Ness

[NessOnett]

peaches A-combo is already a series of slaps

Then you and her can be happy burning in hell together.

I don't think that the flash and thunder overlap is that problematic. One is a power reward, the other is a utility reward.

Theres only a few reasonable ways to make PKT "less gimpable" that I can see though:
1. Make it like Lucas'. This is bad, as it changes functionality in an overall bad way, since the way it knocked enemies(and cancelled into them) was one of its strengths.
2. Make PK2 distance further. The best solution I can think of. Doing your circle further from the platform makes it a lot more difficult for opponents to mess with it. More time for them to prep a punish on re-entry though.
3. Tighter turning/smaller circle. Would probably be overpowered. And would be a major learning issue for people who have practiced for years in its current form.

Hell, they could always leave it and go all-in to just buff the hell out of Ness' on-platform game to offset the fact that his recovery is so easily crushed. So relatively 'easier' to kill(than most characters, same as his previous forms), but harder to survive against(further enforcing his high-risk high-reward style). Similar to how he was in 64(iirc).

 

[grizby2]

they could make it so when you go into PKT2, you can slightly curve ness as he flies through the air.
I say "slightly" because it would be a bit OP if you could position it accurately all the time and continuously hit people with it.
it would also aid his recovery success by a decent amount.

 

[NessOnett]

they could make it so when you go into PKT2, you can slightly curve ness as he flies through the air.
I say "slightly" because it would be a bit OP if you could position it accurately all the time and continuously hit people with it.
it would also aid his recovery success by a decent amount.

I suppose that would be a reasonable change. Although I'm rather liking the idea of simply making his ground game as beastly as it was in the original. That spike, that bat, those grabs. Sure, they were good in melee. But they weren't like they were before.

 

[ScottSan]

Always been a fan of Ness, I mained him in 64. Great combo set-up, and could easily over-whelm and over-power somebody (if you know what you're doing). He's been in all three so far, so I don't think that he WON'T come back. I also enjoyed the fact that Lucas was in there, although in some ways, he was kind of a clone. Still, having more than one Earthbound/Mother character in Smash Bros was awesome! I'd definitely play some SSB4 with Ness.

And I agree with NessOnett: His game in 64 was...godly. You could easily wreck somebody's business and they wouldn't have the first clue of what to do, lol. Dat spike doe.

 

[nessokman]

Brawl ness was fun. I liked doing side-A, jumping and doing side-A again, then double jumping and doing it again, then do backward air

 

[NessOnett]

Brawl ness was fun. I liked doing side-A, jumping and doing side-A again, then double jumping and doing it again, then do backward air

Not nearly as fun or as useful as his DJC. The number one worst change about brawl was the removal of that.

 

[grizby2]

I hope they put some clever idle animations in for him. maybe he could play with his yo-yo while waiting, or a magic butterfly flutters past him and grabs his attention.

 

[Starcutter]

If you didn't notice, this happened.

 

[grizby2]

If you didn't notice, this happened.

yeah, it was discussed a bit on the last page.

I love how they try to make the game look so darn fun.

boy, aren't they in for a world of hurt.

 

[Starcutter]

yeah, it was discussed a bit on the last page.

I love how they try to make the game look so darn fun.

boy, aren't they in for a world of hurt.

well, it IS rated Teen (or whatever) and they did have that freaky giygas intro.

I figure that's their excuse if any child has horror nightmares and stuff.

 

[ScottSan]

Earthbound was a great game, and I'm glad that it's made it's way onto the VC (or whatever it's called now; forgive me, I don't have a 3DS/Wii U, only a Wii). The farthest I've gotten (so far) is the desert place, after that, I'm lost lol. That game is definitely among the top ten craziest, funniest, and hardest RPGs out there to date! XD

 

[grizby2]

Earthbound was a great game, and I'm glad that it's made it's way onto the VC (or whatever it's called now; forgive me, I don't have a 3DS/Wii U, only a Wii). The farthest I've gotten (so far) is the desert place, after that, I'm lost lol. That game is definitely among the top ten craziest, funniest, and hardest RPGs out there to date! XD

im on my 3rd playthrough, and im at the end right now. im trying to get everyone's best weapons this time. they each have a 1/128 chance to drop from specific monsters...... (very, very, VERY time consuming )

 

[ScottSan]

Hard-core fan, huh? The hardest part for me was the Cemetary place, with all of the undead. That game is so hard, I guess you just gotta LVL up a whole lot to progress. I'm playing Star Ocean: First Departure. That's pretty hard, too.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

well, it IS rated Teen (or whatever) and they did have that freaky giygas intro.

I figure that's their excuse if any child has horror nightmares and stuff.

After playing it myself I was wondering what they'd do, censor some parts of the game or rate it Teen, I'm glad they went with the latter, censoring stuff just sucks. It's definitely another gaming world than it was back then, Earthbound is by far the most obscure and weird game that's represented in Smash Bros, but in turn it's also the best game represented (and the best game ever imo.)

Hard-core fan, huh? The hardest part for me was the Cemetary place, with all of the undead. That game is so hard, I guess you just gotta LVL up a whole lot to progress. I'm playing Star Ocean: First Departure. That's pretty hard, too.

Earthbound remains one of the only RPGs where I never had to stop the story just to grind, sharing that honor with Pokémon. It has a constant flow to it if you ask me. The cemetary part is pretty hard though, so despite it not being necessary it's still a good idea to grind some. I find Mother 3 a lot more unforgiving on that part, the bosses are a lot harder and there's not much opportunity to grind since there's not a long way in between bosses. I think that Earthbound did a much better job at that.

 

[NessOnett]

Hard-core fan, huh? The hardest part for me was the Cemetary place, with all of the undead. That game is so hard, I guess you just gotta LVL up a whole lot to progress. I'm playing Star Ocean: First Departure. That's pretty hard, too.

I never really understood the concept behind a traditional RPG being 'hard." They are only as hard as you make them, given that if you are having difficulty you can always grind. Grinding being, by definition, easy albeit time consuming. And with enough grinding every RPG because trivial. So they can be too easy if they overly accelerate your leveling(pokemon), but I don't think they can ever really be "hard."

That being said, I almost never grinded in EB(save for 'grinding' for 1/128 weapons). Because I like my RPGs as challenging as possible. But making it easier if I needed it would be a simple task.

 

[ScottSan]

Maybe I'm just not that good at EB, but it's still definitely a great game, no matter how easy/hard it may be to some people. That, and the story-line is really good and funny at times!

 

[MrFuzzyPickle]

Hey. Well this is what I think is going to happen to Ness.
---
Ness IS coming back to SSB4
Why? He's getting an appearance to the VC, not Mother 2, but Earthbound. Plus, Earthbound was somewhat succesful, why not add him again?
---
Fanmade Moveset
Special Attacks:
Up: PSI Teleport: Ness will do a spinning motion, then vanish like Zelda's Up B. He will then appear where the joystick is headed.
Neutral: PSI Flash: Self-explanatory. Will damage from 20-30% and deal confusion.
Left-Right: PSI Rockin: Ness launches a psychokinetic wave to the enemy, if it does hit the enemy, Ness will make an arm moving animation, and throw him to the floor, deals 10% damage.
Down: PSI Shield: Ness will charge 5 seconds, if its fully charged, it consumes the attacks. EX. If he's hit and supposed to have 20% he will instead have 4%.

Smash Attacks:
Left-Right: Baseball bat, if hit with tip of the bat, the victim will have a fire animation and the "PING!" sound effect will be shown.
Up: Yo-Yo
Down: PK Thunder: Ness will throw two thunderballs to each side.

---
From there, everything is the same. Except the grab release, they fix that. x D

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I never had that much trouble with Earthbound. Maybe I had conditioned myself with other games I had played.

Mother 1 on the other hand...

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Hey. Well this is what I think is going to happen to Ness.
---
Ness IS coming back to SSB4
Why? He's getting an appearance to the VC, not Mother 2, but Earthbound. Plus, Earthbound was somewhat succesful, why not add him again?
---
Fanmade Moveset
Special Attacks:
Up: PSI Teleport: Ness will do a spinning motion, then vanish like Zelda's Up B. He will then appear where the joystick is headed.
Neutral: PSI Flash: Self-explanatory. Will damage from 20-30% and deal confusion.
Left-Right: PSI Rockin: Ness launches a psychokinetic wave to the enemy, if it does hit the enemy, Ness will make an arm moving animation, and throw him to the floor, deals 10% damage.
Down: PSI Shield: Ness will charge 5 seconds, if its fully charged, it consumes the attacks. EX. If he's hit and supposed to have 20% he will instead have 4%.

Smash Attacks:
Left-Right: Baseball bat, if hit with tip of the bat, the victim will have a fire animation and the "PING!" sound effect will be shown.
Up: Yo-Yo
Down: PK Thunder: Ness will throw two thunderballs to each side.

---
From there, everything is the same. Except the grab release, they fix that. x D

Happy first post!

 

[ScottSan]

@MrFuzzyPickle: Mother 2 IS Earthbound 1 (the game with Ness). Earthbound wasn't successful the first-time around on the SNES in the States because people were too busy playing FF and Dragon Quest, and a lot of people didn't like the system that was Mother/Earthbound (yet). I don't know how the sales went for the re-release of it though (on the VC), I'm sure it sold quite a bit, considering a lot of people are now REALLY into the Earthbound/Mother series.

Also, I like your move-set! Some things don't really add up, but it's pretty good. As long as you keep the Dair as his foot spike (or whatever it's called), then I'm all set.

 

[MrFuzzyPickle]

@ScottSan I meant Mother 3, sorry xD. It would also make good publicy about Ness' return to WiiU's VC.
And thank you! I meant to add another things, but I kind of didn't have any ideas. Heh;

 

[ScottSan]

Don't worry about it, lol. I also agree; it would make better sales (even if just by a small margin).
Welcome! I really liked the inclusion of PSI Rockin', maybe that should be his new Final Smash? Instead of just having the EXACT same thing as Lucas, except for different spread-directions >.>

 

[NessOnett]

that's because brawl ness was overall better than melee ness. IMO.

well, they COULD give him his melee F-smash back, that or switch the knockback between ness's f-smash with Lucas's f-smash (the sticks knocknock is ridiculous >.>) his Fair in melee also had more knockback on the last hitbox and also sends them the right way, but they should keep the range it has in brawl.

Well that is the problem with opinions. I for one see almost no redeeming qualities to Brawl Ness. The only thing it had going for it was it was in Brawl, an inherently floatier game, which aided him. His kit in and of itself was a step backwards...IMO.

Personally, I compare to melee Ness because I know melee Ness. I am of the opinion Brawl was a travesty of competitive games(well all games honestly), and since kits and balance are discussed mostly around the competitive aspect of the game...I think melee needs to be used as the basis of SSB4, and we should take cues from there. Like how every other game franchise who has a dark horse game(Fire Emblem, Deus Ex, Zelda, etc) tends to start their next game off two games before and pretend like the middle one never happened.

 

[grizby2]

...I think melee needs to be used as the basis of SSB4, and we should take cues from there. Like how every other game franchise who has a dark horse game(Fire Emblem, Deus Ex, Zelda, etc) tends to start their next game off two games before and pretend like the middle one never happened.

im pretty sure they already took Brawl's engine as the starting point for the next game if im not mistaken (not saying it was for the better/worst), making some changes that favor both sides of melee and brawl as development moves on.

...I really liked the inclusion of PSI Rockin', maybe that should be his new Final Smash? Instead of just having the EXACT same thing as Lucas, except for different spread-directions >.>

its better than having the same exact landmaster though

 

[[Corn]]

Well that is the problem with opinions. I for one see almost no redeeming qualities to Brawl Ness. The only thing it had going for it was it was in Brawl, an inherently floatier game, which aided him. His kit in and of itself was a step backwards...IMO.

Personally, I compare to melee Ness because I know melee Ness. I am of the opinion Brawl was a travesty of competitive games(well all games honestly), and since kits and balance are discussed mostly around the competitive aspect of the game...I think melee needs to be used as the basis of SSB4, and we should take cues from there. Like how every other game franchise who has a dark horse game(Fire Emblem, Deus Ex, Zelda, etc) tends to start their next game off two games before and pretend like the middle one never happened.

Honestly the one thing that hurt Ness the most in Brawl was his grab release.
He basically was buffed overall and all of his air attacks has nearly no ending lag if done correctly. I personally find him loads of fun especially his double aerials, absorption cancel, and his general fluid movement.

But I would rather not use Melee's engine myself and seeing the one already shown, it is clearly like Brawls. Nothing will ever live up to the Meleeism that exists right now anyways and it doesnt have to regardless.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

But I would rather not use Melee's engine myself and seeing the one already shown, it is clearly like Brawls. Nothing will ever live up to the Meleeism that exists right now anyways and it doesnt have to regardless.

Yeah, I'd much rather they try and create something new and unique instead of trying to recreate Melee. All Smash games have different flavors thus far, I want this next game to be unique too, the day they begin simply copy and pasting engines and call it a day is the day the franchise becomes a lot less interesting. I'm also very pleased with how they're trying to find a speed in between Melee and Brawl.

Also, your signature keeps reminding me how much I want Ness to not go into helpless state after his PK Thunder is gimped

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Also, your signature keeps reminding me how much I want Ness to not go into helpless state after his PK Thunder is gimped

That doesnt work in melee

 

[MasterOfKnees]

That doesnt work in melee

Man, dude, that was such an unfair punch in the gut

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'd like to contribute to the discussion of my main man Ness, and to the Mother series representation in general.
Ideally, Ness and Lucas would both return for Sm4sh and have their specials reworked to be less cloney, the rest of their moves are different enough.
I could see something like this happening:

Ness:
B- PK Flash: Same as before, perhaps made to be easier to connect.
UpB- PK Teleport: PK Teleport would work with Ness spinning rapidly in the air and then exploding into whatever direction you aim the attack.
SideB- PK Rockin': Replaces PK Fire, works with the same principal, however is a stronger attack with a wider vertical range that no longer traps enemies.
DownB- PSI Magnet: Same as before, no changes needed.
Final Smash- PK Star Storm: Another move with no needed changes.

Lucas:
B- PK Freeze: Same as before.
UpB- PK Thunder: Same as before, but can be used multiple times in the air and only results in a helpless animation if you manage to connect it into PKT2.
SideB- PK Fire: Same as before.
DownB- PK Ground: A double sided attack that shoots up large dust clouds that can trap enemies similar to Ness's PK Fire.
Final Smash- PK Love: A giant flash of light that hits everyone on screen in an instant.

Spoiler

And on the unlikely note that we get a third Mother rep, I'd hope it would be Ninten.
Ninten:
B- PK Beam: A long range beam attack.
UpB- 4thD Slip: Reappears above his location, when used on the ground it is a quick dodge to either the left or the right.
SideB- PSI Brainshock: A strong hitting move that traps enemies for a second and flips them around for quick disorientation.
DownB- PSI Shield: A shield that blocks any energy attacks and lessens the blow of other attacks.
Final Smash- I can't think of anything at the moment.

 

[grizby2]

I'd like to contribute to the discussion of my main man Ness, and to the Mother series representation in general.
Ideally, Ness and Lucas would both return for Sm4sh and have their specials reworked to be less cloney, the rest of their moves are different enough.
I could see something like this happening:

Ness:
B- PK Flash: Same as before, perhaps made to be easier to connect.
UpB- PK Teleport: PK Teleport would work with Ness spinning rapidly in the air and then exploding into whatever direction you aim the attack.
SideB- PK Rockin': Replaces PK Fire, works with the same principal, however is a stronger attack with a wider vertical range that no longer traps enemies.
DownB- PSI Magnet: Same as before, no changes needed.
Final Smash- PK Star Storm: Another move with no needed changes.

Lucas:
B- PK Freeze: Same as before.
UpB- PK Thunder: Same as before, but can be used multiple times in the air and only results in a helpless animation if you manage to connect it into PKT2.
SideB- PK Fire: Same as before.
DownB- PK Ground: A double sided attack that shoots up large dust clouds that can trap enemies similar to Ness's PK Fire.
Final Smash- PK Love: A giant flash of light that hits everyone on screen in an instant.

Spoiler

And on the unlikely note that we get a third Mother rep, I'd hope it would be Ninten.
Ninten:
B- PK Beam: A long range beam attack.
UpB- 4thD Slip: Reappears above his location, when used on the ground it is a quick dodge to either the left or the right.
SideB- PSI Brainshock: A strong hitting move that traps enemies for a second and flips them around for quick disorientation.
DownB- PSI Shield: A shield that blocks any energy attacks and lessens the blow of other attacks.
Final Smash- I can't think of anything at the moment.

good movesets to make the specials a bit different.
though I would give ness psi rockin as his finalsmash and not starstorm. pk love and psi rockin are their signature ultimate moves.

you're gonna have to explain how pk love works though. it'll need some balancing, especially if it hits everyone in an instant.

 

[JamesDNaux]

good movesets to make the specials a bit different.
though I would give ness psi rockin as his finalsmash and not starstorm. pk love and psi rockin are their signature ultimate moves.

you're gonna have to explain how pk love works though. it'll need some balancing, especially if it hits everyone in an instant.

I just let Ness keep PK Star Storm because the move is really good, and it does represent EarthBound in general as one of the strongest moves. His PK Rockin' had lower levels, so it wouldn't be an OP regular special. It'd be nice to have Rockin' as his final smash, but I'd be sad to see Star Storm go.

PK Love wouldn't be an instant OHKO, everyone would have to have pretty high percentages or they wouldn't fly very far, so you'd have to rack up the damage beforehand. It'd be a pretty situational final smash that you'd have to work with, not that other characters haven't had OP ones anyway.

 

[grizby2]

I just let Ness keep PK Star Storm because the move is really good, and it does represent EarthBound in general as one of the strongest moves. His PK Rockin' had lower levels, so it wouldn't be an OP regular special. It'd be nice to have Rockin' as his final smash, but I'd be sad to see Star Storm go.

PK Love wouldn't be an instant OHKO, everyone would have to have pretty high percentages or they wouldn't fly very far, so you'd have to rack up the damage beforehand. It'd be a pretty situational final smash that you'd have to work with, not that other characters haven't had OP ones anyway.

oh ok. so like.. PSI Rockin α ,PSI Rockin β ect..
I actualy think that could be a replacement for PSI Flash in some aspects if it doesn't make it as a FS. maybe it could grow from α to Ω the longer you hold B or something.

I can see where your going with PK love, but it would seem kinda odd to have an FS that couldn't kill at mid damage (but that's just me I guess).

 

[JamesDNaux]

oh ok. so like.. PSI Rockin α ,PSI Rockin β ect..
I actualy think that could be a replacement for PSI Flash in some aspects if it doesn't make it as a FS. maybe it could grow from α to Ω the longer you hold B or something.


I can see where your going with PK love, but it would seem kinda odd to have an FS that couldn't kill at mid damage (but that's just me I guess).

That's actually a good idea, didn't think of that. Chargeable PK Rockin' would make a really good Side B.
And not all Final Smashes are guaranteed kills, Meta Knight's does smaller knockback on lower percentages, etc.

 

[grizby2]

That's actually a good idea, didn't think of that. Chargeable PK Rockin' would make a really good Side B.
And not all Final Smashes are guaranteed kills, Meta Knight's does smaller knockback on lower percentages, etc.

ya, the ONLY part of him that was balanced XD

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I already told Sakurai that he isnt allowed to make Ness' upB anything other than PK Thunder.

 

[grizby2]

yeah, I think its best to assume upB will still remain as PK thunder, as to not kill the fun of speculation!

 

[PK-Omelette]

I really wish that (to diversify the kids) one would start with their PK Thunder the traditional upwards direction and the other would be launched below the player. It would make one more useful to use, but force them to use it exclusively in the air. Or perhaps if on the ground, forward in whatever direction the user is facing?

 

[grizby2]

I really wish that (to diversify the kids) one would start with their PK Thunder the traditional upwards direction and the other would be launched below the player. It would make one more useful to use, but force them to use it exclusively in the air. Or perhaps if on the ground, forward in whatever direction the user is facing?

Making pk thunder immediately veer to the side while on the ground could set up good combos. (given the ending frames don't last forever again) I kinda like that.
BUT..
that would be stupid-hard to recover with, considering that the fastest arc toward yourself would angle you DOWNWARDS...
Plus it would take an eternity to get it angled for thrusting yourself upwards. you would have been in the air for awhile, so ness/lucas would have floated downwards a good amount enough to nullify trying to recover altogether really. And if THAT didn't kill you, there's a guy on stage who doesn't like the fact that you're alive.
so pk thunder being launched from below may not seem to be favorable...

guess you could say its a...............

Spoiler

PK Blunder

don't hurt me.

 

[PK-Omelette]

Making pk thunder immediately veer to the side while on the ground could set up good combos. (given the ending frames don't last forever again) I kinda like that.
BUT..
that would be stupid-hard to recover with, considering that the fastest arc toward yourself would angle you DOWNWARDS...
Plus it would take an eternity to get it angled for thrusting yourself upwards. you would have been in the air for awhile, so ness/lucas would have floated downwards a good amount enough to nullify trying to recover altogether really. And if THAT didn't kill you, there's a guy on stage who doesn't like the fact that you're alive.
so pk thunder being launched from below may not seem to be favorable...

guess you could say its a...............

Spoiler

PK Blunder

don't hurt me.

Why would I hurt you? I'm an Omelette (lol jk but you get the point, right?) I prefer to be nonchalant and goofy... if I haven't already given it away. But all kidding set aside, it does have its good and bad points, as does starting with PK Thunder going up (I cannot list how many times I have died as both Lucas and Ness because the opponent either intentionally fell into it to stop my recovery or destroy it as a result). PK Thunder starting below you might actually be the smartest thing to save you if you're knocked back or into the air, or just want to float above someone and they're to far away to use really anything else. That's also why I said I'd prefer if it was only done by one of them instead of both too. Both share horrible disadvantages along with advantages too.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I know this is off topic, but I'm so happy to see so many new members here. If I am in your area and am looking to play Melee I would hope to play with all of you.