10charlimitmyass
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Ness Play Styles~ How effective is yours?
- Thread starter oOTjayOo
- Start date
^With the case of PK Flash I'm mainly thinking that it removes R.O.B's option of hitting Ness as he gets back on stage because Ness can hide inside the hitbox. Flash forces him to get back on far away from Ness, giving us the advantage because we can reflect and absorb projectiles. I'm less worried about it hitting than I am about Ness getting hit.
Now I'm getting carried away, we have an MU discussion for these things.
I believe there was talk of D-smash. Strictly speaking, the moves is downright monstrous when used correctly. It's my favorite of Ness' smashes: It can kill, it ruins rollers, and hurts players who misjudge its range and speed.
Now I'm getting carried away, we have an MU discussion for these things.
I believe there was talk of D-smash. Strictly speaking, the moves is downright monstrous when used correctly. It's my favorite of Ness' smashes: It can kill, it ruins rollers, and hurts players who misjudge its range and speed.
xoxokev
Smash Lord
personally, i don't think dsmash is very good. on the other hand, usmash is amazing! charging hyphen smash is good
^It's biggest problem is that it's situational. U-Smash has much more versatility and can be used more often. In the situations that D-smash can be used in, however, it outright destroys.
Why don't I just offer a little something here...
U-Smash:
-OOS Properties
-Has two hits that combo together on most characters
-Can be hyphen smashed
-Reverse hyphen smash is very useful in some situations (Either a delayed hit, or you want to hit someone that's chasing you)
-"Shields" against some moves (Ex: Toon Link's Dair will "bounce" on the yo-yo, allowing ness to punish once the move ends if the move was used at a high enough height)
-Can be hung off the ledge
-An easier to use yo-yo spike
-Has very weird physics on some stages (Ex: It gets dragged over the umbrellas on Delfino if it's used underneath them)
D-smash:
-Has a deceptively large hitbox (I think this is less applicable for U-smash)
-More rewarding surprise factor than U-smash (If they weren't ready for D-smash, they're taking the full blow, while with U-smash they can still get lucky or DI and avoid the second hit)
-Has two hits that almost always combo (I have seen people DI out of the first hit)
-More kill strength than U-smash (Not sure about this one)
-Ending part of move guards Ness (Unlike with U-smash where it is behind him, though this can be worked around)
-More range than U-smash (This is the important thing, I've seen many drop their shields thinking it wont hit them when it will)
The main focus is to switch them up a lot. A reverse hyphen U-smash looks a lot like a D-smash and vice-versa. Both can be extremely useful, but D-smash has more rewards, while U-smash can be use more often. They're both great kill moves fresh, and few people realize this.
Edit: I guess this is the "All Yo's" Playstyle XD
Rating: 3/10
Why don't I just offer a little something here...
U-Smash:
-OOS Properties
-Has two hits that combo together on most characters
-Can be hyphen smashed
-Reverse hyphen smash is very useful in some situations (Either a delayed hit, or you want to hit someone that's chasing you)
-"Shields" against some moves (Ex: Toon Link's Dair will "bounce" on the yo-yo, allowing ness to punish once the move ends if the move was used at a high enough height)
-Can be hung off the ledge
-An easier to use yo-yo spike
-Has very weird physics on some stages (Ex: It gets dragged over the umbrellas on Delfino if it's used underneath them)
D-smash:
-Has a deceptively large hitbox (I think this is less applicable for U-smash)
-More rewarding surprise factor than U-smash (If they weren't ready for D-smash, they're taking the full blow, while with U-smash they can still get lucky or DI and avoid the second hit)
-Has two hits that almost always combo (I have seen people DI out of the first hit)
-More kill strength than U-smash (Not sure about this one)
-Ending part of move guards Ness (Unlike with U-smash where it is behind him, though this can be worked around)
-More range than U-smash (This is the important thing, I've seen many drop their shields thinking it wont hit them when it will)
The main focus is to switch them up a lot. A reverse hyphen U-smash looks a lot like a D-smash and vice-versa. Both can be extremely useful, but D-smash has more rewards, while U-smash can be use more often. They're both great kill moves fresh, and few people realize this.
Edit: I guess this is the "All Yo's" Playstyle XD
Rating: 3/10
Jiffyboob
Smash Lord
Why we talking about ROB so much?
Anyways....Can't alot of ROBs aerials actually can cancel out PK Thunder?
....Minus hitting with tail of course.
Anyways....Can't alot of ROBs aerials actually can cancel out PK Thunder?
....Minus hitting with tail of course.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
Lol well I have to get this down pact So I know what style of play hurts a certain character at a certain time.
I'll try to play some good Robs and see if these things work nicely.
Eagleye893
Smash Champion
I have a better suggestion....
you can keep the styles in terms of moves, but could you possibly also include where the styles are best used, the negative aspects of them, and how often that style should be used?
^these styles seem more like DMC to me.... I played DMC4 and was switching styles like mad, if you mean the above, but it would make much more sense to keep a general mind-style discussion... like alongside the move-style discussion (pointing out in depth where they are best used), make a major category describing the best points to be:
Aggressive
Defensive
Mindgamey
Lure-ing
"sitting and waiting"
ETC.... this was what i was thinking originally when this thread started... If you include that and we continue discussions about that, there will be a great advancement in how ness SHOULD be played rather than what ness can do, cause we all know ness' moves and how to perform them....
except magnets... you guys still need work on teh magnets... (Barto disagrees, but i haven't played him in a while, so he may have improved...)
you can keep the styles in terms of moves, but could you possibly also include where the styles are best used, the negative aspects of them, and how often that style should be used?
^these styles seem more like DMC to me.... I played DMC4 and was switching styles like mad, if you mean the above, but it would make much more sense to keep a general mind-style discussion... like alongside the move-style discussion (pointing out in depth where they are best used), make a major category describing the best points to be:
Aggressive
Defensive
Mindgamey
Lure-ing
"sitting and waiting"
ETC.... this was what i was thinking originally when this thread started... If you include that and we continue discussions about that, there will be a great advancement in how ness SHOULD be played rather than what ness can do, cause we all know ness' moves and how to perform them....
except magnets... you guys still need work on teh magnets... (Barto disagrees, but i haven't played him in a while, so he may have improved...)
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
I could break it into sub categories of playing with each style. Like Playing agressive with pk style or defensive. That could really help imo.
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
My playstyle is an aerial and grabbing game with PK support. Meaning I'll be in the air a lot and I'll do dash grabs on the ground, but I'll throw out some pivot/fh PKFs and some PKTs out there as well.
Depending on which character I'm facing, I'll use more or less pk moves to support my aerials/grabs.
I could also describe my playstyle as being smartly aggressive. Meaning I'll always be trying to pressure my opponents with spaced DAS aerials, pivot/fh PKFs, uthrowing them into PKT juggling and PKT2 setups, and fthrowing them for offstage edgeguarding. Playing campy, which is very possible with Ness, is a bit boring to me and I tend to avoid it. I have tried it and it just doesn't suit me. Besides, characters with better projectiles can outcamp Ness anyways.
Depending on which character I'm facing, I'll use more or less pk moves to support my aerials/grabs.
I could also describe my playstyle as being smartly aggressive. Meaning I'll always be trying to pressure my opponents with spaced DAS aerials, pivot/fh PKFs, uthrowing them into PKT juggling and PKT2 setups, and fthrowing them for offstage edgeguarding. Playing campy, which is very possible with Ness, is a bit boring to me and I tend to avoid it. I have tried it and it just doesn't suit me. Besides, characters with better projectiles can outcamp Ness anyways.
Eagleye893
Smash Champion
You just have to play like me, dajayman... either mind**** them, or Spam PSImag the entire match.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
lol should i leave the character summarys for mu discussion thread?
vandenkill
Smash Rookie
i used to use pk thunder ALL the time, but after a while, it gets too predictable.
i try to constantly change my play style so that it isn't as easy to predict what i'm going to do next.
now, a lot of times when i really don't need to, i jump off the side of the stage and pk thunder recover... while my opponent tries to spike me, and gets owned.
Ness's usmash isn't as bad as i thought it was to begin with,
it and his dsmash (even though they have low priority) both can work well, you just have to know weather or not is will out-range your opponents move... which takes a while to figure out sometimes.
i try to constantly change my play style so that it isn't as easy to predict what i'm going to do next.
now, a lot of times when i really don't need to, i jump off the side of the stage and pk thunder recover... while my opponent tries to spike me, and gets owned.
Ness's usmash isn't as bad as i thought it was to begin with,
it and his dsmash (even though they have low priority) both can work well, you just have to know weather or not is will out-range your opponents move... which takes a while to figure out sometimes.
All out aggressive until I get to the point where if I keep it up I'm gonna get rocked... Fair all day. a lot of grab > U/F throw > PKT. a lot of SH nair, too. Defensive playing just doesn't work for me...
I'm also in the air more than the ground... which is how I've played Smash for... well, ever.
I'm also in the air more than the ground... which is how I've played Smash for... well, ever.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I play a stupidly safe and campy Ness.
I love Brawl.
I love Brawl.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
lol. if you play safe enough with ness u never get grabbed <3
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
I do not play anything like you Eagle, I just don't spam PSI Magnet enough... :/
milesg2g
Smash Champion
idky but i just don't have the patience for this style.
If i did i'd probably place higher =/
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
lol camping with ness only works sometimes. his camp game is not that great.
milesg2g
Smash Champion
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
I always double jump in place so im high enough. His grenades cant reach me. then i start pk thundering. Make sure the head doesnt hit the grenades. Needs moar Tail action on them and save the head for snake.
I also try Aireal Pk fire while retreating. Jump twice while doing it.
milesg2g
Smash Champion
lol well i always think they'll predict that and just dacus to setup some tilts lol.
What I usually do is roll around the nades if they even throw them. The reason I do this is because it tempts them to approach w/ a dacus or ftilt. which sets them up for a pkf to fthrw ftw. But I mean that's just me.
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
I think approaching and getting in Snake's ugly face is the best way to beat him. Snake easily outcamps Ness.
I just hate the fact that his utilt beats a well-spaced fair since fair has a blind spot underneath Ness, but fair beats everything else Snake has.
Throws work nicely on him as well, either a fthrow to edgeguard or uthrow to utilt/usmash/uair/PKT juggling.
PKF also beats his 'nades and DACUS, but it's pretty punishable if it wiffs.
How do all our threads end up being matchup discussions?
I just hate the fact that his utilt beats a well-spaced fair since fair has a blind spot underneath Ness, but fair beats everything else Snake has.
Throws work nicely on him as well, either a fthrow to edgeguard or uthrow to utilt/usmash/uair/PKT juggling.
PKF also beats his 'nades and DACUS, but it's pretty punishable if it wiffs.
How do all our threads end up being matchup discussions?
Eagleye893
Smash Champion
I'd actually say ness is worse off up close... thats just my opinion...
fair doesn't beat everything if the snake is smart enough...
PKFire doesn't beat nades........
What isn't to be said of matchups?
get back on topic!
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Snake easily outcamps Ness, although Ness doesn't do too well against Snake offensively it's better than gettting outcamped imo.
Fair outranges everything but utilt, but obviously you can't just spam fair and win. Any move can easily be beaten if a player is mindlessly throwing it out.
PK Fire a 'nade, it explodes and creates a fire pillar to stop other 'nades. Rinse and repeat.
Fair outranges everything but utilt, but obviously you can't just spam fair and win. Any move can easily be beaten if a player is mindlessly throwing it out.
PK Fire a 'nade, it explodes and creates a fire pillar to stop other 'nades. Rinse and repeat.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
Lol. Uthrow> Uair > Bair
Uthrow> Fair> Rising Fair
Uthrow> Read air dodge> Dair
Ness has no problem what so ever with snake when hes in the air.
Destroy him there.
I would say Ness has the best options when he does Uthrow on Snake than any other character.
He has the tools.
Dair is slow enough to read a air dodge
Fair is great to rise.
Bair can Kill
Uair can set up some moves after its done once and kill.
Problem is....Getting the grab in. I say its pretty hard to grab snake with Ness.
Try to power shield the nades and wait till Snake pulls out a nade in his helpless state.
Dash grab uthrow.
-Dont pummel
-Dont dthrow
-Dont bthrow unless hes at a percent u know hes going to lose a stock in.
-Fthrow when close to the ledge.
Also dont bthrow when your back facing the ledge still
If you stale bthrow that can cost you a stock
Uthrow> Fair> Rising Fair
Uthrow> Read air dodge> Dair
Ness has no problem what so ever with snake when hes in the air.
Destroy him there.
I would say Ness has the best options when he does Uthrow on Snake than any other character.
He has the tools.
Dair is slow enough to read a air dodge
Fair is great to rise.
Bair can Kill
Uair can set up some moves after its done once and kill.
Problem is....Getting the grab in. I say its pretty hard to grab snake with Ness.
Try to power shield the nades and wait till Snake pulls out a nade in his helpless state.
Dash grab uthrow.
-Dont pummel
-Dont dthrow
-Dont bthrow unless hes at a percent u know hes going to lose a stock in.
-Fthrow when close to the ledge.
Also dont bthrow when your back facing the ledge still
If you stale bthrow that can cost you a stock
Except for the matchup discussion...
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Why discuss matchups in a matchup thread when we have our matchup discussions everywhere else?
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
lul. this does sorta seem like a MU Discussion but its play styles.
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
I am describing my playstyle when I face Snake.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
I have never seen Ness try to grab snake except me lol. Uthrow and Dthrow are pretty nice options imo.
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Are you kidding? Dash grab is pretty much Ness' best ground approach, why wouldn't I use it vs Snake?
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
Dair is useful vs him?
milesg2g
Smash Champion
I agree w/ him
A lot of snake mains claim the MU is underrated. But they still believe it's their MU.
That's because they have Grab advantage, and they have snakes tilts that follow right after the grabs.
Out camping Snake is where the MU really gets sticky. Not because Ness can outcamp Snake or Snake can outcamp Ness. Simply, because Snake can't play his normal way. Any character that messes up another characters default playstyle is a problem. That's why it's best to camp w/ snake because it messes up his game plans and tries his patience.
In most cases if snake is annoyed by his projectiles not hitting he'll approach w/ a dacus or dash attack. Which leaves you open for a pkf setup.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
I think snakes cant really say they have an advantage because they can grab us. Its pretty hard to grab ness overall. It would be much easier for DDD or Marth to grab us but not Snake. Grab to uptilt. Its gona be stale if they overuse it. Grab release to Ftilt = DI from it. I believe that Ness vs snake is not really that hard at all. It has to be snakes favor but not a really big advantage im seeing
milesg2g
Smash Champion
Yeah Snakes agree the MU's 55-45 Snake
but that hasn't been officially stated lol.
And it's not because Snake can easily grab Ness, it's because of the GR Snake has on Ness.
I actually argued once that the MU was in Ness' favor 55-45 Ness lol no I think I said 60:40Ness lol. Idk but I was really sure that Ness won the MU lol.
But we can't say so yet. Ik I main Ness. And for a while I ONLY Mained Ness. Now I main Him and use other characters. However Snake is 1 of my fav. MU's for Ness.
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Snake is an odd guy. I'm still trying to figure out how to effectively deal with Snake, if it's possible.