NEW AND IMPROVED MARIO MATCHUP THREAD

[deadjames]

That's what falco wants you to do. You and a lot of others like to think mario is much better than he actually is, due to a lack of solid experience. Playing those local no names just isn't enough in same cases. But that's besides the point.

Jumping over a laser so you can pick an option that is out prioritized by whatever he does, is what he wants.
Falco>mario on FD
Lasers controll the game and when you get close, lasergrab, nair, dair and shine> all of Mario's options.
Possiably even on a lot of other stages, especially the ones that allow you to maneuver around lasers. ie, platform(s).
Mario does not win on FD.
Nether he or doc won it in melee and this game is no different.

I don't see where you're drawing any of those conclusions from, I never said what my opinion is on how good of a character Mario is, but while we're on the subject I definitely think he's high tier, and I mean I've played darkrain a few times and Strong Bad pretty often, they aren't exactly what I'd call no names and they both have really solid Falcos. Also the Falco/Doc MU is even in Melee according to Dogysamich and I'm inclined to agree with him based on his arguments and my own personal experience. In PM Mario got better and Falco stayed relatively the same, but I still think the MU is even. There's isn't much Falco can do about fireballs when they're used to punish lasers, and lasergrab can be dealt with by simply not standing still after getting hit by, or shielding the laser, and yes this game is different, Mario's fireballs have significantly less endlag in PM which is what gives him the ability to punish lasers with them, if Falco tries to jump at you with an aerial you can just waveland away, unlike most characters Falco barely beats Mario in neutral, and once Mario gets a grab on FD, Falco should be dead. That said I don't think FD is the best stage for the MU, but I'd much rather go there than say Yoshi's, FoD, Warioware, or PS1.

 

[GeZ]

I like the info from DeadJames, I just wish we could all share equally right now, as we're getting a kind of Czar of the Mario Boards effect with a few players bullying specific parts of the boards. You guys are all great posters, but "agree to disagree" is a much better than "callin you out".

I think ez and deadjames both have experience with the character, and should be fine with maybe having contradictory opinions on a matchup. Or if that's unbearable, then hash it out a bit more civilly on both ends. It'd do my little heart good.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Having a lot of contradictory thoughts and opinions, hurt and confuse the reader. Having different opinions, options and thoughts posted for all is fine, but contradictions are bad for anyone trying to learn. As a new player, you won't know what to believe, what's right or what's wrong. One guy says, don't do it, the other says do it. Who do you believe? They are the only choices. For this topic, concerning Mario vs Falco on FD, I'd like the other knowledge Mario's to state their opinions on the matter. I have personally played a few notable falco's on FD, one would be m2k, I've also played a few others, but I feel, the MU goes up by a notable margin , when played on that stage.

What do you think @ GeZ @ Scatz @ Mr.Random Mr.M(won't let me tag'em for some reason)
There are probably some others, I just forgot at the moment .-.
This will basically put out a general feel, for what we think the MU is like on the stage. So readers can have a better understand, as to why it is, what it is. Having only two opinions that contradict each other is troublesome for anyone trying to make sense of this.

 

[deadjames]

I mean I'm not drastically contradicting you, I'm just saying I think there are worse stages to fight Falco on than FD. I'd never CP him there, but it wouldn't be my priority when it comes to bans either.

 

[GeZ]

I don't have enough personal experience (without getting dunked on) to comment, as the only Falco in my town is the best player we have by a huge margin. But I think a poll is a good idea.

 

[Scatz]

Not enough experience to give a full take, but I think the matchup didn't change much. The ability to PS lasers is crucial though for flat stages like FD. If you can't get a consistent manner, then FD can become hellish when trying to close Falco's options down.

 

[theONEjanitor]

matchups I don't understand - Charizard: this character has massive range, massive priority. seems like all he has to do is wait for you to do anything and then just outprioritize you with whatever move he wants. he also destroys mario on the ground and in the air because mario has no range and charizards range on literally all his moves is ridiculous.
also Ivysaur. Again, ivy massively outranges us, and really never has any reason to approach us. retreating bair covers just about anything, and she's also impossible to edgeguard.
also Sonic. i don't even know if this matchup is possible without ridiculously hard reads. mario is not a character suited for catching someone that fast.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Against sonic, use fireballs whenever he his at mid range or further. Your nair and bair destroy his approach options and CC dsmash destroys him. Nair his homing atks when he tries to recover or bair them. For zard, you have extra good combos on him. His moves are pretty laggy, so keep that in mind. He also doesn't have a way to rid himself of fireballs. Nair>dsmash, jab>grab/dsmash/uair, dair, uair and fireball approaches will work well against him. Making him whiff will always be a free punish for you.

I don't know much on the ivy MU.

 

[Lukingordex]

I'm trying to pick Mario as a second character, I would like to know if he does well against Link.

 

[deadjames]

Against sonic, use fireballs whenever he his at mid range or further. Your nair and bair destroy his approach options and CC dsmash destroys him. Nair his homing atks when he tries to recover or bair them. For zard, you have extra good combos on him. His moves are pretty laggy, so keep that in mind. He also doesn't have a way to rid himself of fireballs. Nair>dsmash, jab>grab/dsmash/uair, dair, uair and fireball approaches will work well against him. Making him whiff will always be a free punish for you.

I don't know much on the ivy MU.

Sonic can punish fireballs with homing attack from mid range, and pretty much all Zard's aerials beat fireballs, and his normals clank with them actually.

I'm trying to pick Mario as a second character, I would like to know if he does well against Link.

Yes.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm trying to pick Mario as a second character, I would like to know if he does well against Link.

He does well. He has a chain grab as well.

 

[xTTx]

Anyone know how the matchup goes against G&W and against Zelda?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Anyone know how the matchup goes against G&W and against Zelda?

Just bait zelda. She is really laggy. idk about G&W

 

[Lukingordex]

hm... could I get a video or some more info about this Chain Grab?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

hm... could I get a video or some more info about this Chain Grab?

Look at the thread about cg.

 

[deadjames]

Anyone know how the matchup goes against G&W and against Zelda?

Mario beats both of those characters, if you have specific questions I can try my best to answer them, asking a vague question like "how does the MU go?" won't get you much help.

 

[d-man2292]

mario against peach! i need to beat this freakin peach! help por favor

 

[deadjames]

Again give me specific questions and I will help you as best I can. Peach is a tough MU for Mario, but it's not unwinnable, if you can give me some idea of what your struggling with I can tell you how to deal with it.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Guess I haven't played a good enough zard. The zard I play is mediocre at best. I did play a good one a while back, but idr how he handle the fireballs.

That range with the fireballs tho, for sonic, is the safer of the options, if you chose to fireball. Any closer than mid and you prob won't be able to react and sonic should and would be able to punish. Also, sonic isn't very good on stages with platforms, this coming from wizzrobe. I'd say go to bf, yoshi's or some place with the triple platform setup.

 

[d-man2292]

Again give me specific questions and I will help you as best I can. Peach is a tough MU for Mario, but it's not unwinnable, if you can give me some idea of what your struggling with I can tell you how to deal with it.

well my friend is really good with peach, the thing is i feel like her recovery is ridiculous, she doesnt stay hit stunned for long and also when she is going off the stage she just floats back like no sweat, i mean i could read my opponent a little better but peach is just so unpredictable, not only that but her down smash is flat out stupid!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Don't hold down, like ever. Play smart, don't be scared to nair her, while she is off stage. I've only played a good peach once er twice. But that's pretty much won me the game. Well, that and better spacing.

 

[Lord Ike]

Mario has always been a meh character to me. He isn't the brightest person obviously because why wouldn't he choose Rosalina over Peach? I mean, Rosalina is the ruler of the galaxy. Wouldn't you want to be married to her instead?

 

[GeZ]

Mario has always been a meh character to me. He isn't the brightest person obviously because why wouldn't he choose Rosalina over Peach? I mean, Rosalina is the ruler of the galaxy. Wouldn't you want to be married to her instead?

You obviously haven't played the hentai games. Peach is a worldly woman, to put it lightly. I choose her any day.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You obviously haven't played the hentai games. Peach is a worldly woman, to put it lightly. I choose her any day.

I sure haven't
Lolz
Btw
I picked up IC. New tech has been discovered home slice.

 

[GeZ]

I sure haven't
Lolz
Btw
I picked up IC. New tech has been discovered home slice.

Pretty sweet. I tried IC's but they were too 20XX for me. I've been really gettin into Ganondorf though. Now it's hard to go back to other characters that aren't made of beautiful warlock. What did you find for IC's?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Pretty sweet. I tried IC's but they were too 20XX for me. I've been really gettin into Ganondorf though. Now it's hard to go back to other characters that aren't made of beautiful warlock. What did you find for IC's?

A few desyncs, and I'm getting that nana control real well. Dthrows, hand offs, DA works.

 

[GeZ]

Love that stuff. Did you ever see that weird glitch I found a while ago, the Nanaport? It didn't have a lot of utility unless you could see frames like M2K but interesting nonetheless.

 

[deadjames]

well my friend is really good with peach, the thing is i feel like her recovery is ridiculous, she doesnt stay hit stunned for long and also when she is going off the stage she just floats back like no sweat, i mean i could read my opponent a little better but peach is just so unpredictable, not only that but her down smash is flat out stupid!

I mean that still doesn't really give me much to help you with, yes Peach has a good recovery, but that doesn't directly correlate to why Mario struggles against her. As for the hitstun you just have to accept that you aren't going to get long combos against Peach, after two or three hits your combo is complete, if you try to extend it you're going to eat a reversal option, and like ez. said don't try to CC dsmash. Next time your friend beats you, ask him what was easy about the fight and use that as a basis for improvement on the MU.

Don't hold down, like ever. Play smart, don't be scared to nair her, while she is off stage. I've only played a good peach once er twice. But that's pretty much won me the game. Well, that and better spacing.

Bair is usually a better option than nair since it's disjointed. A good Peach will be ready to intercept you with a preemptive fair when she's floating near the stage, and it will beat Mario's nair.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Love that stuff. Did you ever see that weird glitch I found a while ago, the Nanaport? It didn't have a lot of utility unless you could see frames like M2K but interesting nonetheless.

Yea, I just didn't mess with it. I'll go mad scientist on it later today, see what I can do.

 

[TFerg]

Against snake:

Is it better to play aggressive or zone with fireball?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Against snake:

Is it better to play aggressive or zone with fireball?

Aggressive.
You do have to respect his shield tho. He can up b and combo from it, if you aren't careful. The first 4 frames are intangible and he can act on the 5th frame.

 

[TFerg]

Aggressive.
You do have to respect his shield tho. He can up b and combo from it, if you aren't careful. The first 4 frames are intangible and he can act on the 5th frame.

Thanks for the reply.

Also, I've seen it mentioned that Mario does well against Link. I've noticed that I tend to beat Links but I also don't really know exactly why this is. Are there certain aspects of the matchup that I should be focusing on to get the edge?

 

[deadjames]

Aggressive.
You do have to respect his shield tho. He can up b and combo from it, if you aren't careful. The first 4 frames are intangible and he can act on the 5th frame.

I'd tend to disagree, there's no good reason to approach Snake, his defensive options will wreck you, especially if he has port, then you can't even grab him safely or you'll get blown up. That being said his approach options are mediocre and he has literally no good answer to fireballs, so you should make him come to you imo.

Thanks for the reply.

Also, I've seen it mentioned that Mario does well against Link. I've noticed that I tend to beat Links but I also don't really know exactly why this is. Are there certain aspects of the matchup that I should be focusing on to get the edge?

Link is extremely slow and has poor OoS options, this makes him very susceptible to rush downs, Mario's fireballs are better than all of Link's projectiles imo, and Mario's nair can eat 'rang. These are all things to keep in mind in the Link MU.

 

[Mr.Random]

Guys analysis time. Wario match up this time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suFABY-3xjg
What did Boss do right/wrong?

 

[AthleticNerd93]

What are top 5 matchups to take out Mario? I have trouble against him and do not know what characters he fairs poorly against

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What are top 5 matchups to take out Mario? I have trouble against him and do not know what characters he fairs poorly against

Use Marth or m2

 

[Mr.Random]

Guys analysis time. Wario match up this time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suFABY-3xjg
What did Boss do right/wrong? Cmon guys :3

 

[deadjames]

What are top 5 matchups to take out Mario? I have trouble against him and do not know what characters he fairs poorly against

In order from hardest to easiest Mario's five worst MUs imo are Mewtwo, Marth, Fox, Peach, and Sheik.

 

[TFerg]

In order from hardest to easiest Mario's five worst MUs imo are Mewtwo, Marth, Fox, Peach, and Sheik.

Ok, I thought I was crazy for thinking these were tough. Good to know.

Are there any that you think an outright character switch might be needed? Like Marth/Mewtwo?

 

[deadjames]

Both of those, personally I like to use Link against Marth and Luigi against Mewtwo.