NEW AND IMPROVED MARIO MATCHUP THREAD

[TTTTTsd]

IDK about Ganon, float helps a bit but I don't know how much it helps against Mario. I think Mario can still CG him decently and fireballs are still effective against Ganon even while nerfed as his reflector is rather unwieldly and isn't as good as a traditional cape or anything like that. Fox will probably be 55:45 or 60:40 for Mario yeah, Sheik around the same. Pit is the only one I can't give any real input towards.

Also dunno about Mewtwo, his nerfs take him off the block quite a bit and he has to be played quite differently now if I recall. His tail got shorter and I think Uptilt and Upair got a bit worse as a result.

 

[deadjames]

Mario was never able to CG Ganon, and fireballs aren't very effective, Ganon has tons of time to eat through them and hit you now, plus his faster jump squat, and spot dodge make him extremely hard to pin down now, and he outclasses Mario in the footsie game.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ah yes, I keep forgetting about his jump squat and spotdodge. Yeah I could see this as kind of bad for Mario now, I guess if I factored that in, I'd say...maybe 60:40 again? I can't see any MU being worse than 7:3 against Mario (Only one I can recall with that now would be Marth. not Mewtwo anymore thanks to clipped tail and less approach options overall on his end).

I think Ganon's pretty winnable though so IDK, he's definitely a lot scarier now.

 

[deadjames]

Yeah it's definitely winnable, it's just not in Mario's favor anymore imo.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Only one I can see being close to unwinnable in a practical sense would definitely have to be Marth. He will always be a bad MU for Mario, although it's amplified by fireball nerf in this case. I'm glad I picked up more than just Mario before this patch ;P. I'll always recommend Mario as a solid secondary though.

 

[deadjames]

Let me just open debugode
I still summon @Strong Bad
I just checked debug
It isnt there. Just like I said, BAKA.

According to Shell: Debug mode only displays full-body invuln / intangibility / armor, it cannot display invuln / intangibility which is targeted to a certain bone's hurtbox

Only Mario's head is invincible during his usmash, so yeah, it's still there.

 

[TTTTTsd]

D-Throw to FAir still works on lots of chars. Just tested on Roy, works at 105% on Roy.

Might work at lower %s than before thanks to higher KBG. Also do note that this was tested with no DI. Granted DI can't save you since it only changes the angle of the D-Throw bounce and not if Fair can hit, thanks to Mario's air speed.

But yeah, it's there.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Get one of them to say so then.

 

[deadjames]

I don't need to, I know it's still there, and I don't even play this character anymore, so I really don't care if you spread misinformation.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I am absolutely positive it's still there as I can find no recorded changelogs that mention removing the invincibility on Mario's UpSmash and I can see no reason why they would. Not like it would really hurt the move it's still really fast, but I can't see it being gone.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I am absolutely positive it's still there as I can find no recorded changelogs that mention removing the invincibility on Mario's UpSmash and I can see no reason why they would. Not like it would really hurt the move it's still really fast, but I can't see it being gone.

I mean, they are removing plenty of the intangibly moves from the entire cast. They just removed the intangibility from this dtilt. I remember hearing that it was removed from a reliable source, I just don't remember where. @ Scatz You remember hearing about the intangibility being removed, right? Besides, the PMBR has made changes in the past and not included them in the patch notes. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means it wasn't documented.

Here's an example of something they didn't list in the past. I think it was ether 3.0 or 3.2, where they raised some ceilings, by a few units and crap and didn't put that on the patch notes. They did it to nerf fox indirectly. There was a few other indirect fox nerfs that came along with that, I just forget. It happened, they just chose not to list it for w/e reason.

 

[deadjames]

That was definitely listed, and also not intended to be an indirect Fox nerf, I was actually in the room when Strong Bad explained that to M2K it was quite a funny conversation, and Mario's head is invulnerable during his upsmash, not intangible, those are two completely different properties.

 

[Scatz]

He doesn't have the invincibility. Even in 3.02, I couldn't anti-air with it properly. I just feels like it's completely normal. At the same time, almost everyone's moves that had invinciblity or intangibility are either toned down, or removed (only true SRKs now are Mario's UpB & Bowser's UpB). If the invincibility is still there, it doesn't show up in debug mode.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I guess the best way to test if intangible/invincible things show up is to test Falco's Dsmash and check his legs, since they had either or, I can't recall. It'd be an easy way to check if they ported the hitboxes straight up.

 

[deadjames]

He doesn't have the invincibility. Even in 3.02, I couldn't anti-air with it properly. I just feels like it's completely normal. At the same time, almost everyone's moves that had invinciblity or intangibility are either toned down, or removed (only true SRKs now are Mario's UpB & Bowser's UpB). If the invincibility is still there, it doesn't show up in debug mode.

It won't show up in debug mode because it's only on his head, and debug mode can't show invulnerability on specific bones' hurtboxes. I definitely didn't have any trouble anti-airing with it in 3.02.

 

[Scatz]

Guess I'll have to use other testing methods then.