Ness's Moveset Discussion - Rediscussion of Current Moves

[Gaussis]

So anything else on Fsmash? What should we do next?

 

[Neon Ness]

PK SUNDAE!!!

...Please?

 

[Gaussis]

Sorry, Lucas is the one that freezes stuff

Spoiler

jk jk

.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Neon Ness]

Let's do aerials before moving to special attacks. Ness' element...

I say forward air.

 

[Earthbound360]

I say we do his pummel.

 

[Gaussis]

I would prefer we do his grabs (and pummel) all at once. It's easier that way.

 

[Uffe]

Well before ending f-smashes discussion, use more Pivot Smashes, thanks. If grab to pummel is the next one, I'm going to say Ness' grab is easy to pull out of, so I usually do one pummel and then f-throw or u-throw. It's more worthwhile using on opponents at higher percent than beginning damage.

 

[Gaussis]

Well actually, we haven't really decided what we're picking. Neon wants fair, EB360 wants the pummel (as a joke???).

 

[Neon Ness]

Now, now, let's be Fair and listen to everyone's opinion.

I don't think it'd be Fair to discuss pummel without discussing grabs.

How do Ness' aerials Fair against other characters' aerials?

...Fair.

 

[:mad:]

Pummel is so bad imo, it's not worth discussing by itself.

Fair puns lol.
I still think Fsmash is underrated.

 

[_clinton]

Lets finish ground moves ok?

 

[Gaussis]

Well for ground moves we still have dsmash and DA. I would also agree to finish the ground moves. I pick dsmash just to get it out of the way though.

 

[_clinton]

Overall Dsmash has worse issues then the Usmash does (slower by one frame, and it is easier to avoid the 2nd hit IMO)

Plus the range on the start of it isn't as long as the range on the start of the Usmash (For some odd reason) of course the ending range is greater...

It does a good job at protecting Ness' feet if he is above the foe though...and I think it has more priority then the Usmash as well...

The knock back on it pisses me off to no end though...because it is the same as the Usmash...if it hit them like JP's, Zelda's, or some other Dsmashs I would like it a lot more...

 

[Gaussis]

OK people, we're doing dsmash. If we can get through it tonight, MAYBE we'll be able to do another move. IDK about dsmash. I have a certain blind hatred against it. The second hit is a bit too easy to smash DI it, kind of like Ivysaur's Bullet Seed. The back has certainly more range than the front though.

 

[Uffe]

This is possibly one of my favorite smash attacks. This is good against opponents who roll and spot dodge. There are ways of making good use of this attack. I used it in recent gameplay and I used it against R.O.B. recently. Okay, so using it on R.O.B. really doesn't say much, I know. I just wanted to make it seem like it's a great attack. And it is. How you use it determines how effective it is. Duh, this could be said about any attack. But you're missing the point. I'd go into details, but I don't want to talk about it in the open.

 

[ColinJF]

Down smash is good for when you want to quickly throw out a hitbox behind Ness. Make sure you hit with the sweetspot though, or it isn't safe on hit.

 

[xoxokev]

This is possibly one of my favorite smash attacks.

All I have to say is that the few times that I played Uffe on wifi, he totally rocked me with dsmash... Either this move is highly underrated/underused, or I just super suck at wifi... or both. Probably both

 

[:mad:]

I so rarely use it, but, it isn't useless.
Mainly just for anyone behind me.
It's just not worth trying to get someone in front of you, they can probably get a hit in first.
My only complaint is how slow it is, and the knockback. It's not meant to be a kill move, but the damage doesn't impress either.

 

[Uffe]

All I have to say is that the few times that I played Uffe on wifi, he totally rocked me with dsmash... Either this move is highly underrated/underused, or I just super suck at wifi... or both. Probably both

Meh, wifi. However, I have my reasons for loving this smash attack. I could share some tips to you if you want me to.

 

[:mad:]

Meh, wifi. However, I have my reasons for loving this smash attack. I could share some tips to you if you want me to.

Please do, it's my least used smash.

 

[_clinton]

Jab
Knockback:*
Speed:****
Priority:***
Range:**
Overall Rating: ***

Dash Attack
Knockback:**
Speed:***
Priority:****
Range:****
Overall Rating: ****

Ftilt
Knockback:**
Speed:***
Priority:****
Range:**
Overall Rating: ***

Utilt
Knockback:**
Speed:****
Priority:****
Range:**
Overall Rating: ****

Dtilt
Knockback:*
Speed:*****
Priority:****
Range:*
Overall Rating:***

Usmash
Knockback:**
Speed:**
Priority:****
Range:****
Overall Rating: ***

Fsmash
Knockback:****
Speed:**
Priority:****
Range:***
Overall Rating:***

Dsmash
Knockback:**
Speed:**
Priority:****
Range:****
Overall Rating: ***

Just giving my thoughts on things I'm going to do airs now...

Nair
Knockback:**
Speed:*****
Priority:*****
Range:**
Overall Rating:****

Fair
Knockback:*
Speed:****
Priority:*****
Range:*****
Overall Rating:****

Bair
Knockback:***
Speed:****
Priority:****
Range:**
Overall Rating:****

Uair
Knockback:***
Speed:****
Priority:****
Range:**
Overall Rating:****

Dair
Knockback:*****
Speed:**
Priority:*****
Range:***
Overall Rating:****

PK Flash
Knockback:*->*****
Speed:**
Priority:*****
Range:**
Overall Rating:***

PK Fire
Knockback:*
Speed:**
Priority:*****
Range:****
Overall Rating:***

PK Thunder
Knockback:*->*****
Speed:***
Priority:*****
Range:*****
Overall Rating:****

PSI Magnet
Knockback:*
Speed:**
Priority:****
Range:***
Overall Rating:***

 

[_clinton]

Whoops...sorry

 

[Gaussis]

If anyone disagrees with the current scores as of now, you can say what exactly you disagree on, and start from there. I will probably get to the next discussion by tomorrow X_X, unless of course if someone has another move they would like to discuss, and I can change it now.

 

[Neon Ness]

*waits patiently for PSI Magnet/Flash to be discussed*

 

[:mad:]

*waits patiently for PSI Magnet/Flash to be discussed*

With the rate we're going that could be in a few days.

 

[Gaussis]

*waits patiently for PSI Magnet/Flash to be discussed*

<_<

With the rate we're going that could be in a few days.

>_>'


Ok, PK Flash it is, I suppose.

 

[:mad:]

<_<



>_>'


Ok, PK Flash it is, I suppose.

Sorry. ^^;
I think everyone just wants to get specials done now. Especially Neon.

 

[Uffe]

PK Flash is situational. This is good for edge guarding your opponents unless they have a really good recovery. Usually this attack is best used near you unless you're fighting characters that can reflect your attack. It's pointless to use against Ness or Lucas, though.

 

[:mad:]

I've found PK Flash to be very useful offstage, yes, possibly his best edgeguard.
When you start the charging, you can usually scare someone into delaying their recovery by DI'ing back a little, this is a useful mindgame, and a powerful KO move.
If you land one, you just can't help but smile.
I once used it on a Lucas so they'd absorb it. The magnet lag opened a window for a spike. I'll never try to recreate this again.

 

[AvariceX]

PK Flash *****.

Well...not always, but use it occasionally as a mixup; especially when your opponent is expecting PKT camping. Sometimes your opponent will instinctively do something to stop the PKT as soon as they hear "PK ____" and end up eating a PK Flash to the face, or they just don't actually know the timing and hitbox to avoid PK Flash because it is so rarely used.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR8TR3F7rk 1:18-1:25

Also I shouldn't need to tell most people this but your best option after a shield break is always short-hop -> charged PK Flash.

Most people probably already know this too but an uncharged PK Flash to hit someone right above you is just as fast as (and slightly more damaging than) PKT.

PK Flash also outprioritizes pretty much everything and is like Din's Fire in that it can't be stopped by attackable obstacles or any opposing attack before it detonates.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

It's good for slow, mostly vertical recoveries, nice edgeguard.
Good for Ganon, Snake, Etc.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I love PK bomb (I refuse to call it PK flash) if you just press the B button and do an insta-release on the PK bomb, I find it go to stale an opponent's aerial approach.

 

[Neon Ness]

It's pointless to use against Ness or Lucas, though.

Yeah, I used to think this, too, but I've been trying to think of ways of mindgaming a Ness/Lucas with PK Flash... Like, if they've lost their second jump and you use it, naturally they'll pull out PSI Magnet. If you start to retreat PK Flash outta range of being absorbed, then they've wasted time they could have used moving nearer to the stage and could be more easily edgeguarded since they're recovering from a lower position. Theorycraft, of course, but it might be useful... Also, if your timing is pefect, you could try starting up PK Flash as soon as they begin to try to recover with PKT2. They can't use PSI Magnet and PKT2 at the same time, of course, so.... I think you see what I'm getting at. Again, difficult to pull off, and more useful against another Ness than it would be against Ryuka since the latter can recover without PKT2.

PK Flash, as has been said, is one of if not Ness' greatest tool when guarding the edge. The fear factor alone will mess up opponents' recovery. On stage, it's useful for grab happy opponents; I do this a lot. They'll try to grab often when there's a small distance between the two of you, so what I do is detonate PK Flash on myself. A lot of Ness' do this, actually; it functions well as shield and KO move. Also, PK Flash apparently bypasses the super armor frames of a grab. O_O A fearsome move, to be sure. I'm also working on following down throw with PK Flash because of the trajectory at which it sends the opponent. Haven't tested it yet, though.

 

[:mad:]

I love PK bomb (I refuse to call it PK flash) if you just press the B button and do an insta-release on the PK bomb, I find it go to stale an opponent's aerial approach.

Excuse me, Wiggles. (I refuse to call you Canvasofgrey.)
Care to explain a little more?

 

[Gaussis]

@Neon: I've done that stuff on Ness/Lucas before...

Also, grab release on the edge to PK Flash anyone?

 

[xoxokev]

@Neon: I've done that stuff on Ness/Lucas before...

Also, grab release on the edge to PK Flash anyone?

GR on edge -> PK Flash??? wouldn't it be too slow???

 

[AvariceX]

@Neon: I've done that stuff on Ness/Lucas before...

Also, grab release on the edge to PK Flash anyone?

If only. It's too slow even against Wario though.

Also I forgot to rate it...it's hard to rate actually, it's amazing in the right situations... but so situational.

 

[:mad:]

@Neon: I've done that stuff on Ness/Lucas before...

Also, grab release on the edge to PK Flash anyone?

No way.
Grab release to Caz Combo.


4/5 for me, strictly because of mindgames, utter power, and fear.

 

[Neon Ness]

Grab release to Flash... Eh, it'd be good for mindgamez, but not for actually expecting it to hit, I'd think. If you do get it to hit, well...

Kudos to you.

 

[Uffe]

PK Flash also outprioritizes pretty much everything and is like Din's Fire in that it can't be stopped by attackable obstacles or any opposing attack before it detonates.

You can actually bair Din's Fire. XD Attempting that on PK Flash wont work, though.

@ Neon Ness: I don't think I'd be able to do that. Maybe pull out a few PK Flashes over and over again might work?