New Character: Alice (Balloon Kid and Balloon Fight GB)

[parrothead]

*BUMP*

If Sakurai said he is not adding characters that are only popular, then why the freak are many people being like "I don't give a **** what Sakurai said, I want *insert character that is only popular here* in SSBB!"?

Even though a nameless Balloon Fighter has appeared in more titles than Alice, a nameless Balloon Fighter was only used for "retro action". If Nintendo wants to create a REAL Balloon Fight title, they'll have to make it the direct sequel to Balloon Kid/Balloon Fight GB, by adding these modes:

Story Mode: Same gameplay of Balloon Kid's 1P Mode, where you collect balloons while avoiding and/or defeating enemies.

VS. Mode: Same gameplay of the original Balloon Fight's 1P and 2P Modes, where you try to pop as many Balloon Fighters' balloons.

AND

Balloon Trip: The classic mode where you collect balloons while avoiding sparks and the water.

If most of you don't want generic Nintendo characters, then why do y'all still want a nameless Balloon Fighter in SSBB who is also generic? Sakurai is searching for unique characters, and Alice is more unique than a nameless Balloon Fighter. Why am I not just calling him "Balloon Fighter"? Because his name isn't like a super-hero name, it's just like "police officer", "fire fighter", "soldier", and other occupations.

If Sakurai adds a character that is only popular, people might not enjoy it. For example:

Before playing SSBB: "Wow! Geno's in SSBB! I'm going to buy it and play it now!"

After playing SSBB: "What the freak!? Geno sucks @$$! I'm going to sell SSBB!"

 

[GenG]

If Sakurai said he is not adding characters that are only popular, then why the freak are many people being like "I don't give a **** what Sakurai said, I want *insert character that is only popular here* in SSBB!"?

I think you misunderstood Sakurai.

When he said that, he wasn't refering specifically to extreme underdogs like Alice, Leaf or Mike Jones. He was pointing at those characters who were or are moderately popular, like Pit, the Ice Climbers, Ness, Marth or Game & Watch. Pit isn't exactly the most popular character ever, but he is special somehow. Kid Icarus was a great game and back to the NES era it was at the level of Zelda and Metroid. Other "non-popular" characters may be Little Mac, Balloon Fighter, Geno or Takamaru. Not uber popular, but not underdogs anyway.

Now, unfortunately, Alice can't say the same. She lacks the fanbase, the recognition and the required status of classic to bear that "honor".

 

[parrothead]

But after the release of Balloon Fight GB in Japan, it became kind of popular, because people in Japan wanted a sequel to Balloon Fight, giving Alice a pretty good chance to enter SSBB at least as a trophy.

 

[parrothead]

*BUMP*

Read this.

 

[GenG]

Interesting debate, but take a look at Wario Ware, Twisted, Touched, Smooth Moves and Tetris DS to see WHO is the real and Nintendo promoted "Balloon Fighter", if the generic or Alice (heck, in Smooth Moves there is even a 3D remake of the original game).

It's not matter of name and personality, it's about repping and popularity. BF has both, and a lot. And Nintendo wants it this way.

 

[parrothead]

If Nintendo ever decides to create a new Balloon Fight title with storyline and many different features, then I bet it will star Alice and her little brother.

Adding a Balloon Fighter instead of Alice is just like adding the green-haired, wired boxer from the Punch-Out!! arcades (presumed by some people to be known as "Challenger") instead of Little Mac (NES and/or SNES version).

 

[Johans Nidorino]

Gross Why they have to change the character art in the US?

America's was first.

Interesting debate, but take a look at Wario Ware, Twisted, Touched, Smooth Moves and Tetris DS to see WHO is the real and Nintendo promoted "Balloon Fighter", if the generic or Alice (heck, in Smooth Moves there is even a 3D remake of the original game).

Of course they had to include the original Balloon Fight there. 9-Volt's games are "retro action". I'm talking especially about WarioWare: Twisted!; there, the games are strictly NES (G&W or old Nintendo hardware is not referenced, ported, or shown in that game). Alice was not in NES, and since Balloon Kid is a sequel for Balloon Fight, one could argue that the appearance of Ballon Fight stuff in those game speaks for Balloonist/Balloon Fighter/the Balloon Fighter, Balloon Man and Alice; the three of them.

The cameos in Tetris DS are of classic NES and Arcade games, too. Classic Mario, classic Metroid, classic Excitebike.

Super Smash Bros. Melee? Of course! Sakurai was looking for a NES representative and only Balloonist/Balloon Fighter/the Balloon Fighter was in the NES and Arcade version of Balloon Fight.

Balloon Fight-e? Of course! e-Cards are not supposed to hold games with more than a few KB of content, are they?

Bring a new standalone game with Balloonist/Balloon Fighter/the Balloon Fighter in it, and that may perhaps give us all the assurance that he is the one to represent Balloon Fight in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

I must admit that cameo in WarioWare: Smooth Moves will be interesting.

 

[GenG]

Yes, that alone have increased a lot the popularity of the old Balloon Fighter: Animal Crossing, Wario Ware series, Smash Bros. Melee, Tetris DS, various Famicom music compilations like Donkey Konga 3 or Famicom 20th Anniversary.

Knowing this, it's pretty obvious that Balloon Fight is one of the most valuables vintage games for Nintendo right now, being featured on everything with the word retro on it.

Now, the fact:

"They won't waste this slot to put a character from the same series that isn't as popular, valuable and special".

Sure, the "generic" Balloon Fighter doesn't have a personality nor a background, but they can easily make up one as they did for Mr. Game & Watch (Flat Zone lol).

Being Balloon Fight GB the most recent Balloon Fight game isn't a heavy reason to make Alice the BF representative in Smash Bros. That game came out in 2000 >only in Japan< (the original was released in 1991), had a moderate to low success and there haven't been any cameos or appareances in these six years (15 years for the rest of the world). Right now, Nintendo is promoting BF in everything they can. If there is a new BF game, it will have a revamped Balloon Fighter design, or a new character with strong resemblance.

Brawl-wise, there isn't any point on replacing one of the most popular retro characters with one of the most obscure characters in Nintendo history. It's just... stupid, somehow...
If there were any possibility of Alice being a pretty popular and moderately used character, yeah, I would admit it, but there isn't. Not right now.

 

[parrothead]

If Balloon Kid is not as popular as Balloon Fight, then why did Nintendo create Balloon Kid? To support the Game Boy? To turn Balloon Fight into a large franchise? OR WHAT!?!

Balloon Fight GB became kind of popular in Japan. Click here for Hitoshi Yamagami's interview about it. If you want to translate it yourself, click here, and start your translation.

EDIT: There hasn't been a single original Game Boy representative ever used; that includes Alice (Balloon Kid and Balloon Fight GB), Muddy the Mole (Mole Mania), and Sablé & Richard (For the Frog the Bell Tolls).

And there hasn't been a Game Boy Color representative; that includes Kevin (Monster Tactics) and Hiro (Card Hero).

 

[parrothead]

*BUMP*

Here is a speed run of Balloon Kid.

 

[Stryks]

Still gotta go with good ol' balloon fighter, sorry parrothead, im more of a retro guy when choosing the old or the new version, besides he has the word FIGHTER in his name XD...

 

[Croco]

Alice has more CHARACTER then "Balloon Fighter"
I say YES as a character for Brawl.

She gave a story element for Balloon Fighter..
Sadly she was overlooked.

Smash needs more females.. and even better, a young girl..

I rather battle against alice then some unnamed dude witha helmet.

I just hope Masahiro Sakurai or the ones deciding on the characters don't overlook her.

 

[Stryks]

I guess its pretty much taste, like I said I prefer retro over new versions of characters (like bomberman, prefer the old one over the act zero bomberman), I know theyre arent the same character, still shes more like the replacement of balloon fighter, which I dont like XD...

 

[GenG]

Midna has more CHARACTER then "Zelda"
I say YES as a character for Brawl.

She gave a story element for Zelda..

Smash needs more females.. and even better, a young girl..

I rather battle against Midna then some sissy princess who never does anything.

I just hope Masahiro Sakurai or the ones deciding on the characters don't overlook her.

 

[parrothead]

Midna has more CHARACTER then "Zelda"
I say YES as a character for Brawl.

She gave a story element for Zelda..

Smash needs more females.. and even better, a young girl..

I rather battle against Midna then some sissy princess who never does anything.

I just hope Masahiro Sakurai or the ones deciding on the characters don't overlook her.

Are you saying that you decided to choose Alice over a generic Balloon Fighter?

 

[GenG]

Are you saying that you decided to choose Alice over a generic Balloon Fighter?

No ;(

I wanted to point out that a personality (does Alice has one? She is cutesy and has a name, but that's all) isn't enough to choose characters. Midna is a more complex character than Zelda, but Zelda is a CLASSIC. They'll never cut a classic to put a more obscure character (Midna isn't really an obscure, but the point stands).

Now apply that to the Alice vs BF issue. Alice is obscure, BF not. You may like one better than the other but the word CHANCES is pointing to one side only.

 

[parrothead]

If personality isn't enough, then what are some other things that make characters good? Doesn't Balloon Fighter also have a personality? Can you find some things on the Positive and Negative Sides of Balloon Fighter? Here are some for Alice.

Positive Side:

* She is one of Nintendo's few young female protagonists.

* She is the only Balloon Fighter with a real name.

Negative Side:

* Not as well known as a generic Balloon Fighter.

* Perhaps she doesn't have a personality, but someone said that she does.

Many GameBoy versions of NES games seemed better, but most people still prefer the NES era.

BurgerTime (NES) VS. BurgerTime Deluxe (GB),

Solomon's Key (NES) VS. Solomon's Club (GB),

NES MegaMan/NES RockMan series (NES) VS. RockMan World series (GB; mostly known as the GB MegaMan series I guess),

Kid Icarus (NES) VS. Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB),

Super Mario Bros. 1 (NES) VS. Super Mario Land 1 (GB),

Super Mario World (SNES) VS. Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins (GB),

AND of course,

Balloon Fight (NES and Arcade) VS. Balloon Kid (GB) and Balloon Fight GB (GBC)

 

[parrothead]

*BUMP*

The only young female Nintendo characters I could think of are Lip, Furil, and Alice. Is there someone else I'm missing?

If Sakurai doesn't want to add Lip nor Furil, then he can add Alice, because she is also a young girl, and the SSB series needs one. Also, she is one of the characters that appeared in titles released in only two continents, like Ness, Geno, Mike Jones (StarTropics series), and Kururin (Kururin series).

 

[Croco]

*BUMP*

The only young female Nintendo characters I could think of are Lip, Furil, and Alice. Is there someone else I'm missing?

If Sakurai doesn't want to add Lip nor Furil, then he can add Alice, because she is also a young girl, and the SSB series needs one. Also, she is one of the characters that appeared in titles released in only two continents, like Ness, Geno, Mike Jones (StarTropics series), and Kururin (Kururin series).

I completely agree with you..
Balloon Kid was successful in Japan.. even a remake for the GB color was released in Japan. Like Eternal Darkness, this game was underrated and didn't get enough commercial attention.
The only 1st party female characters I can think you didn't mention are Paula and Toadette..

SB needs a young female fighter and Alice should be that choice.
She was a playable character..
She supports the "STORY" of the balloon fighter game and world.
She has character.. and she is full of color.
Her personality is much like a young female hero.. she is brave and I will say it.. "Cute but deadly." She goes so far to save her younger brother.. so far to even venture inside a whale!

Now for..
"Balloon Fighter"
Well the character is dull..
No story behind him except that he pops balloons.. and is in some sort of battle against pointed nose bad guys.
Even in the trophies in Melee is reads that his name is unknown.
I find his look just dull.. no character.. etc.

Sakurai I believe is looking for forgotten Nintendo characters that have the "Feel" for Smash Brothers.

Alice I personally believe has the "feel" for a smash character.
even better.. if people want her to support the Balloon Fighter series more.. they can give her an alternate costume sporting her with the classic Balloon Fighter attire.

Now I would recommend that anyone who disagrees with me.. just play the game "Balloon Kid." you then might change your minds.

 

[parrothead]

*bump*

Another reason why I pick Alice, is that Balloon Fighter wears overalls, and so does Mario and Luigi, which can cause confusion. Although we saw Mario and Luigi fighting in SSB64 and SSBM, we didn't get confused between them. However, look at Wario, he was changed from his original costume to his WarioWare costume, possibly to avoid confusion between Mario's Wario-esque costume. Also, Balloon Fighter and Mario have the same colors.

If Alice doesn't enter, then I believe Nintendo would use Tingle, because he appeared in this Japan-Only DS title.

 

[parrothead]

Sorry for the double-post. I was trying to modify my post. Delete this post you are reading.

 

[tstumo]

im thinking balloon fighter is going to get in. Alice, while is young cute and has the personality just as mentioned isnt the original. and isnt recognizable. balloon fighter almost made it in melee. if he did would this topic even be started? no. his chances are 10x better than Alice because he was already considered and made it to the beta version. He may lack a personality going into brawl but im sure his moves and the graphical update he will receive will give him that. him wearing overalls wont make him look like mario seeing as there will be 2 or 3 big balloons im pretty sure the overalls will be the least of the issues. Not saying Alice wouldnt be good. just not over balloon fighter.

 

[parrothead]

Adding Balloon Fighter instead of Alice is just like adding Wire Boxer instead of Little Mac (NES or SNES version). Alice has a name and personality, while Balloon Fighter doesn't. Little Mac (NES or SNES version) has a name and personality, while Wire Boxer doesn't.

 

[GenG]

Lol personality.

G&W trophy said that he has personality, and it's true. BF has it too.

And BF has this. He will be in Brawl for sure, there is no way around it.

 

[parrothead]

That video you showed was for retro reasons. Take a look at the SNES Star Fox, most people prefer Star Fox 64.

If name and personality isn't enough, then what else does she need?

 

[GenG]

Retro... reasons? It's a FULL minigame named Balloon Fight in the recently released Wario Ware Smooth Moves, not a japanese-only game like Rythm Tengoku.

And take a look:

· Main games:
Balloon Fight (1984, ARC)
VS Balloon Fight (1984, ARC)
Balloon Fight (1985, NES)
Balloon Fight (1986, G&W)
Balloon Fight (2004, GBA)

· Cameo appareances:
Animal Crossing (2001, GC)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001, GC)
Wario Ware (2003, GBA)
Famicom 20th Anniversary [featured remix and soundtrack] (2004, official OST)
Wario Ware Twisted! (2004, GBA)
Wario Ware Touched! (2005, GBA)
Donkey Konga 3 [featured theme] (2005, GC)
Tetris DS (2005, DS)
Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (2007, Wii)

Alice has... personality? I think I've said this before, but replacing one of the MOST POPULAR retro characters with one of the LEAST POPULAR Nintendo characters EVER, isn't just right. Nintendo is pushing the Balloon Fighter forward, it's the BF franchise mascot, not Alice. She deserves a trophy, not a playable character.

Waluigi has a name and a personality, but he most likely won't be in Brawl. Guess why...

 

[Stryks]

I agree with GenG, just because she has a name and personality doesnt give her a right no be in brawl, and replace balloon fighter, a throphy, like GenG said, is ok, but not a character, balloon fighter is way, WAY more popular than alice, and he was rumored to be in melee, he has a great chance in being in brawl...

 

[parrothead]

I guess y'all are right, popularity is more important than status. However, Sakurai is searching for unique characters more than popular characters.

Adding Alice instead of a generic Balloon Fighter would be just like adding Moogle from Nintendo's version of Lode Runner called Power Lode Runner:

Instead of the generic Lode Runner from most of Hudson Soft's Lode Runner titles:

Not only that. It would also be like adding one of the ExciteBikers from ExciteBike 64 like "Jumpin' Jim" Rivers:

Instead of a generic ExciteBiker:

Some characters that have a personality and a name, like Little Mac and Ryota Hayami, are wanted more than the generic boxer from the Punch-Out!! arcades (and perhaps the blonde-haired boxer from SNES Super Punch-Out!!) and a generic Wave Racer from Wave Race for Game Boy.

 

[parrothead]

*bump*

Balloon Fighter was not intended to be in SSBM. He wasn't even in the beta version.

Sakurai considered putting Balloon Fighter but didn't because he thought Balloon Fighter would be useless when his balloons popped. He also considered Urban Champion (little fighting possibilities), Bubbles (nonstop turning = hard to play), Excitebiker (always riding on the motorcycle).

So he settled on the Ice Climbers. In short, the Ice Climbers were the fifth choice who got in by default.

 

[rm88]

Balloon Fighter could have two different movesets, one with balloons and one without them. After your balloons pop, you automatically switch to the non-balloon moveset, and you could get new balloons by taunting.

 

[GenG]

Sakurai considered putting Balloon Fighter but didn't because he thought Balloon Fighter would be useless when his balloons popped.

Do you have proof for this claim? What if his balloons couldn't pop?

 

[ClarkJables]

Alice would be an interesting character in that she is a female character and has more personality. the one thing i don't like about her is that she doesn't have a fish move like i could see balloon fighter having. either he would pull the fish out and beat people with it, or he could summon the fish to eat people, like it could grab people for balloon fighter while he is in the air. either way both moves could be a Bv move. plus balloon fighter could gain personality from being in brawl.

 

[parrothead]

Alice would be an interesting character in that she is a female character and has more personality. the one thing i don't like about her is that she doesn't have a fish move like i could see balloon fighter having. either he would pull the fish out and beat people with it, or he could summon the fish to eat people, like it could grab people for balloon fighter while he is in the air. either way both moves could be a Bv move. plus balloon fighter could gain personality from being in brawl.

Alice has encountered fish in Balloon Kid.

I know popularity is important, because of what Joe Dirt (David Spade) said, "It's not what you want, it's what the customers want.", however, whatever and whoever is currently being used is sometimes more important than popularity. Look at the SNES Super Punch-Out!!, why was it added to EA's Fight Night Round 2? I believe it's because the SNES Super Punch-Out!! is Nintendo's current and most recent Punch-Out!! title.

 

[y3nia659]

She has a name and he does not. She also stands out and well BF looks a bit like Mario.

 

[ClarkJables]

you guys do have a point, and the snes mac in fight night was the ugliest thing i have ever seen. i will support her but only if she gets a fish move and the original balloon fight music, that was some great music...

 

[parrothead]

Do you have proof for this claim? What if his balloons couldn't pop?

That would be very odd if his balloons wouldn't pop. When Balloon Fighter's balloons pop, he falls straight into the water, even when over land. But for Alice, she will land on land, but if she is over water while her balloons pop, then she will fall into the water.

Perhaps Nintendo would do this for Balloon Fighter and Alice (Balloon Kid):

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/53494874/

 

[NeoFalconHavok]

PARROTHEAD!? Wait a seck....are you posting threads and seeing how many people agree with you so you can mock them on NinDB?

 

[parrothead]

*bump*

Please don't quote this post. It will take up a lot of space on this thread's page.

============================================================

I asked the owner of Nintendo Database, FryGuy64, if he would please scan the Balloon Kid box art and artworks in its manual, and he did.

Here is FryGuy64's quote with images he posted.:

Gladly sir!!

First, have some higher resolution boxart. Horrible, isn't it!

The drawn artwork all appears in section 7, a double page spread of character introductions, suitably entitled &quot;7. Introducing the Characters&quot;. Here's another pic!

The following descriptions all come from the manual. My notes are in parenthesis.

ALICE - The heroine

JIM - Alice's mischievous younger brother

SAMM - Alice's friend and eternal rival
(Player II play as Samm in the multiplayer game)

BEAKY BIRDS and POKEY PENGUINS - In the air and on the ground, Pokey and Beaky will bring you down.
(Hahaha, Pokey)

FLOPPY FISH and FLICKY FROG - Sea to sea you better not blunder, because these two will pull you under.

CHOW CHOW THE ALLIGATOR and WONKA THE WALRUS - With a bite like steel, these hungry boy's [sic] will want you for their meal.

BUZZY BEES - Your balloons they will pop, and then you will drop.

SPARKYS - Stunning to see, but shocking to me.

BURNER BOYS - You better look, before you get cooked.

WACKA WACKA WOLF - Get by this boss or Jim will always be lost.

That is all he said.

PARROTHEAD!? Wait a seck....are you posting threads and seeing how many people agree with you so you can mock them on NinDB?

No, not really. Why?

 

[the grim lizard]

GEEZ...why must we bump these pointless threads?? Not to mention, double posting to do say. I give Alice the thumbs down...as in, off with her head. Original guy or nothing.

 

[Michael Blaine]

Nah, classic balloon fighter for me please. We don't need Joan Benet Ramsey in brawl