Ness Video & Critique Thread

[Eagleye893]

Okay, PIE... I'll give my critiques as I have given to everyone else: EXTREMELY CRITICAL OF EVERY DETAIL!!!!

match1:

early on with the first stock, you shot yourself upward with pkt2... NEVER use pkt near the middle of battlefield. never... unless your opponent is well above you and you can shoot through the platforms. You are just asking to get hit by a huge amount of punishment.

I like the many uairs... but there weren't enough super well placed bairs, IMO.

don't spam nair against characters with good range. Kirby has a good bair, uair, fair, etc. that can easily hit through the few ending frames.

to add on that, don't land with nair... It is my own personal preference, but in the past I was often punished for doing that. Bair and uair have much less landing lag than nair, IMO, for what they do and how well they hit. fair is meh. if you land just right, it is fine. if not, it is terrible. just be careful with what you are landing with. I always use uair and bair, unless there is a rare occasion where I know I'll only hit with the first few frames of fair, which would lead more easily to a dtilt or jab or grab.

FH aerials, but make sure they provide pressure rather than leave you open. If you just go nair from a distance, all you are doing is telegraphing "Hit me with your best shot!" Nair FH needs to be close, then retreating. Fair FH depends on what you intend to do with it. If you are close and use for punish, then move forward or stay relatively constant in the x direction. Bair is approach beginning, move out end... if you plan to follow with something else, then approach just right so that your hitbox connects with his hurtbox at just the right time. Uair FH is okay, but only really for punishing. FH dair is great, IMO... but you need platforms to utilize it.

general:

dtilt some more... dtilt twice then immediate followup. Works so well. in some instances.

jab less than you feel like doing. I hate jab.

ftilt more. it is underrated for punishing

learn the spacing for dashattack precisely. It is insane... NO doubt. If you can place it perfectly, it is near un-punish-able.

I'm going to upload random wifi friendlies over time, so be sure, everyone else, to critique MY vids. I know that I need to get some stuff fixed up.

I'll make notes on the videos with youtube to show where I messed up based on wifi... they are fairly obvious.

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLbyIIJ6iJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taBRCtXdLj0

 

[Dajayman]

I'm still waiting for my critique Eagle, I was looking forward to it.

 

[Eagleye893]

I'm still waiting for my critique Eagle, I was looking forward to it.

What for?!?!?!?

EDIT: DANGIT!!!

I finally uploaded 8 replays I saved from recent AiB ladder matches. Since it's wifi there is lag, so take that into consideration. Here they are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9tPJV2U1Ug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxFN-8BWXKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjQB0bbGLo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viWoKx-vUxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD0QA5jy44I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-GyLeUrKwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMBsmb-uGXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGRIW4qLUg

 

[Chuee]

Dajay didn't upload our ladder match ffffffffffffffff

 

[P.I.E.]

Eagle IMO, I don't see anything wrong with your ness that you didnt point out yourself. If anything, I just had a new idea ( never thought of dtilt->grab) For match one, it helps me get a grip of how to utilize the hitbox of bair and the sourspotted dair effectively ( sick mind game finish btw). It's also genius using the thunder as a distraction to get back to the stage (2:39). For match 2 I admire how well you timed your attacks.


Overall I think your best parts of both videos was the fact that you read your opponent and predicted their moves so well.

 

[Dajayman]

Dajay didn't upload our ladder match ffffffffffffffff

Look at when I posted my videos, like a week before our matches. Our matches are chilling on my Wii, waiting to be converted to mp4s.

 

[Eagleye893]

Ok, dajay. I'm looking only at the ness ones.

When hit by a snake utilt when you have your shield up, and you are near his utilt kill%, never let down your shield or dash. It won't work. Instead either roll back or possibly usmash. I'm not sure on the range of usmash, but it could potentially hit him before he gets another utilt out. Gotta check.

You charged a pkflash and let it go, but followed up in the direction of the pkflash, where he was going towards with the upb. Instead, since he is forced to airdodge or die, expect the airdodge and set up for an ftilt or nair or uair. All should hit in that situation.

More psimag.

Dtilt more.... But not on snake. Only two shots then use something. Against snake, do that and shield. Stops the potential jab or ftilt and you can nair or usmash or grab if you trip.

EDIT: Still watching...

lol@bat against MK. xD

Bad DI first death against peach...

USE PKJUMP!!!!!! PEACH needs unbelievable reaction in order to punish it when she has a turnip on hand... and she can't throw to intercept it.... unless you are midpkjump and she throw-cancel(or whatever it's called)s a roll, which takes extreme foresight and sometimes doesn't hit because of the pkfire bolt..

Never miss an opportunity to grab a turnip... DJC turnips are insane!!!!

Shield more against Wario... Trust me, it works. They like to super pressure with aerials and fsmash.

DTILT!!! it works better than other characters, IMO

DJC THROWABLE OBJECTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS GREAT AT SETTING UP COMBOS!!!!

DAJAY!!!! YOU MISSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE PSIMAG WIND SUPER COMBO ON THE LAVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0:54 on the marth match.

just before your first death in that match, you could've looped the pkt at yourself and gotten a pkt2 toward the center to ensure that you don't die... just saying.

dtilt people if they spotdodge and you are closeby. it mostly leads to a grab or nair.

punish his falco upb and fantasm with nair. it works a lot and you can see it coming almost all the time... the upb you punish after the fire, btw.

did that OMAR guy lag a lot? I swear i played the exact same guy and smoked him...

otherwise, okay.

 

[Chuee]

Dajay
Upload our 2nd match.
You have to.

 

[Neon Ness]

Shield more against Wario... Trust me, it works. They like to super pressure with aerials and fsmash.

Bitebitebite.

I didn't even watch the video. I just like Bite and dislike generalizations.

I actually don't see Warios pressuring w/ fsmash that much though. Must be watching the wrong videos...

 

[Eagleye893]

Maybe I'm forgetting everything... Or maybe my recent experience with lag abusing wifi players is messing with my proper judgement.

Either way, I agree with you, neon.

I've gotta watch a couple higher-up wario mains to see what it is...

I think I meant to say something along the lines of know when to shield and immediately OoS something. The attacks of wario are fairly telegraphed or initiated early, so you can get a good idea of what is going to happen if you look closely. Don't keep your shield up, as I was dumb enough to say before, but instead keep powershielding and other stuff on your mind, then move around. What I do with my shield is only shield dash or standing shield when I know an attack is coming, then fair, nair, usmash, grab OoS as soon as the possible frames come about to do that. If I don't know, I keep watch while on ground doing random stuff... I need to play someones wario in the near future though... I've gotta refresh my mind on what I was thinking... I know bite is shield destruction, and fsmash isn't as often used, but I can't remember right now.

 

[Dajayman]

All of those matches were on AiB Ladder, so I'm just going to call lag johns on all my mistakes.

And I can't upload anymore things due to not having a computer anymore (using an iPod Touch now, my friend borrowed me his laptop but now he had to return to school in Cali). Sorry Chuee, I can't upload you ****** me on Brinstar and me ****** you on BF.

 

[Eagleye893]

Moar WiFi matches... expect the usual fail on wifi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ShJMOxjm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whJrVJOssWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vSL0M6wVVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrWJdmbd6gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYYpRgAdsE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iapYxPAw8wM

My iPhone takes better videos than my camera... weird.

 

[Neon Ness]

What, more videos? >:V I'll have the OP updated ASAP. It's way behind right now.

I thought Bartolon wanted to do this, guess he forgot or no longer feels like it lol.

 

[Bartolon]

Neon I said, I would update the whole thread in 2011
But I will add the vids to the OP when I come home ;D

 

[Eagleye893]

Hey, can someone critique on those vids?!?!?! or maybe just comment?! I want some feedback.

Moar WiFi matches... expect the usual fail on wifi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ShJMOxjm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whJrVJOssWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vSL0M6wVVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrWJdmbd6gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYYpRgAdsE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iapYxPAw8wM

My iPhone takes better videos than my camera... weird.

 

[Dajayman]

But you're the only critic here Eagle.

I'll look at them later.

 

[Eagleye893]

yes, I'm critic-al of things that other people do, and even more-so of my own actions not involving smash, but I can't really critique myself on these types of things. It's like trying to edit my own papers: I don't notice the flaws that I make while writing, as they seem insignificant to me.

 

[PSI.kick]

i watched the first 3, got side tracked though, nice stuff, realized it was wifi half way through lol.

my only real suggestions (just what i would do) would be to sh nair more, i didn't really see you do it at all until the third game, your aerials started to get a little predictable. just sayin to change it up with some sh's is good every once in a while. I saw you doing this by the third game and i was like *gansta voice* "ye."
lol good stuff though eagle you're way better than me. Everything else seemed to be good, i would say more but that is only if this wasnt wifi lol, (stupid stuff cuz of lag, not gonna worry about it)
good stuff.

 

[Eagleye893]

yeah, a couple of instances where I got KO'd or led myself into a situation to get KO'd, I messed up slightly due to wifi... but I'm not saying that happened a lot.

My reasoning behind using FH nair and less SH nair is because 1.) once shielded, the nair is extremely wide open to be grabbed or hit in general and 2.) It isn't as safe. By using FH, you can cover more distance, get out of opponents possible followups, and even give yourself the possibility of using bair from nair (you see me using that a lot, right?). I like more options. SH aerials are good for racking up damage, but that is only if you can hit with the first hit(s) and if your opponent is at lower percents. Once my opponent gets above a certain point, it is almost detrimental to use SH aerials (the knockback may not allow a followup at all at certain percents, so having FH aerials allows you to cover the distance and try and string things together).
^Just in case there was some confusion. I may be wrong, but that is my preference.

 

[PSI.kick]

yeah i gotcha man, that makes sense.

 

[Bartolon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bou73QW7ufk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4PLkW0Uk8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxYOqRZq3ZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zLb-lBS7WQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lIkcSnQ6Uc

 

[theGecko]

Bart is da bess!

 

[Bartolon]

Love u too meyn

 

[Eagleye893]

YEAH!! BARTO!!! GOT THAT PKJUMP IN THERE!!! AWESOME!!!

I like your ness much better now. The only criticisms I have are picky (not pokey):

more dtilt... freaking dtilt is insane.
You could have been gimped one time when you were offstage, but the opponent didn't see it.
Maybe some slightly better PKfire spacing, but super picky... you were maybe a fraction off some times.

You used FH aerials a lot for defensiveness. Your PKT control was great. You used the ledgestall. Your PKjump was spot on every time and used only as much as you needed. You lasted long on the stocks that needed you to.

I say you're great.... Now time for me to go to tourneys and fail miserably in comparison.

 

[Bartolon]

haha thanks man!
I know about dtilt, it's a great move.
I also have other replays were I used it alot more xD
I even gimped once with it! xD

But thanks =)

 

[Eagleye893]

Double dtilt madness?! I THINK NOT!!

Here's what I do:
Dtilt x2
(75% trip)
Nair retreat,
Pkjump,
Uair,
Utilt/nair,
PKT.

Or
Dtilt x2
(notrip)
Funky wavebounce FH PKfire (always bounces very far back, even from still)
Airdodge,
Dash (attack/grab)
If dashattack,
Reverse>FH Uair
Else if grab,
Fthrow OR Dthrow>dash>RARFH uair.
Else
Shield,
Drop to:
Nair, dtilt, fair retreat, bair, usmash.

 

[Bartolon]

O.O

I think it's better if you don't follow a pattern but just do what's best in a situation ;P
But I guess some set-ups will definitely work though =)

U need some offline matches man!

 

[Eagleye893]

The dtilt x2 work so well on my offline friends too!

But I have a wide variety of different followups to that.

Dtiltx2 > grab/nair/jab/usmash/ftilt/pkt?!/grounded pkfire, and more different things.

 

[P.I.E.]

YEAH!! BARTO!!! GOT THAT PKJUMP IN THERE!!! AWESOME!!!
You used FH aerials a lot for defensiveness. Your PKT control was great. You used the ledgestall. Your PKjump was spot on every time and used only as much as you needed. You lasted long on the stocks that needed you to.

.

Is a PK jump what he did in the second video around 3:54? If so, how would one perform that technique?

 

[Eagleye893]

Yes it is. Note, he cancels the lag of pkfire by using airdodge, thus catching the turnip before it hits him (this is what you want to be able to do, except also with every aerial so you can vary each followup)

To do PKjump is simple in terms of knowing the button presses, but difficult in keeping consistent execution.
The button presses go as follows when you are in the air with your second jump still available:

Jump + SideB (forward)

^The Jump was put first because you must jump in order for it to work. SideB almost immediately follows the input of your DJ, so it is basically a simultaneous press (jump VERY slightly before SideB... so slight that you can't really tell after you get used to it).
Now tips I have concerning this:
DON'T USE IT BELOW 1/2 - 3/4's OF YOUR SH HEIGHT! Only at your highest point after SH'ing can you use Bair immediately after using PKjump. Uair and Fair are somewhat restricted, but not as much as Bair... NEVER use this near the ground, as you will only be able to (hopefully) get an airdodge in before landing.... you have little options the closer you are to the ground before initiating PKjump.
Practice it if you want to use it. It isn't something you can pick up in a short amount of time. It is VERY easy to mess up, especially when playing IRL matches. This also applies to aiming it. IF YOU CAN'T AIM THE PKJUMP PROPERLY, YOU MUST WORK ON IT! The whole strategy of keeping ahead of your opponent depends on hitting at least the shield of your opponent or causing a dodge of some sort.
BE SAFE! Don't spam it... you have options when using it, but the opponent has OoS options, and if you miss their shield or body, you are asking to get hit.

If you really want, try to master the b-reverse'd PKjump and the.... other one.... This allows you to go either direction and shoot in either direction... however, they are difficult w/o bstick (which is why I use them less often... they are do-able w/o b-stick...)

My controller setup for doing PKjump is:
L = jump (y = random...., x = jump)

I've grown accustomed to L as jump... Barto recommends this for other people:
Y = special (x = jump)

It makes more sense, and it would probably be easier to do after getting used to it, but I've seen that too late, and it'd take a while to re-shift.


And to post video stuff, I'll probably update this in a while... I don't know when though... expect 2 months. xD

http://www.youtube.com/user/Eagleye893

 

[PwNaG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bou73QW7ufk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4PLkW0Uk8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxYOqRZq3ZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zLb-lBS7WQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lIkcSnQ6Uc

On your 2nd video @2:00 mark, you Nair'd peach and she fell on her back. A DAS Nair-Fair would have set up a jab lock to a bat. Somewhere in the first video you spiked peach into the ground and could have ground canceled a fair to set up another.

Only watched those 2 videos but you're better than me in all aspects other than setting up jab locks.

Is a PK jump what he did in the second video around 3:54? If so, how would one perform that technique?

No, that is a DJ canceled with a PK fire, it gives forward momentum from the doublejump but not the height. It gives a different angle than the PK slightly. The PK jump give you the ability to lag cancel the PK fire and have a bit of forward momentum. It is pretty common to do this when attempting a PK jump because the timing of the PK jump is so precise.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5BHXGW_MWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv_V-_DjSrY

does this kid still post here?

 

[Eagleye893]

1337-Zero?!?!? I haven't seen him in a while, but he posted in the last month/two somewhere...

 

[Asa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPFWYgd18UA

a friendly, still could use some critique though

much appreciated ^_^

 

[Neon Ness]

LOL I'm really late with this, but I'll go ahead anyway.

Try to be conscious in mixing up your aerial behavior a little more. You would SH aerial/aerial PKF > DJ Fair > descending Dair quite often. Repeating actions like this can get predictable and punished, so be careful. If you think they're on to you, sometimes it's best to just go the other way instead of trying to descend with dair.

First KO was legit, not much else to say there.

Against Luigi try to read when he's going to try a fireball, you might be able to pull off the odd Magnet for some free %, which is always good.

I probably don't need to tell you this but dair's not great for momentum canceling, nair/bair are better. I dunno though, it might've just been a knee jerk reaction on your part. Your PKT use was limited but extremely precise, nice stagespike lol.

Great Ness, hope to see more vids, and maybe even some tourney results in the future.

 

[Asa]

yeah the dair was by mistake :S

so bummed i didn't get the pkt2 at 2:00 Q_Q it was setup perfectlyy

thanks for the advice. could you tell me if there were any instances in my match where i could've used a pkt well?

anddddd tourney resultsss > .> probably won't happen lol unless it's doubles, then i'll f*** s*** up with zss :D

more vids to come though :D

i'll try to get some ness dittos with kennypu when i go back to hawaii lol

 

[Neon Ness]

so bummed i didn't get the pkt2 at 2:00 Q_Q it was setup perfectlyy

thanks for the advice. could you tell me if there were any instances in my match where i could've used a pkt well?

I know ;-; I was so sure you were going to hit with that, it would've been soo perfect.

And no I actually think you did use PKT well, I was just saying you didn't go overboard with it, which is a good thing.

 

[Susi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHHuZ_16EiI

Here you are. I don't really have time to use Smashboards, but... Critique this for me guys.

 

[Eagleye893]

Don't land predictably. That is key. That's why you Tripped so much during the first bit of the match and also why you got caught in lots of comboage.

^to assure this, I use FH aerials... You get everything as followup from nair, uair bair fair are all still awesome, dair can be protected with nair if needed, ... I just like the options. I try to use my DJ as little as possible so that I'm not forced to land as much.
Also, it seemed that you naturally tended to avoid landing on those platforms or tried to land near him... Sure, one time you ended up falling right into nannerz, but it is always safer to allow yourself the possibility to land on platforms when your DJ is used... Also, you get more stuff to do, and airdodging to ground isn't as punishable when opponents are on uneven ground.
When you land, you always want to land as far as possible from an opponent... OoS stuff hurts, grabs, ... Just never good...

LANDING WITH FAIR IS ALMOST ALWAYS A BAD IDEA!!!! it has low potential for combo setups... LOW LOW! like, it's landing lag isn't worth the risk. Stick to super well spaced bairs, uairs, or just using nothing. Bait and punish characters like diddy wish for you to land so close.

Liked the dtilt>nair swiftness... IMO, needs doubledtilt...
NEEDS MOAR MAGNET!!!!!
ftilt? Needs more upward ftilt....
Bair is insane when you can space it perfectly... One of them was, but needs more of it.
UAIR IS UNDERRATED! USE IT A LOT!
SH FF dair... I like it because I'm good at timing when and where... Might need to start restricting it though.





EDIT!!!!:

Random video, but It's sort of cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k9hxIvbGSQ

^my other one had me talking in it... quite a bit.

 

[StarLight]

There should really be some sort of 2011 video thread, but here's some Shaky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4wLL9jgKbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZc0XwZLA34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC6DDe_kG_U