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Guide NESSBOUNDER'S Nesstastic Ness Guide (PAL version.)

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
Hi.

Sorry everybody, I've been absent for a long time, basically because I don't really have much business on this site anymore. I no longer write fanfics as I have a fully fledged Deviantart account now where I can post my artworks, so I kind of don't need to come here anymore...

However, you can be sure to see more of me when Brawl comes out, that's a promise!!
 

thesage

Smash Hero
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A better combo probably is down throw to fair to up throw to thunder/ u-tilt/ uair. Shove only helps setting up combos for me.
 

toasty

Smash Hero
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Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA - IT'S SOVA, BABY! <
I haven't taken the time to look through all the replies so my apologies if this has already been said.
But aside from the obviously amazing yoyo glitch and the effective edgeguard [esp against those who try to sweetspot since...well they can't if your yoyo is sitting over the edge spinning], a cool use for the upsmash is mostly useful if you're good at predicting aerial attacks from your opponent. This is especially effective against characters who rely heavily on aerials [Ganon, C.Falcon]. If you know they're going to attack from above, if you time the release of the yoyo correctly it will create kind of a protective fence, especially since the yoyo is a disjointed hitbox, if you can nail the opponent before their attack hits your body, your yoyo will win EVERY time. Now depending on where they are in relation your yoyo [above, diagonally in front/behind you] and how much damage they have, that will determine whether you follow up with a bair, nair, utilt, grab, etc.


as for an upsmash combo move, it's just a two-hitter but it's a **** effective one. Unfortunately the first requirement is your ability to predict and/or use mindgames to draw someone into it (unfortunately I've never effectively studied that last part to the point where I can give you a definite answer on how to lead someone into it...I just kind of see the opportunity and I do it...I'll try and record some matches so that when I land it again, I can give some more details].
SKIP THIS PARAGRAPH IF YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE READING THIS NEXT PART WHICH ISN'T ABOUT THE MOVE
I'm sorry for wasting your time if someone already posted this or if it's just common knowledge, but I only felt it's worth mentioning because a friend of mine, who would be a better known smasher if he wasn't working/schooling full-time and would probably be pro, has played regularly against some of the best Nesses in the nation [like AngryLobster] and he said he's never seen a Ness do this.



NOW! after all the babbling, here are the two hits:
you want to hit the opponent with an upsmash when the yoyo is about 45 degrees from the ground in front of you, then as soon as you can, bat the crap out of em. Sounds simple right? But as any Ness player knows, actually using the up-smash effectively [or even at all!] is a risky endeavor against anyone with skill.

NOTE: how often you can get away with trying/using this next two-hit combo heavily depends on the skill of your opponent. But whenever you manage to land it, it will be equally effective.
Another yoyo->bat combo that's really good against fastfallers [who are, by coincidence, typically your hardest fights] involves the dsmash and only works as a result of a mindgame. First: you have to be facing your opponent! Second: This is best used when the opponent starts out near the edge, as you'll end up sending them flying off which you can follow up with either a fair, a PK Thunder tailwhip, or a PK Flash.

If you're facing an aggresive player; Sheiks/Foxes[and some C. Falcons] are the biggest offenders since they're fast "smash'n'grab" [haha, not in the SSBM sense of those words] type characters who love dash attacks and think they can land any opportunity they want to take...which is all of them. Two keys which aren't difficult in theory, but in practice, not easy at all: Spacing and Mindgame
SPACING [which is crucial to whether you'll punish their aggressiveness or if they'll punish your riskiness]: if you know the range of your dsmash well, this will be infinitely easier to space. however far the yoyo would go out in front of you after the initial hit of the dsmash, that should be less than half of the distance between you and the opponent...shouldn't try it any closer than that, too risky and difficult to execute because it depends on your reaction speed as well. Although: the slower your opponent's character, the closer you can afford to try this.

MINDGAME: two words: CHARGE IT!!!!!! Everyone who doesn't use Ness just thinks he's slow and thus he gets written off as "too difficult to win with but easy as hell to beat" But Ness players know that he's grossly underestimated [effing GW, I almost wrote "misunderestimated"]. A Sheik/Fox see a Ness charging a yoyo that's behind him and they think you're begging to get *****. they'll almost always dash attack, or at the very least they'll run in for a grab. [NOTE: this is easier against Fox players because 1) his lasers have no impact unlike Sheiks needles and 2) his dash-attack isn't a quick lunge forward the way Sheiks is, which makes it easier to time] When you're charging, as soon as you see them make a move, release the yoyo, it will go in front of you before they get in range for their attack or grab, it will pop them up slightly [best used when they have medium damage] and they won't have a chance to really DI either since they weren't expecting to get hit and because they're stunned long enough for them to come down to the ground. And then obviously, use your bat! If your opponent has crazy good reflexes and manages to DI, the cool part is that if he DI's toward you, he still gets hit with the bat, albeit the inside/weak part, and if he DI's away from you, he'll get the tip, which is infinitely worse. As I mentioned, esp against slow-to-recover/fast-falling/Crouch-cancel-w.hore characters, this is best if done when your opponent starts out near the edge. It'll get batted over the edge and if he's close, run and shorthop off the edge and fair/nair them, if they're hit too far away for that, PK Thunder tailwhip or PK Flash from the stage.

I know I know, a whole lot of instruction for a move you will rarely use against good players, but it's just another Ace up Ness's sleeve that people won't expect and that they'll usually die from. I hope this helps SOMEONE. Jeez.

OH!!! one huge note:......................if they do an aerial instead of running at you...you're f*cked. =D
(but they won't! trust me!)
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
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Good and not so good. I'm not doing too well at Uni at the moment. I'm gonna be failing two subjects and repeating them next semester. Besides that, I'm totally good, thanks!

Are you gonna come back for the holidays? Because I really want to play smash with you again!
 

King Kong

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
1,451
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Good and not so good. I'm not doing too well at Uni at the moment. I'm gonna be failing two subjects and repeating them next semester. Besides that, I'm totally good, thanks!

Are you gonna come back for the holidays? Because I really want to play smash with you again!
Dude, thats what first year uni is all about. Failing some ****. After that you decide whether or not you want to continue on. Im third year now lol and i still might fail a subject this semester.

I cant come back on these holidays. But i'll be around for a couple months around crissy time.

peace out
 

REDRAGON

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
831
I need help with my Samus stage selection against Ness(CHECK SIG FOR LINK)
None of the Ness guides cover his stage pros and cons so can some Ness expert check out the guide and please post ON THE THREAD!!!

Thanks!


Redragon
 

Levitas

the moon
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Jul 20, 2007
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Location
Ann Arbor, MI
lol @ above, but we all know that Ness has soul-sucking tenticles of doom under his hat, so I'd consider Lucas's hair to be trumped.
 

GarraLeeLink7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
85
Location
Cedar City UT
Very nice guide! I am a Fox player, but I want Ness as my secondary. I will try out the tips:) but I need a strategy against Marth...
hehe... Hahha... HHAHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!! AAAAAGGHGHGH! MY GORSH Ur So FAWNAY! XD

"Strategy Against Marth" haha Ya There Is One, Beg For Mercy... D< BWAHAHAHA lol! XD U Cant Win A Marth! =P Silly!

I'm Jk'n Man... My Friend Secondaries Ness, And Beats Me About 40% Of Teh Time... How?

By Simply Being As UNaggressive As Possible, You See, As A Marth, You Like Up-Close And Personal Battles, And Arial Ones, AND People Who Run At You Swing Like There On Crack Constantly, (Down+B Counter Murders Them... XP) What We Don't Like, Are The Smart, Camping(No projectiles) Projectile-Spamming(Again No Projectiles) Brawlers Who Also No When To Get Up Close...

See A Pattern There? Marth's ONLY True Weakness Is He Has No Projectiles... YOU DO! =D

So Ya It Might Be Kinda Cheap, And I Wouldn't Do It But, SPAMMING PROJECTILES PWNS A MARTH! XD He Also Has No Quick-Dash Like Evasive Move, Yet Another Weakness To A Projectile Game...

Hope That Helps!

- GLL7
 

thesage

Smash Hero
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Wait, the only projectile Ness has that could possilbe be effective vs. Marth is pk thunder.

Do you really have problems dealing with pkt?

Just airdodge, run up and f-smash ness...
 

GarraLeeLink7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
85
Location
Cedar City UT
Wait, the only projectile Ness has that could possilbe be effective vs. Marth is pk thunder.

Do you really have problems dealing with pkt?

Just airdodge, run up and f-smash ness...
Quite Honestly, PKFire Is Quite The ***** To... It Fires To Just Beyond The Reach Of My Counter(Especially When Fired In-Air) Or Any Other Of My Sword Swinging(Which IS All Of Them) Moves... In Melee, PKThunder-Fallowed By A PK Flash, Is Killer, You See, If I'm In The Air And You PKT Me, I Can Either Take The Hit, Or Try To Airdodge, (Which I Usually Do) Then, I'm A Falling-Duck... XD To His PK Flash, Trust Me, Ness Is One Of My Lest Favorite People To Fight As A Marth... XD

EDIT: I Should Say, A GOOD Ness Is One Of My Least Fav's A Nooby One Is No-Problem...
 

thesage

Smash Hero
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You can di out of pk fire fairly easily and then you are given ample opportunity to punish the endlag of pk fire. You can shield while in the pillar of pk fire and roll out.


Pk flash is not a threat at all... unless your using it to edgeguard.
 

Simna ibn Sind

THIS IS unMODNESS!
BRoomer
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SIND#745
When I See A Post Where The First Letter Of Every Word Is Capitalized It Makes Me Think It Was Originally Typed In All Caps.

Also: Garralee Watch Some Melee Videos On Youtube.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
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pk fire isn't as bad as people make it out to be. You just can't miss lol. There are ways you can use it so that you stay safe while the projectile is out.

I spam pk thunder way more then I should.
 

thesage

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Pk fire isn't safe on hit though... It can be used for edgeguarding I guess, but I never do that.
 

thesage

Smash Hero
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if you do it at the beginning of your jump and don't fast fall then yes. It's faster to shffl aerials instead of taking advantage of IASA frames though.
 

Simna ibn Sind

THIS IS unMODNESS!
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SIND#745
DjC is Doublejump Cancel. Ever notice how when you are using Ness' doublejump and you do an attack it cuts off his jump and makes him start falling? That's DjC. It may seem like a bad thing at first (and it does have disadvantages attached to it), but it can be used to Ness' benefit.
 

PSI-Apocalypse

Smash Apprentice
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DjC is Doublejump Cancel. Ever notice how when you are using Ness' doublejump and you do an attack it cuts off his jump and makes him start falling? That's DjC. It may seem like a bad thing at first (and it does have disadvantages attached to it), but it can be used to Ness' benefit.
Oh, I actually I use it, but I've seen some videos that do a smaller short hop and I was thinking that that was DjC, now I nottice that I was wrong. Thanks Simna you ever answer my doubts :D, and you know how to do a smaller short hop, because when I short hop I see another distance betwen the ground that wen I see videos of ness' short hop like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz_wMI2NXcs in the minute =0:37 he does a dropkick almost in the ground or in the minute 3:57 how does mofo short hop so near the ground?
 

Simna ibn Sind

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Oh, I actually I use it, but I've seen some videos that do a smaller short hop and I was thinking that that was DjC, now I nottice that I was wrong.
No, you were right. That jump that is smaller than a short hop is a DjC. DjC is using an attack to cancel your double jump. You can do a double jump as low to the ground as you want simply by pressing jump (while on the ground) twice at varying speeds depending on how low you wanna go.


Try it: stand on the ground as Ness and press jump, jump, then A very quickly. The faster you do it the lower you will do your attack. (You can even go so low that your attack fails to come out)

After you have that down, complete the technique by adding fast falling to the attack and L-cancelling. It should be something like: Y+Y+A+Down+R.



That move that Mofo did at 0:37 was a DjCFFL'd back air. Probably performed like this: Y+Back(hold)+Y+A+Down+R. (Y can be replaced with X and R can be replaced with L or Z as well.....he could have also used the c-stick to do the aerial instead of A)
 

PSI-Apocalypse

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Oh, nice, I just do that and you're right, thanks, I'm trying to master that, but I was missing the fast fall and L-Canceling to become something like SHFFL but instead short hop it's DjC, oh now I see, well thanks, I've been learning a lot of things. I have another question, If you dont mind, How good or bad it's to use the c-stick, because a friend tell me that it's bad to use it, but I found that it's pretty versatile when SHFFLing, it's he right, it's bad to use the c-stick or is in some way forbidden? thanks for all your answers :bee:
 

PSI-Apocalypse

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with "abuse", I meant to replace the combination of a + stick, to make all attacks. Like a cousin, which only uses the c-stick and doesn't touch the A button, so he can't charge attacks, make strong attacks and also dash attacks, obviously he isn't good at all, because he hasn't control over his attacks, but if you use it like a way to short your mechanism of attack, then you have a good balance of the c-stick and the normal or ordinary combination :bee: . (all of this in my opinion)
 

Simna ibn Sind

THIS IS unMODNESS!
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Oh okay. The c-stick is fine to use for anything that the cstick can do...smash attacks, aerials, sidestepping, rolling, etc. Of course you wouldnt use the cstick to do things the cstick cant do^_^.

(oh and actually you CAN charge smashes using the cstick but its very impractical)
 
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