ness discussion

[weedwack]

Yea, tough matchup. Out dashed on the ground, out ranged in the air.

 

[Yobolight]

Yea, tough matchup. Out dashed on the ground, out ranged in the air.

Its tough but fun, because it forces you to use interesting spacing and the combos aren't bad.

 

[Battlecow]

ness does OK against falcon

pk fire has uses

 

[Aipom]

I felt as though Ness' B-Up, if executed successfully, destroyed everyone else. Also, it got the best distance out of all three games when he used it

 

[Xlorm]

Can someone post some good Firo videos? Or post videos of a couple of the top ness players in the world?

 

[Han Solo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHPQQeLhTR8

34 minutes of Ness action.

 

[Yobolight]

There are alot of Ness styles out there. Ranging from Firo's really technical Ness to Peek's super creative Ness.

Peek:
Match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvMzNveung
Combo vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_SxBZou4JA

Firo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMLR-t8o7Bk

There are also some good pocket Nesss like Ballin4life and Dext3r.

Dext3r:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVgWkmZ-XU

Ballin4life:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ba11in41ife/videos?query=ness

 

[firo]

There are some other good ness players but unfortunately not that many who play offline and record. As for my videos, the best are probably the most recent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMLR-t8o7Bk (already covered by Yobolight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgtNfAsLRI0

(about 20 minutes of ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHPQQeLhTR8

If time allows, I'd like to get some more ness videos this year at apex.

 

[Olikus]

does peek still plays?

 

[The Star King]

He does not

Waiting warmly for Sheer's newly hatched Ness to become good

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I felt as though Ness' B-Up, if executed successfully, destroyed everyone else. Also, it got the best distance out of all three games when he used it

it can be used vs. some recoveries as similar in the other smash games using the edge of the pk thunder (but not to such an extent, especially compared to the brawl version)

For some reason, the up b hit/pk thunder 2 itself has low priority for how long it takes

 

[<Fruity>]

Which is the best way to perform djc combos with Ness? pressing C button twice or joystick up+C?

 

[asianaussie]

slide from right-C to down-C to A OR use the pro method of c-button and up-tap

on keyboard, do whatever the hell you want, i press the up key and the c-button

 

[firo]

Try tilting your thumb down so you hit right-c, down-c, then A. No one else does this but I find it really easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqmDxe18Pco

Also I played ness every match of apex except three games. I know atleast my matches against ballin, jaime, and sensei were recorded. Hopefully the vids will be up soon.

 

[Moonshadow]

Firo's way is good.. or you can hold the controller normally and use left c to down c, that's how i prefer to do it

 

[weedwack]

you mean right c? right c bottom c and A are in a line, allowing you to slide your thumb over all three in one swoop. Don't know why anyone would use left c.

 

[<Fruity>]

Thanks for the answers



My method is pressing C-left twice and R since I can't use C-down on emulator for some reason, but I'll try it on console.

 

[The Star King]

you mean right c? right c bottom c and A are in a line, allowing you to slide your thumb over all three in one swoop. Don't know why anyone would use left c.

Because you can put your thumb over all left c + down c + a and press them all by rolling your thumb (like Firo's method but less awkward to do, that's why nobody does yours Firo lol)

 

[KnitePhox]

rightc downc a is for melee people that like to jcshine with X, leftc downc a is for 64 players IMO. firo's way is....WTF unnatural. it reminds me of how BOMB holds the controller, as though the right wing of the 64 controller went out horizontally; just awkward

 

[Yobolight]

Can I get some fellow Ness players opinions on Nangoku's platform/ledge DJC tricks like here http://youtu.be/kSoO8SJ3WnU?t=3m48s

 

[asianaussie]

i guess you could psych people out by mixing that in with run-off aerials, but it looks like you start the rejump so early that people can actually react to it happening

 

[Yobolight]

Is it always better to sweetspot the ledge with UpB as opposed to DownB?

 

[Battlecow]

I think downb gets you there from lower and is a wee bit faster

upB with that dfense/damage-tacking tho

 

[The Star King]

DownB is way faster, and probably more often the better option. Although in some situations PK Thunder can be best.

 

[Yobolight]

I have always used downB in the past, but after viewing some Apex vids of Nangoku and Firo and they recovered at times solely due to the use of UpB on the ledge as opposed to DownB because of PKT's defensive mechanism. I guess knowing when to do each is part of what makes them so good at Ness.

 

[meowmeowrainbowkitty]

did a nangoku v firo match ever happen?

 

[clubbadubba]

I remember being told that it did not happen, sadly. I'm hoping someone lied to me though. Of course, ness dittos isn't the greatest matchup in the world so its okay.

 

[KnitePhox]

It should have happened, with it being a set and them counter picking games

 

[firo]

It didn't happen, but ness dittos are wonky and I don't think it would have been very good to watch.

 

[Cobrevolution]

i was unaware that, on peach's castle, you can sweetspot (is that what it's called when there's no ending lag after the upb?) the top platform by pk thundering into the bottom of the ramp. i didn't want to spend any time trying to recreate it or see where i had to hit. people might know about it already, i dunno, just mentioning just cuz.

 

[ballin4life]

i was unaware that, on peach's castle, you can sweetspot (is that what it's called when there's no ending lag after the upb?) the top platform by pk thundering into the bottom of the ramp. i didn't want to spend any time trying to recreate it or see where i had to hit. people might know about it already, i dunno, just mentioning just cuz.

I'm not really sure what this means. By ramp do you mean the two silver ramp thingys floating on the left and right?

 

[The Star King]

You up-b into the bottom of the triangles (that's what I call them) and you'll bounce off them into the stage

 

[Yobolight]

Fun fact: I found out on Peaches Castle when recovering with Ness if you angle your recovery into the bottom of the triangle blocks that you will land on the stage (either the bridge or that moving stone thingy) with no ending lag.

Posted this a while back. Yeah it helps, but the angle is kinda precise.

IMO even with this, Peaches Castle isn't as good as DL or Congo once your opponent has figured out your gimmicks here.

 

[ballin4life]

i haven't tried ness on congo - is he good there?

 

[Yobolight]

i haven't tried ness on congo - is he good there?

I think it is Ness's best map other than dream land.

The raised platforms on the side are great for comboing a tech chase into a weak nair -> dair spike and the rotating ones allow you to do alot of fancy strings and tech chases. All these platforms are great cause they help with not getting thrown -> edgeguarded.

The stage actually allows the most options for Ness's recovery (albiet all of them are bad), but if you mix them up you can throw off your opponent because you can sweet spot ledge (usually the best), shark under stage come up at opponent or rotating platforms (drop through or not), aim at raised side platforms and fall through or not, slide on stage, and of course the barrel. These are of course in addition to the mind games that exist on every other stage like delaying the arch of PK2 in order to get better positioning and stuff like that.

A drawback is that the slopes on the main stage can screw with a lot of Ness's already poor hitboxes.

 

[asianaussie]

i like ness on peach's

i mean, it's not like you were gonna recover anyway

 

[Yobolight]

Yep it doesn't change the fact that Ness can't recover, but Ness kills better on Congo because structure of the stage. Let me put it this way, from my experience as a Ness player every chance you touch your opponent you got to be killing or setting up for kill.

On Peaches Castle it isn't possible for Ness to due this from any part of the map due to the triangles and the large moving platform. The stage forces a lot of resets and resets are bad for Ness because it often takes one throw to kill him.

Congo puts things on much more even ground. I can kill you from any part of the stage you can kill me from any part of the stage, at which point Ness simply has to out play his opponents once per stock instead of multiple times per stock.

There are matchups, such as Pikachu, where I feel that Ness is stronger on Peaches Castle than Congo, but generally I think Congo is Ness's better map.

 

[The Star King]

Congo actually gives Ness a pretty good recovery option if he's close enough to do it (jump through bottom of the stage and uair)

Peach's Castle is a great Ness stage

 

[Yobolight]

.Explains.

 

[Cobrevolution]

yep, didn't know that had been posted. i'm not a ness player.

they look like skate ramps. bob burnquist for a hidden character in ssb4. leggo