NEW AND IMPROVED MARIO MATCHUP THREAD

[erasmorpheous]

I've had that same experience trying to cc Lucario. They just keep slapping me before I can do anything. CC jab combo might work though.

If they're comboing you on the ground DI down and away. Lucario can do some super cool super scary stuff against bad DI. Also, Mario has a slight chain grab on him so that helps out. This matchup seems to me to be in Mario's favor.

 

[cod3kill]

I've had that same experience trying to cc Lucario. They just keep slapping me before I can do anything. CC jab combo might work though.

Maybe the Lucario player I've played is just worse than the one you guys have played.

 

[Jacob29]

Do you guys still think Bowser is 55:45?

 

[KinGly]

Do you guys still think Bowser is 55:45?

I'd say it's about 65:35 mario, but that's just from analysis of others playing the matchup. Mario's got a super easy chain grab and fireballs are so easy to use cause of bowsers slowness and size

 

[deadjames]

Mario vs Bowser is 70:30 Mario imo, go a few pages back to see why I think that.

 

[erasmorpheous]

Two things on my mind during bowser fights a lot of the time:

1. Be wary of him up B-ing to beat out my approaches
2. Grab him!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Got to be wary about his ledge attack as well.

 

[MANZilla]

As a wolf main, I wanna say the matchup is in Mario's favor. Id like to say 55-45 but i refuse to believe it can be any more than 6-4.

im more than annoyed by Mario's ability to fill the screen with fireballs and convert into big damage or at least crazy good stage position. I like to use laser set ups and shield pressure (nair shine, dair shine)... but im having trouble with the neutral game.

Mario's fireball is very good, travels at a great speed. does great damage, and deals enough hitstun to let players do just about anything else. The angle that it travels controls a lot of space. If a wolf is silly enough to try and reflector the fireballs, you can punish him in his "reflector lag". Wolf cant easily weave in and out of danger like a Fox or shiek can.

Wolf's laser is amazing though. its slow, but does GREAT hitstun so it gives the player false options, that they tend to pick right away. Shield, move away, throw fireballs back (they colide), etc. but it makes the opponent either **** or get off the pot. However, it still doesnt give as much advantage as fireballs, but shouldnt be taken lightly if a wolf is wavelanding his lasers.

Mario is floaty, and that is ANNOYING. if ur being combo'd you can just throw out a nair and it'll probably hit. Even better, Wolf is a spacie so you can up throw him and combo him as much as you please. Wolf IS a bit heavier than Fox and Falco, so keep that in mind. If you slip and lend him a couple frames you'll get shined, and depending on your damage you can get confirmed into a wolf flash set up.

Theoritically speaking, Mario can Usmash (or up b) OoS if theres holes in wolf's shield pressure, WHICH THERE IS USUALLY because unless he's multishining you for ten seconds straight or doesnt drop a single nair shine, you'll have a little air to breath.

I think Good stages for wolf are bigger stages in this MU, where he has room to move around all mario's fireballs. I like Dreamland64, Smashville, Yoshi's Brawl a lot. I can manage on FD and Yoshis story. I'd rather Stadium 2 than battlefield. Mario has Jesus levels of recovery though so Id strike Warioware, GHZ, FoD, any small stages with walls for UpB jumping and high ceilings.

thats my humble opinion. hopefully we can discuss something off of this to help me and others understand this matchup more. Im starting to pick up a pocket mario for dittos, but its not nearly as rewarding. Thanks for reading

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm thinking Mario's weight is good for wolf, If I remember correctly. That being based off of chillin vs boss, granted, I haven't watched those in a while.
I don't have any wolf players in my state, I play wolf myself, but there aren't many Mario's that are any good here. Best thing to do for now, look for like, chillin vs boss or something.

 

[dEllis]

I'd say Mario vs Wolf is around 60:40 in Mario's favor. They're pretty even in the neutral and they combo each other hard, although I'd say Wolf definitely combos Mario harder than Mario can combo Wolf. The thing that really gives Mario the edge is that he edgeguards Wolf ridiculously well, to the point where Wolf offstage where he can't double jump air dodge back is essentially dead.

 

[Hobs_]

Why isn't the OP being updated? I came in here looking for matchup advice and got nothing.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Why isn't the OP being updated? I came in here looking for matchup advice and got nothing.

Not many write ups being done. It won't hurt to scan the posts here. If we haven't talked about W/E you need help on, ASK.

 

[meeeeeeeepo]

Anybody have any tips for Toon Link? Just got knocked out of a tourney by him and it really infuriated me. I honestly couldn't do anything to him really. Map was Final Destination if that makes any difference. He abused bombs and overall just crushed me.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Don't let characters with more projectiles take you to FD
All I know.
Oh, we got a cg on him. Yea, I need to learn that MU myself.

 

[meeeeeeeepo]

Don't let characters with more projectiles take you to FD
All I know.
Oh, we got a cg on him. Yea, I need to learn that MU myself.

Yeah I made a mistake letting him take FD. He also really abused uair and I found it really hard to punish him.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

Could someone give me some advice on the Mario Yoshi match-up, I don't want to pick Wolf into this and I've tried so many characters for a Yoshi counter, but I feel way more comfortable with Mario.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Could someone give me some advice on the Mario Yoshi match-up, I don't want to pick Wolf into this and I've tried so many characters for a Yoshi counter, but I feel way more comfortable with Mario.

Fireballs
Use them
Don't go to small stages
Don't be afraid to camp
He's combo food

 

[deadjames]

He's combo food

False, Yoshi can DJC nair out of combos if you commit too hard, you can generally only get two to three hit combos on Yoshi, but you can bait out his combo breaker option and punish it.

 

[KinGly]

Guys, we need to undead this thread.

How's the mario link MU? I've heard Mario fairs poorly against anyone with a sword, but link seems so slow that he'd be a lot easier than Marhh/Roy, just from pure speculation I'd estimate 55-45 Links favor. Any thoughts?

Also, does Falcon beat Mario as bad as it feels like he does, or is it just that Falcon beats me? The MU seriously feels 60-40 falcon.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Guys, we need to undead this thread.

How's the mario link MU? I've heard Mario fairs poorly against anyone with a sword, but link seems so slow that he'd be a lot easier than Marhh/Roy, just from pure speculation I'd estimate 55-45 Links favor. Any thoughts?

Also, does Falcon beat Mario as bad as it feels like he does, or is it just that Falcon beats me? The MU seriously feels 60-40 falcon.

Link v mario is pretty even. We have a CG on him and he has a busted side B. I'd give mario the slight edge because of that and one or two other things.
Falcon is hard. Not like Marth hard, but he's hard.

 

[KinGly]

S

Link v mario is pretty even. We have a CG on him and he has a busted side B. I'd give mario the slight edge because of that and one or two other things.
Falcon is hard. Not like Marth hard, but he's hard.

Secondary hard? I've picked up D3 cause I'm naturally pretty good at him for some reason and he seems to go even or better with marth. I think D3 could also have an even MU with Falcon.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

S

Secondary hard? I've picked up D3 cause I'm naturally pretty good at him for some reason and he seems to go even or better with marth. I think D3 could also have an even MU with Falcon.

I mean, if you have a secondary that's solid, and they can handle things your main can't, I would use them for those troublesum MU.

Anyone got knowledge on the diddy MU? No idea on what kinda mindset or stage I should pick as mario. I can handle it as MK, but I'm curious.

 

[KinGly]

I mean, if you have a secondary that's solid, and they can handle things your main can't, I would use them for those troublesum MU.

Anyone got knowledge on the diddy MU? No idea on what kinda mindset or stage I should pick as mario. I can handle it as MK, but I'm curious.

As far as stages go I would think we would benefit from smaller stages, such as yoshis, warioware, and GHZ, because Diddy wouldn't have as much time to set up. I've only played it once against a lower level diddy player, but I feel like Mario benefits by rushing him down and fireball spamming to keep Diddy from setting up his camp game.

 

[deadjames]

Guys, we need to undead this thread.

How's the mario link MU? I've heard Mario fairs poorly against anyone with a sword, but link seems so slow that he'd be a lot easier than Marhh/Roy, just from pure speculation I'd estimate 55-45 Links favor. Any thoughts?

Also, does Falcon beat Mario as bad as it feels like he does, or is it just that Falcon beats me? The MU seriously feels 60-40 falcon.

Mario destroys Link imo, it's at least 60-40 Mario, possibly better, just rush him down there's not really much he can do about it since nair will eat 'rang, you can even outcamp him, fireballs are better than all of Link's projectiles. His disjoints aren't even that big of a deal, usually being above characters with swords is hell for Mario, but dair will beat Link's utilt and usmash, still have to watch out for uair though. As for Falcon it's kinda tough I'd say it's closer to 55-45 Falcon, Falcon can punish you really hard for overcommitting to anything, his aerials outrange and outprioritize Mario's, and trades are usually in his favor. Just make sure your defense is on point and convert every edge-guard opportunity into a kill, an offstage Falcon should always be a dead Falcon, you can usually gimp him with bair, but if he uses side-b opt for cape instead because it's less risky if you don't space bair perfectly you will get meteor'd, also make sure to DI down and away from his combos.

 

[Jonyc128]

How do you guys deal with Falco sheild and laser pressure? I have Porkchops in my region, and I feel like I need to get better against shield pressure if I ever want to have a chance at beating him.

 

[deadjames]

Best options against shield pressure are either roll away or usmash oos when you notice a gap in his pressure because it has some invincibility frames, as for lasers if you're on a stage with platforms just sit up there and throw fireballs at him if he tries to full hop laser just drop down eventually he'll have to come in because Mario can outcamp him on mid-sized to large stages with platforms, if you're on a stage in which you can't do that you better get good at caping/powershielding them.

 

[SpiderJerusalem]

Any advice on the Fox matchup? Gonna be squaring off against a strong Fox player in my club tomorrow for a Ladder match

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Best options against shield pressure are either roll away or usmash oos when you notice a gap in his pressure because it has some invincibility frames, as for lasers if you're on a stage with platforms just sit up there and throw fireballs at him if he tries to full hop laser just drop down eventually he'll have to come in because Mario can outcamp him on mid-sized to large stages with platforms, if you're on a stage in which you can't do that you better get good at caping/powershielding them.

They removed those frames in 3.2
Sheild dropping is also an option. You can throw some aerails out with it from time to time as well.

Any advice on the Fox matchup? Gonna be squaring off against a strong Fox player in my club tomorrow for a Ladder match

Learn the chain grab. When it ends fox is a few stray hits from death. Don't get dumb with fireballs since fox can Nair/bair them and hit U at the same time. Don't pick small stages and don't go to stages with low ceilings if you can help it. If he is good never try to grab him during sheild pressure. Just roll, spot dodge, jump, or sheild drop then look for something.

 

[deadjames]

They removed those frames in 3.2

False

 

[DMG]

I don't think it was 3.02. Maybe 3.0 had that change, but regardless it definitely happened.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

False

I don't think it was 3.02. Maybe 3.0 had that change, but regardless it definitely happened.

#rekt

 

[deadjames]

3.0 changelog for Mario: - Forward Smash hitlag modifier has been reduced slightly to be normalized

#rekt

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

3.0 changelog for Mario: - Forward Smash hitlag modifier has been reduced slightly to be normalized

#rekt

I said 3.2
Stay on the side of the road #rekt

 

[DMG]

???

I uh, thought we were talking bout Fox's Shine Invincibility. Almost everybody knows that was removed. If you guys aren't talking about that, I'm leaving

 

[deadjames]

I said 3.2
Stay on the side of the road #rekt

Nothing was changed about him in 3.02.

???

I uh, thought we were talking bout Fox's Shine Invincibility. Almost everybody knows that was removed. If you guys aren't talking about that, I'm leaving

No, we're talking about the invincibility frames on Mario's up smash.

 

[DMG]

Ew

That's disgusting

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Let me just open debugode
I still summon @Strong Bad
I just checked debug
It isnt there. Just like I said, BAKA.

 

[deadjames]

That's hard to believe that they would change something like that, especially since Luigi still has it.

 

[TTTTTsd]

With the changes in 3.5 coming to light, Marth got a ton worse, he's the most notable new bad MU off the top of my hand that I might recommend switching characters for if you're not comfortable with too uphill of a battle.

I can't think of anyone else that would give Mario too much trouble still, even after the nerfs. Marth is definitely the most notable one, but if anyone has any others to contribute I'd love to hear about it. It's important we pin down the more difficult ones.

 

[deadjames]

Mewtwo is probably still his hardest MU. Fox and Sheik are going to be harder now since you can't camp them, Peach and Falcon still have slight advantages, but any Mario worth their salt should be able to handle them. I think he loses to Ganon, Luigi, and Pit now.