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Ness vs Shiek. How bad does Shiek have the advantage?
- Thread starter Smashbros_7
- Start date
ADHD
Smash Hero
Agreeeeeeeeeed
-dMT-
Smash Lord
I don't see how grab release, speed, ftilt lock to 80%, an easy setup to ftilt lock via grab release, non absorbent projectile and it relatively being easy to gimp Ness' recovery doesn't make this a highly favorable match for Sheik...
But I guess I will agree to an at least 70-30 match-up, Sheik favor.
I main Sheik and a friend of mine who I play frequently with, mains Ness. Skilled with him too.
I read this thread pg 1-9 all of it and I must say, the members of the Ness boards really need to face more skilled Sheiks...
But I guess I will agree to an at least 70-30 match-up, Sheik favor.
I main Sheik and a friend of mine who I play frequently with, mains Ness. Skilled with him too.
I read this thread pg 1-9 all of it and I must say, the members of the Ness boards really need to face more skilled Sheiks...
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
70-30 is what I originally set on.
Levitas
the moon
Who's a more skilled sheik? I play ankoku, who's ok.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Not all members. Just a lot of you guys were seriously underestimating Sheik. :D
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Fine, I'll settle for maybe 60-40, but that's it. I have played some good Sheiks and I really dont think she's that hard. And dmtmanga, how do you know that you face many skilled Nesses also? You could be underrating him (which he often is).
Good Sheiks? Off the top of my head, I can only name like, four or five in the nation who even attend tournaments.
ChileNess
Smash Apprentice
"good sheik" "good ness" i acttually try to jump and di toward.... i guess somthing like 70-40 o.o also i never fight a good sheik... 
Or maybe someone needs to face a more skilled Ness. Sheik really doesn't have any KO potential. A lot of it relies on smash attacks. Also, transforming into Zelda to KO doesn't count as a Sheik vs ? because when this happens it's Zelda doing the killing and not Sheik.
This list was created while placing two characters at a time on Final Destination in the middle of the stage without the use of DI. The "--" marks mean I couldn't find any KO potential behind it because it wouldn't land correctly or it means that it's harmless.
Ness:
Neutral:
A: --
Tilt:
U-tilt: 134%
F-tilt: 152%
D-tilt: --
Smash:
U-smash: Frontal 163% Back 142% (This means which way Ness was facing.)
F-smash: 120% 82% is sweet spotted.
D-smash: Frontal 149% Back --
Aerial:
N-air: 144%
U-air: While Sheik was in the air, this kills at 100%
F-air: --
B-air: 110%
D-air: 161%
Special:
B: 46% Charged, 290% Uncharged
Up+B: PKT 292% Grounded, PKT2 Close 31%, near the edge 85%
Forward+B: 388% Since it's combo based.
Down+B: --
Grab:
L/R+Up: 178% Since it's combo based.
L/R+Forward: 771 Since it's combo based.
L/R+Backward: 109%
L/R+Down: 703% Since it's combo based.
Sheik:
Neutral:
A: -- (I don't think jabs kill.)
Tilt:
U-tilt: 194%
F-tilt: 293% Since it's combo based.
D-tilt: 243%
Smash:
U-smash: 146%
F-smash: 148% This will not kill this early if the second kick doesn't hit.
D-smash: 158%
Aerial:
N-air: 160%
U-air: 147%
F-air: 185%
B-air: 170%
D-air: 209%
Special:
B: -- Needles even at 999% didn't kill Ness.
Up+B: 130%
Forward+B: 581% Combo based?
Down+B: -- Transformation is harmless.
Grab:
L/R+Up: 499% All her grabs ask for combos.
L/R+Forward: 537%
L/R+Backward: 714%
L/R+Down: 349%
What the hell? Sheik relies on her SMASH ATTACKS to KO?
If I KO with a Smash Attack, it's either a surprise usmash, a HORRIBLY DI'd fsmash, or at over 200%.
Sheik relies on her ability to edgeguard to KO.
I turn back to you, maybe someone needs to face a more skilled Sheik. Or at least a Sheik player who knows how to actually play Sheik.
If I KO with a Smash Attack, it's either a surprise usmash, a HORRIBLY DI'd fsmash, or at over 200%.
Sheik relies on her ability to edgeguard to KO.
I turn back to you, maybe someone needs to face a more skilled Sheik. Or at least a Sheik player who knows how to actually play Sheik.
Ztarfish
Smash Journeyman
Ness's recovery is so easy for Sheik to edgeguard it's not even funny. Most pure Sheiks will get most of their kills from edgeguards regardless of who they're facing, so the fact that Ness is sitting in the air for a good second and a half before actually recovering makes him prime cut beef for Sheik's hungry bair.
Sorry, I don't fight Sheik, I only made an attempt to try her out for a week. I found myself using smash attacks to kill and when I play as Ness, I hardly use smash attacks. Especially for killing. And you guys make it sound like Ness has the worst recovery. If Sheik's only way of winning, other than transforming to Zelda is edge guarding, then what will you do when there are no pits?
-dMT-
Smash Lord
QFT.
The Ness I play used him in melee and since japanese release of brawl. I mained Sheik in melee.
We're not the best, but I highly doubt we're underestimating the match up...
If you're saying Sheik relies on smash attacks, you might need to look into this more.
More like quoted for what you want to believe. I'll continue trying Sheik out and see if I can rely less on smash attacks. If I can find myself killing people without smash attacks, then I'll go with what you Sheik mains are saying.
Oh, I dunno, use Zelda or switch to a character not hindered by a counterpick stage?
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Easy. Sheik can use aerials to push Ness away, Transform and finish off. Transform to Sheik and repeat the process. Sheik is nasty to face...
Ztarfish
Smash Journeyman
Change to Dedede and CG offstage!
Look, you guys and gals, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just stating what I've gathered up. >_< I don't mean to sound like an arrogant a-hole. And yes, switching to Zelda might be the way to go, and I'd suggest it seeing her lightning kick kills at a decent percent, but this is a Ness vs Sheik, who has more of an advantage. Now I'm not saying Sheik sucks, believe me. I might have her as one of my alts because the first day I was doing pretty good with her in a FFA and I absolutely fell in love with her. So I'll continue playing as her to see if I can kill without smashing so much. I apologize if I made anyone here angry or offended them.
EDIT: Okay, so without my smashes, I found myself playing more defensively than usual... And my opponent left.
Okay, so does Sheik rely more on the ground or is she more aerial? I was fighting Pikachu on Pirate Ship and I was tempted to use Zelda but I didn't. By the way, Sheik has some nice grabs! I was a bit impressed by that.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Try jumping off the edge with a nair out and intercept with the weak hit. You can then double jump from below and fair them. It isn't 100% but it tends to work a lot. Bairs are also effective.
I get 70% of my kills from gimps on gimpable characters. ROB is what gets annoying w.o Zelda. Ness certainly doesn't have the worst recovery, but it isn't hard to gimp either.
I get 70% of my kills from gimps on gimpable characters. ROB is what gets annoying w.o Zelda. Ness certainly doesn't have the worst recovery, but it isn't hard to gimp either.
Well well, I can see how that'd work for Sheik against Ness. R.O.B. is really hard to gimp. Playing Ness, I have a hard time keeping Marth, Peach, Zelda/Sheik and R.O.B. at bay. You know what? I might just go ahead and take this to the Sheik forums since I'm actually enjoying playing as her. I can thank whoever made this topic in the first place. 
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Yea I mained Sheik in Melee, but still after getting over the nerfs...
- Moment of silence please. R.I.P. Needle Canceling. -
... I found the new Sheik to be a lot of fun.
- Moment of silence please. R.I.P. Needle Canceling. -
... I found the new Sheik to be a lot of fun.
Sadly for me I ditched Falcon in Brawl. He was terribly nerfed. Odd thing is is that I never played Ness in the previous games. Once Brawl was announced I started playing Ness in Melee and then Brawl came out and here we are. Anyway it's good that you didn't give up on your main. I guess some play the nerfed characters better than others.
Well it's obvious practice makes perfect. I have a friend who plays a really good Falcon in Brawl. I might have been the one to encourage him. I can't say that's true, but it seems like it. I was still playing as him when Brawl came around, Ness too. But then I started playing Ness more than Falcon for some reason. Anyway whenever I try playing him again he feels weird. His up B is especially weird. It can like crawl from under the lip of a stage. I tried edge guarding with Ness last time and my friend just crawled on by back to the stage.
It's kind of embarrassing, too because my friend lands a Falcon Punch most of the time. Same with the knee.
They shouldn't have touched Falcon. They should have gave him a new skin and kept everything else.
It's kind of embarrassing, too because my friend lands a Falcon Punch most of the time. Same with the knee.
They shouldn't have touched Falcon. They should have gave him a new skin and kept everything else.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Melee Falcon was awesome. He was very fun to play as. His manliness was unparalleled.
Brawl Falcon has a scarf...
Brawl Falcon has a scarf...
Still manlier than Snake, though.
It's safe to say the scarf being on the outside instead of the inside for once pretty much came from F-Zero GX/AX's Blood Falcon. Unless I totally forgot that Blood Falcon wore his scarf on the outside in X.
Brawl`s Captain Falcon is really Rick Wheeler. It explains the nerf in manliness and moves.