NEW AND IMPROVED MARIO MATCHUP THREAD

[Mr.Random]

All right so I though of a neat layout that would make looking for advice on match ups easier. I'm going to need your help though guys.
So this is what the layout will be like.
Neutral Game:
Punish Game:
Edgeguarding:
How to recover against them:
Moves we can crouch cancel:
What NOT to do:
I'm going to need help for each matchup so let's get started in that order.

1. Bowser
   Spoiler

   55:45 Mario or even depending on stages
   Neutral Game: Bowser out-ranges us so what he is going to be doing usually is spacing his aerials against us, so dash dancing outside his range is the key to our success. Bait out one of Bowser's laggy moves. Also use fireballs a good distance because he can fair right through and punish you. You can camp him out on bigger stages but on small stages you need to be cautious. If he corners you, you can camp on the ledge if you have the lead until he does something stupid then ledge dash and punish.
   Punish Game: Grab punishes are important, you can chain grab, get a free 50+%, and start a long string. Watch out for his nair which is a great combo breaker, bait it out if you can and get another grab. You want to kill him with Fsmash or Fair which you can combo into easily with down throw or up air.
   Edgeguarding: Edgeguarding Bowser is a piece of cake. He can only recover high or sweet spot. While his Up B does have a good hitbox you can use the cape to refresh your invincibility and bair him to oblivion. If he recovers high then ledge jump cape and he should be gone. Take advantage off this to get early kills.
   How to recover against them: A good Bowser is not easy to recover against. When recovering above you want to throw fireballs to keep him busy . Watch out jump canceled Bowser bombs because he will try to fair you and his down b has armor. When recovering from below you need to sweetspot since his down b has armor and you can't up b through. If you can try to wall jump ledge dash or air dodge on stage to avoid his bair or get up attack.
   Moves we can crouch cancel: We can CC his jab and get a grab, or his f-tilt to get a d-smash.
   What NOT to do: Do not rush Bowser or challenge his range. His Up B out of his shield is fantastic as well as his armor which he can use to grab you if you try to dair at low%. He has great range so he will swat you away or put you in a terrible situation if you are on a platform. Ban small stages. Medium and Big are good for this MU.
2. Captain Falcon
3. Charizard
4. Diddy Kong
5. Donkey Kong
6. Falco
7. Fox
8. Game & Watch
9. Ganondorf
10. Ice Climbers
11. Ike
12. Ivysaur
13. Jigglypuff
14. King Dedede
15. Kirby
16. Link
17. Lucario
18. Lucas
19. Luigi
20. Mario: Mirror
21. Marth
    Spoiler

    I feel this MU is the lowest, in terms of numbers for our hero. Rolling in at 65:35 Marth's favor. His hits my seem simple, but they get a lot of mileage and getting in as Mario, multiple times, is very hard.
    
    Stages to ban vs Marth: GHz (green hill zone) WW (warioware) and yoshi's story. The reason you always ban these stages, is because Marth can DESTROY YOU ON THIS STAGES. He has a bit of room to get the Di mix up chain grab, they are small, so once you hit like 60 er so, tippers can be GG or least send you far away. Marth can wait under the button two platforms and ether up tilt, maybe up smash? And for sure F smash tipper you if you land on one, so if you tech wrong or miss a tech, death can come early. It's basically a death trap for Mario.
    
    Neutral Game: Against Marth, I guess it depends what level you and that Marth are at to determine what works. If they aren't as good as you, and let's say you're a mid level player and they are a stater or a much weaker level player, you can spam fireballs. That player will not have much to do in response of your spam and they will slowly crumble. You'll be able to fireball from mid range, walk up and grab. Once you get them to know, or at least think, that they can not stop the fireballs, you've won. Keep doing crap after fireball.
    If you are playing someone around your level, and you're both mid level players, this is where and when the annoyance of Marth, comes to shine. Doing fireballs won't work on him. You'll have to rely on a heavy bait and punish game, using things like WD OoS as your core way to getting in. If he whiffs, you better take that and go home with it.
    
    Things Marth players like to do in Neatral: He has a lot of options and it's kinda like a, this move counters this, so when you do this, I use this. If you fireball, he fairs, if you try to short hop and throw a nair, he nairs, if you try to dair from above, well he can do stuff. At low precent, he is gonna be looking to ether counter your action to build(like with a move, not counter) % or he will go for the grab. With the grab, he has some Di mix ups. Di away will you get you out of the b throw for free, but set you up for the f throw regrab/follow ups. You can try Di up for F throw if there is a platform or towards if he wants to regrab. He can also just f smash and not even attempt to follow your Di and usually that's a tippered one.
    
    Punish Game: As I said, you will be playing around a lot of WD OoS. From there, grabs, jabs, and dsmash will do work. Bair and nair OoS can be good as well, bair being a little better because of the range. DD to make him whiff will also be very important.
    
    Edgeguarding: This can hard, even with his limited options. You can try fireballing him so that he could mess up his sweet spot. You could try tossing a fireball on a platform like if you full hop on bf, and fireball with your hand just barely above a platform. That can stop some high recoveries. You can try just RAR bairing him, even if it trades with his up B, Mario always gives Marth that GameStop trade. Marth's only stall option is dancing blade, so if he uses it, try your best to do something about it. If you can predict it off stage, a nair can end him. If you can hit'em, just make him land on the stage with his laggy up B and smash'em for his troubles.
    
    How to recover against them: This can be tricky because, a good bair from Marth, after you used both down b and side b is death. If your coming from above, try to fireball, maybe dair, air dodge, get to a platform. I said dair, but you usually don't do crap when trying to come down on Marth. You just wanna hurry up and get on the main platform. Try not to use down b close to the stage. One thing Marth can do, is drop weave a bit, tipper bair and then he can still recover. So even low recoveries can be stuffed, if you aren't careful. When you up B wall jump, try bairing after the walk jump, it'll cover you in case Marth wants to act silly.
    
    Moves we can crouch cancel: Anything not tipped.
    
    What NOT to do: Be Mario, go to yoshi's island, go to WW, go to GHz.
    Don't play passive, always attempt to pressure Marth. Even though you can't get in, that doesn't mean u can't do squat. Never sit still, always mix it up, don't b throw and except it to kill anytime before like 140. Domt up throw. Don't drop combos. Don't take any risks, don't get frustrated, this MU for Mario is a battle of wits. You're just fishing the whole game, praying, baiting and punishing, sprinkle in some aggression and that's the MU on Mario's said.
    
    This is a MU that I for sure, advise a character switch.
22. Meta Knight
23. Mewtwo
24. Ness
25. Olimar
26. Peach
27. Pikachu
28. Pit
29. R.O.B.
30. Roy
31. Samus
32. Sheik
33. Snake
34. Sonic
35. Squirtle
36. Toon Link
37. Wario
38. Wolf
39. Yoshi
40. Zelda
41. Zero Suit Samus

 

[Mr.Random]

I will actually be doing Bowser first. This is mainly from my experience.
55:45 Mario or even depending on stages
Neutral Game: Bowser out-ranges us so what he is going to be doing usually is spacing his aerials against us, so dash dancing outside his range is the key to our success. Bait out one of Bowser's laggy moves. Also use fireballs a good distance because he can fair right through and punish you. You can camp him out on bigger stages but on small stages you need to be cautious. If he corners you, you can camp on the ledge if you have the lead until he does something stupid then ledge dash and punish.
Punish Game: Grab punishes are important, you can chain grab, get a free 50+%, and start a long string. Watch out for his nair which is a great combo breaker, bait it out if you can and get another grab. You want to kill him with Fsmash or Fair which you can combo into easily with down throw or up air.
Edgeguarding: Edgeguarding Bowser is a piece of cake. He can only recover high or sweet spot. While his Up B does have a good hitbox you can use the cape to refresh your invincibility and bair him to oblivion. If he recovers high then ledge jump cape and he should be gone. Take advantage off this to get early kills.
How to recover against them: A good Bowser is not easy to recover against. When recovering above you want to throw fireballs to keep him busy . Watch out jump canceled Bowser bombs because he will try to fair you and his down b has armor. When recovering from below you need to sweetspot since his down b has armor and you can't up b through. If you can try to wall jump ledge dash or air dodge on stage to avoid his bair or get up attack.
Moves we can crouch cancel: We can CC his jab and get a grab, or his f-tilt to get a d-smash.
What NOT to do: Do not rush Bowser or challenge his range. His Up B out of his shield is fantastic as well as his armor which he can use to grab you if you try to dair at low%. He has great range so he will swat you away or put you in a terrible situation if you are on a platform. Ban small stages. Medium and Big are good for this MU.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Watch out for bowsers ledge atk as well. I think the MU is 55:45 or more for us. We have it a lot easier than bowser.

I'll do some for some characters tomorrow.

 

[Mr.Random]

Watch out for bowsers ledge atk as well. I think the MU is 55:45 or more for us. We have it a lot easier.

I'll do some for some characters tomorrow.

Next I'll be doing Captain Falcon. Any characters you'll do?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Next I'll be doing Captain Falcon. Any characters you'll do?

I'll do Marth, followed by Lucas. I'll probably do more in the future.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Marth

This is possibly, Mario's worst MU. Here is a few reason's way.
1) He has a sword( swords = disjoint) and mario has always had a problem with swords and disjoints.
2) He has a reliable way to deal with fireballs. That said, you have to play more so at Marth's pace. He can sh fair/ double fair your fireballs for days, and it benefits him more than you. Because while you slowly weave back and forth doing fireballs, he is safely approaching.
3) All of his moves out range ours and to make things worse, all that range of his, is a big ol disjointed sword. His grab is also bigger and it never ends well for us.

These are just a few of the strengths Marth has over Mario.

I feel this MU is the lowest, in terms of numbers for our hero. Rolling in at 65:35 Marth's favor. His hits my seem simple, but they get a lot of mileage and getting in as Mario, multiple times, is very hard.

Stages to ban vs Marth: GHz (green hill zone) WW (warioware) and yoshi's story. The reason you always ban these stages, is because Marth can DESTROY YOU ON THIS STAGES. He has a bit of room to get the Di mix up chain grab, they are small, so once you hit like 60 er so, tippers can be GG or least send you far away. Marth can wait under the button two platforms and ether up tilt, maybe up smash? And for sure F smash tipper you if you land on one, so if you tech wrong or miss a tech, death can come early. It's basically a death trap for Mario.

Neutral Game: Against Marth, I guess it depends what level you and that Marth are at to determine what works. If they aren't as good as you, and let's say you're a mid level player and they are a stater or a much weaker level player, you can spam fireballs. That player will not have much to do in response of your spam and they will slowly crumble. You'll be able to fireball from mid range, walk up and grab. Once you get them to know, or at least think, that they can not stop the fireballs, you've won. Keep doing crap after fireball.
If you are playing someone around your level, and you're both mid level players, this is where and when the annoyance of Marth, comes to shine. Doing fireballs won't work on him. You'll have to rely on a heavy bait and punish game, using things like WD OoS as your core way to getting in. If he whiffs, you better take that and go home with it.

Things Marth players like to do in Neatral: He has a lot of options and it's kinda like a, this move counters this, so when you do this, I use this. If you fireball, he fairs, if you try to short hop and throw a nair, he nairs, if you try to dair from above, well he can do stuff. At low precent, he is gonna be looking to ether counter your action to build(like with a move, not counter) % or he will go for the grab. With the grab, he has some Di mix ups. Di away will you get you out of the b throw for free, but set you up for the f throw regrab/follow ups. You can try Di up for F throw if there is a platform or towards if he wants to regrab. He can also just f smash and not even attempt to follow your Di and usually that's a tippered one.

Punish Game: As I said, you will be playing around a lot of WD OoS. From there, grabs, jabs, and dsmash will do work. Bair and nair OoS can be good as well, bair being a little better because of the range. DD to make him whiff will also be very important.

Edgeguarding: This can hard, even with his limited options. You can try fireballing him so that he could mess up his sweet spot. You could try tossing a fireball on a platform like if you full hop on bf, and fireball with your hand just barely above a platform. That can stop some high recoveries. You can try just RAR bairing him, even if it trades with his up B, Mario always gives Marth that GameStop trade. Marth's only stall option is dancing blade, so if he uses it, try your best to do something about it. If you can predict it off stage, a nair can end him. If you can hit'em, just make him land on the stage with his laggy up B and smash'em for his troubles.

How to recover against them: This can be tricky because, a good bair from Marth, after you used both down b and side b is death. If your coming from above, try to fireball, maybe dair, air dodge, get to a platform. I said dair, but you usually don't do crap when trying to come down on Marth. You just wanna hurry up and get on the main platform. Try not to use down b close to the stage. One thing Marth can do, is drop weave a bit, tipper bair and then he can still recover. So even low recoveries can be stuffed, if you aren't careful. When you up B wall jump, try bairing after the walk jump, it'll cover you in case Marth wants to act silly.

Moves we can crouch cancel: Anything not tipped.

What NOT to do: Be Mario, go to yoshi's island, go to WW, go to GHz.
Don't play passive, always attempt to pressure Marth. Even though you can't get in, that doesn't mean u can't do squat. Never sit still, always mix it up, don't b throw and except it to kill anytime before like 140. Domt up throw. Don't drop combos. Don't take any risks, don't get frustrated, this MU for Mario is a battle of wits. You're just fishing the whole game, praying, baiting and punishing, sprinkle in some aggression and that's the MU on Mario's said.

This is a MU that I for sure, advise a character switch.

 

[The Master of Mario]

I don't think marth is so bad right now i think toon link is a worse matchup. Mario has been shrinking since brawl was released (he used to be the same size as falco). Marth is very floaty so he'll be SHopping a lot but unlike TL he doesn't have as much air speed think JIGGS so he has just he'll have to run->jump to get any movement which makes him weak to rolls in the opposite direction he has to commit to his F-air. After roll he'll probably shield any counter attack which you can n-air-B-air or N-air->Dash Grab. If your far from marth F-air is safe otherwise you want to take advantage of the startup lag on his smashes with SHFFB-air(this requires doing b-air right before you hit the groundb it takes practice)->D-smash/Shield-Grab/UpB OOS. You have to run as well so if he jumps you have to be prepared to UpB OOS/Sheild Grab/UP-smash OOS/ROLL. Be sure to take advantage of smash DI for everything Attacking and Pressing R and you survive everything but tippers. Up-Smash KOS cause it's a tipper. If your on Yoshi story you can cause it to miss by altering mario's hit box with b-airs and offsetting fastfall. If marth's don't mess with your air dodge you can do that as well on other stages as well as up-special to higher platforms.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Can I actually report that guy for trolling? He keeps filling our section with BULL**** -_- for anyone who reads the mario boards, do not take the above poster seriously, at ****ing all. Guy is suppose to be a master, his title is apprentice and his posts r dumb as hell.

EDIT: @Chesstiger2612
Read the above post

 

[Mr.Random]

Marth.

Excellent post. I'm still gathering other Captain Falcon's opinions before I finish my Falcon post.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Swords clank with F-til/Dsmash/grabs if you can predict the timing. You can full jump approach-Blind-Uair around head(altering mario's hitbox)-FF->SH-Dair from infront Marth

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Excellent post. I'm still gathering other Captain Falcon's opinions before I finish my Falcon post.

Looking forward to that. If the MU is turns out to be even, figuertively speaking, we might get the edge on FD with the CG :D I don't have a lot of knowledge on the MU aside from whatever everyone seems to know haha. Maybe I'll beat Kman with some more information, next time I see him

 

[The Master of Mario]

"He has a reliable way to deal with fireballs. That said, you have to play more so at Marth's pace. He can sh fair/ double fair your fireballs for days, and it benefits him more than you. Because while you slowly weave back and forth doing fireballs, he is safely approaching."

Mario's Up-smash/D-smash got weaker from Melee after R cancel so KOing is a problem now F-smash can hit but it needs to be at the edge of the stage at 130%. Yoshi on the otherhand 110%.

 

[Mr.Random]

This is a MU that I for sure, advise a character switch.

I agree with this. A switch to Fox (who can dash dance better and punish harder, all you have to do is ban FD) or Sheik (needles annoy Marth and she edge guards and punishes hard). Any character switches you think would be good?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I agree with this. A switch to Fox (who can dash dance better and punish harder, all you have to do is ban FD) or Sheik (needles annoy Marth and she edge guards and punishes hard). Any character switches you think would be good?

Fox would work well, I think the same for falco and wolf as well. I don't know if sheik has all the same advantages she had in melee, but if she does, she has Marth weeping. Pit is great against him. He just goes in so hard, every hit has potential to lead to much more... I love it haha. falcon works to. That MU seems like it did in melee. Diddy is also great, his bananas just screws Marth game plan.

Swords clank with F-til/Dsmash/grabs if you can predict the timing.

First off, you said, a sword, a hitbox, can clank with a grab. Secondly, I have no idea why you mentioned clanking.

You can full jump approach-Blind-Uair around head(altering mario's hitbox)-FF->SH-Dair from infront Marth

That isn't an approach. That's called, "playing training mode." Guy really just said full hop-blind-uair. Are you ever gonna be done trolling?

"He has a reliable way to deal with fireballs. That said, you have to play more so at Marth's pace. He can sh fair/ double fair your fireballs for days, and it benefits him more than you. Because while you slowly weave back and forth doing fireballs, he is safely approaching."

Mario's Up-smash/D-smash got weaker from Melee after R cancel so KOing is a problem now F-smash can hit but it needs to be at the edge of the stage at 130%. Yoshi on the otherhand 110%.

No one even mentioned ANY smash attacks.

Ye
Get reported lmao

 

[The Master of Mario]

"He has a reliable way to deal with fireballs. That said, you have to play more so at Marth's pace. He can sh fair/ double fair your fireballs for days, and it benefits him more than you. Because while you slowly weave back and forth doing fireballs, he is safely approaching."

Mario's Up-smash/D-smash got weaker from Melee after R cancel so KOing is a problem now F-smash can hit but it needs to be at the edge of the stage at 130%. Yoshi on the otherhand 110%.

Brawl is currently a sweetspot lovers game but attacks go past range and through players game which means use N-air(low damage),F-air(slow),F-smash(slow),U-smash(no invincibility frames like melee or unlike doesn't clank with moves see fox's up-smash melee). Mario Doesn't have fast sweetspot moves N-air does too little damage to KO at %160+ with DI from center of stage. 8-9% means you have to hit ~20 times. The second problem is sweetspots don't lead into other attacks only secondary hitboxes except D-air which leads to edgegaurding. Basically unlike Melee where Mario could edgegaurd~60% Mario has to edgegaurd around 110% with DI.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Brawl is currently a sweetspot lovers game but attacks go past range and through players game which means use N-air(low damage),F-air(slow),F-smash(slow),U-smash(no invincibility frames like melee or unlike doesn't clank with moves see fox's up-smash melee). Mario Doesn't have fast sweetspot moves N-air does too little damage to KO at %160+ with DI from center of stage. 8-9% means you have to hit ~20 times. The second problem is sweetspots don't lead into other attacks only secondary hitboxes except D-air which leads to edgegaurding. Basically unlike Melee where Mario could edgegaurd~60% Mario has to edgegaurd around 110% with DI.

This is Project M. Imma add you to ignore list.

 

[The Master of Mario]

This is Project M. Imma add you to ignore list.

Mario has fast decay to percentage and no KO power in aerials that's why he's low tier just shield and your fine

 

[Mr.Random]

Hey ez do you know how to make spoiler tags? I want to edit the OP but I don't want it to look cluttered.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Hey ez do you know how to make spoiler tags? I want to edit the OP but I don't want it to look cluttered.

Put [ collapse] then [ /collapse]
Remove the spaces and you'll get what you want.

 

[GeZ]

This Master of Mario guy. Jesus christ, what a mess.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Lucas

I feel this match up is 55:44 Both characters are very capable of taking the win. The reason I think the numbers are as close as they are, is because we have a chain grab, we are harder to get gimped and if need be, we can play defensive. Lucas is a character that has great offensive capability, but, he has rather poor defensive capability and he is a FF who is combo'd badly. He can still wreck people, so never sleep on this offensive, sheild pressuring, 8 year old basturd.

Stages to ban vs Lucas: Lucas does well on many stages, but some of his better stages are long and have a lot of room for him to weave in and out of. I Reccomend banning PS2, FD and the last is sorta preference. You could ban PS1 because it's very similar to PS2, it has a lower ceiling, so Lucas could get earlier up throw and usmash kills there, but it does transform and not all of those transformations are what Lucas wants. You could also ban DL or Dracs(if it's legal) when you counter pick, try small stages like FoD or WW to restrict his movement options or go to a place with high platforms so it doesn't mess up your chain grabs. BTW Di behind him for his Dthrow. It's a god send because he has few options to that. Once he catches on, you can just mix up the Di

Neutral Game: So yea, Lucas's side B, Dash Dance and fair are the main things he will be fishing for. You can CC that side B and wait and punish with a grab or Dsmash. If it hits, he is more than likely, going to follow up so be careful. The only thing he can do to fireballs is down B them and he has a little bit of lag when he does that. If you can put the pressure on, you've won. Lucas can not handle pressure well. Something good to try, once you get the pressure on, is cross up dair into grab, on sheild. It does wonders on all the characters in this game. If you can't get that grab at low % nair>dsmash will always have your back.

Punish Game: If he smashes your sheild, I don't even think you can punish that. I think the majority of the punish you get on Lucas, is from you asserting your dominance on him. His limited defensive options can be punish pretty good.

Edgeguarding: This can be a challenge, he has a lot of different options, but we have an answer for all of the ones I have seen. If he is just slowly drifting to the stage, get out there and RAR bair him; he will die. If he is trying to recover low, you can ether try to mess him up with fireballs, where you would then punish him, depending on what he did or forget all that, nair or bair him. The nair will catch him even if he air dodges and tries to tether. Sexkickop. Another thing you can do if he is recovering low or about perpendicular to the stage, jump out there, dair him, and then bair him into the stage for the stage spike. Oh and you can catch him if you just jump off the stage, double jump and stick that nair out. You'll have to reverse up B to get back to the stage, unless there is a wall, so be ready for that.

How to recover against them: Its about the same as most characters. Just watch out for his dair and bair, both of those can spike you and bair is very strong regardless.

Just to kinda go over what you should think about doing when recovering, dair works well, as long as he tries to hit you with an aerial, you'll beat him out. If he's on the ground, watch out, he might usmash you. Fireballs and nair work well.

Moves we can crouch cancel: uair, jab, ftilt, side B, dash attack, you can kinda CC his shine, but don't do that. I think that's about it? His shine is 3 frames just so you guys know. I don't think there is much more. Maybe his nair and fair but no more than that, if anything.

What NOT to do: Don't try to CC his shine. Don't let him get the momentum, he thrives on it. Don't let him have stages where he can collect himself, aka long stages. Don't be afraid to go off stage. Don't roll to much, but don't forget to roll at all during his shield pressure. Don't challenge his dair.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I didn't add to much for the punish game on him. About to play the MU sometime today, so I might be able to add more.

 

[Mr.Random]

I didn't add to much for the punish game on him. About to play the MU sometime today, so I might be able to add more.

The POWER OF ez! Same thing. I definitely think it's in Mario's favor. I have a local Lucas that I play a lot and whenever I land a hit he takes a bunch of damage.

 

[Mr.Random]

@ez I actually think Marth Mario is 60:40 in this game compared to Melee's 70:30. Have you ever tried dash attack when Marth is in the air? It's on Shiek levels of good because it comes out fast and Mario is low to ground and he can get huge strings of just this one move. I also think that WW while bad stages for Mario, one thing that keeps him from being decimated is how early Mario kills. 70% and also WW makes Marth's recovery more exploitable. GHZ is truly the worst stage for the MU.

 

[GeZ]

I don't get out enough to really be able to write full match up breakdowns, but I can pitch in little bits I know from the tourneys I've attended to maybe help with some MU descriptions that are already formed? I've got good experience against Falcon, Falco, ROB, and Link.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm about to fight a lot of link tomorrow before some tournament I have the day after. We could probably knock that out. @ GeZ

 

[GeZ]

That'd be swiggidy swoody.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I didn't get to play that link. Gonna go to that tournament in a bit, any falcon tips?

 

[GeZ]

I didn't get to play that link. Gonna go to that tournament in a bit, any falcon tips?

Tech chase for days. Edgeguard for ez time. Use fireballs sparingly as a smart Falcon will Nair through them and hurt your face.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Ended up not doing as well as I wanted. We did lameo round Robbin pools. I got tied for second but I had more loses so I didn't make it out. Didn't know some of those MU. Didn't do good against G&W and dropped a game on a yoshi, rob and like one er two others. I tried pit** vs Marth, didn't work out.

 

[GeZ]

Ended up not doing as well as I wanted. We did lameo round Robbin pools. I got tied for second but I had more loses so I didn't make it out. Didn't know some of those MU. Didn't do good against G&W and dropped a game on a yoshi, rob and like one er two others. I tried out vs Marth, didn't work out.

Not fond of round robin. It's really weak way to do any kind of ranking system honestly. That Marth match is tough, but always fun to try. And I've dropped matches against good Gdubs before. He can be really surprising.

 

[shapular]

Hey guys, I'm a G&W main with a decent Mario. I've been having trouble with a Ness and I'm at the point where I'm willing to try anything, including another character, so I thought maybe Mario would be a better matchup. What do you guys think of the Ness matchup and how do you play it?

 

[GeZ]

Ness is actually pretty free with Mario and Gdubs. What gives you trouble?

 

[shapular]

Oh gosh, just like, everything. PK Fire (I know how to DI it, just can't do it consistently), the free throw kills at 90%, the dair combos (which I can probably tech but usually miss), the fair, the general lack of safe approach options. I don't remember if I've used my Mario against him yet, but if you care to watch then this is the most recent video of me using my G&W against him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ9Wj1vuFdo

 

[GeZ]

From what I can see, you and the Ness are just going for it, which can really hamper your growth as knowledge of the neutral game is important. Try chilling out a bit and using better options for how Ness approaches. You used UpB as a panic button which it functions as, but only so much. Try leaving your feet on the ground more and shielding more. Good defense is a something something kill em, you know?

 

[ErcBert]

Hello, First post here. I find a lot of trouble with my friends Ike. The problems are similar to the ones described in Marth's matchup. What do you guys think of this matchup?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Hello, First post here. I find a lot of trouble with my friends Ike. The problems are similar to the ones described in Marth's matchup. What do you guys think of this matchup?

He's pretty slow an fireballs shut down a lot of his crap. He can't get in safely against mario. Dthrow follow ups are p free. Edge guarding can be hard, but if you time your ledge invincibility, bair will end him.

Could say some of the problems you have?

 

[ErcBert]

He's pretty slow an fireballs shut down a lot of his crap. He can't get in safely against mario. Dthrow follow ups are p free. Edge guarding can be hard, but if you time your ledge invincibility, bair will end him.

Could say some of the problems you have?

I have trouble getting close enough to hit him, and his forward smash keeps knocking me out even at low percentages. Admittedly I haven't had that many matches against Ike, my main is Mario, and his is Lucario. When he switched I just got destroyed. I think I need to work on pressuring him. He counters my fireballs with his neutral A (I hope that's what it's called.) I believe that should be leaving an opening for me to come in and strike and/or grab though, maybe I should try. I just challenged him to a admittedly low stakes match, and I haven't stopped thinking about what I'm going to do. I'm thinking of switching to Sheik much like he switched to Ike because I heard Sheik was good against him. Me and him are pretty new to Project M, and I recently got him back into smash. I think we're pretty noobish, but not bad. Pretty moderate skill wise.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I have trouble getting close enough to hit him, and his forward smash keeps knocking me out even at low percentages. Admittedly I haven't had that many matches against Ike, my main is Mario, and his is Lucario. When he switched I just got destroyed. I think I need to work on pressuring him. He counters my fireballs with his neutral A (I hope that's what it's called.) I believe that should be leaving an opening for me to come in and strike and/or grab though, maybe I should try. I just challenged him to a admittedly low stakes match, and I haven't stopped thinking about what I'm going to do. I'm thinking of switching to Sheik much like he switched to Ike because I heard Sheik was good against him. Me and him are pretty new to Project M, and I recently got him back into smash. I think we're pretty noobish, but not bad. Pretty moderate skill wise.

For staters, check these guides out:

Spoiler

http://smashboards.com/threads/stub...mprehensive-mario-guide.346088/#post-16846554

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-uses-of-mario.338939/

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-uses-of-mario.338939/[/collapse]

Alright, so his fsmash is hitting you raw, I take it. To punish that ether do one of the follow:
1) DD and space out the range of his fsmash so he will wiff and you can punish.
2) Shield it, and wavedash in and punish him.

You should try short hopping, full hopping, grounded and even b reversed fireballs, just it mix it up. You can do a lot with that.

You'll wanna work on your Di as well. Ike is a heavy hitter, but you shouldn't be dying early, unless he gets an fsmash off where you don't Di or he spikes/gimps you.

 

[ErcBert]

For staters, check these guides out:

Spoiler

http://smashboards.com/threads/stub...mprehensive-mario-guide.346088/#post-16846554

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-uses-of-mario.338939/

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-uses-of-mario.338939/[/collapse]

Alright, so his fsmash is hitting you raw, I take it. To punish that ether do one of the follow:
1) DD and space out the range of his fsmash so he will wiff and you can punish.
2) Shield it, and wavedash out if shield and punish him.

You should try short hopping, full hopping, grounded and even b reversed fireballs, just it mix it up. You can do a lot with that.

You'll wanna work on your Di as well. Ike is a heavy hitter, but you shouldn't be dying early, unless he gets an fsmash off where you don't Di or he spikes/gimps you.

Thanks! I actually lurked in Gez's thread before I made this account. I got some of it read, I need to finish it. I definitely need to work on short hopping, and wavedashing. And his F Smash is exactly what was getting me early. I also really need to mix things up, I tend to play pretty aggressively, I need to work on my defense/countering.