Ness Video & Critique Thread

[kennypu]

LOL derp walk xD

 

[Bartolon]

Lol that isn't hard.

And it's called moonwalking iirc

 

[ViceGrip]

I have a whole bunch for you guys. These were recorded yesterday by Jankanpo.

The first 3 are me Versus Rich Brown. I came soooooo close to beating a ranked player, I just lost track of where my pk thunder was last game, whoops.

the second 3 are me doing a moeny match vs Nexus

The last 3 are me playing my doubles partner for the day Junk. We got 2nd at the tournament and I got so frustrated at the end of the 3rd match that I rage quitted. That's the one and only time I'll do that in a tournament setting. Lesson for me to learn. I shoulda just pulled myself together and made an epic comeback. D3 is so challenging! it's definitely doable because many times I am actually ahead in stock but ehhh, it's so hard for me to keep that lead for some reason. It's probably mostly a mental barrier at this point I need to overcome vs d3.

Me Vs Rich Brown tournament set

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPNIz0PIwxA
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH6NgTnvm7s
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uqX-1pcxGA

Me Vs Nexus Money Match

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phqsi9o8aR4 up angled ftilt kill 1st stock! use it!
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTuAL1Nc-r4
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVFf3GgJI58 this one I kill with an up angled ftilt, i recommend that everyone use it, it's very strong and fast and I get a lot of my kills that way now.

Me vs. Junk tournament set

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAdSSezSiY
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUgMJftsNvY
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMwL4theLE0 I rage quitted out of frustration but I apologized soon after and I won't be doin that again :/

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I really want to play a good D3 because I love that matchup.
It seems easy...

 

[ViceGrip]

lol heck no. Shaky and I agree that d3 is Ness's hardest matchup w/ probably marth coming next. Seibrik counterpicks d3 vs shaky (seibrik is number 1 florida mk main).

 

[Eagleye893]

D3 is a ***** to fight. I agree with that.

Ok, vice... Imma critique you... even though I know you are consistently better than me in tourneys and ****, I gotta give my word. Some things appalled me....

You vs. RB...

WHY ARE YOU LANDING SO DARN PREDICTABLY?!?!?!?! OLIMAR MAINS WANT YOU TO LAND WHERE IT'S PREDICTABLE ENOUGH TO GRAB OR SMASH!!! Near the later matches you adjusted that though.
auto-canceled fair to dtilt is much better when closer ranged... not only do you have a great chance of tripping, but you can follow up with TONS of things, if you have great reading and reaction abilities. It doesn't require a trip to get the grab or the nair or the usmash sometimes.
Loved the great early kills that helped you recover all the stupidly-lost percentage. GJ with that.
Near the end, RB seemed to fear you with that first game. His play shifted from waiting out your mistakes to rushing away and avoiding everything. If he kept up his first playstyle, it might not have hindered him as much.
3:29 .... WHY NO FTILT?!?!? He wasted his DJ, so you could've gotten him offstage at a fairly good spot... even tilted upward would've been good.
Way to pile it on at the last bit of his last stock first game.

2nd game, 0:39 wasn't really a PKFire opportunity... dtilt was WAY better then. I won't argue, because RB was being dumb with his DI out of the pkfire.
SDI out for oli's uair... never down. Gotta SDI the **** outta that ****!
got a bit greedy with pkt at 0:47... better to just go PKT2 out and regroup at that point. He could've probably even hit you with a pikmin and still got you.
good 1st kill..... but too much percent. that's why you lost. can't get that far down. if it was 40, you would've been fine.
good jab lock... I can't do it, so no complaints other than end with jab combo if you see him do anything like standing...
Bad DI last death..
2nd game was bad... I don't know exactly why... probably because you focused too much on getting back and let several good oli-combos on you.

3rd game....

I'll watch later.

 

[ViceGrip]

wow thanks for the critique eagle, I really appreciate it. whenever I ask people for advice they never help me, they tend to just say something like 'eh, you did good, I dunno what else to add.' Yes you are correct about the dumbly landing near olimar, I try not to but i'll work on that more. It's similar to fighting diddy, if you land predictably they **** you. I've been trying to learn the reverse magnet thing in the air but i don't know how to do it : (. It's also challenging because you kind of have to approach olimar because you can't safely camp w/ fire and thunder very often. I'll practice sdi'ing out of uair, I wasn't sure exactly how to do so. I can jab lock pretty well at this point but I'm not sure exactly how I messed that one up, probably just mistimed it and had the 2nd hit of the jab combo accidentally mess it up. If you want to get better at jab locks I highly recommend practicing jab locks on jumping computers on fd. Make sure you can do it all the way across fd 100% of the time without messing up. Once you have that down when you are in a match EVERY time you use dair you should be thinking that it is a possible jab lock opportunity and get ready to jab them where you think they may be after the dair.

 

[Eagleye893]

wow thanks for the critique eagle, I really appreciate it. whenever I ask people for advice they never help me, they tend to just say something like 'eh, you did good, I dunno what else to add.' Yes you are correct about the dumbly landing near olimar, I try not to but i'll work on that more. It's similar to fighting diddy, if you land predictably they **** you. I've been trying to learn the reverse magnet thing in the air but i don't know how to do it : (. It's also challenging because you kind of have to approach olimar because you can't safely camp w/ fire and thunder very often. I'll practice sdi'ing out of uair, I wasn't sure exactly how to do so. I can jab lock pretty well at this point but I'm not sure exactly how I messed that one up, probably just mistimed it and had the 2nd hit of the jab combo accidentally mess it up. If you want to get better at jab locks I highly recommend practicing jab locks on jumping computers on fd. Make sure you can do it all the way across fd 100% of the time without messing up. Once you have that down when you are in a match EVERY time you use dair you should be thinking that it is a possible jab lock opportunity and get ready to jab them where you think they may be after the dair.

No prob. I would give more critique, but I don't know what to say sometimes. I'm extremely nit-picky with myself, which is why I notice these sorts of mistakes... the only way I can get anywhere near perfection with my high rate of controller failure is to maximize my offensive and defensive strategies in any match. But now that the analog stick isn't all screwed up (the rubber thing fell off, which makes it a lot easier to move around), I've been much more accurate... IRL. I hate wifi... it delays my reactions just enough.

Thanks for the advice about the jab lock... I just feel that it is fairly easy to SDI out of it at just the right time and mess it up a lot. I often get to do that to other people who have me in a lock. Thus, I feel it easier just to lead the opponent just enough with the lock so that they think they are safe and punish with bat or usmash or whatever. But I still need to get the locking techniques down... I miss SOOOOO many opportunities to lock my opponents down... I'll be sure to practice that, since I don't have work for 3 days!!!! xD

 

[ViceGrip]

The safest thing to do is to jab them 4 times (forcing a standup for sure) and then bat (or whatever you want, I prefer charged bat) however it's a goal of mine to perfect my jab locking so that I can jab lock a real person all the way across a stage like fd even when they are trying to sdi out like crazy. Thus I probably forfeited some damage against rich brown by just jabbing continuously but I want to get better and the best practice is in a tournament match I feel. That's cool your controller is better now without the rubber thing haha. You are also right about the missed ftilt, I don't know why I was just standing there, just a mistake it looks like. Vs olimar you can usually dair and then jab before he has time to grab due to his grab being so slow and that's what I kept trying to do in that match but I would mis-space sometimes. I'm a slow learner but I've been trying since October to get good at the jab lock and I am not sure If i'm at shaky's level yet but at the same time I don't know if his goal is to jab someone allll the way across a flat surface. it's much safer not to but I think it would be really cool if you could consistantly take someone to the edge of a stage and then tipper bat.

 

[Eagleye893]

I say jab them till you get maybe like 10-20% and then either time a grab or fsmash is better. you could proabably also get a sh ff dair on time and get some damage.... better to get the more percent rather than risk the kill that might not be there. unless of course you CAN kill them, but need a little more distance to the other end... but you can also just dash and time a pivot grab so that you bthrow.... oh well... I say less times is best, but focus mainly on whether or not it is worth your risking it... if you can get the percent another way, do it.

Speaking of dair, i once saw a topic where you could theoretically dair/uair someone with lagless landing and pull an epic PKT2 setup by looping the pkt around the opponent.... is that "combo" actually a combo, or has it been disproven or impossible to get perfect?

if impossible to get perfect, I think we've found our setup... xD

 

[P.I.E.]

HEY! i finally made a video! its not very good quality but its a video all the same
Ill probly add another sometime today but this ones form my first few months with ness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqHqtHHIHxI


i think i know what eagles talking about im pretty sure ive done it before but it wasnt a combo i just caught him with the tail twice around and hit him he was alrdy in the air by himself i think it was on diddy but idr

 

[Chuee]

lol heck no. Shaky and I agree that d3 is Ness's hardest matchup w/ probably marth coming next. Seibrik counterpicks d3 vs shaky (seibrik is number 1 florida mk main).

I remember Shaky saying IC was Ness' hardest MU =/

 

[ViceGrip]

IC? what? Ness can break them up pretty well and once nana is offstage it's an easy spike. Ness can't avoid getting grabbed as easily as meta can but he still is in the air most of the time and has tools to protect himself from it. Pretty sure D3 still his hardest matchup. It's doable, but very challenging, you need to have perfect spacing for most of the match.

 

[P.I.E.]

can someone critique my vid? ( post #51)

 

[Eagleye893]

Imma have to say, PIE, based on that video there isn't much to critique.

Having said that, I still feel there may be parts of your game that wouldn't work too well against other opponents. It was EXTREMELY apparent in that match that the wolf was a complete idiot.

If you want the most out of critique, I advise taking a close match with you and another person and upload it instead. No offense, that match was ****, but It doesn't show your overall game flaws as well as other matches can, which is why i say this.

but, things that I did notice:
often attempted pkt2 hits. not always going to happen and will very often leave you extremely vulnerable.
had a potential jab lock at 0:40.
not enough psi magnet.
needs dtilt madness...
fthrow and uthrow are more useful overall. more damage. dthrow only if it will put the opponent back into a pkfire.
lagless pkfire plz (FH and pkfire as you press jump.)
.... needs more notable failed opportunities.

 

[ViceGrip]

Agreed w/ eagle, that wolf was completely terrible. like, just as bad as my little sister would be on the release day of Brawl kind of terrible. Upload closer matches, or matches with opponents that have at least a semblance of intelligence to allow us to critique your vid. Can't say much except that there should be more short hop fairs.

 

[P.I.E.]

lol thx guys, i didnt know if ishould put normal matches cuz i didnt wanna look to bad, but yeah tht wolf turned into a persistent marth main just because of that match. lol ill upload a closer one.


im about to go to another doubles tourney ( just a bunch of friends) so ill try to get in a few 1v1 frinedlies with my friend michael, the problem is we usually take to long to make replays but ill just get someone to record during the match. btw what does FH stand for?

 

[ViceGrip]

Don't worry yourself about looking bad, when people only have matches online where they own you know that another side is not being shown. We won't judge, we're just here to help if we can.

 

[Eagleye893]

Don't worry yourself about looking bad, when people only have matches online where they own you know that another side is not being shown. We won't judge, we're just here to help if we can.

Ditto... me moreso than anyone though... I'll critique you till your brain hurts! xD

 

[ViceGrip]

Yea by 'we' I primarily mean eagle

 

[Bartolon]

Marth isn't THAT hard. Falco > Marth

 

[ViceGrip]

falco? really? I can see it but I hope it's not because of the chain grab to spike.

 

[oOTjayOo]

Falco isnt really that hard after the Chain grab is over.

 

[Eagleye893]

What are you guys talking about? Falco is EASY even with the cg. Just keep slightly distanced pressure w/o getting in too close. Pkfire from a distance, fair spacing, pkt on a platform, psimag when easily predicted lasers. He'll be forced to go away from taking the easy percent way out after a while and you get the upperhand early on.

 

[Chuee]

What are you guys talking about? Falco is EASY even with the cg. Just keep slightly distanced pressure w/o getting in too close. Pkfire from a distance, fair spacing, pkt on a platform, psimag when easily predicted lasers. He'll be forced to go away from taking the easy percent way out after a while and you get the upperhand early on.

I think you're forgetting that Falco has a reflector.

 

[Yink]

Take a Falco to Japes if it's legal. It's the funniest thing ever.

 

[Chuee]

Take a Falco to Japes if it's legal. It's the funniest thing ever.

.................................................................

 

[Kole]

haha have fun with taking falco to japes

 

[ViceGrip]

Japes hasn't been legal in awhile here but I would usually beat falco on that stage. Magnet forces him to approach and any advantage he gets from spikes there you have the same advantage, so eh.

 

[Yink]

Japes hasn't been legal in awhile here but I would usually beat falco on that stage. Magnet forces him to approach and any advantage he gets from spikes there you have the same advantage, so eh.

This is what I meant...I don't think I've ever lost to a Falco in 1v1 on Japes. (at least when it was legal to go there)

 

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

.................................................................

This. I can't stand Japes, haven't played there in awhile though, so maybe it's just from past experiences.Lol, I remember back in melee, the ness glitch, when you picked a level 9 ness and took it to Japes, it would kill it self 1st stock every time.

 

[kennypu]

mistakes mistakes... its ok i hope you guys enjoy it :D
Kennypu vs DEHF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0BAaW5zRA0

 

[Dajayman]

Aww Kenny, you had that first game...
Grab release s*** really sucks for Ness. You really have to avoid getting grabbed. :/

 

[kennypu]

yeah which is why i was on the platforms the whole match, but i guess after the first 2 kills I wasn't thinking properly "/

 

[Chuee]

1st two kills
I lold.

 

[Eagleye893]

KENNY?!?!??! WHAT HAPPENED?!?!?!?

*facepalm*


I know what it is... you didn't spam enough magnet/dtilt.

jk. now for honest criticism.


0:58 was a PERFECT PKT2 opportunity. Seriously. He went blindly with that fsmash. You take a wider loop and BOOM!!! KO.
You ran into lots of his attacks near the middle. IDK.
DON'T JAB TO PUNISH!! GAH!!! I HATE IT!!! always nair/dashattack/usmash/dsmash/dtilt/ftilt. NEVER jab to punish. fsmash is too predictable, so that's a no... example? 1:29.
NEVER APPROACH FROM ABOVE WITH A FAIR UNLESS YOU KNOW 100% THAT YOU HAVE HIM!!!! If you think you have it, you don't... just lay back and be safe in that case. NEVER go for the unsure fair. They need to be coming out of airdodge or spotdodge or roll or movelag. No exceptions. Anything else gets you killed.
1:48 you had two free laser absorptions... but you had to be quick AND move off the platform to be safe... It seems like a bad idea, but the wind will help in most cases.
After the CG at 3:10 or so, you should've used PKT as soon as you had used jump. I'm pretty sure you should've been going for the relief pwnage PKT2 at that point. Don't try to be too safe with it. If they are moving upward, use pkt the INSTANT you see a jump from them. Any upward movement is a small gap for you to get in a lucky PKT2 back to the stage or even into the guy. You could've baited him to try and dair you by FF'ing and then PKTing, but that would've been more risky after having wasted the DJ.

Second game... I'm not gonna say anything. CP brinstar. If not, go to a place that ISN'T a neutral. Seriously. Falco beats you on many stages. He DOESN'T win (particularly) on brinstar, Lylat (I like that stage now.), or a few random stages I can't think of right now. FD is suicide. BF is also. SV is like FD with a single platform that doesn't help due to the lasers. It moves enough to make your distancing yourself useless. YI(B) is dumb. PS1 is actually VERY okay. I like PS1 a lot. If it is a neutral, it is my fav. Pictochat... I CP that and change my character to Kirby. They won't know what to do. I can camp my ledge and he can spam lasers. I'll eventually win. Especially if I get him offstage on the right side. Halberd is okay, but the flat part favors falco. Frigate... ABSOLUTELY NOT WITH THAT RIGHT SIDE!! Castle siege... Not exactly favoring with many parts. RC... I like it, but other people don't for some reason. IDK... I guess you want to avoid a possible CG or bad spike that occurs at every corner.

Bottom line about the stage.... Beware of what you counterpick.

Actual game... WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PSIMAG?!?!?! YOU LOST IT!!! -.- Ugh...
Don't be too hasty with your approach. You were going in too quickly. You played well in the safe match for the first game.
PKT'ing predictably.... Ugh...
You had it and lost it. You've gotta keep a set mentality. When you had the 2stock lead on DEHF that first game, You've gotta keep playing that way. Don't even think about what you need to do. Just do what you did. If anything, taunt at a safe distance to get on his nerves even more. You want him to rush in and be aggressive, AKA unsafe. You want to be playing cool and keeping your distance while getting in good attacks here and there. You have to play off of what you are doing to the opponents mind. If you are up, they are furious. Fuel the fire and fight the fire with the right counter. If your opponent is being super safe, be super safe in return... but only if you're ahead like you were first game. You can afford it, your opponent can't. They need the percent and stocks to take a win. You can time them out or force their approach.

What I think you need to work on as a ness main is remembering your moves... every one of them. Dtilt is too pro, ftilt could've saved you a good punishing option in several places...

I know you're a good ness, but If you slip up like you did, you need a miracle to get back. Never slip up. Keep the constant pressure. Always be thinking of every possibility to help yourself the most. Never be unsafe. If you get yourself into a bad situation, ness doesn't have a great time getting out of that.

 

[kennypu]

nice response eagleeye, I appreciate it. as for the cping, he banned brinstar, and I wasn't really feeling RC at the time. I really like smashville, just i played...stupidly. after the loss of the 1st match, i just got mentally thrown off. as for not jabbing for punishes, I guess might try that :3. I usually jab because I can really easily follow up after (usually jab -> read spot dodge dair, or read their counter act and distance pkf, etc) and I don't have to decay my other moves. oh well, ggs, DEHF is good xD.

 

[ViceGrip]

Kenny, why was DEHF there? I've played DEHF about every two weeks for the past month and I do about the same as you haha. Nice pkt2 kill btw. Falco isn't too bad imo but LARRY'S falco is.

 

[Eagleye893]

Dang... I've gotta get back to tournaments. It's the only way to show everyone a legit game of my playstyle.

On that note, considering it was Larry, you did well.... GAH I meant to say DEHF. But there is always stuff to be improved upon. With a loss, you need to think of whatever you can change that will ease you into a win.

Keep this mindset: always think that you can do better. Don't be satisfied until you can 3-stock your opponent. If it's a more difficult player, you might never get to that, but if you improve your game incredibly by working out every single kink, you are much more able to take on anyone.

 

[kennypu]

Kenny, why was DEHF there? I've played DEHF about every two weeks for the past month and I do about the same as you haha. Nice pkt2 kill btw. Falco isn't too bad imo but LARRY'S falco is.

he's entering a tourney here :3