Ness 90% combo

[Xebenkeck]

So this was inspired by two things, first by EB360's find of the FS to jab lock he found months ago, the second thing was this find on the Shiek boards, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234716

So basically this combines EB360's find with the basics of the shiek find. Some question if shieks is a true infinate/combo because it seems you can stand b4 the bair hits, but ness still has a form of DJC to help him get into the lock faster, thus it should be true.

Here is a video of me performing it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5011VgQEU

It is utilt, FS, DownB, Jab Lock, Dtilt lock, tipper Fsmash. for it to work characters have to have a certain range of damage. Here it is for the chars.

0-8% He is strangly one of the easiest people to get it on.
7-10% and 14-17% ,at 14% damage the tumble animation initiates which adds more hitstun, so you can do it easier.
4-10%
10-15%
Doesn't work at all slides to far from the wind of PSI Magnet
14-18%
10-14%
0-7%
0-11%
N/A she can float away and shes to light and floaty, the utilt pushes her to far away
ROB has a different type of set up. ROB has a weird effect when you FS so this is different then the rest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vZ769_605c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU_guFz51T4
I add as i test more. Also this is strictly for the utilt SET-UP, to my knowledge utilt to FS isn't a true combo, but it would take ridiculous reflexs to counter it every -time. There are other set-up move for the FS like Dair, and maybe the yo-yo.

Notes:
-The fsmash will work because when you get Footstooled the only thing you can do is stand up, you have to charge it a little, or else you'll miss becuase your opponent will still have Invincibility frames from standing up. But feel free to finish it off with whatever you choose, personally i think a tipper Fsmash is the best, but maybe you want to use something else like a upsmash, or a SH aerial.
-The closer you are to your opponent during the jab lock the better, for whatever reason if you are closer to them you can get more hits in.
-For ones requiring 4% or less start damage, a FF Fair and dtilt are good set-ups for the utilt.


Like i say in the vid it isn't very practical, not likly to be used in a real match, but if you can pull it off its an easy 90%ish combo, depending where you are on stage.

And Sakurai truely hates Ness because he gave him that wind effect on his DownB, it will screw you up a few times when you try this because it'll push them to far away for the jab, but when you get the hang of it, it isn't much of an issue. In all about 15minutes of practise is what it takes to get it consistantly.

 

[goodkid]

Hmm looks promising, but how do you do the jab lock? What position does the opponent have to be in & what %s? if any?

 

[PMKNG]

That's really cool, but if its only applicable at those %'s, i can never see myself being able to do it even if I perfected the motions.

Interesting that you used the shiekboard find to look into this. I'm sure its applicable to other characters, maybe at difference %'s too. I'm realllly too lazy especially since my wii is in my living room to test around with this.

also; someone would have to test this to see if a person can DI out of the utilt and not get footstooled

 

[Xebenkeck]

Thats is why it only works at really low percents, because otherwise they can DI away from the footstool. I'll start to try it on other characters too, and find when it works on them, like the sheik one it probably doesn't work on fast fallers or something weird like that, so i'll try to see who it works on.

Also to goodkid, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIP7QY0anuw , this is the jab lock

 

[Uffe]

Ugh. I remember Earthbound360 set those up on me a couple of times. I remember escaping one because it was lag-fi, too. But still. I have one that pretty much situational but possible. I only did it once, though. :/ Anyway, jab locks are hard to pull off for me.

 

[PMKNG]

I just tried it out a bit, uffe you're not the only one. I can't jab lock for crap. However I was able to set up the situation a few times. I had to stop though cause my fingers starting feeling weird after trying it so much


anyways, snake you can do it on from 10%-18%, the latter, im sure DI can change it. 15% i couldnt do it at all for some odd reason.
Dk is too tall, i couldnt put it off.
Pikachu you can start around 4%, but thats when my fingers starting hurting so i stopped, didnt go to check how long you could.

and for whatever reason, the cpu on training mode at least will get up instantly with snake. It's rather annoying cause i had it perfect, and occasionally snake would get up almost instantly. oh, and when I was doing it against snake i kept reversing the move. I kept facing the opposite direction, idk. gotta practice my tech skill for this type of thing x.x

 

[Uffe]

This is the one I've done like once. If anybody else wants to try it, go ahead.

Double nair > dair > double uair - 60%

60% is just an estimate. A video would do better, but I can't play Brawl.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I started testing it in training mode to but that starts to taint it a little. I started practising in a real match after so to take stale moves etc. into account. But ya thanks for testing it on those 3, i can't test DI either because i don't have anyone else who would help me test, not even a sibling.

 

[PMKNG]

true, i just got done playing a friend otherwise i would test some other characters, idk how you can do it for more than 15 mins cause my fingers start feeling weiiird.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I can play video games for hours straight

 

[PMKNG]

Nono i just meant that doing that combo straight for 15 mins (or in my case attempting) felt weird.

also, i hope that for snake you didn't end it at 15% cause of what i said caause what i meant was, i could do it to like 18%, but at 15%, i couldn't do it for crap, so idk i guess its fine to leave it at 15%

 

[Xebenkeck]

there is another setup other than utilt, a dair suffices aswell,but its alot harder to get the footstool. Also it doesn't work on peach or luigi. Peach can just float to avoid it, and luigi, you can Fs him but the Down B and luigis no friction shoes makes him slide to far away.

 

[Brinzy]

Is utilt -> footstool a true combo?

 

[:mad:]

Is utilt -> footstool a true combo?

As far as I know, it's not.
They have a pretty large window to DI out, and Ness doesn't have the best DJ for a footstool...

It seems possible if you point behind you and say 'Hey, look. A distraction.'
If they look, it's a 100% combo.

 

[SuSa]

When you are footstooled you can roll. However when you are locked by a move that has locking properties at the correct time after a footstool - you are forced to get up.

(I need to check what dictates a locking property.... Snake supposedly cannot Jab Lock, yet I've forced getups with my Jab and Jab locked a few characters for a few jabs.....)


EDIT @ Straked

This doesn't seem viable at all. I'm almost certain MK can uair out of it to prevent a footstool. Utilt after low %'s hit's to far to footstool. You can DI the utilt, then drift away (even if its a small amount) during the footstool, when when he uses the PSI Magnet you're only a small SDI away from freedom. This is assuming utilt>footstool is actually guarenteed.

 

[:mad:]

Anyone with a fast Nair can break out regardless of DI.
Characters like Marth, Bowser, and Mario can Up-B out of it.

If this game had some reasonable amount of hitsun and little time to DI it...

 

[Xebenkeck]

I never said utilt is the only way to get them into it, a Dair on the ground at 0% also suffices, its just that the utilt puts them in the easiest situation to footstool. Besides even it the beggining isn't true i doubt a players first reaction when they get utilt is OMG must up B, if thas the case i'd just shield a punish them.

SuSu I know it isn't really viable, simply because Ness has a hard time landing utilt in the first place. I even said in the video it isn't very practical. None the less it is still something to keep in mind.

 

[PMKNG]

hmm I went ahead and tested some other chars while testing out a friends gc controller.

link 10-14%
ness 0-7%
lucas 0-11%

lol ness and lucas are both tricky to do it to, the cpu ness tends to "DI" automatically and fall down and to the right and left.


and yea, i don't see this ever being used in a real match or anything, but i still gotta love the way the combo is done.

downb to push the opponent slightly is beautiful to me

 

[Gaussis]

I'm wondering how well this works with dair. Dair is much easier to pull off than utilt and can be swapped for Ω at the right percentages. If this works, we may have stumbled onto something interesting. Can someone check through frame data?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Yo-yo > footstool?

 

[Xebenkeck]

One of the keys though is the footstool has to be pretty close to the ground, so it can work even without an attack, if you intercept someones Short hop.

PMKNG- i've experienced the characters Di away too, you must jump straight at them and footstool, i takes a bit to learn to telegraph them but they can't really go that far, jump to there general area. Also i found the more you think about the steps the easier it becomes, like think " utilt,-jump to them, jump again when im over there head, press down b.

Also with the dair setup it is alot harder to FS for whatever reason the timing is a lot harder. I've also found that with some characters you have to pivot DownB so Ness is facing them for the jab Bowser being one of them

 

[PMKNG]

Yea, for snake and link I almost always had to reverse down B.

I only noticed it with ness and lucas though, ness floated away waaay too far sometimes, with human input im guessing it would be impossible to pull it off?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Well if it isn't possible i'm pretty sure this is a for real combo and its against ROB. ROB has very weird FS properties, as seen by the infinate ZSS has on him. Also this shows that a Dair can set up a FS too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vZ769_605c

There are two varients it works with Fair to.

 

[PMKNG]

It seems like theres a lot of time the Rob couldve DI'D out of the footstool (if it were a human player) idk
still a pretty combo nonetheless lol

 

[Xebenkeck]

Trust me i tested that for hours, i'm sure he can't do anything but DI left or Right, either way Ness has enough aerial movement to follow him. Plus i'm pretty sure not 100% but about 80% sure ROB is still in hitstun when i FS him. Dair has a crap load of Hitstun in terms of what this game has to offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU_guFz51T4 This is the varient way to do it.

As you cann see ROB DI,s pretty hard to the right, but i still hit him.

 

[DFEAR]

if you can get out of a ice climbers down grab> nana fair> ice lock then u can sdi this the same way :\

but when in this "lock" the way it works with the ice climbers lock is once the ice doesnt work the opponent, through the games mechanics forces it up normally providing a huge opening for any sort of attack whether its the same setup or w.e ya know perhaps another chain grab in the ice climbers case and perhaps a pkt2 for u?. just saying this isnt 100%. but good **** though :3 i like

 

[xoxokev]

interesting... known about the footstool > psiM > jab lock ever since masky's vid, but never thought of initiating it with utilt

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Xebenkeck]

lol thank you someone who remembers, but yeah i don't think this would work OP, did you test... DI after being utilted? also you can fair someone after they've been footstooled if you time it properly since certain hitboxes of fair can jab lock

Look at the ROB variation then, i'm sure that one works(only on him), i use a fair and bair in that one. Also DI the utilt i can't test, i don't have someone to help me, but even if some chars can get away i'm sure that not everyone can. O and it works on MK at 0%, i did it a couple times last night, the time between the utilt and FS is very short, so un;ess someone has ridiculous reaction time, i can see someone landing it.

O and sorry about not giving you the credit i thought EB360 found it.

 

[FireKirby7]

It works, I just tried it :D

The hardest part is nair/bair/fairing the stumbled opponent. Sometimes I full footstool jump, sometimes I short footstool jump.

I dont know if you can airdodge or roll out of it, but just hope your opponent is slow.

 

[Brinzy]

This is probably decent to catch an opponent off guard, but the fact that it has so much time in between is kinda iffy. If it were like two frames, I wouldn't be too concerned, but as far as the utilt one goes... eh...

As for general footstools, at least it opens them to an aerial from Ness, but I dunno how much that matters.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Meh even if they don't work 100% of the time, they are still there to know about

 

[Earthbound360]

Mmmmm yeah I dint find the PSIM to cancel the footstool height, but i did work the jab lock to dtilt lock to bat thingy. Actually I did but i thought it was pointless until Masky posted a video lol.

Problem here may be smash DI. It can move u around quite a bit when ur jab locked. U can still make a good amount off of it by going into the dtilt lock early since theres little DI in that. And it still leads to bat.

 

[kennypu]

the rob one isn't a true combo unless there is a specific percentage(i tested at 0 and 4%), or if I'm footstooling too slow. look at my thread for specifics

 

[Eagleye893]

i can see this stuff being really useful, but i suck at footstooling... TIME TO PRACTICE MORE!!! (head slams into keyboard as i fall asleep from exhaustion)

 

[smash64]

Ness in unrated

 

[kennypu]

Ness in underrated

fixed :3. he has a rating, lolol. instead of the whole routine until the jab lock, it would be easier and more useful to do half of it (eg. dtilt->utlit->usmash). that can rack up some damage too :3

 

[Drik Khaail]

Ooh, neat combo is neat. Certainly would be nice to pull off, but I doubt I could do that very well.

 

[smash64]

practice makes perfect

 

[AvariceX]

Ooh, neat combo is neat. Certainly would be nice to pull off, but I doubt I could do that very well.

This is what I thought about a lot of SFIV combos (except I thought some would be impossible for me to pull off). Now I've finished nearly every trial and use the combos consistently in real matches (I don't even use a stick either lol).

What smash64 says is true. Nothing beats practice.