best.

 

[Saito]

Lol If you read the whole thread, you'd notice I don't really care if pichu was added or not, if anything i'd say he'd be in. I was just annoyed with the arguements.

I probably read it, but it has been a while.

Whats wrong with an argument? Well I prefer debates and/or discussion but it's whatever.

(Inb4argumentaboutarugments.)

 

[andalsoandy]

Sigh, I had high hopes for this thread, it started off nicely....

then came the pichu arguments and now someone just seriously considered sandbag....

I bet the PMBR is laughing at this thead right now. I hope they just go with the characters THEY think would work...

Well personally I think it would be fun to play as a big ol' punching bag just hopping around slamming into people. If the PMBR picked it, no one would have expected it, people would riot in the streets, set things on fire... etc.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I probably read it, but it has been a while.

Whats wrong with an argument? Well I prefer debates and/or discussion but it's whatever.

(Inb4argumentaboutarugments.)

Its fine, but when the argument is about 40+ pages that makes the OP make a separate thread just for that said argument, then yeah you know why I- and most people were annoyed.

@Above me, there's just one problem..... PMBR IS NOT SAKURAI! They wouldn't do something like that, they would pick a character that would be easy to make and that would generate hype, or they would pick a character that they like. Sandbag isn't any of those things, a lot of people would be disappointed with the sandbag.

 

[andalsoandy]

@Above me, there's just one problem..... PMBR IS NOT SAKURAI! They wouldn't do something like that, they would pick a character that would be easy to make and that would generate hype, or they would pick a character that they like. Sandbag isn't any of those things, a lot of people would be disappointed with the sandbag.

Well I most certainly wouldn't be. That's why I changed my vote to him. Sheesh, it's my opinion, no matter how obnoxious you may think it is.

 

[Anti Guy]

Ey, Anti-Guy.
Permission to swap my +1 for Lyn over to Hector?

(added a Final Smash to my moveset, just cause)

You changed your vote way too much dude.

And andalsoandy, no vote changing. The amount of spur-of-the-moment voting and changing is getting ridiculous, especially for random as **** characters

 

[Saito]

You changed your vote way too much dude.

And andalsoandy, no vote changing. The amount of spur-of-the-moment voting and changing is getting ridiculous.

To be fair, everyone should be allowed to change their votes whenever a new option presents itself. I know it makes it hard on you but it's a price that we are willing to make you pay.

 

[TopTierPichu]

can I make many alternate accounts to get Pichu to sky rocket to the top of list?

 

[XRagingxDemonX]

Can't really count the Liquid downvote because of just not liking the playstyle and because fighting against Snake isn't fun...

Your joking right?? The fact each sonic character has been downvoted b/c of 3 party character reason and not having diverse or a reason like not having an interesting or bring anything diverse. Or the same base meaning that i simply elaborated on. I put details instead of just going the easy lame route as to dismissing every possible thing to be stated. I acknowledged what wsas said about liquid and i dont like it. Plz re-read other peoples downvotes or something b/c they didnt have.much of any deep reason for it other than the common reasons just to make sure isaac and their others get in.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

You changed your vote way too much dude.

Fair enough.
At least I asked.

 

[arcticfox8]

Really guys, nothing is more hype to me than Slippy. Think of Luigi with a Spacie moveset. Thats Slippy to me and that sounds extremely hype. Maybe he could have a chargeable blaster? Maybe his forward moves could be his kill moves? Maybe his firefox could be blue because it would look cool? A Paralyzing shine? Really I like the idea of the PMBR playing with the Spacie formula, I just also happen to want Slippy. The two ideas just kinda go together in my mind and make a big ol' ball o' hyp