-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
New Brawl AT *Moon Dash*
- Thread starter saviorslegacy
- Start date
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
It just looks like another mindgames technique. Maybe good for a fake-out, but that's all I'm getting out of it.
Why is this better then just stutter-stepping in most situations?
Don't get me wrong, I'm giving it a chance, but I'm still not convinced.
It does seem like another mindgame technique, although it seems like it also increased the ranges of mario's f-smash and marth's grab?
The directions for the dash delay are walk forward, tap the control stick back and return it to neutral position as fast as you can(flick your thumb back) The faster the flick, the less distance you go. Also known as the ZAD-Zero Acceleration Dash
Moon Dash is like a pivot slide except delaying it on the dash delay while keeping the forward walking momentum.
The purpose for the dash delay is to have them attack while you dash back. Usually when they're jumping around, you can spin slide and simply walk around until they get too close and go for an attack. You can catch them out of the pivot grab when they whiff the attack, which is really nice for characters with good setups out of grabs(IC, D3, Falco, Pikachu, Snake, almost everybody)
For the Fsmash, as all of you know, you can cancel the beginning dash animation with a fsmash, That being said, you can dash delay, then re-tap the same dash direction and C-stick the opposite direction to do the Fsmash cancel in the video. I could be mistaken, but Marth's Fsmash tipped at a pretty close distance.
Moon Dash is like a pivot slide except delaying it on the dash delay while keeping the forward walking momentum.
The purpose for the dash delay is to have them attack while you dash back. Usually when they're jumping around, you can spin slide and simply walk around until they get too close and go for an attack. You can catch them out of the pivot grab when they whiff the attack, which is really nice for characters with good setups out of grabs(IC, D3, Falco, Pikachu, Snake, almost everybody)
For the Fsmash, as all of you know, you can cancel the beginning dash animation with a fsmash, That being said, you can dash delay, then re-tap the same dash direction and C-stick the opposite direction to do the Fsmash cancel in the video. I could be mistaken, but Marth's Fsmash tipped at a pretty close distance.
Kyari
Smash Lord
What the **** is a mindgame technique?
PFANT
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2009
- Messages
- 48
yo savior, i'm going to make a video tomorrow(the time tho depends on when i wake up) showing some applications to this tech to disband all the people saying how worthless it is......AKA i'll actually edit the video this time and show some stuff besides jabs and include pivot boosting into charged smashes and what not. i'll make sure to include squirtle becuase if i am remembering correctly, he can do some crazy shizz out of this along with the rest of the cast that have effective pivot boosts.
on a side note i won my first money match tonight, hustled this kid for 4 dollars, it was Glorious
on a side note i won my first money match tonight, hustled this kid for 4 dollars, it was Glorious
Palpi
Smash Hero
How does moonddashing + approach overcome spaced/retreating aerials? ....
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
A well spaced Moon Dash and a well spaced airial havel two things in common. That is that they are well spaced. At least on the ground you have more options and you aren't forced to eat landing lag.
As for retreating airials... "I didn't say it was an answer for everything."
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Stop what?
When you do retreating aerials, it locks you down to using that aerial. With the Dash delay into Moon dash, your options aren't limited and you're still spaced from the opponent. You can jump, pivot grab, Fsmash, Side B, Up B, roll away, or simply run away from a Dash delay without moon dashing if you see they're not lagging or they're trying to bait your approach. You can do that with a spaced aerial.
If they predict the moon dash, you can do anything of the above to get away. If they predict the retreating aerial, they're no other way out of it when you use it. You're going to get hit.
Palpi
Smash Hero
If they predict the moon dash.
i lol'd.
Use this against a top marth in tourney or a MM. I want to see this actually used to the extent that you rave about.
i lol'd.
Use this against a top marth in tourney or a MM. I want to see this actually used to the extent that you rave about.
If you're doing nothing but walking forward and dashing back trying to bait them into it, it's very possible to predict it, but still very hard to punish since they're not really limiting themselves.
As a Falco main, if I see a Marth use their fair wall most Marth's like to do, I can throw out a dash delay when they're coming into me. If they be aggressive and come all of the way in, it should space the second fair if done right. If they move away and do a falling back fair, then falco can phantasm out of the dash delay in between the fair hitbox and Marth landing. If falco cancels the phantasm to stop next to Marth, it's a free tech chase if it spikes him(hits before Marth lands) or an aerial follow up if Falco hits right when Marth lands.
What's good about this is that it doesn't limit options. Attacking just to space limits options.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think it does limit options.
Though you can do anything out of this, as you start to do this, you are limited to the ground at first, to actually do the dash delay.
Though you can do anything out of this, as you start to do this, you are limited to the ground at first, to actually do the dash delay.
I was assuming that people always do it with perfect spacing, both the attack and the dash delay. The opponent would need to predict either move before they did it. In the prediction scenario, the dash delay does have more options out of it. The only time you're really limited to the ground is when you first do it because that's what you're thinking to do. You can even do a retreating aerial out of the dash delay.
The dash delay takes advantage of extended hurt boxes when they miss attacks. Even the dash pivot spacing is enough to dodge a lot of attacks. People give hitboxes more respect than they should.
The moon dash slide takes advantage of if they feel like sitting in their shield because they're scared of what you might do. It may take advantage of laggy attacks with the slide, but most people don't use attacks that lag like that.
Most people play Brawl by just jumping around and throwing out attacks. I'm not assuming that's you, it's just my experience. I've realized that this kind of playing is really limiting and it pressured me more than simply walking back and forth while only approaching with the right attack from the right angle when I predict something. If people can see someone else throwing out attacks shamelessly, then this might be a nice way to punish them; however it's in the beginning stages of its life(if it has one) so who knows.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think this dash-delay can be baited too. If I am never approaching, just zoning and spacing, very few attacks will reach me. I am marth or MK right now
So I run sh, fair, di back, fair, if you thought that I was going to continue my momentum, you would have try to dash delay and tilt or smash attack or w/e, and now your are at a neutral position once again.
So I run sh, fair, di back, fair, if you thought that I was going to continue my momentum, you would have try to dash delay and tilt or smash attack or w/e, and now your are at a neutral position once again.
That's the point. The dash delay allows you to possibly get an advantageous position on the with a punish and if spaced right, the worst that can come out of it is a neutral position. There's minimal risk for the reward.I think this dash-delay can be baited too. If I am never approaching, just zoning and spacing, very few attacks will reach me. I am marth or MK right now
So I run sh, fair, di back, fair, if you thought that I was going to continue my momentum, you would have try to dash delay and tilt or smash attack or w/e, and now your are at a neutral position once again.
I'm not comparing it to a wavedash(because it's nowhere near as useful as it), but it's the same thing with running in and wavedashing back in Melee. If they don't throw out their attack, then you can just not attack and it's at a neutral position again, but if they do, you win and get a hit on them.
The only downfall of the dash delay is a possible trip, but it would be a trip away from them. It would give you time to recover from tripping.
It also makes the person throwing out attacks more aggressive because they keep missing, imo. It's a subconscious thing.
If you're fighting with Marth, dash delay to pivot grab is amazing. In my video it also looked like the Fsmash tipped relatively close to the Marth. With MK, dash delay to side B or Fsmash could work. The side B covers a lot of distance pretty fast for MK. You can also Up B out of it if you don't think it's spaced right as an escape move(invuln frames are nice), but you need tap jump on. Then again, I haven't really tested out MK's dash delay. Marth's hardly goes anywhere if done right, but he leans down and back, which is enough to dodge most shield-grab-spaced attacks.
Now that I think about it. Everyone should be able to do a B-move canceled jump(Marth's down B out of a jump, MK's neutral B)
With the situation of zoning and spacing, this could work with characters that have moves that cover distances relatively fast. The purpose of the dash delay is to be able to punish approaches with minimal risk for the reward. It's not really meant for getting through someone's spacing. The moon dash after effect is to just help the dash delay cover distance in order to punish the approach, but I don't think it's necessary if it's done right.
Palpi
Smash Hero
The worst that can come from walking up to the spot where your retreating dash cancel would lead to is Neutral. You are just making it harder for yourself or exploiting a weaker opponent.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
At first I thought you found a way to replicate Melee "Moon walking", that would've been cool.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
You can jump at any time.
At no point are you limited to the ground.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
lol come on people at least savior found that this exists
cut him some slack
cut him some slack
If the worst possible situation of a technique doesn't get you hit and doesn't put you at a bad position, why would anyone not use it?
This..sucks :/
This almost sucks as much as my 'Nair->DA combo' for falcon back in the day :/
Almost. :embarrass
Edit: Tommy G, keep it clean. This is a discussion. So no need to verbally attack people who have another opinion about/view on this topic.
This almost sucks as much as my 'Nair->DA combo' for falcon back in the day :/
Almost. :embarrass
Edit: Tommy G, keep it clean. This is a discussion. So no need to verbally attack people who have another opinion about/view on this topic.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I am saying that walking up to your opponent works just as well, it just looks less cool.
Walking up to someone isn't going to make them use an attack to barely miss you. The dash delay is to space an attack, then counter with either the moon dash slide or something out of the dash delay.I am saying that walking up to your opponent works just as well, it just looks less cool.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Someone just get a video of them using it effectively against a real opponent already.
Too much theory crafting.
Too much theory crafting.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
I don't have the ability to do that right now + this is test week. -_-