Ness haters

[Andinus]

I was a Lucas main in Brawl. I didn't use and did not really like Ness until this game. That being said I love maining him now. His killing power and medium weight remind me of my Brawl Lucas. (Still wish he'd come back though).

Anyway I guess my play style with him seems to piss people off online, be it for fun or for glory, I always seems to get under someone's skin in every play session I have. I get called spammer a lot, and one guy even messaged me with is name tag with "stop using Ness" I thought it was funny, but anyway, if I keep winning a lot, some people start giving me flak and targeting me or just killing themselves when I'm on their team. I find it amusing.

Do any other of you Ness users get crap like this from people a lot?

Do you think other players just hate Ness since he can seem really op with some of his moves?

Also what does everyone think of spamming?

Personally, I think if you can't figure a way around someone throwing pk fires and pk thunders at you, or what ever kind of spam from any character, then you actually just kind of suck and need to get better rather than complain to somebody about the means in which they kick your butt. I mean I've ran into plenty of players that know how to deal with some of my strategies, and then I'm forced to change tactics. So if some people can deal with it, I think it's dumb to get frustrated with someone's play style. I think people who complain about spamming just aren't as good as they think they are and are looking for excuses, and need to get better. Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[Earthbound360]

Online salt is delicious. Their fault for being bad. I just sorta wished there was a good messaging system on wifi. I always love getting hate mail from my opponents <3

I had this one guy change his name to a certain 3 lettered word that starts with an F before. I got a kick outta that. He tried to tier ***** me too by picking Diddy, then Rosalina (which he tried nothing but grav pull gimps). The salt was real.

 

[Waael]

Online salt is delicious. Their fault for being bad. I just sorta wished there was a good messaging system on wifi. I always love getting hate mail from my opponents <3

I had this one guy change his name to a certain 3 lettered word that starts with an F before. I got a kick outta that. He tried to tier ***** me too by picking Diddy, then Rosalina (which he tried nothing but grav pull gimps). The salt was real.

WHO WOULD BE MEAN TO EB360? Yeah, I actually had things like this happen to me too. But it wasn't because of PK Fire Spam. Luckily they wouldn't attack me personally but my character in tournaments. There was this one situation where this guy yelled things like NESS IS SO STUPID, CHEAP, ********, during our games and I closed both games with PKT2 mindgames lol. Wouldn't non Ness mains be hyped about watching PKT2 kills too though?? Its way more interesting than a backthrow

 

[Uffe]

The best compliment I got from someone was, "Your Ness provokes me." Like EB360, I've had people switch their characters to Rosalina & Luma, as well as Fox, or any character with a reflector. Still ended up winning.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Online salt is delicious. Their fault for being bad. I just sorta wished there was a good messaging system on wifi. I always love getting hate mail from my opponents <3

I had this one guy change his name to a certain 3 lettered word that starts with an F before. I got a kick outta that. He tried to tier ***** me too by picking Diddy, then Rosalina (which he tried nothing but grav pull gimps). The salt was real.

Someone once sent me a friend request with a pleasant message on how much he enjoyed playing me. :>

 

[XCounter]

All the time. I can rarely play online or offline without someone saying "I hate Ness", "Ness is so cheap" or "all Ness players just spam". Just tempts me into doing the things people hate more frequently.

I feel like in this game more than any of the others in the series, people just hate on the better characters for no real reason. The only real good characters I don't see hate for are Yoshi and Pikachu, and that's probably because they're underused compared to the others.

 

[Ranias]

I've been accused of camping and playing too defensively in online tournaments. One 3ds tournament I was in had Tomadachi Life as a legal stage. I'll try to be on the bottom platform every time if I can help it.

People I play offline and face-to-face often accuse Ness of being too good, PK Fire/Thunder or Back Throw being broken, etc.

 

[_clinton]

If people would stop running into the ****y PK Fire or learn how to get out right I would stop using it.

 

[Luco]

Someone once sent me a friend request with a pleasant message on how much he enjoyed playing me. :>

I've had a few people add me, others have been like 'GGs' and in one case I versed a rival Ness main that used the tag 'Iloveu' and I felt so happy. Actually that Ness main was Techtonio (found him randomly on FG mwahahaha) but still

 

[Andinus]

WHO WOULD BE MEAN TO EB360? Yeah, I actually had things like this happen to me too. But it wasn't because of PK Fire Spam. Luckily they wouldn't attack me personally but my character in tournaments. There was this one situation where this guy yelled things like NESS IS SO STUPID, CHEAP, ********, during our games and I closed both games with PKT2 mindgames lol. Wouldn't non Ness mains be hyped about watching PKT2 kills too though?? Its way more interesting than a backthrow

This is one of the reasons I prefer team battle, since it is much easier to land those ever so satisfying PKT2s. I really love it when my partner distracts them, I can come in from almost directly above them, nail them both and watch them go flying in opposite directions.

The best compliment I got from someone was, "Your Ness provokes me." Like EB360, I've had people switch their characters to Rosalina & Luma, as well as Fox, or any character with a reflector. Still ended up winning.

Yeah I get the tier, or match up switches a lot too, but being an avid team battler it almost always makes no difference, my favorite though is when they switch to Ness suddenly, but then it's kind of obvious they don't main him; and get owned. Like people really believe, "oh this guy is just winning because Ness is good or cheap or whatever", and then they can't use him effectively at all. Ah good times.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Worst I get is people usually just switching to characters that they feel are "better" than Ness based on the infancy-at-best tier lists floating around. Rosalina, ZSS and Fox seem to be what most of these people default to after a few losses. Admittedly, sometimes it works (still can't really deal with good Rosalinas all that well), but most of the time it doesn't, as the majority of the time you can easily tell that the player isn't really used to the said "upper-tier character" and is only picking it because they "heard it countered Ness".

As for messages and hate mail, they only make the game more fun IMO.

 

[neomadgic]

They hate us cause they ain't us

 

[Mrawesome48]

The Ness salt is real Same for Captain falcon. If people learned the match-up against Ness people wouldn't be complaining. Ness is a two trick pony imo. Pk fire->down throw-Fair-Fair or pk fire->Back-throw till death. My biggest piece of advice i would give to people struggling is learn how to shield the thunder headbutt and pk fire

 

[Noa.]

They hate us cause they ain't us

Haters gonna hate

Ainters gonna aint


And bad players are trash and just complain about **** lol.

 

[_clinton]

One downside to people thinking Ness is top tier is that they get all up an arms when you want to talk about buffing him in certain ways.

 

[Earthbound360]

I've gotten my share of GGs and adds out of good sport, but I just love it to death when I can just PKF them to the point of them ragequitting. If I know they can't get out of it, I spam it even harder.

Git gud ppl.

 

[Meccs]

As somebody who has been using Ness for nearly 16 years (albeit as a secondary in Melee) now, my thoughts on the people who are just now whining about Ness being "cheap" (the most likely reason of which is because they suck at Smash Bros.) is that they can go f**k themselves.

 

[Uffe]

The Ness salt is real Same for Captain falcon. If people learned the match-up against Ness people wouldn't be complaining. Ness is a two trick pony imo. Pk fire->down throw-Fair-Fair or pk fire->Back-throw till death. My biggest piece of advice i would give to people struggling is learn how to shield the thunder headbutt and pk fire

You can really say that about several characters in this game. A lot of characters have their bread and butter. And really, if PKF > d-throw > fair x1000 is something that is easy to avoid, it should be just that, easy to avoid. Of course you don't really need PKF to grab. It's good because it works and why stop if it works, right? And back throw has been nerfed. Back in previous Smash games, that thing killed better. Fortunately, Ness has a lot of kill options at his disposal. I mean, if getting grabbed is something your opponent is afraid of, that just leaves them open for other kill moves.

 

[Uffe]

One downside to people thinking Ness is top tier is that they get all up an arms when you want to talk about buffing him in certain ways.

Oh what I would do if PKF and PKT worked the same as Robin's El Fire and El Thunder.

 

[_clinton]

I think I've listed my Ness wish list, but I'll list it again:
-ftilt given a spark added to it, which would buff the range some
-dtilt given a spark added to it that makes it have a 100% trip rate now, move comes out on frame 4 to make up for that
-usmash given a very small range increase, letting it hit players 100% of the time (instead of just sometimes) on battlefield's lower platforms
-fmsah comes out on frame 18 instead of like 21, thing is still on the slow end of fsmash attacks btw.
-uair has less end lag in general by just a few frames
-bair comes out on frame 8 instead of frame 10
-fair comes out on frame 7 instead of frame 8
-nair turned into N64 version cause I liked the look of that more than just a spin (pretty sure it would work the same some, maybe have a longer lasting hitbox though I guess)
-dair comes out on frame 18 instead of 21, making it easier to short hop cancel
-PK Flash is given a control buff, that lets you move it up and down more (still moves slow of course)
-PK Fire is given a aim buff, in the same way Link can aim his boomerang
-PSI Magnet is given a min damage restore range of 10%, which really wouldn't do much for characters like Mario who is already restoring like 8% but is more for characters like Fox, who's lasers only restore like 2%. PSI Magnet is given the ability to absorb food like the good old days (restoring Dr. Mario and G&W stuff to the list, but adding new stuff like Diddy's peanuts and bananas), Magnet is also fixed in some areas (Lyoid Rocket for example I'm pretty sure the default hit that blows up was an error, and same with Bowser Jr Meckakoopa)

Oh and because I hate most of the custom moves for several characters including Ness:
-Rising PK Flash becomes PK Rockin, a DK style charge attack that mimics Lucas' usmash animation
-PK Freeze is turned into a Zelda Din's Fire type of projectile, With the same knock back and kb growth it has now (as in almost none)

-PK Fire Burst is turned into Paralysis, which mimics the bolt still, but gives a mid power Zero Suit Samus stun gun animation on hit.
-PK Bonfire is turned into PK Ground, which is mimicking Lucas' dsmash animation, only with the ability to ground foes now (or spike them if they are in the air) and also do great shield damage as well for having next to no range.

-Rolling PK Thunder is turned into Tornado Teleport, which is like Zelda's Farore's Wind, in that when Ness reappears he can KO as well.
-Lasting PK Thunder is turned into 4th-D Slip, a super safe (you can't be hurt), super quick travel teleport move that lets you have full control over where you fly (as in no cool down after). Has no offense ability at all though.

-PSI Vacuum is turned into Telepathy, which mimics Shulk's Vision in that anyone affected by this is slowed down, but Ness can choose what he will do while its going on (cause I'm not sure if characters can just mimic counter animations if they don't have a counter).
-Forward PSI Magnet is turned into Power Shield. It works like a shine on activation (gives super armor as well) and also reflects projectiles in general instead of absorbing them. Can cancel the move on hitting anything.

It is crazy really, people go up in arms when I talk about this anywhere else. Like I don't want to change a lot of custom specials around in general as well.

 

[Noa.]

Ness is already In a great spot. He deserves nerfs more than buffs honestly. If a game were to be more balanced, a very small need to Ness would have to be made.

The only buffs I could justify would be to useless moves. No character should have and useless moves. I would probably go across the board and make sure that every character's move had at least some unique purpose.

I feel like the only moves that fit this category are dair, dtilt, and pk flash. I would welcome any changes to make those moves have a purpose. It sucks having useless options.

 

[Luco]

Actually it was quite hilarious, a little while ago when I was playing wii U online Ness often, I remember going up against people that I'd beat and then they'd switch to Ness and just beat me for whatever reason.

I still believe they were flukes (I'm not too scared of another Ness, I'm quite good at edge-guarding myself ) but gee wiz sometimes people surprise you

By the way, in this game, characters don't necessarily have even match-ups with themselves anymore. Customs can mean that Ness can +1 himself (imagine forward PSI magnet against regular PK Thunder, or even PSI vortex to throw their positioning off!).

That's so weiiirddddd. Soz, just had to mention that haha.

 

[Andinus]

Actually it was quite hilarious, a little while ago when I was playing wii U online Ness often, I remember going up against people that I'd beat and then they'd switch to Ness and just beat me for whatever reason.

I still believe they were flukes (I'm not too scared of another Ness, I'm quite good at edge-guarding myself ) but gee wiz sometimes people surprise you

By the way, in this game, characters don't necessarily have even match-ups with themselves anymore. Customs can mean that Ness can +1 himself (imagine forward PSI magnet against regular PK Thunder, or even PSI vortex to throw their positioning off!).

That's so weiiirddddd. Soz, just had to mention that haha.

People switching to Ness on me happens a lot. So much so that I think they really don't even use him they just wanna try and prove they can play as him better than I can, or wanna try and prove that I'm only winning because Ness is cheap and anybody can win with him. It usually never works out in their favor

 

[Luco]

People switching to Ness on me happens a lot. So much so that I think they really don't even use him they just wanna try and prove they can play as him better than I can, or wanna try and prove that I'm only winning because Ness is cheap and anybody can win with him. It usually never works out in their favor

It usually doesn't work on me either; but those two times it did happen were hilariously funny, I was laughing at the end and was like "well okay you got me this time "

Actually usually when an opponent wins against me I cheer for them, I love it when we're having close games and then they win one all of a sudden, it's like really fun. :D

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I use Ness as a secondary, so I like to switch game 2 for the ditto (my favorite ditto in the game)

 

[Earthbound360]

If I'd wanna buff anything, I'd at least start with FIXING moves that don't work the way they're supposed to. Things like dsmash hitting only once for that really weak, no knockback hitbox, dtilt not comboing into itself when rapid fired, and PKT2 not bouncing consistently on walls.

I personally think Ness could use a few buffs to keep himself afloat in high tier (because I'm thoroughly convinced he's destined to land in mid tier). After the fixes, I'd wan't PKT2 not to stop when hitting something, and for fsmash and dair to be useable at least. Not great, but useable.

 

[Andinus]

If I'd wanna buff anything, I'd at least start with FIXING moves that don't work the way they're supposed to. Things like dsmash hitting only once for that really weak, no knockback hitbox, dtilt not comboing into itself when rapid fired, and PKT2 not bouncing consistently on walls.

I personally think Ness could use a few buffs to keep himself afloat in high tier (because I'm thoroughly convinced he's destined to land in mid tier). After the fixes, I'd wan't PKT2 not to stop when hitting something, and for fsmash and dair to be useable at least. Not great, but useable.

They bring my Lucas back and all those things would happen. Except it would be Lucas... But I did love Lucas' fsmash.. It came out so fast..

For me for ness I'd like to see Pk flash move quicker and get a lingering hit box, but as a trade off loose a bit of power, I mean still kill when hit at 90% > though.

 

[yoshi8984]

I find it funny how people complain that he's considered to be too good, yet the first 3 games he was like low tier lol. Give him his time to shine!

Also as for buffs, I want his Yo-Yos to be unique again by being able to hit while charging, U-Tilt having more horizontal range (seriously I feel the nerf with its horizontal range lol) and F-Tilt actually being a decent "last resort" KO option like Brawl. Bat range should've also stayed the same, and Dair should return to its former glory.
#AskingTooMuch xD

 

[PMMikey]

I do wish his dair and dtilt would be buffed in some way. I always accidentally press dtilt and it just dosn't help.

 

[_clinton]

Ness is already In a great spot. He deserves nerfs more than buffs honestly. If a game were to be more balanced, a very small need to Ness would have to be made.

I have the idea that nerfs should almost never be made unless really needed or they wouldn't truly ruin a character. Look at Rosalina, Luma's respawn time was moved to like 13 seconds and it really hasn't changed the character as a whole (compared to other things though...)

 

[Uffe]

I'm in the agreement that Ness needs no nerfs. If you want to see what happens to Ness when nerfed, go play Melee. I'd rather not deal with that struggle again. Also, I hate that Ness' up smash doesn't linger like it did in Melee/Brawl. I think I know why it was made not to this time and that's because the Yo-Yo Glitch, but still, it was good for edge guarding.

 

[Earthbound360]

The thing is, Ness' changed charge mechanic benefits dsmash but hurts usmash. In order for it to be a win-win, they would have to be different, which I don't think Nintendo would do.

 

[Andinus]

The thing is, Ness' changed charge mechanic benefits dsmash but hurts usmash. In order for it to be a win-win, they would have to be different, which I don't think Nintendo would do.

I'm fine with what they did with his yo-yo. The fact that I used to see his smash attacks as useless is one of the reasons I did not like playing as him before. And I must say I really like his down smash now, it's not just that is has some killing power, but the awkward angle it sends opponents flying is its best feature I think.

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm fine with what they did with his yo-yo. The fact that I used to see his smash attacks as useless is one of the reasons I did not like playing as him before. And I must say I really like his down smash now, it's not just that is has some killing power, but the awkward angle it sends opponents flying is its best feature I think.

This so much. It sends people off so horizontally, it's delicious.

 

[33percentgod]

I came into this thread after encountering many a Ness today in For Glory.

I hate fighting Ness. Not in the sense you're thinking though. I don't feel the character is "cheap" or spammy, or anything like that. I hate fighting Ness because it's literally the same play style from everyone. It's so BORING to me to play against Ness. I feel the same way about Kirby. When I see them pop up I just want to SD both my stock to just avoid playing this boring match. It's PK fire followed by a rush. That, or thrown off the stage followed up by the person mashing forward air. It's just a boring, calculated match that has 0 variety and not fun to play.

I never play Ness so I have no idea what the obsession with forward air is by you guys.

So yes, I hate playing Ness, but not because I'm "mad" because I always lose or think it's a cheap character, it's just a boring matchup.

 

[Funen1]

While Ness is certainly not the only character subject to that, in that sense I would agree with you. I know from playing other games for a long time what supreme boredom can do to one's motivation. Some characters certainly are more prone to such cookie-cutter playstyles for one reason or another (limited options, or one set of options that's vastly easier to perform than others), though I'm not experienced enough with Smash 4 play to really judge this myself. Most I can suggest when playing that kind of Ness is take what you know about the matchup, refine it, and experiment from there.

Also F-air is great primarily because of the stage control it gives as part of a combo. Repeated F-airs after a throw aren't guaranteed either, so if you can get them to whiff, find some way to punish or otherwise get out of harm's way.

 

[Andinus]

I came into this thread after encountering many a Ness today in For Glory.

I hate fighting Ness. Not in the sense you're thinking though. I don't feel the character is "cheap" or spammy, or anything like that. I hate fighting Ness because it's literally the same play style from everyone. It's so BORING to me to play against Ness. I feel the same way about Kirby. When I see them pop up I just want to SD both my stock to just avoid playing this boring match. It's PK fire followed by a rush. That, or thrown off the stage followed up by the person mashing forward air. It's just a boring, calculated match that has 0 variety and not fun to play.

I never play Ness so I have no idea what the obsession with forward air is by you guys.

So yes, I hate playing Ness, but not because I'm "mad" because I always lose or think it's a cheap character, it's just a boring matchup.

The question is.. is it effective? If not then they should be trying new tactics. In any case, play some team battle you should see some more variety there.

 

[NGUY (guitarstage)]

i remember when i did the 0 to ko combo to my brother the hate floated around me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_UgPAMR-G4

 

[_clinton]

Funny stuff

 

[Uffe]

The thing is, Ness' changed charge mechanic benefits dsmash but hurts usmash. In order for it to be a win-win, they would have to be different, which I don't think Nintendo would do.

I actually like how d-smash functions in this game. I wish u-smash would still hit more than once when the opponent was behind you. If your u-smash gets blocked at the start up, the full 360 won't make a second hit which is kind of stupid.