Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Yink]

Why is Ness a lower then Lucas on the Tier list?

Is it because Lucas recovery is better?

I'd like to believe that's one of the major reasons. He's more gimpable than Lucas is (to me anyways), and they both get grab released into so many bad things.

From what a friend told me (he knows what he's talking about), the way they made the tier list is someone puts in a lot of info on each character, and this happened at a specific point of time. At that point of time, Lucas was viewed as better than Ness.

Do I think Ness is better than Lucas? Yes. Do I think he does better than Lucas in tournaments? Yes.

I think Ness should be higher than Lucas because you can get past the recovery problems if you're good. That being done, he has better matchups as well.

 

[orange/xd]

Lucas is a little better than Ness as a character IMO, he's really good at pressuring and killing, and isn't super easy to gimp. Sadly, Ness is. Ness should be higher on the tier list though because he has way more tourney representation.


Ness though.

 

[Uffe]

Smash: Ness > Lucas
Games: Lucas > Ness

 

[Chuee]

Lucas > Ness
Accept the future.

 

[Yink]

Lucas > Ness
Accept the future.

You mean accept the past. ;P

Don't worry I love you anyways.

 

[rpgfighter]

If this has been asked already I am sorry.

But what character can do that release grab into certain move thing on Ness?

Oh and Ness>>>>Lucas.

And with Mother games in general.

M2>M3>M1

Real talk. I was playing EB on my SNES yesterday. :F

 

[Chuee]

Nobody knows Lucas' full potential. Suddenly some Lucas main will come out of nowhere and start ******. Then people will know which ones better :D

 

[Uffe]

I've seen what Lucas can do. If Irsic doesn't count as a rapetastic Lucas, then maybe I haven't played a good enough one. If you're talking about Tyr, I've seen him. Ness is just a better character because he doesn't have the amount of bad match-ups like Lucas does. If you want to go into discussion about Ness vs Lucas in Brawl, I see them as a 50:50 match-up. They're not entirely different, same goes for their best and worst stages.

But what character can do that release grab into certain move thing on Ness?

Just about every character in Brawl has a grab release on Ness. Some people don't act like ***** and use them on us, though. So I don't have to write out a whole story of who has a grab release on us, Ness, Lucas and Samus don't have a grab release on us. At least I don't think Samus has one on us. There are possibly a few others who don't, but I haven't found them yet.

 

[Chuee]

Ness having better matchups isn't entirely true.

 

[orange/xd]

Ness gets gimped sooo much.

 

[Uffe]

Ness having better matchups isn't entirely true.

Why do you say that?

 

[Chuee]

Let's compare
Mario- Lucas does better
Luigi- Neither
Peach- Neither
Bowser- Neither
DK- Neither
Diddy- Neither
Yoshi- Ness does better
Wario- Neither
Link- Lucas does better
Sheik- Neither
Zelda- Lucas does better
Ganon- Lucas does better
TL- Neither
Samus- Neither
Pit- Neither
IC- Lucas does better
ROB- Neither
Kirby- Lucas does better
MK- Lucas does better
D3- Neither
Olimar- Neither
Fox- Neither
Falco- Lucas does better
Wolf- Neither
Falcon- Lucas does better
Pika- Neither
Squirtle- Lucas does better
Ivy- Neither
Zard- Lucas does better
Lucario- Neither
Jiggz- Neither
Marth- Lucas does better
Ike- Lucas does better
G&W- Neither
Snake- Ness does better
Sonic- Neither

hmmmmmmmm

 

[Yink]

I can't agree with all of that.

For starters, look at your MU list vs OUR MU list. Look at your Negatives and ours, and because you only have one advantaged one at this moment, assume what ones would probably be beneficial to you.

We have 19 bad MUs (I'm including ones that I'm assuming will be against us also, like Squirtle and Charizard and I've not posted the Diddy etc yet)

YOU on the other hand, have 14 as it stands right now, soon to be 15 thanks to ZSS. You're weaker against Ness so that's another to rope in there (yeah I'm going there by saying Ness does better than Lucas in MU sense). Not to mention all of your MU isn't completed yet...but I'm betting ours will look slightly better than yours.

But...this isn't for this thread. Lets talk about this through AIM or PM or whatever.

 

[Delta-cod]

I smell a challenge.

 

[Chuee]

It has nothing to do with having an advantage against a character. It just means Lucas does better in the MU than Ness does.

 

[Lightosia]

Let's compare

Marth- Lucas does better

Whaaat??

 

[Chuee]

Yeah, Lucas does better against Marth.

 

[Levitas]

Chu, let's not get off topic here. This is about ness's matchups.

if you want a nice place to talk about lucas's matchups, I'm sure you can think of somewhere.

 

[Uffe]

What I remember it being.

Mario- 55:45, Mario
Luigi- 50:50
Peach- 55:45/60:40, Peach
Bowser- 55:45, Ness
DK- 55:45, DK
Diddy- 55:45 (That's what I still see and what the Diddy boards said before)/60:40, Diddy Kong
Yoshi- 55:45, Ness or 50:50
Wario- 60:40, Wario
Link- 55:45, Ness
Sheik- 50:50, IIRC/55:45, Sheik
Zelda- 50:50, IIRC
Ganon- 65:35, Ness
TL- 55:45/60:40, TL
Samus- 60:40, Ness or 50:50 (I play this match-up a lot)
Pit- 55:45, Pit or 50:50 (Shaky and I think it's one of the two)
IC- 55:45, IC
ROB- 60:40, R.O.B.
Kirby- 50:50
MK- 60:40/55:45 (Seeing what FOW did to three MK's)
D3- 60:40, D3
Olimar- 55:45, Ness or 50:50
Fox- 60:40, Ness (The last time the Fox boards said)
Falco- 55:45/60:40, Falco
Wolf- 55:45, Wolf
Falcon- 55:45, Ness
Pika- 50:50 or 55:45, Pika
Squirtle- 60:40, Squirtle
Ivy- 50:50/55:45, Ness
Zard- 60:40/55:45, Zard
Lucario- 55:45, Lucario
Jiggz- 50:50/55:45, Ness
Marth- 60:40, Marth, 70:30 (With the death grab)
Ike- 50:50/55:45, Ness
G&W- 60:40, G&W
Snake- 60:40, Snake
Sonic- 50:50

 

[Eagleye893]

@ the marth problem that everyone talks about, I say death grab isn't that big of a problem. Just pick a stage with slanted everything and stay on the lower ground.... PK Fire doesn't help at all anyways, so you may as well adjust to a worse problem.

 

[Chuee]

I disagree with some of those.
FOW beating a few MK's only proves one thing. It was quite obvious that Tyrant had no clue what he was doing in the MU. Then next time they fought, Tyrant won.

 

[Uffe]

I disagree with some of those.
FOW beating a few MK's only proves one thing. It was quite obvious that Tyrant had no clue what he was doing in the MU. Then next time they fought, Tyrant won.

Three doesn't equal to Tyrant alone.

 

[thesage]

Anybody who ever claims pk fire is useful should not be listened to. Scrubs at this brawl tournament I went to could di out of it before my endlag was finished. Don't rely on it ever.

 

[Bartolon]

^
I disagree. Learn to space ;D

 

[Chuee]

I agree with Sage. It's a terrible move. It's absolute **** when they can DI out of it and is really punishable.

Uffe: The only other notable MK he beat was Judge who probably had no clue at all about the MU. Stuff like this is really common among low tiers. That's why people shouldn't get all hyped up when a low tier player beats a pro. He only took one game off m2k.

 

[Bartolon]

That's why you need to have FH PKF in your game it isn't as easy to DI out of that =)

 

[Chuee]

FH PKF? Ness' aerial PKF is much worse.

 

[Levitas]

Sage is absolutely correct about PKF. It's horrendously slow to the point where anyone who can't react could take a bat to the face w/ more ease, has low range, and doesn't keep anyone who's trying stuck for long unless they're playing as a fatty

 

[CarVac]

I'm learning to love PKT more than PKF. The sound the tail makes is so delicious...


...I don't want to know why I think it tastes good.

I'm also trying to learn to throw in un- or slightly-charged PK Flashes, too, though that's not as natural for me.
Where do people put that? I find the uncharged knockback to be too little to be of much worth as a juggler.

 

[Eagleye893]

I'm learning to love PKT more than PKF. The sound the tail makes is so delicious...


...I don't want to know why I think it tastes good.

I'm also trying to learn to throw in un- or slightly-charged PK Flashes, too, though that's not as natural for me.
Where do people put that? I find the uncharged knockback to be too little to be of much worth as a juggler.

Good... I hate pkf in vbrawl....

Uncharged pkflash can sometimes lead straight into a fh nair/uair if you time it correctly... And even more with a slightly sh'd pkflash...

 

[Bartolon]

Meh you guys don't know yet how good FH PKF is if spaced well =)

 

[MrsSaturnandWatch]

^
PGN has been telling me to do it more, didn't think it was useful until recently where Ness_Success did this sexy combo wif it on me.

Let's all convert to FH PKF

 

[Chuee]

Hi I'm mk.
SH AD --> Uair.

 

[Uffe]

Uffe: The only other notable MK he beat was Judge who probably had no clue at all about the MU. Stuff like this is really common among low tiers. That's why people shouldn't get all hyped up when a low tier player beats a pro. He only took one game off m2k.

That's news to me. Anyway, using a high tier character, they shouldn't really have a problem winning against a low-tier. If the whole thing about not knowing the match-up really mattered, why hasn't a Falcon main gotten far? And before you even consider Ally as one doing so, he didn't use Falcon alone.

 

[Chuee]

Falcon has terrible rep. The only character I can think of that has worse rep than Falcon is Jiggz.

 

[orange/xd]

I use FH PKF followed by aerials alot

 

[Chuee]

I spam grounded spaced PKF because nobody knows how to deal with it :D

 

[Levitas]

I use PKF, either grounded or aerial, then get rushed and hit because it's a really laggy move

PKF should be used when your opponent is already forced into an action that makes them at the very least unable to retaliate (ie recovering or committed to something like landing)

 

[Uffe]

I'm sure there is a way of lag canceling aerial PKF. I also think there is a possibility to buffer PKF on the ground. I'd say I'm sure, but I'm not going to claim that. Anyway, getting your opponent with PKF in the air is good for when they don't expect it. You've also got to realize that PKF goes pretty far even on the ground. It may not get them trapped, but a hit is a hit. It's only a matter of time before your opponent is in danger of getting KO'd. To use PKF close up to your opponent, that's stupid. But I'll admit that I do that sometimes, though not intentionally.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Out of curiosity. How do you do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2XKg9x6oJE#t=0m44s